? Fancy Feast Classic Pate or Purina DM?

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Peter Moore

Peter Moore

Member Since 2019
Zelda's been eating Fancy Feast classic pate for 7 months (rotated between Chicken, Liver & Chicken, and Beef. She doesn't like the other flavors like Turkey or Salmon). This is supplemented with bits of raw beef steak and cooked chicken as treats.

We've gone from 1.0U glargine twice a day in July, to now being at the threshold between 0.1U and 2 drops twice a day. Very much liking the direction we're headed!

The "internal medicine specialist" (basically the emergency vet who happened to get her case when we brought her in last July for bad hyperglycemia symptoms and first diagnosed her) now says to try Purina DM. Classic Original - NOT the savory selects. I take this suggestion with a grain of salt, but I want to be sure I'm not overlooking some possible benefit here.

According to Dr. Pierson, Fancy Feast averages 2-3% carbs, whereas the DM would average 6%. That's obviously a significant difference. Protein is comparable and FF is a bit higher in fat.

However, I noticed Fancy Feast has a much higher phosphorous content - 408-478 vs. 297 for DM. Zelda doesn't have full blown kidney disease, but the last blood work was borderline (urine concentration was still good though) and we have been keeping an eye on it. Her primary care vet - who I trust pretty well with non diabetes issues - also said a prescription diet might be something to consider for kidney health, though the K/D is obviously not suitable for a diabetic (or probably any cat).

One other factor is that we are trying hard to keep Zelda's weight up. At her fattest she was a plump 12 lbs but the diabetes took a toll on her weight and now it's a challenge to keep her above 7. She typically eats FOUR CANS of Fancy Feast per day to maintain that weight.

Cost is not a significant concern. All I care about is the princess's best chances for getting OTJ and quality of life for her remaining time with us. (That said, I don't know that making all her food at home is realistic, so I really would want to stick with something I can purchase).

SO:
Does anyone see any good reason to start to introduce DM, either in combination with FF, or as a total replacement?

Thanks!
 
I see no reason to change - I've never been a big fan of DM. Several cats here over the years didn't like it altho' some did. If phosphorus content is a problem, you can always use phosphorus binders when kidney numbers warrant it's use.
 
Thanks!

Also one other point the vet did make - again just putting all the arguments on the table, not saying I believe this one way or another - is that the higher carb % is not necessarily a problem, because if they're complex, slowly digestible carbs they could help smooth the BG profile and maybe avoid some of the close calls we've been seeing at even very small doses, without causing significant spikes. The only added carbs DM has are guar gum (which FF also has, and which is basically nothing but fiber) and oat hulls, so it's definitely low glycemic index / high fiber stuff.

Indeed, we got a 60 nadir and then later a 42 nadir with 0.25 BID. 0.1 proved difficult to keep consistent, and so I moved to 2 injections of 1 drop each, twice a day. We're now steadily in the low 200s it appears, which is acceptable for now but higher than I'd like to be. If a slightly higher carb content makes it safer to administer a consistent dose that keeps her lower overall is that necessarily a bad thing?
 
In the last bit before Rhubarb went otj, I was feeding slightly higher to give her that extra carbs for the insulin to work with. Sometimes it just needs to be done.

I've been feeding Boreal foods (canada only I think) which have very low carbs, and use beans and peas for carbs. I've noticed absolutely no food spike with it, which seems to support the low carb/ low glycemic index claim. I'm not sure if other brands using the same type of carb source are as low carb .
 
Oh that's interesting thanks. Good to know there's some precedent for it.

I'm inclined to give her a few spoonfuls of it and see what happens. Since we're on such a tiny dose of insulin, even if she hurls it it shouldn't cause a problem.

majandra said:
beans and peas for carbs
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Nice. Those are the same carb ingredients as in the Orijen dry food I was using as treats until recently, incidentally.
 
Peter Moore said:
Thanks!

Also one other point the vet did make - again just putting all the arguments on the table, not saying I believe this one way or another - is that the higher carb % is not necessarily a problem, because if they're complex, slowly digestible carbs they could help smooth the BG profile and maybe avoid some of the close calls we've been seeing at even very small doses, without causing significant spikes. The only added carbs DM has are guar gum (which FF also has, and which is basically nothing but fiber) and oat hulls, so it's definitely low glycemic index / high fiber stuff.

