Falling glucose level at +12

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Voula

Voula

Member Since 2014
It seems that since the dental that Lucy is experiencing some changes in the pattern of her glucose levels as we had a long run of blue numbers two days ago then I presume what is a bounce yesterday and now today her +12 is lower than her +10 so even though she has a reading of 169 at +12 which is okay to give insulin at I am going to wait and test again at two hours after food because at one hour after a good amount of food there was no change in the reading. I feel we are in uncharted waters so to speak :) because since the dental nearly two weeks ago the pattern of numbers is different to what it has been. It almost feels like we are starting again. I have given Lucy insulin at similar readings before and even a slightly falling predose number but her pattern is different now. For example, after some blue and green numbers in the past her bounces would last for days but now here we are back in blue numbers with only two high readings after a long run of blue numbers the other day. I feel all at sea at the moment :).
My previous post:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/26-1-15-lucy-amps-203-3-268-6-310-pmps-304.132041/
 
As they get more time in better numbers, their body gets used to being there so bounces will usually clear faster

It looks like she's clearing her bounce during this cycle

Since she hasn't really "earned" any reduction yet, I'd shoot the same 3 units tonight, but I'd get a +1 and +2 and be prepared in case she drops too low tonight
 
Thank you Chris very much. Yes I intend to keep the dose the same and I will definitely do tests at +1 and +2. If Lucy's glucose go lower at say +4 I can see it starting by +2. But now I see that her levels are going lower later in the cycle so I will be testing more often as I have been. We haven't usually had lower AMPS and PMPS than the rest of the cycle before so I decided to wait to give this morning's insulin as these lower numbers late in the cycle are new and I want to see what happens if I wait. I don't want to give insulin if I see that in a few hours the numbers might be in hypoglycemic range so I am trying to get more data now as the pattern has changed since the dental was done.
 
One thing that can happen with some Lantus and Levemir kitties is called a second dip. They take a second dip down towards PMPS, but the dip is still higher than the nadir earlier in the cycle. I believer Chris's China is a pro at that. ;) Since you didn't get a nadir test last night (not saying you should have cause she was probably safe to go to bed), but without it, it's hard to tell if this is a second dip or an all night slide. It's fine to shoot a double dip without a stall.

Since it's day time and if you are around to monitor, I wouldn't wait too long before shooting. By the way, when Neko was on Lantus I had to shoot a falling number all the time, cause often her nadir ended up being at +12 when she was getting over a bounce. There's nothing wrong with shooting a dropping number, if you have data and can monitor, especially since she's only in mid blues. In greens I'd be a bit more careful. How long since you last fed Lucy?
 
Thank you Wendy. It is about two and a half hours since I fed Lucy so I am going to test again soon. I have to go out for a while so that was part of my thinking to wait until the number is rising before giving the insulin dose. That is good to know you dosed a falling number all the time. There seems so much to learn but good to learn it.
 
I did it. I gave Lucy her insulin when her glucose level was under 200. She surfed for five hours past her morning insulin dose without going low or very high and two days ago she did the same for eight hours after her night dose and both times her levels did not drop too low so this is all good to know. We are now on a later dosing schedule again but that is okay as I am home most of the time in any case.
 
Okay I will do thank you so much Chris. It was interesting to see the numbers unchanged five hours past the next insulin dose was due and again the other day the same.
 
Before the dental it seemed that the insulin was wearing off at about ten hours after the dose. Now it seems we are getting lower numbers for at least sixteen hours after the dose.
 
Thank you Sandy. That is very interesting as that is what I am seeing too now after the dental and I think Wendy said the same thing about ten days after a dental seeing positive changes in glucose readings too. I think today I am seeing bouncing again from the lower levels yesterday. If the pattern repeats as it did the last two times this past week then I might see some lower glucose levels again soon. I will monitor closely as I start to see lower glucose levels again.
 
good for you for shooting that 187 this morning! She's making progress. I read through Wendy & Marje's advice from yesterday about shooting lower - you'll get there. Just know that sooner is better for her than later! ;):):bighug:
 
