Eating and Food Transitioning Concerns

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SammyM

Member Since 2014
I am having the hardest time transitioning Elvis to any of the canned foods recommended that are both safe for diabetes and UT. [He has been a lifetime Hill's C/D user.] I can't tell you how many trips to the pet store I've made to try this one or that one....I know he doesn't like anything with fish (go figure) or turkey. It seems the only one he will at least lick is chicken, but it's mostly the liquid and very little of actually eating the solid stuff. I've tried all the suggested tricks . . . parmesan cheese, Fortiflax, warming, etc. etc....but he is just so stubborn. He barely eats half of the small 3 oz. cans and then the rest is wasted because he definitely won't touch it after it's been refrigerated and rewarmed. I've even tried real bits of chicken that I've cooked.

Treats have been another aggravation. Stopped the bad ones that he's loved....tried the Pet Natural's UT chews and someone suggested? Nothing! Won't even lick it. FINALLY I found one made by EVO that has no grain that he will at least tolerate a couple as a reward after his shot and BG sample.

This is all so exhausting and wearing on me....I barely get 3 hours a sleep at night because I still have to give him his insulin shot, take BGs every 4 hours, call the vet, etc. etc., but this not eating has me constantly worrying. I tried the Wellness CORE dry food for indoor cats that was suggested in one of Dr. Pierson's papers, but he takes two or three bites and quits. When I use to leave food out for him at night, in the morning his bowl would be empty. Not anymore. I think I've completely confused him (and me) now with what to put down, where to feed him (as I had to change his spot because my other cat eats everything in sight). She is 14 yrs. and reaping the rewards and is such a dichotomy to Elvis....she's been on dry food her entire life too, but has NOOOOO problem scarfing up anything I put down that Elvis won't eat. She licks the dish clean. Makes me so angry and sad that he won't. Since he's off the C/D, I've had no luck getting him to eat anything substantially....the vet had initially changed him to the W/D which he at least was eating, but when I read all the stuff here about the high carbs in that too, I decided to take him off that as well....now when I try to give him that, he won't eat that anymore either.

I could scream right now. His #s though seem better, but if he's not eating so I can't really get a good grasp of what's going on. We have him on 1.5 units b.i.d.,; he was at 3 units b.i.d. then upped to 4 (when he was on the C/D and then W/D), but since he's off the higher carb foods, with the little he has been eating, we dropped to 3 once a day, and now 1.5 twice a day.

Anything anyone can tell me to do to get this little boy to eat would make me eternally grateful. Is there something that induces hunger? Is there a 'can't miss' kind of food out there I should be getting. Pet Supermarket has a nice variety, but I noticed so many brands on that list that they don't carry and quite frankly, I've never even heard of. His weight seems to be maintaining, but I don't know how much longer that can last with the little he is eating. Can't imagine it's more than 50 calories a day.

Also, the chart says to keep foods under 250 on the phosphorous, but every food I look at has phosphorous in a % format...how do I convert?
 
Have you tried any of these?

Dry:
EVO cat & kitten (not sure on the phos)
Young again zero carb (phos .80%)

Canned:
3% Weruva Paw Lickin' chicken 196
4% Weruva On the Cat Wok 163

Weruva Cats in the Kitchen canned food
8% Funk in the Trunk 250
8% Lamb Burger-ini 236

If not I can send you some. I know its hard to find some of these foods in the stores.

I don't know if you have this chart yet, but if you look at the 4th row under calorie % thats the phos number
http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

When they did blood work to find out about the diabetes did they tell you the numbers for the kidneys? You might not need to really worry about the phos if Elvis doesnt have kidney issues per say. Maybe your vet was being over cautious? Blood work would be able to determine that. Also, I know you mention the fang missing, when was Elvis's last dental check up? I know thats part of the reason Hidey's BG is slightly higher right now because he has a bad tooth.
 
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Have you tried some raw food/raw meat? Katie doesn't like canned, but loves her raw.

As for treats, have you tried the freeze dried Chicken ? Halo or Pure Bites, most every cat absolutely goes crazy for them.

Also, you could try hand feeding the food to him, see if that will get "him going". I mean literally hand feeding, put some on your finger and see if he will eat it that way.

I know you are exhausted- hang in there. :YMHUG:

.
 
dirtybirdsoaps said:
Have you tried any of these?

Dry:
EVO cat & kitten (not sure on the phos)
Young again zero carb (phos .80%)

Canned:
3% Weruva Paw Lickin' chicken 196
4% Weruva On the Cat Wok 163

Weruva Cats in the Kitchen canned food
8% Funk in the Trunk 250
8% Lamb Burger-ini 236

If not I can send you some. I know its hard to find some of these foods in the stores.

