Eyes on Bølle's ss please

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Nina & Bølle Denmark

Nina & Bølle Denmark

Member Since 2012
Hi guys
I need some advice on how to handle Bølle. In the beginning og August his numbers looked really good, happy was I, but now his numbers has raised again, and I and Charlotte are not sure what to do.
Maybe you can read something in his numbers, I can't see.
The question is: should I raise the dose or would it be wiser to lower the dose?
I'm sure he hasn't been low in numbers the past few days, as he has been peeing to much.
He's doing ok, doesn't seem to having any illness.
Yours
Nina
 
Hi Nina, good to see you post. I'm glad he has been doing well, sorry to see the numbers creeping up.

How fresh is the insulin? It should be OK unless it has been left out at room temperature too many times. You know not to shake or roll it, right. I keep mine on the second shelf of the fridge where it would not be jiggled whenever the door is opened or be in direct reach of the cold air blowing in from the freezer area.

He is still eating a low carb diet right? No evidence of either a UTI or bad teeth?

If all of those things are OK, then I am inclined to think he needs a little less insulin and a steady dose. I noticed that you increase/decreased based on his PS about every 4-5 days. Lev doesn't work too well when you do that. It's best to hold a steady dose and if you start to get lower PS's followed by high numbers, reduce .1u and see if they even out.

Except for that PS of 61, I think all of the low ones you could have shot the full dose. That 61 looks like he may have been even lower at +10 or so and was on the swing up (rebounding). If you get a number like that you don't feel comfortable shooting, wait 30 minutes, don't feed, and retest. If he is rising, then you can shoot the full dose.

I think .8u or .7u might be a better dose for him. You could drop him down for 3 days and see if his numbers improve. Be sure to test for ketones during that time. If the numbers get better and then start to creep up again, I would try going down by .1u instead of up.
 
Hi Sheila
Thank you for your advise. This morning amps 292. I have given him 0.8u and will keep that dose if he isn't creeping upwards.
No, I don't think, there is anything wrong with his teeth, and no sign of UTI. He just pee more, when his numbers are above 250.
I keep the pen on the same shelf in the middle of the refrigerator, so it should be ok.
I still feed him with low carb food - only wet.
I do have a question regarding Applaws. There is 1% rice added. Will this amount influence on his numbers. As far as I can calculate, 88% of calories in rice is carbohydrate, but this small amount shouldn't add many calories. Do you have any experience with this particular cat food?
Yours
Nina
 
I am not familiar with that food, but I checked it out on line. It looks like it is only 1-2% carbs, so it should be OK carb-wise. I am concerned, however, that it does not have any vitamins and minerals in it, specifically taurine, calcium, Vit E, Vit B12. Their dry food does have vitamins and minerals added. I am not saying to feed the dray food, but that it is strange they do not put them in the wet food. They say there is natural taurine in the muscle proteins - not sure - but what about the other necessary nutrients? You might want to look into adding at least taurine to his food. There is a recipe for faw cat food on catinfo.org that lists supplements and explains what they are needed for. It might help you to figure out what should be added to his food. Here is a link to that page: http://www.catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood#The_Recipe

Anyway, lets see how he does on this dose over the next few days.
 
Thanks for your answer. I am aware that there is no vitamins and minerals added, so I only add a small amount on top on the complete food, I'm feeding him.
I only use Applaws and Schesir, which are considered to be high end cat food with very low carb content, to add some proteins.
Pmps last night: 283.
Amps: 185.
Hope he will stay in blue.
 
OK - I wonder if they have a more complete nutritional analysis available is you email them? Would be curious about taurine amounts as well as calcium. Glad you are adding some vitamins.

His am PS looks good - 100 pts lower than last night. Maybe things are evening out a bit. Can you get some spot checks tomorrow?
 
