? Feeding Times- 2 or 3?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jessica & Pumpkin

Jessica & Pumpkin

Member Since 2019
My vet diagnosed my baby girl Pumpkin with feline diabetes after her senior blood panel revealed her sugar was 315. We are going back tomorrow to get insulin and learn how to administer it. We have 2 other non diabetic cats in the house.

They are all used to getting a portion of dry food twice a day, but I usually just leave it out until they finish it. They are also used to getting a couple of tablespoons of wet food to help with hydration in the middle of the afternoon (about 1/4 of a 3oz can). 2 out of the 3 prefer kibble, but will eat a small amount of canned.

The vet recommended we feed twice a day and leave food out for an hour, then take it up. The past couple of days I have fed them at 7am and 7pm, but they do not eat all of the food in the one hour time block and the 2 non diabetics are starving in the afternoon. One of them also wakes us up around 4 am.

Pumpkin, the diabetic kitty, actually does not beg in between meals, but the other two kitties do. Is it ok to give everyone a snack in the afternoon? Like a very small amount of wet food? I bought the Fancy Feast classic pate since it is high protein and low carb.

Thanks for your input! We are new to this :cat:
 
Hello and welcome to FDMB.

It's absolutely fine and preferable to feed small snacks through the day and at night. Spreading out the food is easier on the pancreas and helps keep BG stable. Feeding twice daily is old school advice that was used with specific insulins although even then it's not necessary to limit feedings. Most of us feed our cats at least 4 and some 6 times daily.

Just a word of warning.....prescription food is not needed as there are lots of less expensive readily available retail brands available that are suitable for diabetics. Wet food is definitely preferable and most dry foods (including the prescription varieties) are far too high in carbs for diabetics but if you have kibble addicts, there are a couple of varieties of dry food that are low in carbs and acceptable for diabetics. Young Again and Dr. Elseys are both low carb.

Keep us posted on how things go tomorrow and keep the questions coming. We're here to help with anything you need or want.
 
Hi and welcome Jessica and Pumpkin. Love her photo, she is an adorable "pumpkin" to say the least. Please do come back and tell us the news about the insulin etc.

This board was a life saver for me and Idjit when we got the diagnosis. They helped me with diet, provided information about the insulin we were using, and supported us while we were learning the "sugar dance".
 
Thank you both Idjit's Mom and MrWorfMen's Mom! Do you guys have any suggestions for canned food besides Fancy Feast and Friskies? I have always heard bad things about by-products, but I'm not so sure they are that bad? I want to feed them well, but I don't want to break the bank either. We were using Trader Joe's brand before, but it is higher in carbs.

Thanks!
 
if you are in the US and have a Tractor Supply anywhere nearby, their 4Health grain free varieties are good (they are on Dr Pierson's chart, as if spelled Four), and the Blue Buffalo Wilderness grain frees are as well -- not the cheapest but for my money, best value for the buck; two of the Meow Mix Tender Favorites, seafood combos, are good too, though many prefer to avoid fish or feed it only occasionally -- I have been feeding Friskies and Fancy Feast as well, rotating the foods so cat doesn't get "tired" of any, and so that nutrients will even out over the various formulas
 
Welcome! Was Pumpkin diagnosed from just the one blood test? If so, you may want to change food and start home testing before starting insulin. 315 isn’t horribly high and vet stress along with high carb kibble you’ve been feeding may be the majority of the problem. (I have a non diabetic that tested 275 at the vet and is always normal at home even with kibble) A switch to a low carb food may bring pumpkins numbers down and the insulin dose may be too high. HomeTesting is the best way to know.
As far as food, as long as there are no kidney problems, Fancy Feast and Friskies are fine.
 
CandyH & Catcat said:
if you are in the US and have a Tractor Supply anywhere nearby, their 4Health grain free varieties are good (they are on Dr Pierson's chart, as if spelled Four), and the Blue Buffalo Wilderness grain frees are as well -- not the cheapest but for my money, best value for the buck; two of the Meow Mix Tender Favorites, seafood combos, are good too, though many prefer to avoid fish or feed it only occasionally -- I have been feeding Friskies and Fancy Feast as well, rotating the foods so cat doesn't get "tired" of any, and so that nutrients will even out over the various formulas
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion of Tractor Supply. We do have one in town and I forget they have pet food. I'll plan to look there soon. Pumpkin actually doesn't like fish and prefers turkey or chicken flavors. I found the food chart you were referring to and will use that as a reference.
 
