First Curve/First Test - 26

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Oops - I meant to say 60. Proofread, Shelly, proofread. ohmygod_smile Thanks for correcting me.

And I'm up for doing testing all night if that's what you told me to do.
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Awww....hugs to you. We're almost past the hump here. Deep breath. You're doing a wonderful job and by testing today, you've been able to keep Frodo safe!

You had mentioned the human meter versus the AlphaTrak. I won't overwhelm you with the details right now, but to give you an idea of the difference: AlphaTrak (AT) meters read higher than human meters. For example, on a human meter, we don't want the kitty to fall below 50. That's our "take action" number. For the AlphaTrak, we don't want the kitty to fall below about 68. That's the "take action" number for people who use an AT.
 
Hugs back. What a day. So glad you are able to be here. And thanks for the continued education. I really dug into the information on this site several weeks back but much if it is so technical that I absorb it for a few days -- and then it vanishes from my brain.

And what are "The Falls"?
 
I'm glad I was here, too. I teach at a college and get home early on Wednesdays. Yay for that schedule!

I was almost scared away from the site when I first joined. There were so many "rules" and technical aspects to it. I'm pretty good with a computer, but it was so overwhelming to get set up here on top of dealing with the diabetes diagnosis.

By the way - I should introduce myself. I'm Shelly, and my cat's name is Jersey. We joined in January although I waited a while to start posting. Jersey started on Humulin-N and was then switched to Lantus after I read about the various insulins here. She was on Lantus for about two months and is now at "the Falls" - or in remission. I'm not sure where that nickname came from, but kitties at the Falls are those who are now diet-controlled diabetics.

Ask all of the questions you have. We all remember what it's like first starting out. Tons of questions, emotions, and a little bit of despair, too.
 
New reading - 58.
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Okay, so this is the high-carb stuff wearing off in combination with nadir (the natural low point in the cycle). How about trying a couple of teaspoons of his regular Fancy Feast with a drop of honey mixed in?

Retest in about 30 minutes.
 
We're not in any danger, and the honey may not even be necessary, but I'd like to see him just a tad bit higher. The honey may give him that little boost, and the regular food may help him "surf" at that higher number.

10:00 a.m. EST - Shot 1u Lantus
12:00 p.m. EST (+2) - 26
12:56 p.m EST (+3) - 36
1:30 p.m. EST (+3.5) - 47
2:00 p.m. EST (+4) - 60
2:20 p.m. EST (+4.25) - 94
3:00 p.m. EST (+5) - 96
3:45 p.m. EST (+5.75) - 90
4:30 p.m. EST (+6.5) - 58
 
Checking back in - looks like you've hit the safety zone - whew! Thanks for jumping in Shelly!! LL teamwork for the win!!
 
My name is Ann Meade. It's a double name. I'm a marketing consultant and thankfully, work from home.
The 58 did scare me. I've prepared the food and he has take a few bites and then walked away. That is how he usually eats. I'm hoping he marches back to the bowl soon.

Did someone ever give you an orientation of the site over the phone? It is a lot to digest.
 
It's okay right now if he doesn't want to eat. That 58 is a safe number. I just like to err on the side of caution and give us a little padding (for your sake as well as his). If he doesn't want to eat, just try to recheck in about 20 to 30 minutes.
 
Nice to officially "meet" you, Ann Meade! :-D

Did someone ever give you an orientation of the site over the phone? It is a lot to digest.
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I don't know. One of the rules of the site is that we give all dosing advice/diabetes management advice on the discussion boards where everyone can see them. I don't know why it wouldn't be okay to have an off-site conversation about how the FDMB site works, but let's let others chime in on that one.
 
Ok. Will do.
And I will need to spend more time reviewing rules, etc. Again, I read a bunch on this site at the beginning about diabetes and the meters -- but admittedly, I didn't read about rules or some of the other technical aspects.
 
My advice - take it slow. Don't try to read everything at once. You'll end up pulling all of your hair out. I just tried to learn a little each day. And don't worry about the "rules" at this point. Probably what was most important to me in the beginning was home testing; learning when to test was huge. Getting the spreadsheet set up was also important. That way, I could record my numbers where others could see them. That allowed them to help me find the perfect dose for Jersey. (I have step-by-step instructions for how to set up the spreadsheet when you have a chance to breathe and if you need them.)

