Extremely High Tryglycerides and Cholesterol. Need Advice

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skybar22

skybar22

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Morgaine, who has been diet controlled, has just had a fasting blood test and her tryglycerides were over 1600 and chlolesterol was more than double the norm. I know lab values for normal are not correct but hers are clearly way out there. Her BG was 365 under severe vet stress and it came back down to 199 the next day. She is generally in the normal range. I took her to a vet who only treats cats as I was having some real issues with another vet. He wasn't getting down to business. He was just very laid back. So, although the new vet is on board with glargine protocol used here, she is more concerned about getting these lipids down first. She is wanting me to put Norgaine on the purina OM diet with 25% carbs. I do not want to exacerbate the diabetes and I know high carbs will. The vet agrees but thinks we need to do this first and manage her on Lantus and then she is suggesting Purina DM. I do not want to put her on DM either. Her current food has too much fat.

Can anyoine help me figure out how to get the fat down without these prescription foods. Morgaine is also very fussy and it took me a huge struggle to finally get her a food she likes. she eats Pro Plan chicken and liver. It is very low in carbs, under 4%. She loved FF until the forula changed but also high in fat. I tried to feed her a raw diet and she refused it completely.
 
Re: Extremely High Tryglycerides and Cholesterol. Need Advi

Yes, she hadn't eaten in 12 hours.
 
Re: Extremely High Tryglycerides and Cholesterol. Need Advi

I'm no expert, but I do wonder if diet is the issue. You could change diet and still have elevated tryglyerides and cholesterol.

What symptoms are you seeing?

Claudia
 
Re: Extremely High Tryglycerides and Cholesterol. Need Advi

There are no symptoms but her fasting triglycerides were 1600, up from 1000 a few weeks ago and she had fasted 12 hours.

All of her blood work and urinalysis were normal except for high BG and glucose in urine but she was totally stressed and BG went from 365 to 199 without insulin overnigh. I still think she might be recovering from that stress hyper. Just tested her 1 hr after eating and she was 173. My cat has been diet controlled and there is a question of whether she needs insulin now so we are looking at that and I am home testing her this week. She had been off the chart on urine diastix and then returned to negative the next day. Never any keytones. Vet is concerned that her pancreas may be inflamed but all blood work looks normal. She really is concerned about the sky high lipids. I know nothing about lipids but a great deal abour diabetes. I, myself, am a 50 year type 1. Vet wanted to do an ultrasound but I can't afford that right now. She wants to look at the pancreas and kidneys. Morgaine has had polydipsia and polyuria with normal range BGs which is why I went to the vet. She had 2 fructosamines, 2 weeks apart. First one was 424 and second one was in the 500's but vet said it is hard to really go by them for insulin dosing and because I get such low numbers we are in a wait and check her mode, except she wants me to change her diet NOW! She seemed very concerned about the high Tri. and Cholesterol
 
Re: Extremely High Tryglycerides and Cholesterol. Need Advi

For what it's worth, we have had numbers that bad before...it was during a terrible two month flare of pancreatitis . The Purina DM brought it on (high in fat), thenI was syringe-feeding wellness at the time, which was just perpetuating the attack as it turned out (even higher in fat). She is terribly intolerant of fat with her pancreas damage. Is your cat vomiting or seem painful? Unfortunately we did have to go with a prescription, lowfat food with higher carbs--hopefully you won't have to do that. At the time my vet wasn't really worried about the triglycerides & cholesterol per se, just in what they represented. They are normal now, FWIW. Does your vet suspect pancreatitis? Has she done the snap test?

GOOD LUCK!! I hope you can keep her on the good food!!
 
Re: Extremely High Tryglycerides and Cholesterol. Need Advi

Have you looked at Merrick Cowboy Cookout? Low carb and a balance of fat and protein. This is much lower fat than most foods I've looked at. Only this flavor.

Claudia
 
Re: Extremely High Tryglycerides and Cholesterol. Need Advi

My vet was not concerned about high cholesterol. She said cats do not live long enough for chol to become a problem. Of course we are now looking at pancreatitis so maybe it was just a sign of other issues to come :?
 
Re: Extremely High Tryglycerides and Cholesterol. Need Advi

Does your vet suspect pancreatitis? Has she done the snap test?
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She is very concerned about her pancreas and I do not know what tests she ran but they were more than a basic panel. She knew the trigly. were high so I am hoping she tested it all. I will get the lab results in the mail in a day or so. She said her blood work for pancreas was normal. Everything was normal but the glucose, tri and chol. This was the case a year ago as well except the tri doubled from 800 to 1600. Does stress effect lipids?