TS has a "variety pack" of the two best ones, chicken/whitefish and turkey/giblets -- the pack is cheaper than the individual cans

ETA -- skip the Paws&Claws food for now -- some of the little cans of "Kitchen Selects" are okay, essentially Fancy Feast knockoffs -- but you have to read the labels and decide
 
Last edited:
Jessica, no, we do not want to break the bank! Especially since hopefully you will also be getting your testing supplies, as Sharon14 advised, before you actually begin insulin. No sense in buying insulin if she doesn't need it.

Some of our members use the Weruva brand canned food, Tiki Cat, and Tiki Cat After Dark too. Some of us feed raw or cooked meat with an added complete supplement.

Regarding testing: testing Pumpkin's blood sugar yourself is going to save a ton of money at the vet for visits and they will suggest you bring her in for a curve, which is a day long affair of testing every two hours, at at least $100 a pop. Most of our kitties don't enjoy even short visits at the vet, much less spending all day. Vet stress and travel can really elevate blood sugar levels. Testing her at home where she is happy, comfortable and safe is going to be far more accurate.

This does not have to break the bank either. Walmart has the ReliOn Prime meter for $9, 100 testing strips for $18, 26 or 28 gauge lancets are a couple of bucks a box. Cotton balls or cosmetic pads, some Vaseline, Neosporin or Equate pain relieving ointment may be in your bathroom now. And they aren't expensive either.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

What do you think?
 
Don't worry about by-products. They are protein and just fine for our cats. It's been my experience that a lot of the more expensive foods that seem to be straight "meat" also contain gums and carrageenan both of which are questionable ingredients that a lot of people try to avoid. The other option of course is to make your own cat food so you have total control over ingredients and Dr. Pierson has info about that on her website at https://catinfo.org/commercial-cat-foods/.
 
Sharon14 said:
If so, you may want to change food and start home testing before starting insulin.
Click to expand...

I second this advice. My Pinky was diagnosed at 466, and just a switching to wet food (Whiskas Perfect Portions currently) appears to have dropped her to the low 300's. Not saying you will see a 150 point drop, but you do not want to be giving insulin at a rate for 315 if its 200 or less after a diet change.
 
Good afternoon everyone. We went to the vet yesterday to get our insulin and instructions. My husband was nervous about it, but the vet did a thorough demonstration and I think he now feels comfortable doing it if I am not at home. I think he was mainly worried about hurting her :(. I have experience in giving insulin and testing blood glucose on humans, so not so bad for me.

Pumpkin is starting out with 1 unit of ProZinc twice a day after meals, 12 hours apart.

We are to go back in 2 weeks for a blood glucose check 4 hours after an insulin dose to see how things are going with diet changes and insulin. We will then discuss adjusting the dose if needed and get instructions on monitoring glucose at home. The vet said her numbers are not sky high at this point, and getting her down around 200 would be the goal.

The vet also told us about the signs to watch out for hypoglycemia and said that we can give her some Karo syrup and call them if she appears to have lethargy, stumbling, etc. He said this was very rare with that small of a dose.

It was a little overwhelming at first, but I'm feeling better about everything now. :D
 
Hi Jessica, it's great that you checked back in and let us know about the insulin type and dosage. You told us that you are comfortable injecting insulin and blood sugar testing on humans, and that's wonderful.

Were you able to get testing supplies so you can test Pumpkin yet? The vet told you what signs to watch for in case of a hypoglycemic event, however many cats are not symptomatic...until they are and on their way to the animal ER or vet clinic. Cats can't tell us verbally that they aren't feeling right or just what they do feel, or we don't always pick up on the signals.

Humans, as you know, are cautioned to change to a lower carb diet, and test blood sugar to see how the insulin is working, and to help prevent a hypo. They can eat something sugary to bring the blood sugar up and we do the same when our cats drop too low, we steer with some higher carb food, and in some cases, as your vet said, with the karo syrup. But, if you aren't testing and something happens, you don't know how low the BG is going, or what methods might be appropriate to steer the BG back up to safer levels. Our vet only suggested testing 2 or 3 times a week somewhere in the middle of the cycle, and I just happened to test one day..Idjit's BG was below what we call the "take action" number and members here were able to instruct me on what to do. I wasn't testing before injections, just shooting blind which I found out can be very dangerous.

No one can be sure of how any individual cat is going to react to insulin therapy, diet change or both at the same time.