Don't worry about the other stuff right now - like all of the icons, signature info, etc. You'll pick that up along the way.

My paws are crossed that Frodo is in remission. Then you won't have to learn all the technical aspects of the site. If he is in remission, it may be that his numbers will regularly test in the 50s - like he's at right now.
 
Beautiful! :-D How much did Frodo eat of the FF/drop of honey combo? Just a few bites? I'm guessing were seeing a bit of a spike from that food in the 77. I wouldn't feed any more high-carb food/honey at this point. Let's wait and see how it goes.

We're most likely past the low point of the cycle, which is 5 to 7 hours after the shot for most cats, so it should be safe to wait for about an hour to test again. If you're nervous, though, you can always test sooner than that.

10:00 a.m. EST - Shot 1u Lantus
12:00 p.m. EST (+2) - 26
12:56 p.m EST (+3) - 36
1:30 p.m. EST (+3.5) - 47
2:00 p.m. EST (+4) - 60
2:20 p.m. EST (+4.25) - 94
3:00 p.m. EST (+5) - 96
3:45 p.m. EST (+5.75) - 90
4:30 p.m. EST (+6.5) - 58
5:00 p.m. EST (+7) - 77
 
He only ate a few bites but I'll pick it up. It was such a small amount that I didn't think it would even have an impact.
And I will absolutely take you advice about taking the site slow. And yes, fingers crossed he is in remission.
 
That 77 might be a mostly natural rise, then. If so, that's great information to know. When we put together all of the numbers (like I've been doing in the recaps), they paint a picture for us of what a kitty likes to do with a Lantus cycle. That can be helpful in determining a dose and figuring out when the best times to test will be.
 
I'm so glad you are seasoned at understanding the picture that this is painting. Even after getting a recap of insulin and how it works today from the vet -- I'm still feeling a bit lost. Hand holding for me at this stage is exactly what I need. Again, thank you. When will I test again?
 
You're very welcome, but believe me - there are many other people here who are much more experienced than I am. I can help with the basics and can help out in a crisis - although I have a tendency to overdo both the testing and the carbs, especially when it comes to other people's kitties. I would much rather test and carb too much than not enough.

I actually don't offer dosing advice much unless it's clear that a kitty is getting too much insulin. In that case, I'll tell them not to give the same dose - just like I'll tell you not to give 1 unit again. Then I'll flag someone down with more experience to help figure out what the new dose should be. It's a team effort here, and I try to help where I can while still respecting the limits to my knowledge.

It's been about 30 minutes from your last test, right? I would say test about 45 minutes to an hour after your last test (or about 15 to 30 minutes from now). If it makes you feel better to test more often, it's certainly okay to do that.

Are you using Neosporin ointment on Frodo's ears?
 
Yes. Sporin on the ears -- but our's doesn't have no pain feature. I'll look for that.
Well, this team effort is much appreciated as someone who is newly on the diabetic road.
Another test soon.
 
Yep - definitely get the Neosporin ointment with pain relief. I couldn't ever get the hang of ear testing, unfortunately, so I tested Jersey's paw. I would put just a tiny bit on her paw before the poke to help the blood bead up and then put a little on her paw afterwards to help take the sting out.

Your husband is going to have a heck of a shopping list, isn't he? ;-)
 
Woo hoo! I think you're most likely "out of the woods" today. Maybe check again in another hour or hour and a half just to be safe? (Did I mention I have a tendency to test a lot? ;-) )

10:00 a.m. EST - Shot 1u Lantus
12:00 p.m. EST (+2) - 26
12:56 p.m EST (+3) - 36
1:30 p.m. EST (+3.5) - 47
2:00 p.m. EST (+4) - 60
2:20 p.m. EST (+4.25) - 94
3:00 p.m. EST (+5) - 96
3:45 p.m. EST (+5.75) - 90
4:30 p.m. EST (+6.5) - 58
5:00 p.m. EST (+7) - 77
5:45 p.m. EST (+7.75) - 90
 
I'd rather know at this stage of the game and give you a clear picture. Whatever it takes. And he is totally getting used to it. He didn't run for the bed after the six or so test. He knows when he is getting picked up for test and complies. He is such a great cat. My wonderful, loving, bedtime cuddle buddy.

