Ella 5/28 103

Status
Not open for further replies.

tpr

Member Since 2012
yesterday: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=71894

Good Morning LL,

So I've been presented with a beautiful string of blues but can't be home to monitor so I'm not too sure what to do. This always seems to happen as I need to go back to work. I'd love to shoot her the 1 u but just don't know what to expect.


Marjorie and Gracie said:
I think you have a pretty good feel for her, Tamara.....better than we do and you know your schedule. I'd like to see you make the decision tomorrow depending on what she is doing and how comfortable you are leaving her. :-D

Thanks for your note Marje. I actually don't think I have a good feel for her as I find her undpredictable and I'm really not too sure what to do.
 
Re: Ella 5/28 103 (advice)

and she's eating her first breffis...at this point her numbers aren't going to rise by stalling...i'm pretty sure of that:)
 
Re: Ella 5/28 103 (advice)

That was a really nice string of numbers last night.
If she's eating, I would shoot her insulin real soon.
 
Re: Ella 5/28 103 (advice)

the whole unit Dyana? I can't come home and her toes are in the greens.

and now that i've stalled i can't get a +2
 
Re: Ella 5/28 103 (advice)

tpr said:
the whole unit Dyana? I can't come home and her toes are in the greens.
It's up to you. What would make you feel more comfortable? Look at her ss and see what has happened in the past.

Now, that she's eaten food, any tests you get, will be food influenced. So, I think you need to make a decision and give her her insulin (if you're planning on shooting), so you can get your +1 and +2 before you leave the house.

What do you think?
 
Re: Ella 5/28 103 (advice)

tpr said:
the whole unit Dyana? I can't come home and her toes are in the greens.

and now that i've stalled i can't get a +2

I see you added something to the previous post.

Are you planning on skipping? If you want to skip, that is up to you. But, see what has happened in the past when you skipped.
 
Re: Ella 5/28 103 (advice)

I can't get a +2 at this point and I'm not that great at reading her ss other then the fact that I know she will either bounce or continue on to the greens.
 
Re: Ella 5/28 103 (advice)

Do you want to skip the shot?
She will probably be in the high numbers tonight. It's up to you.
 
Re: Ella 5/28 103 (advice)

Dyana,

I don't want to skip the shot but I don't know what she will do. This whole process is gut wrenching :cry:
I see such pretty numbers and I want to help her get to the good place but I just don't know what she will do.
 
Re: Ella 5/28 103 (advice)

tpr said:
Dyana,

I don't want to skip the shot but I don't know what she will do. This whole process is gut wrenching :cry:
I see such pretty numbers and I want to help her get to the good place but I just don't know what she will do.

I understand. I've been in your shoes before. It was long ago, but I still remember. I had someone helping me back then who would encourage me to at least get something in the shed. And leave out extra food, for just in case, and to make me feel better.

What BCS dose would you feel comfortable giving? I know you're not supposed to stall this long (as the stall acts like a dose reduction all by itself) and BCS, too, as that is kind of like a double reduction. I would give her a token dose at least.
 
Re: Ella 5/28 103 (advice)

just tested her again and she's at 106. I'm getting the feeling that you think it's safe to shoot the 1 u? I'm about half hour late on the shot now.
 
Re: Ella 5/28 103 (advice)

but she can't be trusted to eat...

i don't know .25 or .5

i can only get a +1 now
 
Re: Ella 5/28 103 (advice)

tpr said:
but she can't be trusted to eat...

i don't know .25 or .5

Okay, I would make the decision, and shoot the dose. I wouldn't keep stalling. Do you feel comfortable giving her 0.25 or 0.50?

Also, how long has it been since she ate?
 
Re: Ella 5/28 103 (advice)

45 minutes or so...I can only get a +1 now

what will a token dose do for her at this point if it acts as a reduction?
 
Re: Ella 5/28 103 (advice)

tpr said:
45 minutes or so...I can only get a +1 now

what will a token dose do for her at this point if it acts as a reduction?

It will give her some insulin for today, and it will put something into the shed for tonight.
 
Re: Ella 5/28 103 (advice)

I gave her .25.....an hour late...

I don't think I'm built for this type of thing. I worry to much. I feel very discouraged that I can't help her right now because I think she's trying hard to get better.

We're going to Montreal this weekend and Ronnie will be looking after Ella and the other kitties. I really don't want her to have to deal with drama and it will also make me feel better if I know she's in safe numbers.
 
Re: Ella 5/28 103 (advice)

tpr said:
I gave her .25.....an hour late...

I don't think I'm built for this type of thing. I worry to much. I feel very discouraged that I can't help her right now because I think she's trying hard to get better.

