Feeder question for two cats

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Oreo’smamma

Oreo’smamma

Member Since 2022
Ashleigh & Ares said:
welcome Buddy and Ibeachstance!
Buddy is gorgeous kitty!
sorry about his DX :(

just wana say Ares was 3-4 lb underweight after diabetes, vets never recommend upping calories. Got that info here, i had to feed him ALOT more than i was! He started higher calories at less than 6.5 lb and clearly just withering away...and he is now at 9lb and has been for a month now. I think he has another lb to gain but he is taking his time. He is currently getting approx 300 cal per day.
I feed him almost every 2 hours...alot of us find that feeding smaller meals throughout day (and me night with auto feeder) gives us good results and keeps the curve flatter (on lantus.)

I will definitely recommend Lantus / Semglee. Like Melissa (FrostD) said, Ares numbers are clearly night and day.

FDMB is the place to be! advice here is decades of combined experience from ppl who HAVE GONE THRU IT with their own fur babies!

My vet was also resistant to switching, have no idea why. and he was insistent that Ares would never really get better. it was very bad and sad experience with him. Some ppl here have found awesome vets who work with them and not against them.

ok, ill leav you be looks like u have a ton to read up on. :bookworm::bookworm::bookworm::smuggrin:
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Hi Ashleigh,
I am fairly new to the forum even though my kitty Oreo has been a diabetic since early 2019. He did really well for about 2 1/2 years but last August he started acting hypoglycemic and my vet really was not very much help at all. So after finding you guys, I put the freestyle libre on him for over 30 days to really get a sense of what was going on. I have not uploaded the results here because I’m not sure how to do that without spending hours. I’m a very slow typist. But the reason I am contacting you is because I had searched this site for discussion about possibly giving the night time dose a little later than the morning dose. Right now He gets Prozinc 2U around 8:30 AM and p.m. His curves sound just like this other new member (and Ares before) with steep drops and I’m wondering if I have a cat that just isn’t going to do well on Prozinc anymore? I’m considering switching to Lantis. What is the price difference? thank you!!
Dawn
 
L
Oreo’smamma said:
Hi Ashleigh,
I am fairly new to the forum even though my kitty Oreo has been a diabetic since early 2019. He did really well for about 2 1/2 years but last August he started acting hypoglycemic and my vet really was not very much help at all. So after finding you guys, I put the freestyle libre on him for over 30 days to really get a sense of what was going on. I have not uploaded the results here because I’m not sure how to do that without spending hours. I’m a very slow typist. But the reason I am contacting you is because I had searched this site for discussion about possibly giving the night time dose a little later than the morning dose. Right now He gets Prozinc 2U around 8:30 AM and p.m. His curves sound just like this other new member (and Ares before) with steep drops and I’m wondering if I have a cat that just isn’t going to do well on Prozinc anymore? I’m considering switching to Lantis. What is the price difference? thank you!!
Dawn
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I forgot to mention that it’s mainly his early morning numbers from like 4 AM to 7 AM that are really high. So I’m trying to figure out if it’s the “dawn effect“ or Somoygi effect“ or what!??
 
I would not space the shots differently. It sounds like he's just not getting the full 12 hr duration from Vetsulin, which is a common problem with Vetsulin. If he's otherwise regulated - numbers mostly between 50-150, very few above 200 - it's a problem with the insulin itself and he likely needs a switch to a longer acting insulin. If he isn't regulated, lack of duration is very common. So step 1 is getting him regulated, which isn't always possible with Vetsulin - so if you can't get him regulated on it, that would also require a switch
 
Hi gals-

I am so thankful for this forum; I no longer feel alone in this! :) I recently received the two c500 feeders and have a question. My younger kitty, Cali, is not diabetic and weighs 9 lbs. Oreo has DM and is 13lbs (not overweight). How do I make sure he gets the right feeder and not hers? I don't want her to get overweight either..
Thanks!