Tell me again how the testing and the feeding should go for the rest of the night -- with dinner in the mix?

I'll have to reread your posts about what you belief the game plan should be for tomorrow and moving forward.
 
I'm glad you asked about tonight - I was going to mention it. What do you think you would like to do? Would you like to try your vet's advice and not give any insulin for a few days, or are you still going to give insulin if the numbers show it's necessary? What's your schedule like? You're doing a great job getting tests. Will you be able to get some spot checks in between the shots? That will change what we suggest. If you can't be home to monitor/test, we'll definitely be more conservative than if you can be around.

I'm going to assume that you will be continuing with the insulin and that you still want to keep your shot times at 10:00 a.m. and 10:00 p.m.:

Don't give any food between 8:00 p.m. and 10:00 p.m. tonight (assuming, of course, that Frodo's numbers are still in the safe range).
Test at 10:00 p.m. tonight.
Feed. (This will be his normal dinnertime, right?)
Give insulin (again, this depends on your preference and what the pre-shot test shows).

If you want to see how Frodo does without insulin for a few days, you're going to have a lot more flexibility in what you do. Don't feed him two hours before dinner (again assuming that his numbers are in the safe range) and that can be whenever you want it to be. Right before you give him dinner, get a test in. Then, two or three hours after dinner, grab another test. Compare the before-dinner and after-dinner tests. Did his numbers come down? If so, that's a sign that his pancreas is working.

If you decide you're going to continue with the insulin, I'll flag down one of our most experienced users to help you determine a dose and a no-shot level.
 
I think we are not going to give a shot tonight. I have to jump on a conference call and then will reread your instructions for food. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
 
No need to thank me - I'm glad I could help.

You've had an extremely stressful day, so I understand about skipping tonight's shot. Let's keep using this thread tonight. Tomorrow, how about starting a new thread (topic)? This one is getting pretty long now, and we don't want to miss any new posts that you might make. Tomorrow, you can just click on the "new topic" button at the top of this page and put the date, Frodo's name, & a glucose reading (if you have one) in the subject line. Include any other info/questions you have for us.

For example: 9/11 Frodo AMBG 207 Do we give insulin?

(By the way, AMBG stands for AM (morning) Blood Glucose. That's the term we use when we haven't given insulin yet. AMPS stands for AM (morning) Pre-Shot, meaning that we've given insulin. Those are some of the little "rules" that you don't need to worry about learning right now. You'll pick them up as you go.)

I'll keep watching for any updates you have tonight; I think the next test should be coming up pretty soon. I'll probably sign off around 9:00 EST, but lots of people are on the board throughout the evening. If you get into an emergency situation, go back to your very first post in this thread and click on the 911 icon above the subject line. That will bring attention to your post quickly. Make sure you click on the 911 in your very first post on the first page, though. Otherwise, people won't be able to see it until they open up the thread.
 
Hi Ann Meade! Shelly asked me to come and check in on you and frodo. I have a frodo too - long haired orange boy, but not diabetic.

I think your vet is right about skipping the Lantus for right now. Definitely tonight, probably tomorrow and possibly longer. 26 is very low, dangerously so. It sounds like you didn't notice any symptoms, so that's good. We are all laypeople and volunteers, but i am experienced with Lantus and I would not shoot anything for now. It's possible Frodo's numbers will rise, because his body may react to the low numbers by going high. That's a normal response and those numbers can last 3 days before they come down again.

Not sure if that makes sense, but here is an explanation about bouncing:

BOUNCING

Here is an example of a bounce from someone's recent condo:

you can spot a bounce this way (this only took me 6 months to learn and a bunch of people explaining it! i'm a slow learner!)

yesterday morning you had a 215 - then it went 235, 271, 270, and then 308 this morning - basically straight up. no curve. and then look backwards in the ss and the night before was that sweet little 148 12 hours earlier.

if you imagine that night-time cycle, starting at 148, kitty probably went down in a nice little curve, hitting something under 100 mid-cycle. that lower-than-usual number would've shocked her body. they get accustomed to whatever range they're in, and any sudden dip lower can set this off.