Indeed, we got a 60 nadir and then later a 42 nadir with 0.25 BID. 0.1 proved difficult to keep consistent, and so I moved to 2 injections of 1 drop each, twice a day. We're now steadily in the low 200s it appears, which is acceptable for now but higher than I'd like to be. If a slightly higher carb content makes it safer to administer a consistent dose that keeps her lower overall is that necessarily a bad thing?
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No, I don't think that's a bad thing. This is very much a balancing act and using slightly higher carb food to allow a small dose to be given safely is sensible in my opinion.
 
Peter Moore said:
Oh that's interesting thanks. Good to know there's some precedent for it.

I'm inclined to give her a few spoonfuls of it and see what happens. Since we're on such a tiny dose of insulin, even if she hurls it it shouldn't cause a problem.


Nice. Those are the same carb ingredients as in the Orijen dry food I was using as treats until recently, incidentally.
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Orijen also makes good freeze dried meat/fish treats. Have you tried those?
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Orijen also makes good freeze dried meat/fish treats. Have you tried those?
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Ooh, no but I will!

I really have to say I thought we were getting excellent results by mixing in extremely small amounts (<1 tsp) of the Orijen Kat & Kitten kibble with her Fancy Feast. I never attributed a BG spike to it and on the contrary her numbers only got better in the subsequent weeks. (When I needed to get her out of the danger zone once, however, "Perfect Weight" got her BG up REAL fast). But everyone recommended removing it entirely so I have done so except for LITERALLY 1 or 2 pieces here and there to entice her to finish her meal.

It makes sense to me that a diet for a cat on the cusp of achieving insulin independence, but who is still receiving insulin therapy, would be different than for a cat who has achieved remission, and would also be different for a cat who is nowhere near remission. But of course I don't have nearly as much experience with this as most people here.
 
I gave Jones for the longest time whiskas treats. I have also done the higher carb 6-9% food and the 1%. I found over time different things worked for the period we were in it.

The body changes so having options available and knowing how kitty reacts to it is never a bad thing.
 
Well, for what it's worth, DM gets the Princess's seal of approval! She really enjoyed it. Of course cats usually like anything new and different at first...

Her first poop after eating it was a little soft, but given the higher fiber content I'm not surprised. Will have to see how the next couple days go.

Today was about 1.5 cans of FF and one can of DM so roughly equal calories from each. It'll stay that way for awhile most likely, if not indefinitely.

Based on today's BG numbers I can't say one way or another if it had a negative impact.
 
I don't have any advice, but am in a similar situation with my Chester. It looks like he's close to getting OTJ and if he does the vet wants me to put him back on the DM. He was on it previously (with DM kibble) and it didn't seem to help. He's doing great on Friskies and I question switching him. Also, I'm disabled and the DM food isn't cheap and from things I seen in the forum, it isn't a great quality food either. Anyways, good luck.
 
Every case is different, but my sweet Muffin's glucose stays very well-controlled on just regular fancy feast wet food (the costco ones). She is now OTJ.
 
Alicia & Chester said:
I don't have any advice, but am in a similar situation with my Chester. It looks like he's close to getting OTJ and if he does the vet wants me to put him back on the DM. He was on it previously (with DM kibble) and it didn't seem to help. He's doing great on Friskies and I question switching him. Also, I'm disabled and the DM food isn't cheap and from things I seen in the forum, it isn't a great quality food either. Anyways, good luck.
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The vet tried to make me feel that way about the DM food as well, but my cat stays in remission on fancy feast wet food alone. The DM food has a lot of weird additives and it gave her hallacious diarrhea.
 
Thought I would just follow up on this -
We began switching to Purina DM two weeks ago and phasing out Fancy Feast on the recommendation of both doctors after determining that what looked like remission was actually IBD. This is supplemented with a weekly B12 injection and metrodinazole and pepcid once a day.

Her overall health has improved dramatically in just two weeks. It is definitely higher carb and her insulin requirements have gone back up, but it's well worth it. She's finally gaining weight again and goes nuts for the food. I do an occasional Fancy Feast for mid-day meals but DM is what accompanies her insulin shots and I feel a lot better about leaving her alone during the day knowing that there is some sugar in her stomach.
 
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