We're going to Montreal this weekend and Ronnie will be looking after Ella and the other kitties. I really don't want her to have to deal with drama and it will also make me feel better if I know she's in safe numbers.

I thought I remembered you said you were going away. We often have the petsitter give a reduced dose while you're away. Were you thinking of taking Ella with you at one time? I thought you were.
We can talk about the petsitter dose, when it gets closer to that time, maybe a couple days before you leave.
Will you petsitter be testing?
 
Re: Ella 5/28 103 (advice)

Yes...the pet sitter is another board member. Ronnie, of Ronnie and Luna.
 
Re: Ella 5/28 103 (advice)

I think you need to let go of the idea that Ella is going to be predictable. You're dealing with a cat. By their very nature, they are unpredictable. As soon as you think you have it nailed, they throw you a curve. There are no magic answers. What I think will help is if you have a sense of what you should do, present your logic. If the people here see that your thinking runs counter to their experience, people will tell you. It's the best way to get comfortable with making decisions. What are you going to do if Dyana is unavailable in the AM?
 
Re: Ella 5/28 103 (advice)

tpr said:
Yes...the pet sitter is another board member. Ronnie, of Ronnie and Luna.
That's wonderful. You are very lucky to have Ronnie sit of Ella.
 
Re: Ella 5/28 103 (advice)

I like drama @-)

As we discussed, I am urs friday thru sunday, for test/shots/feedings for Ella and her buddies. And the stinky boxes!
I am able to hang out til I know for sure she is good for the nite.
DBF will be on stand by to escort me home on our bikes later at nite - dbf will also be doing Luna's shots. It's all good!

Rest assured I will not leave her in low numbers. Ella is my #1 priority this weekend!
I will be opening her condo's to keep the girls updated and if I get stuck.


Besides, I'll have lots to read!
Tamara is writting a thesis for me!
:lol:
 
Re: Ella 5/28 103 (advice)

Dyana: I'm a very lucky to have Ronnie be with Ella and the gang:) Thanks again for supporting me this morning :smile:
Ronnie: I have yet to complete the thesis but I will try and keep it light:)

Sienne:
I hear where you are coming from but it's difficult for me to have a sense of what I should be doing when I have for the most part followed protocol and she is running her own show which has definitely confused me, and if I’m not mistaken, other experienced members as well. I realize and appreciate that you are all trying to present me with advice so that I can learn to deal with this more independently but Ella seems to be defying logic. One example of this happened just last week when it was suggested that I look at the protocol to help guide me in making a dosing decision. The numbers Ella gave me suggested that she needed an increase of .50 and so that's what I did and it ended up being too much. I realize that there are no magic answers and ECID but I feel I’m trying to use logic and it’s not working. I’m told over and over again that I need to be consistent with the dosing but with Ella’s history of dives and surprises I feel this is hard to do. I guess all I can do right now is lower her dose again in hopes that I can get her at a safe place while I wait until I can monitor more closely and collect more data.

Thanks for your continued support,

Tamara
 
Hi Tamara. I got your PM a while back, but haven't been able to be on the board. Sorry!

What I want you to do is look at Ella's spreadsheet. Ignore everything that happened before you stopped giving insulin and started over. That's ancient history at this point, so only look at what has happened after that. I see that you started on a low dose, followed the protocol to increase the dose, then she hit a breakthrough. That's exactly what is supposed to happen! Perfect, not unpredictable at all. Because you worked up to the dose according to protocol, when she hit her breakthrough on 1.5u you could KNOW for sure the dose was safe for her.

Then, in your spreadsheet review, you need to basically ignore 5/23 to 5/25 because there was some inconsistent dosing there. You started again on 1 unit on 5/25, numbers stayed high for a couple of days while the shed filled, and on cycle 6 she hit another breakthrough (right on schedule). She did drop a bit after PMPS, but what happened next? She didn't keep dropping and go low, she surfed. Perfect!

What I'm saying is that Ella is not being unpredictable, she is actually being pretty textbook right now when she is dosed consistently.

What does that mean? It means that in my opinion, you should (a) trust the protocol, and (b) trust your data. Ella is going to be dropping at shot time more often than not, and she will often keep dropping for another hour or two after the shot. It's her pattern, so you are going to have to shoot dropping numbers. But you also know that if you feed her, she can surf. And you know her dose is safe because you worked up to it safely. You're home until +2 most days, right? So if she is dropping after her shot, you have time to feed her to get her surfing. That is a luxury I never had, so take advantage.