Morgaine shows no sign of overt pancreatitis. She is acting perfectly normal except for increased thirst and urination. It is not excessive but it is more than normal and they are thinking early kidney disease although her blood work in that regard is perfect. BUN/CR/Phos all are normal and not high normal but right in the middle or less. That is a whole other matter.

Have you looked at Merrick Cowboy Cookout?
Click to expand...
I tried that along with about 100 other types of foods and she refused it. She wouldn't get near it. She is very picky so I finally found her Pro Plan chicken and liver adult and kitten. And she likes it a lot. I have thought about cutting the fat by adding hard boiled egg white but I have no idea how much egg white to add to a 3 oz can to bring the fat down to 35%. It is up at 55% now. The eggwhite is clear protein with only 17 cal. an eggwhite so it would do several things. It would increase her protein and cut the fat and the phos. if kidneys are an issue. Dr. Eliz. Hodgkins uses it for her kidney cats and explains it in her book, Your Cat. She seems to enjoy the eggwhite when I give her a little. Vet wanted me to put her on Purina OM with a carb of around 25%. No way!

Has anyone here fed FF Elegant Medleys? It has a slightly higher carb, around 10% for some and higher protein with fat at the 35% level. It contains wheat gluten but Morgaine has not been allergic to that in the past. It still may spike her numbers but she has no chance of the diabetes staying controlled without larger amounts of insulin if she ever needs that at all with those high carb diets. I just can't do that to her. Right now her numbers are elevated to the 170's. I am not yet giving insulin because the vet stress caused her to spike to 365 and she had never been that high. I am just wondering if she may come down back in the normal range. So I am testing her at various times throughout the day.
 
Re: Extremely High Tryglycerides and Cholesterol. Need Advi

How about mixing ProPlan chicken with a little of the Merrick Cowboy Cookout? Then gradually increase the amount as she tolerates it. Or microwave some chicken breast and add an ounce to the ProPlan.

Claudia
 
Re: Extremely High Tryglycerides and Cholesterol. Need Advi

cjleo said:
How about mixing ProPlan chicken with a little of the Merrick Cowboy Cookout? Then gradually increase the amount as she tolerates it. Or microwave some chicken breast and add an ounce to the ProPlan.

Claudia
Click to expand...

I need to get her on a lower fat diet, in the 30's. There has to be a way to accomplush this. FF Roasted Chicken and Roasted Turkey looks okay for this but I would love to know if anyone is using it. I may have to make my own food. I tried that and she rejected it.
 
Re: Extremely High Tryglycerides and Cholesterol. Need Advi

Simplest estimate:
If I have 55% in 3 oz, and add 3 oz egg white, the concentration falls by half to 27.5%

Let's see if this works correctly (feel free to check the math!):

? oz x .35% fat = 3 oz x .55% fat (you want the fat amount to stay the same)
? = 3 * .55 / .35 (cross multipy/divide to put unknown alone)
? = 4.7
4.7 - 3 = 1.7 oz of egg white to add

Hope this helps!
 
Re: Extremely High Tryglycerides and Cholesterol. Need Advi

Also, I recently found this while researching human vitamins.
It may help humans; it may or may not help animals, therefore, discuss this with your vet before implementing!!!!

from pantothenic acid (OTC) - Vitamin B5
"Hyperlipidemia
300 mg PO TID 10-25 mg PO qDay Pantethine"
and
"Nutrition
Sources: milk, lean beef, eggs, cabbage, broccoli, legumes
Function: required for intermediary metabolism of carbohydrates, proteins, and lipids; precursor of coenzyme A which is required for acetylation (acyl-group activation) reactions in gluconeogenesis, in the release of energy from carbohydrates, the synthesis and degradation of fatty acids, and the synthesis of sterols and steroid hormones, porphyrins, acetylcholine, and other compounds; essential for normal epithelial function"

THIS IS A HUMAN DOSE
It would need to be adjusted to the size of a cat

As a water-soluble vitamin, it is excreted mainly through the kidneys.
 
Re: Extremely High Tryglycerides and Cholesterol. Need Advi

Has anyone here fed FF Elegant Medleys? It has a slightly higher carb, around 10% for some and higher protein with fat at the 35% level.
Click to expand...

