first BG curve

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doombuggy

doombuggy

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I bought a relion micro meter on Sunday at Wal-mart and then bought the strips on Tuesday (they are kept at the pharmacy & it was closed for the holiday on Sunday). I tried it out on Cedric later in the evening on Tuesday night and got a reading of 320. His reading at the vet last Friday was 375. Mind you, this reading of 320 was after the insulin injection. I have also changed his type of dry food (1/4 2x daily) to Blue Wilderness & also his canned from Fancy Feast to Wilderness (3 oz per day). He's 17 lbs. Wednesday am I took his BG before the injection and got 285. I tried it Wed night, but could get no blood from him - didn't warm the ear enough. This monring I stayed home from work to do his curve. I think he's a bit upset that I have been poking and making a mess of his ears. The results:
6:45am 287 then I injected the insulin
8:45 266
10:45 281
12:45 308
2:45 379
4:45 308

I called the vet earlier and talked to my favorite vet tech, Lisa, who loves Cedric & told her I thought he was getting upset and tht the numbers were reflecting that. I'll fax them the info tomorrow am - I have decided to skip going to the shuttle launch (I am about 30 miles away and we have a client there) b/c I am worried about him. Cedric will stay at the vet later next week while I am away, and maybe the best bet is for them to do another fructosimine test or whatever it's called to review the levels over time. Maybe they will get better results that way. He's getting a dental while he is there too, so my pcketbook will be hurtin!

Do you think I am on the right trail with these thoughts - that he was getting upset today and that is why his readings were going up? confused_cat
 
The biggest problem I see is that you're feeding dry food...dry food is going to keep his numbers high. Since you're just starting out with insulin, now would be a very good time to get rid of the dry completely. Blood Glucose numbers often drop 100-200 points just by switching to a completely wet diet (the canned food you're feeding is great--grain free is low carb and the way to go). Otherwise you're going to keep going up and up with the insulin dose, and it's going to be near impossible to regulate him. And then eventually you'll get frustrated that he's not regulated and you'll have to ditch it anyway when it will be far more difficult to get him off it because of a higher insulin dose.

The other thing that could be raising his BG is him needing a dental. Bandit did not become regulated until after he had his dental because of his gums.
 
Since dropping the dry food will drastically change the need for insulin, you will need to make sure that you are checking his BG closely. You will also need to be ready in the event of a hypo so read all the information posted and have something like Karo syrup ready along with a high carb food. When Bo had his seizure, there was no warning. He just went right to the seizure. We were ready though thanks to the people on this board. After he stopped seizing, I put Karo syrup on his gums with a liquid medicine dispenser. Then I followed with a pouch of high carb food with gravy that he used to love. As he was eating, i got his carrier ready and called the emergency vet. We went to the emergency vet with karo syrup and more food in the car. I think that when I changed from mostly dry food to all wet, that dropped his BG a lot. PLus, we had been giving higher doses of insulin according to the vet's recommendations and once the shed filled, his need dropped even lower. After that, I was so afraid to leave him alone without food that I bought timer feeders so that he could have some food while I was gone. So do change the food to wet and monitor closely. I think Bo is now diet controlled and is off the juice now because we changed to wet food. I think the smaller meals 4 times a day also helped get him off insulin. Hopefully your cat will be OTJ soon too!
 
Ok, I spent the whole day feeling like crap. I have taken great care of this cat over the 5 years I have had him since I adopted him from the SPCA of Central FL. He gets good food, a nice home, regular vet visits - which include a dental when the vet wants it. I adjusted to the fact that this cat has a need to groom you. He has quite the habit of licking you, something that I had to adjust to. I give him my shirts to roll around in after I have worn them - he LOVES that. I work 7 days a week and have no life except for him. I am doing everything I can to take care of this cat since he was diagnosed a WEEK ago. The food he eats is Blue Buffalo Wilderness (I switched him a week ago) and it is a high protein low carbs formula. he gets 1/2 cup a day, plus a 3oz can of the same brand of high protein canned food. I will bring this topic up with the vet when I take Cedric in to stay with them and get his teeth cleaned. But I won't go thru another day feeling like i have to take the blame for his illness.
 
You are not to blame for his illness, not at all. Really. I have had several diabetic cats, some have gone off insulin and some haven't. My cats that have gone to the Bridge that didn't go off insulin are Tucker, Sadie and Misty. Mr. Darcy, also at the Bridge, he went off insulin. Currently Bean is off insulin and I'm transitioning Ebony to probably go off, but Kiki probably will be on it for good. Doesn't mean I'm a terrible caregiver (I hope ;-) ) So please don't beat yourself up.

This is how I would post your numbers:

AMPS 287
+2 266
+4 281
+6 308
+8 379
+10 308
And we're waiting for a preshot tonight? Do have I the number of hours correct?