I don't know if you have this chart yet, but if you look at the 4th row under calorie % thats the phos number
http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

When they did blood work to find out about the diabetes did they tell you the numbers for the kidneys? You might not need to really worry about the phos if Elvis doesnt have kidney issues per say. Maybe your vet was being over cautious? Blood work would be able to determine that. Also, I know you mention the fang missing, when was Elvis's last dental check up? I know thats part of the reason Hidey's BG is slightly higher right now because he has a bad tooth.

I most probably will have to try some different pet stores or Whole Foods. Now my other cast won't eat her dry food now that she's tasted the canned ones. Oy, all the money going down the drain just in different foods!

I did see that chart but it doesn't say how to convert the phosphorous # into a %. For instance, I have a sample bag of Friskies Grillers. The analysis shows Crude Protein 30%, Crude Fat 11%, Crude Fiber (which I can only assume is carbs since there is no separate listing for it) 4.5%, Moisture (and so on) and......Phosophorous 0.8%. That # is not in 100s so how can I determine what 0.8% amounts to? Is it less than 250, or more and how much more?????

I asked the vet about Elvis' kidney #s and he said they were perfectly fine and agreed with what you said that perhaps there's no need to be concerned about phosphorous right now. This is great news I think. Maybe now I can find a food that agees with him. Does this open up more selections in dry foods too. I just don't know if he will ever be an exclusive canned food feeder. Any suggestions here?

To be honest, Elvis has never had a dental check per se. Whether the vets over the years did a check our not I don't know. I've never asked for one and until only recently have I learned about the importance if one. Again, I don't know how long the fang has been gone, yet can't imagine the vet not noticing when I first brought him in last month. When I asked him he said he didn't notice it and that typically they check for dehydration by pulling the skin. Not sure I was happy with that answer.
 
katiesmom said:
.

Have you tried some raw food/raw meat? Katie doesn't like canned, but loves her raw.

As for treats, have you tried the freeze dried Chicken ? Halo or Pure Bites, most every cat absolutely goes crazy for them.

Also, you could try hand feeding the food to him, see if that will get "him going". I mean literally hand feeding, put some on your finger and see if he will eat it that way.

I know you are exhausted- hang in there. :YMHUG:

.
Katiesmom, I tried little shreds of fresh cooked chicken and even imported Italian canned tuna in olive oil, but to no avail. I've tried to get him to lick food or sauce off my finger too, but if it doesn't pass his smell test first, he won't lick. I will look for those treats though. And maybe now that I don't have to be as concerned with the phosphorous levels I'll find the right food. One good thing is he could care less about variety, once he eats something he likes he'll eat it all the time. Is just finding the right one now.

I am exhausted but also hanging in there....he's worth it!
 
I haven't figured out how to translate the percentage to a number although from what I gather you want to be about .50% for phos or less with kidney issues. I only have that idea because I was trying to research kidney disease for my parents cat, and was trying to find food that ALL of their cats could eat.

If your vet says his kidney numbers are fine thats great for the canned food, but doesnt really open many options still on the dry.
On here it seems the only dry that everyone agrees on thats low carb is the EVO cat & kitten, Young again zero carb, and stella & chewys freeze dried. I have tried the EVO and the Young again. I am sort of in the same boat as you. Hidey has always had dry food. He was a grazer and I'd leave a bunch of dry out all day and at night I'd split a can of canned food at night. Now I have switched to splitting a 6 oz can between 3 cats in the morning and at night, and have gotten them down to 1/8 c each a day of the Young again dry food. Hidey likes his dry food and I felt bad taking it away, so I tried the EVO he did fine when I was mixing it with his old food but didnt do good when I went 100% with it. The Young again is pricey but I am feeding him less of it, and having him eat more canned food. I know with Hidey the hard time I find is with the canned as well, but thats because he's VERY picky when it comes to texture. I have some EVO I can send you that they won't eat if you want to give that a try....I think I have like 5 lbs of it, maybe more. I can also send you some young again zero carb, also if you email them they'll send you a sample as well.

Also my cats LOVE the halo freeze dried treats, especially the chicken. I find them the cheapest on chewy.com
http://www.chewy.com/dog/halo-liv-littl ... 0/dp/29214
 
dirtybirdsoaps said:
I haven't figured out how to translate the percentage to a number although from what I gather you want to be about .50% for phos or less with kidney issues. I only have that idea because I was trying to research kidney disease for my parents cat, and was trying to find food that ALL of their cats could eat.