From my personal experience, I wouldn't recommend waiting two weeks to see what the insulin is doing, and try to rely on physical signs to see if the blood sugar is dropping dangerously low. Yes, the one unit of Prozinc is a good starting dose, but if you are changing the diet to lower carb, that can significantly reduce the blood sugar, and you will want to know that. In addition, continuing to feed a high carb diet would be working against the action of the insulin also. It would be like a human diabetic shooting insulin and continuing to eat a high carb diet with rice, potatoes, donuts and cake.

Please take a look at the Beginner's Guide to Prozinc HERE so you can learn about how that insulin works and recommendations compiled from the years of experience and knowledge of long time Prozinc users. This information can really reduce your feelings of being overwhelmed and let you and hubby feel more in control as you learn the sugar dance.

If you would take a few minutes and create a signature we could see Pumpkin's information whenever you post, it saves time asking for the same info, you repeatedly answering or trying to page back through previous posts.

1. Setting up your signature (light grey text under a post). Here's how:
click on your name in the upper right corner of this page
click on "signature" in the menu that drops down
type the following in the box that opens: kitty's name/age/date of diabetes diagnosis/insulin you're using and dosage amount /glucose meter you're using/what (s)he eats/any other meds or health issues (s)he has. You can add your name, and a geographic location (sometimes the country/time zone matters) Be sure to SAVE when you are finished.
2. Another thing that will help us help you when you get started BG testing at home is to set up a spreadsheet like the one we use here. You will see how the trends and patterns emerge, and members can review his/her progress before offering suggestions or advice:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/

This is all new and does feel a bit scary. But the information and support is here for you. I well remember just how frightened and unsure I felt with Idjit's diagnosis. We weren't even well supported or instructed by the vet regarding insulin dosage or testing, and if it hadn't been for FDMB, well, I don't know how well we or Idjit would have fared.
 
Do I need a prescription to get a glucose meter or the strips? And do you have recommendations for reliable and reasonably priced units? I am comfortable with doing the testing myself.

I already created a chart (posted on the refrigerator) for feeding times and insulin times, so when we start the glucose monitoring at home, I'll be sure to add that to it.

Pumpkin is transitioning to all Fancy Feast Classic Pate over the next few days.

Thank you Idjit's Mom and others for your support!
 
You do not need an Rx for testing supplies. You can visit Walmart, Walmart has the ReliOn Prime meter for $9, 100 testing strips for $18, 26 or 28 gauge lancets are a couple of bucks a box. Cotton balls or cosmetic pads, some Vaseline, Neosporin or Equate pain relieving ointment may be in your bathroom now. And they aren't expensive either.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

The spreadsheet is a valuable tool for you and for us. If you set it up and link it to your signature then we can see the insulin and testing data right away. You won't have to consult your page on the fridge and type in the information. Being able to see the whole history of shots and tests is going to give everybody the essential data needed to see how the insulin is working, and suggestions can be made for increasing/decreasing, what times to get some other tests in etc. If, and I hope never, there is an emergency low number or hypo situation, that data is critical. It doesn't take much to set up, or someone here can do it for you. It takes very little time to update also.

It is very important, Jessica, to be testing since you are changing the diet. That's all it took, with 11 days of insulin to bring Idjit to remission. Surprising, but it happens and you wouldn't want to continue injecting the same dose, not knowing what is happening to the blood sugar.
 
I have ordered a ReliOn meter kit and it will be delivered tomorrow. The one I wanted to get was out of stock at my closest Walmart. I will be studying the info on here regarding testing techniques and locations.

I will set up the spreadsheet as soon as we start testing.

Thanks again for the advice!
 
Good luck with the testing Jessica. Here is something a long time experienced member, Chris & China wrote to help members get started with testing:

Here's something I wrote up for others for testing...maybe it'll help you too!

It can be really helpful to establish a routine with testing. Pick one spot that you want your "testing spot" to be (I like the kitchen counter because it's got good light and it's at a good height....it also already blocked 2 escape routes due to the wall and the backsplash) It can be anywhere though...a rug on the floor, a table, a particular spot on the couch...wherever is good for you.

Take him there as many times a day as you can and just give his ears a quick rub and then he gets a yummy (low carb) treat. Most cats aren't objecting so much with the poking..it's the fooling with their ears they don't like, but once they're desensitized to it and learn to associate a certain place with the treats, they usually start to come when they're called! Or even when they hear us opening the test kit!