"HELLO WE"VE GOT A 911 HERE- KITTY'S GOING DOWN!" yells Mr. Liver. Fortunately, mr liver has a storehouse of counter-regulatory hormones and stored sugar (in case kitty needs a little nommy sweets in the middle of the night) and when Kitty gets into a range of numbers lower than usual, Mr. Liver lets loose with the sugar and the hormones and sends Kitty on a rocket to the moon. this is the cat's body's protective mechanism to keep the cat from becoming hypoglycemic. unfortunately, mr liver doesn't seem to know that anything above 40ish isn't a crisis and it will do this regardless of the range of numbers, even at 200 if the cat has become accustomed to 400.

A second cause of a bounce is if a cat drops very quickly. 100 points in an hour, for example, regardless of the range the BG number is in, can cause a bounce as well.

So, what to do now? don't increase the dose because of these higher numbers. once this bounce clears, which can take up to 3 days of high numbers if mr liver is super-active, then if you had increased the dose, it would be too high. you are entering the phase of treatment that we say requires "Patience Pants." when you think you're seeing a bounce, you have to wait it out, then you can see what the dose really does. You will know the bounce has cleared when you start seeing numbers you were seeing before - like that 148 again.

edited for clarity.
Last edited by julie & punkin (ga) on Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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In your case, let's hold off on any insulin at all for now. Go ahead and keep checking him every hour for the next few hours. If he stays over 50, you can just give him regular low carb canned food. I think in an earlier post you said you were feeding Fancy Feast pates - that's great. Just keep giving him those. At this point, I'd probably hold off on the dry food.

If he goes below 50 again, please immediately give him some gravy, karo, honey and retest in 20-30 minutes. Someone gave you the directions for that earlier.

I'm headed out but will check on you tomorrow. In the meantime, again, withhold any insulin shot. keep testing to make sure he's not dropping back down. Lantus hypo events can last as long as 18 hours, so he's not completely out of the woods yet. You've done a fantastic job of keeping your cool and handling things, even if it was because you didn't know how serious it was. sometimes ignorance is bliss. :-D in any case, well done. keep it up. Others will be watching for you as well.
 
hmmm, rereading, i'm not sure if my point about bouncing is clear. he may develop high numbers from the hypo, but you would NOT restart insulin at this point, even if he's high for the next 3 days. As his body calms down, the bounce numbers (if they happen) will clear out and come down. So for now, just assume you are not going to restart insulin until someone experienced tells you it's safe to go ahead.
 
After very low numbers or hypo episodes, it is common for the cat to be much more sensitive to insulin's effects and need an even lower dose.

Unless he is way over 200 mg/dL at pre-shot (tomorrow), I wouldn't even consider a shot. And if he is, maybe only 0.25 units, which you eyeball as no syringes measure that finely. And only if you'll be home to monitor him and intervene if needed.
 
How are you guys doin' now? I'm really glad Julie was able to stop by. She was one of the people who helped me tremendously with Jersey when we were on insulin.
 
Yay! :-D

10:00 a.m. EST - Shot 1u Lantus
12:00 p.m. EST (+2) - 26
12:56 p.m EST (+3) - 36
1:30 p.m. EST (+3.5) - 47
2:00 p.m. EST (+4) - 60
2:20 p.m. EST (+4.25) - 94
3:00 p.m. EST (+5) - 96
3:45 p.m. EST (+5.75) - 90
4:30 p.m. EST (+6.5) - 58
5:00 p.m. EST (+7) - 77
5:45 p.m. EST (+7.75) - 90
7:15 p.m. EST (+9.25) - 121
 
Many more thanks are in order. I read the recent posts and need to reread ...and reread. And glad to see there is another Frodo as a member of the support network! That's great.

Our Frodo looks good. And again, is now quite the trooper for the tests. I need to reread posts about when exactly I should feed him-- AND we are NOT giving him insulin tonight. And pretty doubtful for tomorrow. But we want to take this one step at a time with your support.
 
As for DINNER - we usually feed him at 9:00 -- and then we would give shot at 10pm.
So HELP with what times we do the remaining tests tonight?
 
i would continue to test hourly until you go to bed, at least 12 hrs after the shot this morning.

i would not shoot any insulin tonight, no matter how high high numbers go.

as far as food, small meals around the clock. if he's a grazer, that makes it easy. leave plenty of low carb canned food out when you go to sleep. better to have too much food available than not enough.

if at all possible, i'd ditch the dry food at this point. if you can manage him without giving dry food it's much better. a lot of kitties come out of remission because they get dry food and now that he's over 50, as long as he stays there, he is safe.