If your vet says his kidney numbers are fine thats great for the canned food, but doesnt really open many options still on the dry.
On here it seems the only dry that everyone agrees on thats low carb is the EVO cat & kitten, Young again zero carb, and stella & chewys freeze dried. I have tried the EVO and the Young again. I am sort of in the same boat as you. Hidey has always had dry food. He was a grazer and I'd leave a bunch of dry out all day and at night I'd split a can of canned food at night. Now I have switched to splitting a 6 oz can between 3 cats in the morning and at night, and have gotten them down to 1/8 c each a day of the Young again dry food. Hidey likes his dry food and I felt bad taking it away, so I tried the EVO he did fine when I was mixing it with his old food but didnt do good when I went 100% with it. The Young again is pricey but I am feeding him less of it, and having him eat more canned food. I know with Hidey the hard time I find is with the canned as well, but thats because he's VERY picky when it comes to texture. I have some EVO I can send you that they won't eat if you want to give that a try....I think I have like 5 lbs of it, maybe more. I can also send you some young again zero carb, also if you email them they'll send you a sample as well.

Also my cats LOVE the halo freeze dried treats, especially the chicken. I find them the cheapest on chewy.com
http://www.chewy.com/dog/halo-liv-littl ... 0/dp/29214

Thanks for the great info. How much do you want for the EVO?? So far I've been fortunate with places that will take opened foods back with a receipt, but of course I can't do that with cans. :-) I would be interested in trying the EVO.....how much to ship too? There is a pet store fairly close by that sells EVO; let me check with them to see if they have a smaller bag I could try, and if they would accept a return if my cat won't eat it. Thank you for such a kind offer; I'll let you know.

Do you know if a higher phosphorous count makes a food more tasty? It would be great if I could find something that tastes like the C/D he was so use to, without all the carbs. A daunting task I'm sure.
 
Elvis said:
katiesmom said:
.

Have you tried some raw food/raw meat? Katie doesn't like canned, but loves her raw.

As for treats, have you tried the freeze dried Chicken ? Halo or Pure Bites, most every cat absolutely goes crazy for them.

Also, you could try hand feeding the food to him, see if that will get "him going". I mean literally hand feeding, put some on your finger and see if he will eat it that way.

I know you are exhausted- hang in there. :YMHUG:

.
Katiesmom, I tried little shreds of fresh cooked chicken and even imported Italian canned tuna in olive oil, but to no avail. I've tried to get him to lick food or sauce off my finger too, but if it doesn't pass his smell test first, he won't lick. I will look for those treats though. And maybe now that I don't have to be as concerned with the phosphorous levels I'll find the right food. One good thing is he could care less about variety, once he eats something he likes he'll eat it all the time. Is just finding the right one now.

I am exhausted but also hanging in there....he's worth it!

The Pure Bites freeze dried chicken someone mentioned is available at Petco. The Halo I buy online.

Try uncooked chicken- RAW, dark meat is better, tastier, I believe...you never know ;-) .
 
Elvis said:
dirtybirdsoaps said:
I haven't figured out how to translate the percentage to a number although from what I gather you want to be about .50% for phos or less with kidney issues. I only have that idea because I was trying to research kidney disease for my parents cat, and was trying to find food that ALL of their cats could eat.

If your vet says his kidney numbers are fine thats great for the canned food, but doesnt really open many options still on the dry.
On here it seems the only dry that everyone agrees on thats low carb is the EVO cat & kitten, Young again zero carb, and stella & chewys freeze dried. I have tried the EVO and the Young again. I am sort of in the same boat as you. Hidey has always had dry food. He was a grazer and I'd leave a bunch of dry out all day and at night I'd split a can of canned food at night. Now I have switched to splitting a 6 oz can between 3 cats in the morning and at night, and have gotten them down to 1/8 c each a day of the Young again dry food. Hidey likes his dry food and I felt bad taking it away, so I tried the EVO he did fine when I was mixing it with his old food but didnt do good when I went 100% with it. The Young again is pricey but I am feeding him less of it, and having him eat more canned food. I know with Hidey the hard time I find is with the canned as well, but thats because he's VERY picky when it comes to texture. I have some EVO I can send you that they won't eat if you want to give that a try....I think I have like 5 lbs of it, maybe more. I can also send you some young again zero carb, also if you email them they'll send you a sample as well.

Also my cats LOVE the halo freeze dried treats, especially the chicken. I find them the cheapest on chewy.com
http://www.chewy.com/dog/halo-liv-littl ... 0/dp/29214

Thanks for the great info. How much do you want for the EVO?? So far I've been fortunate with places that will take opened foods back with a receipt, but of course I can't do that with cans. :-) I would be interested in trying the EVO.....how much to ship too? There is a pet store fairly close by that sells EVO; let me check with them to see if they have a smaller bag I could try, and if they would accept a return if my cat won't eat it. Thank you for such a kind offer; I'll let you know.

Do you know if a higher phosphorous count makes a food more tasty? It would be great if I could find something that tastes like the C/D he was so use to, without all the carbs. A daunting task I'm sure.