You also have to remember...you're not poking him to hurt him...you're testing him to keep him safe and understand what's going on inside his body. There's just nothing better than truly understanding what's going on inside your kitty's body and with this disease, the more knowledge you have, the more power you have against it. The edges of the ears have very few pain receptors, so it really doesn't hurt them. Also, if you're nervous and tense, it's going to make your kitty nervous and tense too. As silly as it might seem, try singing! It forces you to use a different part of your brain!

It's also important to make sure his ear is warm. A small sock filled with a little rice and microwaved or a small pill bottle filled with warm water (check temp against your wrist like you would a baby bottle) works well

For new kitties, using a heavier gauge lancet is also really helpful. A 25-28 gauge lancet pokes a bigger "hole" than a 31-33 gauge lancet does, so look for "Alternate Site testing" lancets that are usually a lower number

Finding the right "treat" will be a great help too! Freeze dried chicken, bonito flakes, little pieces of baked chicken...whatever low carb treat you can find that he really enjoys will help him to associate the testing with the treat! China's Achilles heel was baked chicken, so I'd bake a piece, chop it into bite sized pieces, put some in the refrigerator and freeze the rest to use as needed. It didn't take long for her to come any time I picked up the meter!
*****

Remember, we are right here and if you are having difficulties or just want to vent a bit, post and let us know what's happening. Testing is a process of patience and practice, for both human and cat. It does get easier and becomes part of the daily routine.
 
With ProZinc, should I test before I feed her or after? I'm a little confused about the proper testing routine. And is an ideal number between 100 and 200 on a human meter? Or less than that?
 
I haven't used Prozinc and it's a good idea to check out the information in the Beginner's Guide to Prozinc, plus you know that you have read something that applies in a certain case or a question, and just where it is.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...prozinc-pzi-insulin-for-diabetic-cats.164995/

Here is some information from the Beginner's Guide:

  • The proper sequence for dosing insulin is: Test/Feed/Shoot. In the beginning, if your cat’s BG is not up to at least 200 mg/dL {11 mmol/L}, if your schedule allows, you can stall (without feeding) for 20+minutes, then retest the BG. You are looking for a number that is rising, not falling and up to 200 mg/dL {11 mmol/L}. If you stall once, but can’t do another round of stalling and your cat hasn’t reached a BG of 200 mg/dL {11 mmol/L}, you’ll need to skip the dose and wait until the next cycle. NOTE: Because pet-specific meters (such as the AlphaTrak2) often read higher than human meters, you may want to adjust the NO-SHOOT number to 225 mg/dL {12.5 mmol/L} or even 250 mg/dL {14 mmol/L} This gives you an added margin of safety when using an AlphaTrak2 or other pet-specific meter.
  • IMPORTANT NOTE: Do not feed your cat within the two-hour window right before the scheduled dose time; doing this can raise your cat’s blood significantly, giving you a higher BG number based on food. This could result in your giving insulin when you should not, or giving more insulin than you should.
  • FDMB has general BG references for use with human meters: A cat is considered regulated if BG is in the mid-200s mg/dL {mid-11s mmol/L} for pre-shot and in low 100s mg/dL {low 5.6s mmol/L} or double digits (U.S. mg/dL) for nadir. (BUT not below 50 mg/dL {2.8 mmol/L} which is approaching hypoglycemia range, which is too-low blood glucose - we commonly call this “hypo.”) If you are using an Alpha Trak2 (pet meter) your hypo range starts at 69 mg/dL {3.8 mmol/L} and below. Again: You may want to consider raising your No-Shoot number to as much as 250 mg/dL {14 mmol/L} in the beginning of this sugar dance when using a pet-specific meter. That’s your and your vet’s decision.
Non diabetic cat BG is 50 to 120 on a human meter.
 
Congrats on starting to test Pumpkin. At this early stage until you get some data, I would aim to keep BG 90 or above. Once you know how Pumpkin reacts to the insulin, that low number can be adjusted to some degree. Your routine should always be test/feed/shoot.
 
Congrats on your first successful first time test. BG still isn't that high. If that test is within 2 hours of eating, it may be partly a food bump. Try testing first thing in the AM when Pumpkin has had no food for at least 2 hours, then feed her and retest 3 or 4 hours later to see if BG has dropped or not. That will give you some idea of how well her pancreas is working.
 
Best to always test before giving insulin to ensure it is safe to give insulin and those pre-shot tests should always be after at least 2 hours without food. You need that info to make sure it is safe to give insulin. Until you get more data, if you get a pre-shot test under 200, post for advice or skip the shot.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top