I will try to get nutritial information if possible. They (Applaws) write on the webside, that there is no additives - only what's natural in the meat or fish, which is 75% of the content. They claim, that you can feed up to 156 g a day combined with complete food.
Schesir however has additives/kg: vitamin A 1325 U.I, vit D3 110 U.I, vit E 15 mg and taurine 160 mg. They claim, that you can feed up to 200g (2 pouches) a day in combination with complete food.
However he didn't stay in blue.
As you can see in his numbers, he is pretty steady around 300.
It is very hard to figure out what to do. I have kept the dose at 0.8.
 
I would move him to .9u and let that settle for at least 3 days.

The key may be in finding a dose that works "most" of the time and sticking with it through occasional lows and highs. The way to do they is, on a low (like the 85 a few weeks ago) either wait 30s and retest to make sure he is on the way up (do not feed until the second test), or reduce only slightly and then go right back to the regular dose on the next PS. I think you will find that he is climbing at +12 especially if he is below 100, so you can still safely shoot the full dose. After a few times doing this, and getting some data, you will feel comfortable that he will not drop too low.

It seems like those two food companies are relying on someone feeding another "complete" food in addition to their own. Strange. Just be aware of his nutritional needs and see about supplementing these foods if you need to. Think about the nutritional analysis of a mouse or bird. That is what he needs from the tinned food.
 
Hi Nina -

This is kind of off topic, but I saw this today, and we'd asked several times before (jokingly): How many carbs in a mouse?

"A young healthy cat should be eating a diet similar to his wild cousins – one that is high in protein, high in fats, and low in carbohydrates. A mouse is composed of about 40-45% protein, 40-45% fat, and only 3-5% carbohydrates."

source: http://felinedocs.com/dr-elyse-kent/the ... ening-food

Hope you continue to do well with your boy!

Lu-Ann
 
Thanks for your advise.
Amps: 349 , so I have raised the dose to 0.9u.
I'll look in to the nutritional information.
I add the brands of food mentioned to raise the content of proteins, and because you can see just by looking at it, what kind of meat/fish is in the can.
Both brands recommend to feed their own dry food also due to vitamins, but I don't want to feed him with dry food again.
 
They do seem to be very good in term so of protein, fats and carbs. Even their dry is better than most, but I would not feed it as anything but treats.

There is never a perfect answer. The foods are either too expensive, or have poor quality ingredients, or have fillers and/or too high in carbs. Sigh. If I could, I would feed a raw diet, but I can't afford it. Are there raw diets available where you are?
 
Oh yes, I have considered raw food, but I find it hard to believe, that I can get that old stubborn cat to eat that.
He will eat a small amount of raw chicken and fish, but never enough.
BARF is avaible and can be delivered. I'm not sure, how expensive it will be - hard to figure how much they eat in a month. Maybe I should try chicken neck or day-old chicks (the company claims that cats love the latter), but Bølle has never bothered to eat anything with feather or fur (just played with them).
PMPS: 272 - so I hold the dose at 0.9 for now.
 
Not sure about the BARF foods. They all contain garlic, which is supposed to be toxic to both cats and dogs. I also would not feed chicken necks - too many bones. Even in the raw form that might be, literally, difficult to swallow. Are day old chicks, um, exactly what they sound like? Frozen?

I still would look at plain raw chicken with supplements, as detailed on Dr. Lisa's site. Or supplements to the food you are already feeding. You could even add some chunks of raw chicken to that. I add taurine, salmon oil, digestive enzymes and probiotics to the canned food I feed. I just make up a batch that lasts two days and keep it in the fridge.
 
Thanks for the tip about food outside US. I have not seen it. I will check it out.
It is possible to get BARF in Denmark, I'm just not sure that I can get that old cat to eat it. Yes day-old chicks are what they sound like. Tiny frozen chicks.
I'm not sure what to choose regarding food. The last two day I have put some raw chicken in his low carb food.
As you can see in his SS very good numbers this morning:220, but this evening pmps: 367 - maybe due to car ride to our house in the country, but actually he has been doing very well in numbers during the summer despite car rides.
I do need some advise whether I in fact should try lower dose to see how he react similar to when we started on Levemir.
 