We are diet controlled, no longer on insulin. 2 medleys are in our wide variety of foods we rotate through, though the kittens prefer them so they get fed a little more often. We use the turkey primavera (clear grvy) and florentine (white grvy). They don't really affect Smokey much that I have seen. I was suspecting them of higher fat and told hubby to cut back on them. If they are lower, that is good, we have options she likes and can have if we are needing to reduce her fat intake.
 
Re: Extremely High Tryglycerides and Cholesterol. Need Advi

BJM said:
Simplest estimate:
If I have 55% in 3 oz, and add 3 oz egg white, the concentration falls by half to 27.5%

Let's see if this works correctly (feel free to check the math!):

? oz x .35% fat = 3 oz x .55% fat (you want the fat amount to stay the same)
? = 3 * .55 / .35 (cross multipy/divide to put unknown alone)
? = 4.7
4.7 - 3 = 1.7 oz of egg white to add

Hope this helps!
Click to expand...
Thank you for that. I will leave the math to you :lol: . I could do the same with chicken but then I am adding other things. I also would need to get some nutrients to make this a complete meal, correct? I am thinking of making her roast chicken, grinding it in my food processor and buying the nutrients to make that complete. I could add egg to that too and then mix it with her current food, which she loves.

Does anyone know how to convert the above to a dry matter basis? Math is not my strong suit. The vet said she needs a food that is 20% or less on a DMB.
 
Re: Extremely High Tryglycerides and Cholesterol. Need Advi

Dr Lisa Pierson's site has a recipe for home made food which is balanced.
Cat Info - Making Cat Food

There are some companies which make supplements to add to one's home made cat food - If you search this site, you'll find some listed, and of course, folks reading this who have a favorite or two will post the links.
 
Re: Extremely High Tryglycerides and Cholesterol. Need Advi

Were those dry matter numbers to start? Or were those % calories from fat, as in Binkys Page ?

If not, divide the wet value % by the % moisture - usually canned food is around 78% moisture to get dry matter oz.

3 oz @ .78 moisture = 2.3 oz dry matter
 
Re: Extremely High Tryglycerides and Cholesterol. Need Advi

BJM said:
Were those dry matter numbers to start? Or were those % calories from fat, as in Binkys Page ?

If not, divide the wet value % by the % moisture - usually canned food is around 78% moisture to get dry matter oz.

3 oz @ .78 moisture = 2.3 oz dry matter
Click to expand...

Those were from Janet and Binky's chart. I am not sure I understand the math. I know I don't. How do I figure the dry matter basis of the fats? In the guaranteed analylsis of these foods, which I know is inaccurate, I see some foods as 2% fat min as compared to 5.5% for what she is now eating. In the tables Janet did this converts to 54% for the current food and something like 34% for the food I am looking at. From my understanding, that 34% is under the 20% dry matter basis. This is so confusing to me but am I correct in these assumptions? I just don't get the math.

And thanks to all of you for your help. I am driving myself a little crazy with it all and really needed some support.
 
Re: Extremely High Tryglycerides and Cholesterol. Need Advi

If they were from Janet & Binkys charts, what you have is % calories from each of protein, fat, and carbohydrate - the math has been done for you. The can label is the wet basis.

Some of the FF pate varieties may have a better balance between fat & protein, while keeping the carbs down.

Keep in mind that % calories from protein + fat + carbohydrate = 100% ie., the only way to reduce one is to increase the other.
 
Re: Extremely High Tryglycerides and Cholesterol. Need Advi

BJM said:
If they were from Janet & Binkys charts, what you have is % calories from each of protein, fat, and carbohydrate - the math has been done for you. The can label is the wet basis.

Some of the FF pate varieties may have a better balance between fat & protein, while keeping the carbs down.

Keep in mind that % calories from protein + fat + carbohydrate = 100% ie., the only way to reduce one is to increase the other.
Click to expand...
I think I get this and if not, please advice. My vet said she wanted me to feed Morgaine 20% or less on a dry matter basis.

If the label says 3% fat (min) and there is 78% water then 3 divided by 22=14% fat on a dry matter basis. This food will qualify as low fat. Janet has this food listed as 34% of its calories from fat.

Is this correct? Or is there another step to figuring the fat% on a dry matter basis?

If this is the case then I could actually mix her current food with a lower fat food and it would still be under 20% on a DMB.
 
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