Dawn, Oreo, and Cali
 
Ok, he is actually on Prozinc, not Vetsulin. But thank you for answering my question; I suspect the insulin effect is wearing off too quickly, even on a longer lasting insulin. That's why I'm thinkingof trying Lantus.. His nadir is usually 4.5-5.5 hrs after insulin but the am and pm numbers are different. (and I was not orig feeding him between 9pm and morning..now he is getting more small meals even bef bed, so I bought the c500. Need to program it so haven't used it yet. He was going down to 55-70 around noon, but then by 5-7am they were over 350, sometimes 400! Crazy!
His AMPS was always high. I will be putting another Libre on soon.
Thx,
Dawn
 
Dawn --

What you're describing is what we term a "bounce." When numbers drop into a lower range, especially if your cat isn't used to being in that range, or if the numbers drop quickly, it triggers the liver and pancreas to release a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones which cause numbers to spike upwards. It's a normal phenomenon, although it's quite annoying to us. It would be very helpful to see a spreadsheet since this is entirely conjecture on my part and seeing the numbers would be helpful.

Also, FWIW, Somogyi rebound does not occur in cats. It's what amounts to an urban myth. Michael Somogyi was an MD in St. Louis who published one paper in 1938 on this. He used a small sample of humans and his paper was published in a local medical journal. The results were never replicated in humans and until relatively recently, never in cats. The insulin that was used was not a longer acting insulin. The paper that was published by Roomp & Rand disproved the existence of Somogyi in cats prescribed Lantus.
 
Oreo’smamma said:
Hi gals-

I am so thankful for this forum; I no longer feel alone in this! :) I recently received the two c500 feeders and have a question. My younger kitty, Cali, is not diabetic and weighs 9 lbs. Oreo has DM and is 13lbs (not overweight). How do I make sure he gets the right feeder and not hers? I don't want her to get overweight either..
Thanks!

Dawn, Oreo, and Cali
Click to expand...
The best thing is to feed both cats low carb food. It will help keep Oreo from cheating and also lower the risk of Cali from developing diabetes. You also do not need to feed "prescription" food. There is really nothing special about it. Many of us feed our cats Friskiest or Fancy Feast pate food.
 
Oreo’smamma said:
Hi Ashleigh,
I am fairly new to the forum even though my kitty Oreo has been a diabetic since early 2019. He did really well for about 2 1/2 years but last August he started acting hypoglycemic and my vet really was not very much help at all. So after finding you guys, I put the freestyle libre on him for over 30 days to really get a sense of what was going on. I have not uploaded the results here because I’m not sure how to do that without spending hours. I’m a very slow typist. But the reason I am contacting you is because I had searched this site for discussion about possibly giving the night time dose a little later than the morning dose. Right now He gets Prozinc 2U around 8:30 AM and p.m. His curves sound just like this other new member (and Ares before) with steep drops and I’m wondering if I have a cat that just isn’t going to do well on Prozinc anymore? I’m considering switching to Lantis. What is the price difference? thank you!!
Dawn
Click to expand...

Ares was on vetsulin before Lantus.
My vetsulin was about 65 bucks for 10ml bottle that lasted about 1.5 months
Walmart has single 300U pens of Lantus for about 95 to 100 dollars. each pens lasts Ares about 2 months, but he only gets betweent 2 and 3 units 2x per day. if Oreo needs more than that, then obviously it will go faster. I believe Chewy has the option to buy 5 pens for like 400 or more (not sure if they still do). I have multiple pens i keep in fridge in the middle of the middle shelf. do not let them freeze and dont leave them out, and they last a LONG time.
You could also see if your vet will perscribe Semglee which is generic lantus from what i gather...and you could look up to see how much that would be in comparison.
You can also check out the Forum here called Supply Closet and see if you can get some cheaper Lantus.

I use the pens with syringes, poke the pen with the syringe just like if you were doing a bottle.

If you can, and it were me, based on my experince (if you look at my sheet you will see the huge difference Lantus made in Ares) I would definitely switch to Lantus.