First of all, the dental could be the problem, let's not worry about the food right now. Some cats can handle dry, while not ideal, I did it for Tucker when I needed to and his numbers didn't change. Some cats are carb sensitive, but I changed Kiki's food to canned only and she's still on insulin.

Let's get the dental done, don't worry about a fructosamene test, it's going to tell you what you know, numbers aren't great. After the dental, and whatever pain meds and ABs he gets, his numbers might come down. FYI - my husband loves your cat's name :)
 
Dearest doombuggy, and Mom, to sweet Cedric, who thinks he's a dog,

Darling girl, you are not to blame for Cedric being extra-sweet, okay? I want to make sure you understand this. I do not want you to feel like crap. You obviously love Cedric and he obviously loves you. There is no crap involved in this relationship. Do you understand this?

When Giz was first diagnosed, I used think many of the sugar cats here who came running for their tests and shots and ate the proper diet were Stepford Cats. Doesn't mean I didn't come to love them dearly! Just meant that wasn't what I seeing or living with Giz.

The only cat food Giz would eat was DM dry. Okay, we had a couple of initial months after her diagnosis where she actually ate DM canned food, but that didn't last long. And, trust me, I tried a lot of different canned foods!

For four years, Giz always got 1/4 cup DM dry twice a day, whether she ate it or not -- and, she usually nibbled on it day and night. I grilled chicken, steak, and pork chop for the low carb high protein diabetic diet. I just shot around the dry food. You can too. The most important thing is that Cedric eats. Period.



You know what I love most about you and Cedric, dearest doombuggy? It's that you give him the shirts you have worn and he loves rolling around in them. Makes my heart smile!

This is do-able -- for both of you. You just have to find what works for both of you. Please don't feel like crap.

Much love and been there -- and, trust me, don't do that -- kind of encouraging hugs,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, who taught me dancing is done with partners, not necessarily by protocol...
 
I can understand feeling like crap. You have done such an amazing job, from rescue to giving him a super loving and caring home. And he knows it - why else would he love your shirts? (My cats, on the other hand, like to roll on the dirty horse blankets - hmmm...) And your progress in managing his disease is excellent. Testing and knowing the importance of the numbers is a big step. You are planning a dental. You provide good food. AND YET, after a week, he is still diabetic. It feels like you've done so much that you should see more progress. But managing this disease is a process, not a race. And because every cat is different, there is no perfect answer to every question. So the advice given at the beginning is general - and then as time goes on, and details need to be fine tuned, there will be suggestions such as limit the dry food, look for underlying issues such as infection or need for a dental, review dosage and timing. These suggestions are not intended to convey any blame for your kitty's disease. Quite the opposite - because you are obviously a great kitty caregiver they are intended to help you find the little details that will make a difference to your cat. So will you be discouraged every so often? Sure - little setbacks just happen in life. But feel like crap and responsible for his illness? No - responsible for his health and great care - and proud of it!
 
Please give yourself a hug! You are doing good. I know my first week I felt like crap, needed some time to just breath. Maisey's numbers were all over the place, or it seemed so to me. It is a dance, and the steps aren't always easy to learn, and it seems the music changes to often to make sense. A rhythm does develop for both of you, keep heart.
 
I think it's the fact that his numbers are all over the page that is upsetting me. We increased his dosage on Friday night to 2 units, and I noticed that when I scooped his litter box yesterday am, it seemed more normal. I took a pre shot BG test yesterday afternoon and his reading was 379 or something pretty close to that (notebook is at home & I am at work). This suprised me, as I was expecting something in the 200 range, especially since we increased his dosage. I then gave him his injection. I checked his Bg again around 8:30 (about 3 hours later) just to see where we were going and his reading went down about 100 points. I think my concern is that I don't want him to get worse, and I feel like I am racing against time, so to speak. I was crushed this am to come down and find almost all of his water gone. :sad: Scooping his box this am was back to "lots of chunks" due to the water intake. I think I will feel better to have the vet run a fructosimine test while Cedric is staying there so we can get a better idea of where he's at, b/c this meter sure isn't giving me a warm & fuzzy!

Cedric is quite loving, although he can have a tendancy to bite is you are not paying enough attention to him. I went upstairs and laid on the floor with him in my BR last night (we moved into the townhouse I bought about 2 weeks ago and the BR is 19ft long, so I can't see the TV-which is 20"- to well from the bed!) and there is was, laying on my work shirt, playing with his favorite mouse when he decided to bite my arm. At least he's the same in that sense (LOL). I'm not sure why he likes my dirty clothes, but I would sure be happier if he learned how to use the washer and do some laundy while I am at work!