Thank you Julie. I worry about everything these days it seems. :) We will get there as I know others have also felt the same way too and now are not so anxious. I have a huge anxiety about hypoglycemia which eased off a month or so ago as I saw that Lucy had fairly flat curves but now she is really surprising me with lower numbers and it feels like they can happen any time. With college starting again soon I am going to be a nervous wreck going to classes though I will still be home most of the time. I don't know how people do it who have to work full time. How do they manage the anxiety of worrying about too low numbers while they are out? Or maybe not everyone worries like I do. :nailbiting::)
 
Oh, believe me, everyone worries. :bighug: What really helps is gathering data on Lucy's cycles. If you can shoot those blues without stalling, you'll get data now to give you an idea what she'll do when you aren't around to monitor as much. And autofeeders are definitely your friend. If you can arrange your schedule so you can get a +2 before you get out the door, it'll tell you if you need to load it with low or high carb food to keep her safe while you are gone.
 
Thank you Wendy. Now that is motivation to dose without stalling when we get blue numbers. I have two autofeeders and can use those. Yes I can do a +2 before I go out. So if the +2 is lower than AMPS would I then leave high carb food out when I am out? I am lucky that my neighbour is a friend and she often pops in to check on Lucy if I am going to be out all day and I do the same for her cat too if needed. I also leave the icam on and check in on Lucy when I am out. I joke with my family and friends that I always have a back up plan for the back up plan when I go out now. Someone calling in, the icam in three locations in the house, enough food out to feed Lucy for two days and I still worry though good to know others worry too which of course I know they do. :)
 
Just remind yourself that her normal numbers are probably around 40-80 if she wasn't getting insulin. Her normal range on insulin would be 50-120 for all of her tests. That's the range her pancreas can heal in - and as a newly diagnosed kitty she still has the possibility of having that happen.

I know i've given you a few links before, but i want to especially point out Davison's spreadsheet. It's just so pretty. Notice what happens in February 2014 when Shawna begins to shoot the full dose into blue numbers. It was only about a week until he was dropping into green numbers at preshot. Full dose - and monitored afterwards while she learned what he would do. Like Lucy, he was at kind of a higher dose - he was at 2.75u per shot. Things just flattened out and then he made his way down the dosing scale, mostly 0.25u per week at a time. I just want to inspire & encourage you!! Maybe the next time you get a blue preshot, and you're not in danger of losing electricity and you'll be home for the next few hours, you'll be able to make the leap. :bighug:
 
Thank you Julie. The link to Davidson's spreadsheet doesn't work but I will do a search on the board and see if I can find it. Yes I need to make that leap soon. :) It helps to see examples to encourage me and to give me confidence too so thank you again.
 
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Hi again Julie. I found Davidson's spreadsheet and it is very good to see how Shawna gave the full dose into blue and green numbers too. Very inspiring indeed. It is so interesting that the glucose levels didn't drop when dosing into green numbers. Why is that? Shouldn't insulin reduce glucose levels or does lantus work in a different way than the in and out insulins do? This is very interesting and comforting too.
 
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Both Lantus and Levemir work best when in low numbers. This post on the Insulin Depot, describes a bit how they work. When I give Neko her shot and she's in the 80's, she often hardly moves at all, sometimes less than 10 points in 12 hours. I actually find it more predictable (and easier on me) than when she's at a higher number and I don't know how much she's going to fall.
 
Hi Wendy. I have just been studying the chart that Julie sent a link to and this is really a revelation :) as I can see when AMPS and PMPS are higher there is a drop to lower numbers but when the AMPS and PMPS are lower there is hardly any change. Wow. I can almost hardly wait to dose at a lower number now. :D Well anxiously dose. :cool::)
 
What Wendy said.:D

I have some more info that I can get for you tomorrow. It can completely change everything by shooting low. Once people see how it works they want the opportunity.

Another ss to look at is Max's. Elise has to test a lot more than most people -that doesn't happen like that with every cat, but still you can scroll back on his spreadsheet and see when she first started shooting the full dose into normal numbers. Look for the change in colors on his ss at preshot time, especially when the preshot become green. It's amazing and very counter-intuitive.
 
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