Let the board know how you decide to do and try and get some numbers to show the board members. They really need to see the numbers in order to help you on dosing!!!
Remember that Lantus is different from prozinc and different from vetsulin, it needs to build up in the cat and then kinda does a slow type release thing.
Please read up on it, a ton of info on the Lantus and how it works, and how to use it is under the Lantus forum!

Good luck with Oreo!
 
I would get generic/biosimilar glargine vice Lantus. Much less expensive. See:
https://www.goodrx.com/semglee?dosa...ulin+glargine&quantity=1&sort_type=popularity
Note that in place Restrictions apply and those include not for pets. However, if you click on the Get free discount and then click on I do not qualify a higher price like $132 for 5 pens shows and that is much cheaper than real Lantus.
Some caretakers here have been able to use the Lantus Saving program to get 5 pens for $99 However, many have not been able to get it to wprk.
https://www.lantus.com/sign-up-for-savings#
 
Thanks, I will read these links on Lantau/generic! Thank you so much! I only have two weeks before I have to leave for five days so this is just horrible timing…
 
Thanks, I will read these links on Lantus/generic! Thank you so much! I only have two weeks before I have to leave for five days so this is just horrible timing…
 
Larry and Kitties said:
I would get generic/biosimilar glargine vice Lantus. Much less expensive. See:
https://www.goodrx.com/semglee?dosage=five-3ml-prefilled-pens-of-100-units-ml&form=carton&label_override=insulin glargine&quantity=1&sort_type=popularity
Note that in place Restrictions apply and those include not for pets. However, if you click on the Get free discount and then click on I do not qualify a higher price like $132 for 5 pens shows and that is much cheaper than real Lantus.
Some caretakers here have been able to use the Lantus Saving program to get 5 pens for $99 However, many have not been able to get it to wprk.
https://www.lantus.com/sign-up-for-savings#
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Larry,
When you used(use) Lantus, did you feed only twice a day or multiple times a day? All the vets say only twice a day, but on this forum a lot of folks seem to feed multiple times a day. That’s what I’ve been doing on my own recently but although it keeps him from continually meowing all day long, he is still not stable. What I don’t understand is why the Prozinc worked for 2 1/2 years and now it’s not.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
I would advise you to set up a spreadsheet so the members can see how the insulin is working
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/
The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help.

If you need help setting it up just ask , we have a member that will be glad to do it for you
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Hi Diane,
One of the members set up the spreadsheet for me. I would like to import my freestyle libre graphs rather than spend a week and a half inputting numbers. There has got to be a way to do that.
Dawn
 
We need you to set up our spreadsheet. You don’t need to input all numbers from the past but a couple of weeks would help us to help you. I can tell you that unless you have a spreadsheet you will not get dosing advice. I have never used PZI So not the best one to ask for dosing advice.

if you switched to lantus please update your signature to reflect that. I’ll be glad to help if you have a spreadsheet and using a depot insulin.
 
Oreo’smamma said:
Larry,
When you used(use) Lantus, did you feed only twice a day or multiple times a day? All the vets say only twice a day, but on this forum a lot of folks seem to feed multiple times a day. That’s what I’ve been doing on my own recently but although it keeps him from continually meowing all day long, he is still not stable. What I don’t understand is why the Prozinc worked for 2 1/2 years and now it’s not.
Click to expand...
I feed all mine 2x daily. It wouod be too much worked to feed more frequently since I have to feed all of mine in separate rooms.
 
I fed Max 3 or more small meals each cycle and tried to get it all in during the first half of the cycle. I found feeding the curve kept his bg flatter.
 
Lisa and Witn (GA) said:
The best thing is to feed both cats low carb food. It will help keep Oreo from cheating and also lower the risk of Cali from developing diabetes. You also do not need to feed "prescription" food. There is really nothing special about it. Many of us feed our cats Friskiest or Fancy Feast pate food.
Click to expand...
Yes, I do feed low carb FF and raw to both. And I don’t think the prescription food is very good for them- especially the dry! It blows my mind that modern-day vets are so uneducated when it comes to food for diabetic cats. Seems like some of them are getting better but…

Dawn
 
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