Once you've done some studying of Ella's spreadsheet, then click on the spreadsheets of the people who have posted to you today, and especially the people who you think know their stuff. Look for similar patterns on their spreadsheets, and look for how they dealt with them. There is soooooooooo much to learn from others. It's why we're here, so we can take what we have learned from YEARS of helping other cats and try to use that knowledge to help others.

And you are definitely lucky to have Ronnie look after Ella for you. Now THERE is a spreadsheet to study if you want to see what drama looks like. I learned a lot from Luna. LOL!
 
Hello Libby,

Thank you for your comprehensive post. I'm grateful that you took the time to look at my ss and give me your thoughts.

I just had a nice visit with Ronnie and we both read your post together:) I promptly showed her the list of spreasheets that I keep handy to refer to in my documents folder and yes, they are the ones of the people who I feel know their stuff:)
I too believe that 1 u produced beautiful numbers. I was VERY happy to see the string of blues last night and was surprised that she didn't bounce from them by the morning. However, I was not prepared to shoot her 1 u on a dropping number towards the greens when I was not going to be home to monitor. I understand that I need to trust the protocol but I don't feel I have enough data to know where Ella will go in this particular situation. I would have felt way more comfortable if I had the opportunity to shoot a green to see the outcome as I haven't done that since we've slowly increased her insulin. If only she gave me such pretty numbers while I was home:)

On a side note, Ella is also constipated again and hasn't been producing her normal poops for a while now. She is also coughing up and dry heaving hariballs, which she has never done and I'm concerned that they have been a factor in the higher bg's that we have seen. I've read other member's posts that have said that constipation and hairballs effect bg so I feel I should take that into consideration. This is yet another reason why I'm reluctant to raise her dose.

I shot her.75u tonight and although I know Ronnie can handle low numbers, I'm not crazy about putting her in a sticky situation. I know she is prepared for anything but I also don't want to be worried when I'm 600km away. I will consider raising her back to 1u but gather that I must wait 6 cycles.

In the meantime, I will continue to ponder your post and look at other condos and ss's. Once again I do appreicate you and everyone else that takes time out of their personal lives to try and help both Ella and I. I thank everyone from the very bottom of my heart.
 
Here's how to get data that will make you more comfortable in the future:

1) Next time you get an unexpected preshot when you ARE going to be home, SHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!! I mean things like the 173 and 164 when you gave a BCS. Those would have been great opportunities to see whether she surfs from a lower preshot. Normally, the lower the preshot, the flatter the cycle is. This is how you can prove to yourself that Ella will be ok.

2) Next time you have a situation like today when you do not shoot full dose or shoot a tiny dose, get a +1 and +2 anyway (I know you probably had to leave at +1 today, but that +1 test would still have shown you whether the food put on the brakes or whether she was still dropping, or how fast). Same when you skipped on the 95 last week- additional tests after that would have shown you at what point she turned the corner and started to rise.

In the meantime, if you would like to set a no-shoot number for yourself for mornings, then go for it. You're the only one who can decide what dose to shoot at what number. I can't help with that, since I don't happen to believe in no-shoot numbers except in very special situations (I did skip sometimes with Jazzy, but she was a high dose cat with a ginormous shed). You'll want to work toward lowering your comfort zone, though, if you want Ella's numbers to eventually flatten out.
 
Hi Libby,

Thanks for your post regarding how to collect more data. I always get +1's and post the numbers in my condo but sometimes forget to put them in my ss. I will go back through my condos and meter and see if I can find the numbers as you're right, they will indeed help me and other see trends. My bad!

In regards to shooting low numbers, when I'm home I do:) The 173 bcs I gave her was in anticipation that the 1.50 was too high and since we were starting a new work week I thought I should be proactive since I wasn't going to be home. I don't think it was a poor choice considering we've seen such pretty numbers on 1u:)
The 164 BCS was a work day. I just happened to be home until +3 due to owed prep periods and was able to work something out with a colleague to come back for lunch. I guess I could have shot her the full dose that day but when I had to make that decision I wasn't confident that I could come home to check and that makes me feel safer. I can't wait until I'm home to shoot a low number to see where she goes:) I have a feeling it will have to be when I'm done school though, unless she presents me with something on the weekend.

I'm not sure if you're up to date on my condo as it sounds like you haven't been on the board lately but I decided that I want to find a safe dose, if at all possible, to keep her at until the end of June. When I'm off work I can shoot low numbers ALL the time which will be exactly what I want to do for Ella and I know it will be safe because I will be home to monitor. Here is the link to that condo on 5/24, the BCS work day, when I had questions about the shed and shared my decision regarding trying to find a 'safe' dose. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=71673

Thanks again for taking the time to give me some advice on how to feel more comfortable with all of this! :smile:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top