While I did not pick out his name - it was giving to him at the SPCA,as I was intending on adopting a female again and had no male names in my brain - Cedric sure fits him, as he is an entertainer. :-D
 
While it is true that the longer he runs at higher numbers the more potential for damage, treatment can not be looked at as a race. Because if you go too fast, if you don't use proper logic, you'll likely mess things up even worse. You have to be methodical about testing and dosing and food and all the rest.

The comment about the food you are feeding...on Janet's charts there are three blue buffalo foods http://binkyspage.tripod.com/dryfood.html and all are very high in carbs. The source of the carbs might be better quality than others, but they are still high in carbs. So, while you ARE doing a great job, this might be making your work more difficult.

Jen
 
Whoa, I was not implying that any of this was your fault. I also fed Bandit dry food before he was diagnosed...and I still have a lot of guilt because the vet-prescribed dry weight loss food most likely caused his diabetes. But if my vet didn't even know the problems with the food, then why would I be expected to know, or you? You do the best you can with the information you have available. I have no doubt you love Cedric with all your heart, or you wouldn't be here. You are home testing, which is the first and most important step in making him better.

The reason I'm mentioning the diet change now is because it's so much easier to do in the beginning. But if you're not ready to ditch the dry, then maybe switch to a lower carb dry food? I'm just worried that you might not see a noticeable improvement until the diet change. I'm just trying to help you out with advice for what worked with Bandit in my personal experience, and what I've seen work with so many others here that had trouble with regulation.
 
Jen & Squeak said:
While it is true that the longer he runs at higher numbers the more potential for damage, treatment can not be looked at as a race. Because if you go too fast, if you don't use proper logic, you'll likely mess things up even worse. You have to be methodical about testing and dosing and food and all the rest.

The comment about the food you are feeding...on Janet's charts there are three blue buffalo foods http://binkyspage.tripod.com/dryfood.html and all are very high in carbs. The source of the carbs might be better quality than others, but they are still high in carbs. So, while you ARE doing a great job, this might be making your work more difficult.

Jen
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link, but the food that I was feeding him is on there (Weight control/aka adult light) but the dry food that I switched him to on 4/23 is NOT:
http://www.bluebuffalo.com/cat-food/wilderness-chicken
It is listed as high in protien and low in carbs, but it does not list the carb content on this web site. I'll have to check the bag. It does list the protein and the calories. since I give him a total of 1/2 cup per day, that's 195 cals (assuming he eats it all, which usually he does not).
I have been feeding him Fancy Feast for at least 3 years - 1 3oz can per day. He eats mostly the ones that are recommended here, although he eats some of the others too. No more. On 4/23, I switched to this canned food:
http://www.bluebuffalo.com/cat-food/wil ... mon-canned
Again, high protein, low carbs. Also no grain. I also purchased some Wellness, for variety, since it says it is grain fee also:
http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/product- ... d-analysis
Maybe switching him off the dry completely while he's at the vet and can be closely watched might be a good start?
 
So how much dry food is he actually getting?

Orijen sells a great sounding dry food, great in that it doesn't contain grains and its protein sources are super. But it still works out to be over 20% of the calories from carbs, which can significantly impact blood glucose levels

The bluebuffalo canned food you linked to is likely a very nice quality, but, its sole protein source is fish. According to Dr LIsa and others, there are some issues with feeding some/too much fish, including high phosphorous levels, potential high heavy metal levels, and it can be allergenic. Also very addictive :)

Navigating food choices is tough. You've made some big strides and nobody would fault you at all. We just want you to have as much info as possible to help you choose.
 
Jen & Squeak said:
Orijen sells a great sounding dry food, great in that it doesn't contain grains and its protein sources are super. But it still works out to be over 20% of the calories from carbs, which can significantly impact blood glucose levels
Click to expand...

I also saw this with the "Taste of the Wild" grain free, high protein dry food. Bandit was eating that when he was diagnosed and it was driving up his BG levels, even thought it was supposed to be low carb. When I called for the as-fed values, I found out it was actually 19% carbs, which is way too high for a diabetic. The potatoes that are used as binders in these dry foods may not be a grain, but they are still really high in carbs.
 
Jen & Squeak said:
So how much dry food is he actually getting?

Orijen sells a great sounding dry food, great in that it doesn't contain grains and its protein sources are super. But it still works out to be over 20% of the calories from carbs, which can significantly impact blood glucose levels

The bluebuffalo canned food you linked to is likely a very nice quality, but, its sole protein source is fish. According to Dr LIsa and others, there are some issues with feeding some/too much fish, including high phosphorous levels, potential high heavy metal levels, and it can be allergenic. Also very addictive :)

Navigating food choices is tough. You've made some big strides and nobody would fault you at all. We just want you to have as much info as possible to help you choose.
Click to expand...

He usually gets 1/4 cup in the am and then again in the pm. We are going to cut back on the dry and give him more canned starting tomorrow, per conversation with vet's office.
 
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