Sometimes a hypo event will shock the pancreas back into putting out insulin. giving small meals around the clock (or letting him graze as he wants) now will help him if his pancreas is sputtering back to life.

i'm off now, but will look in on you tomorrow.
 
I had a wonderful response written, went to post it, and saw that Julie had beaten me to it and already posted. That woman is on top of it! :lol:

Glad she was able to answer your questions!
 
Lookin' good. Thank you so much for posting the updates. I'll be signing off here in another hour or so, but there should be others to help if you run into any uh-ohs. I don't think you will, though. You did an awesome job today. I know it was extremely stressful, but you handled it like a pro. Make sure you give Frodo lots of hugs and kisses tonight. He was such a good boy today. cat_pet_icon

10:00 a.m. EST - Shot 1u Lantus
12:00 p.m. EST (+2) - 26
12:56 p.m EST (+3) - 36
1:30 p.m. EST (+3.5) - 47
2:00 p.m. EST (+4) - 60
2:20 p.m. EST (+4.25) - 94
3:00 p.m. EST (+5) - 96
3:45 p.m. EST (+5.75) - 90
4:30 p.m. EST (+6.5) - 58
5:00 p.m. EST (+7) - 77
5:45 p.m. EST (+7.75) - 90
7:15 p.m. EST (+9.25) - 121
8:15 p.m. EST (+10.25) - 134
 
Couldn't have done it without you. Great to hold hands!
And the recaps are great.
And Frodo is getting lots of lovin'!!
 
Yay for lovin'. I'm guessing he's even forgiven you for all of that poking today. ;-)

I'm signing off now, but I'll check back in tomorrow to see how things are going.

Hope you can get some sleep tonight. I know it's been an emotionally draining day for you. :YMHUG:

EDIT: Darn that cross-posting. You're very welcome. I'm so glad you found FDMB and that we were able to help you today!
 
New Reading at 9:15. See below.

10:00 a.m. EST - Shot 1u Lantus
12:00 p.m. EST (+2) - 26
12:56 p.m EST (+3) - 36
1:30 p.m. EST (+3.5) - 47
2:00 p.m. EST (+4) - 60
2:20 p.m. EST (+4.25) - 94
3:00 p.m. EST (+5) - 96
3:45 p.m. EST (+5.75) - 90
4:30 p.m. EST (+6.5) - 58
5:00 p.m. EST (+7) - 77
5:45 p.m. EST (+7.75) - 90
7:15 p.m. EST (+9.25) - 121
8:15 p.m. EST (+10.25) - 134
9:15 p.m. EST (+11.25) - 119
 
You make me smile. A very big smile. Thank you.
One more test at 10:15. And then I am taking a long hot bath and hitting the hay!
 
I have been following your condo, since I got home from work yesterday. I would hold off on the insulin this morning.
Especially, since he got all that dry food and his numbers are not bad. The effects on BGs from dry food can take a day to wear off, so let's just see how he does on 100% canned.
 
Just checking in on you again this morning before I have to go to work. ;-) I'm glad Julie, Dyana, and BJ were able to share their thoughts on giving more insulin (with the consensus being not to give insulin).

Great job testing last night, and nice numbers for Frodo. Hope all is well this morning!

Shelly

10:00 a.m. EST - Shot 1u Lantus
12:00 p.m. EST (+2) - 26
12:56 p.m EST (+3) - 36
1:30 p.m. EST (+3.5) - 47
2:00 p.m. EST (+4) - 60
2:20 p.m. EST (+4.25) - 94
3:00 p.m. EST (+5) - 96
3:45 p.m. EST (+5.75) - 90
4:30 p.m. EST (+6.5) - 58
5:00 p.m. EST (+7) - 77
5:45 p.m. EST (+7.75) - 90
7:15 p.m. EST (+9.25) - 121
8:15 p.m. EST (+10.25) - 134
9:15 p.m. EST (+11.25) - 119
10:15 p.m. EST (+12.25) - 96
 
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