I would go to 1u now. Just stick with it as you have been with the .8u and .9u. If you get a low PS, wait, not feeding, for 30 mins and retest. If he is rising you can give the full dose. If you feel you must reduce, I would not shoot anything less than .8u, and then I would go back to 1u on the next shot.

Ideally, you get them low and keep them low, but the lower you are keeping them the more data you need to get to make sure it is safe. It is always a good idea to get a few spot checks the first few times you shoot a full dose on a low PS, even if you have waited and shot a rising number.

I did not mean to upset the food situation. I think the food you are feeding is great in terms of protein quality and low carbs, it just lacks the complete nutrition of taurine, calcium and vitamins, but that is something you should be able to find and add to his food. Can you order from Amazon? I think you said you were adding vitamins, just make sure they have taurine and look into what he should get in terms of calcium. You can ask on Health for sources for those things where you are.
 
I will continue the feeding. The brand which is the primary food is a complete food with vitamins and taurine. The other brands are just to rise the content of protein. But I have often wondered, whether Barf would better.
AMPS: 329, so I have raised the dose to 1.0u
 
Still can't figure out that cat. If you see his numbers, I can't get him down like in july/august. Did some spot-checks in the weekend.
I need some advise whether to raise the dose or if I should try to lower the dose, like when he started on Levemir?
I do feed him the same amount every day. I've had to raise the amount, when he is above 270. Otherwise he is begging for food constantly.
At the moment I feed him 2,6 oz (75g) four times a day (75% low carb complete food - below 5% - and add 25% raw chicken).
His weight is 14,3 pound, and he has kept this weight for 3 months.
 
Still can't figure out that cat. If you see his numbers, I can't get him down like in july/august. Did some spot-checks in the weekend.
I need some advise whether to raise the dose or if I should try to lower the dose, like when he started on Levemir?
I do feed him the same amount every day. I've had to raise the amount, when he is above 270. Otherwise he is begging for food constantly.
At the moment I feed him 2,6 oz (75g) four times a day (75% low carb complete food - below 5% - and add 25% raw chicken).
His weight is 14,3 pound, and he has kept this weight for 3 months.
 
That's about 10.5 ozs, which seems about right. A 10 lb cat will eat about 6-8 ozs.

I would raise the dose again to 1.2u.

It is almost as if the insulin is pooping out. If he is otherwise healthy (teeth ok, etc.) that's the only thing I can think of. Is there ANYTHING else that has changed for him in his home, the people or animals in his daily life, food, other meds...?

Is your insulin in a pen/cartridge or a vial? Do you have another, unopened one you can try? If you do that, you probably want to either reduce the dose on the first few shots to, say .7u, or be home to monitor him.

I can't think of another reason why he isn't getting as low as he did before on the same dose.
 
Thanks for your advise.
I'm using a pen only 1/5 left, but I have a newer pen at the country house, and there were no difference in his numbers last weekend.
Last night pmps was 283, this morning amps: 270. I have kept the dose at 1.0u. Think I'll wait to the weekend before raising the dose.
I don't think there's anything wrong with him. His teethes look all right, and he's acting as usual. There has been no changes in his environment, so it's hard to figure out what's happening - just keep on I think :-)
 
Yes I am. We are going to our country house friday after work, so I think saturday.
I tested his urine yesterday. There was no ketones, but 3+ white blood cells - no nitrite (indicator for infection, but you probably know that).
He shows no signs of urinary infection, so I'm not sure.
Last night pmps: 317
This morning amps: 270.
 
I think that if you do not see decent numbers on the curve, you can go to 1.2u. I know that is higher than he was before when he got decent numbers, but something has changed so you want him to not be in those high numbers. Being above renal threshold makes his kidneys work harder, and may lead to a little dehydration, which you don't want.
 