No cost at all, just PM me your address and I'll send it out. I'm trying to pay it forward the best I can from all the great help I've gotten on this site :) not to mention I have it just sitting in the other room since I didn't want to throw it away. Also have you been trying to gradually add the food say 50/50? Sometimes it's easier to start sneaking it in so they get used to the flavor.
 
We wish there was a magic food that would be appealing to all kitties, all the time. Sadly, there is not and we just have to keep trying.

I know what you mean about your cat not liking the fish flavors. My Wink doesn't like fishy tasting stuff either.

Will Elvis eat his old C/d canned food? If so, perhaps a very sloooooowwww transition to another food.
For example, mix 1 teaspoon new food into old, stir to mix and feed. Each day, increase amount of new food and decrease amount of old food.

Often, adding a bit more water to the food, to make a gravy is appealing to many cats. Think applesauce consistency after you have mixed the water into the canned food.
 
Deb & Wink said:
We wish there was a magic food that would be appealing to all kitties, all the time. Sadly, there is not and we just have to keep trying.

I know what you mean about your cat not liking the fish flavors. My Wink doesn't like fishy tasting stuff either.

Will Elvis eat his old C/d canned food? If so, perhaps a very sloooooowwww transition to another food.
For example, mix 1 teaspoon new food into old, stir to mix and feed. Each day, increase amount of new food and decrease amount of old food.

Often, adding a bit more water to the food, to make a gravy is appealing to many cats. Think applesauce consistency after you have mixed the water into the canned food.
I think I tried the C/D canned once upon a time and he wasn't so thrilled with that either, but I could give it a go again. It seems that he mostly will just lick all the sauce or liquid off no matter which canned food I put down (except fishy ones which he won't touch at all) and leave the pieces of food. I gave him the MAX venison one tonight and I thought I had a winner because he started licking and then sat down in front of the bowl instead of just standing at it a minute or two. He was at it it seemed longer than any other so far, but when he walked away I checked the dish and all the sauce was lapped up but the little square pieces of venison were pretty much all there. I thought at first that maybe he does have teeth problems, but that didn't make sense because he has no problem with the hard crunchy stuff.

The slow transition is a good idea. I put down a bowl of hard with a mixture of the Wellness CORE, Hill's W/D, and Friskies Grillers and it was the most he's eaten of anything in two days. Hopefully they'll be one canned he'll like so I can start weening him completely off the dry.
 
Well, I'm back to offering you a look see at these transitioning tips. I think I tried almost all of these with my Wink, to get him to switch to wet food. He was a die hard dry food addict. Still is if the truth be told but he's out of luck because there is no longer any dry cat food in the house. It took me 6 weeks to transition my Wink, struggling all along the way. Some cats take longer. Persistence and patience are keys here.

Have you tried the "chip and dip" trick? Take a piece of the dry food and dip it into the canned food. Do this for maybe a dozen pieces. Put these in a separate dish and feed first. Give it at least 20-30 minutes to see if Elvis will eat them. Then go ahead and put down some of his regular dry food.

Have you tried heating up the wet food, to just warm against your skin? Try a tiny bit heated up. It brings out the aroma of the food and can be more appealing.

If he doesn't like the chunks of food, have you tried the pate style?

You said he likes to lap up all the gravy. If you take away his water dish and make a soupy version of the pate food as his water source, he'll lap up some of the food along with the water. Especially if you are still feeding the dry food, he'll be thirsty after eating that and need a drink. Be sure he does drink some of that watery food mixture. You don't want him to get dehydrated if he won't touch the soupy food/water mix.

Do you use his natural hunger drive to help out? If you free feed, he's never particularly hungry and figures he doesn't need to try the wet food. If you meal feed, that helps with the transition.

What else did I use? Smorgasboard. Offered 2-3 different flavors to find one he liked.

Toppers on the wet food, like smashed up crumbles of the dry food or my Winks absolute favorite, Halo Liv-a-little freeze dried chicken treats crumbled on top of his food. He'd have to like up some of the food to get at the crumbles. He'd only eat the top layer so I had to let him eat that and then crumble another bit of treat on the next layer. Sometimes, it was 3-5 crumbles of those freeze dried treats to get him to heat 0.75 to 1.5 ounces of food.
 
Try the Orijen Original cat treats. My sugar just shook his head at every other dehydrated treats suggested until I found these. Now he sits at the testing spot waiting for his test and shoot so he can have three of them. I get them at chewy.com. My pet nutrition center carries them but they are not good at checking inventory. They have been out of them for three months now so I just get them online.

My older girl civvies are on Wellness Core Grain Free canned foods - low phosphorus and 8% carb. They love it saturated with water. They are also on a raw food diet with added pho binder.
 
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