Ok I will. Yesterday he didn't eat his lunch for some reason, and after car ride he was high in numbers 396. Maybe he has been low during the day.
He ate well, I have chosen to stay on 1.1u
Amps this morning 304. Will see how he eats today before raising the dose further.
I have arranged a visit to the vet tuesday morning to check him out.
 
Thanks for your concern. The weekend went okay, but he's hard to figure out. I have raised the dose to 1.3u. Apparently is this OK.
The vet did not find anything yesterday, but are considering to check him out for pancreatitis. She would consult a colleague before deciding, as he has no obvious symptoms, and the samples have to be sent to Germany.
Lucky for me she said, that he is taken very well care of, and that he doesn't look like a fourteen year old cat :-)
Pmps today: 256
 
Hi Nina -
Just a quick thought... you said Bolle's BG was high after the ride. I've seen Grayson's number jump 100 points after a ride in the car. Every once in awhile you have to look past one number like that.

Hoping you've gotten the food figured out.

Lu-Ann
 
That's great that the vet thinks you are taking such good care of him.

Pancreatitis usually has symptoms, but not always. Beau used to get it all the time and he would eat less and less and be somewhat withdrawn. A couple of times he stopped eating completely and was hiding or just hunkered down in an out of the way place. But my civvie, Charlotte, had it once and her only symptom was that she as throwing up, which she did a lot because she had hyperT and also had hair balls all the time, but one day she threw up about 3 times in a row so I took her to the vet. The only clue was elevated liver values in her blood work. And she was a little dehydrated, so I gave her fluids for a few days.
 
Still waiting to hear the vet's decision.
Went to our country house last night, so pmps +13 was 347. Always late arrival due to heavy traffic.
Yesterday morning I raised the dose to 1.4u.
So far it's all right. Amps today: 286
 
You might be increasing too fast. He looked like he was getting better numbers on the 1.2u with that 166 and then 214 PSs. I would have held that dose a few more says to see what happened.

Have a good weekend in the country. Are the leaves still in color there, or starting to all fall off now? I am heading to the country at the end of next week, but since it is north of here, I think I will have totally bare trees to greet me! Usually I go at the beginning of the month, but could not this year.
 
You might be right. I just thought, that if the insulin is a bit old, it would be all right - I so much wish he would be a little lower in numbers.
pmps tonight: 248
Hope I'm doing the right thing.
Here it's also autumn - still green leaves but many yellow and red as well, and some places in Denmark below zero during the night. There was a bit of frosting on the bushes this morning. have a nice weekend.
 
Hope you're having (or have had) a wonderful time in the country. In North Carolina, a lot of people have a house at the beach (Atlantic Ocean), but a few of my friends have a place in the mountains, about 5 hrs away. This time of year the leaves are probably in their peak. When I was there about 3 weeks ago for work, there was just the slightest touch of color starting. But it can be breathtaking if you catch it at the right time!

Bolle doesn't mind the ride? Does he enjoy being at the country house?

Lu-Ann
 
Yes we do enjoy getting away from the city (we live in Copenhagen) to the countryside (our little house is near the beach in the western part of Zealand), and Bølle loves it. He doesn't like the car ride, but when we arrive he takes a stroll around the house to check everything out. He has some favorite spots under the bushes, where he can stay for hours - but only when the weather is good - otherwise he prefers our bed.
Finally he's showing some lower numbers - today amps: 225 and pmps: 167 - so I did not dare to give him 1.4u in the evening - lowered the dose to 1.3. maybe a mistake - we will see.

Nina
 
Your place sounds wonderful - and cat friendly.

Next time you get a PS like 167 AND can be there (and awake) to test him, try the full dose. Lev like consistency and dropping the dose even slightly might cause you to loose momentum. Shoot low to stay low, they say. But you do want to be there the first few times to test/monitor until you know how he will respond to the full dose on a low PS.
 
Ok - I do so. I'm just a chicken easy to frighten. Hope his numbers is good tomorrow morning.
And yes we love our little house, and the garden is Bølle's territory, and he does not allow other cats to be there.
 
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