? Drop to below 40 after eating mid-day meal

[Bibi and Kira]

Bibi ate 1/4 can LC at approx. 7:45am, got 1.25 Lantus at 8:30 am, when BG was approx 200. She fell steadily throughout the day including after eating 1/4 can LC at approx. 12:00pm. At noon she was 63, at 2:30 she was below 40. What the heck? I"m assuming this means dose reduction. Her numbers seem to be astonishingly unpredictable (shouldn't they go up after eating a small meal?) and I literally just had my first successful attempt at home-testing today (because we are losing the Libre on Friday). I don't know how I"m going to keep her safe at this rate.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Your spreadsheet is missing data from July 30th until today. Could you put at least the dosages in if you don't have the BG numbers.

Good job testing and catching those 40's! Yes, reduce her dose down to 1 unit. And feed the girl some higher carb food or food with honey/karo on it. You want her above 50. She's been lingering in the 40's for too long.

As the insulin is heading towards nadir, it is at it's strongest and overcoming any carbs eaten. That is why you need to feed higher carb food.

You will keep her safe by testing.

 

[Sue and Luci]

Which protocol are you following? SLGS or TR?

I'd say that's pretty typical to hit the nadir (lowest point) 4+, 6+ ...curious why you didn't get a test at 5+. I would have been alarmed at the 48 at 4+, fed her and then tested her soon after to see if the food is helping to get her to turn around. If not, I would have added a little more medium or high carb to her dish - and tested again to see if the food is having any impact. You said a 'small meal', what was that?

So happy to hear you're successful at home testing. I'd definitely reduce tonight. She's giving you a sign that she's reached her limit at this point for the insulin. And you're going to need to test frequently tonight - to make sure that the does this evening won't take her too low again. Do you have your hypo kit ready?

 

[Bibi and Kira]

Your spreadsheet is missing data from July 30th until today. Could you put at least the dosages in if you don't have the BG numbers.

Good job testing and catching those 40's! Yes, reduce her dose down to 1 unit. And feed the girl some higher carb food or food with honey/karo on it. You want her above 50. She's been lingering in the 40's for too long.

As the insulin is heading towards nadir, it is at it's strongest and overcoming any carbs eaten. That is why you need to feed higher carb food.

You will keep her safe by testing.

Thanks. Okay, I will try to fill in as much as I can of SS later today. I gave her few spoonfuls of FF HC canned when I discovered how low she was. She's in the 60s now. Will definitely reduce to 1 unit tonight. At this point being brand new to testing I have serious doubts about being able to do it as often as needed. It's taken over a week of "desensitization" (aka bribing with yummy LC treats) just to be able to get my first drop of blood this afternoon. But anyway it's a start.

 

[Sue and Luci]

Thanks. Okay, I will try to fill in as much as I can of SS later today. I gave her few spoonfuls of FF HC canned when I discovered how low she was. She's in the 60s now. Will definitely reduce to 1 unit tonight. At this point being brand new to testing I have serious doubts about being able to do it as often as needed. It's taken over a week of "desensitization" (aka bribing with yummy LC treats) just to be able to get my first drop of blood this afternoon. But anyway it's a start.

I applaud you for it taking only a week! My first few weeks...or was it months... were just awful. Took two of us to hold her in position so I could clumsily poke her ear - sometimes several times before I got a drop - right - to get it on the strip. I'd fumble the device, fumble her ear...OMG I was a train wreck! But finally after repeated attempts - I'd tell her (and myself) that her life depended on me being able to do this! Each time it got a little better...until now - Luci waltzes into the kitchen - sometimes she's already on the testing towel waiting for me - and she purrs through the whole thing. It was always about the snack she got - whether I was successful or not, she got her treat. So I can say, with confidence that you'll get this! In no time at all...you'll be an expert on getting that little drop and your kitty will be cooperative because cats seem to love routines. Always go to the same place, get your stuff together; I use a rice filled baby sock that I warm for 22 seconds in the microwave to support her ear - and soon it'll be the routine and it'll get so much easier. Yes, a lot of testing is required...but it's all worth it to help your furbaby get better.

Hang in there...we're all here for you

 

[Bibi and Kira]

Which protocol are you following? SLGS or TR?

I'd say that's pretty typical to hit the nadir (lowest point) 4+, 6+ ...curious why you didn't get a test at 5+. I would have been alarmed at the 48 at 4+, fed her and then tested her soon after to see if the food is helping to get her to turn around. If not, I would have added a little more medium or high carb to her dish - and tested again to see if the food is having any impact. You said a 'small meal', what was that?

So happy to hear you're successful at home testing. I'd definitely reduce tonight. She's giving you a sign that she's reached her limit at this point for the insulin. And you're going to need to test frequently tonight - to make sure that the does this evening won't take her too low again. Do you have your hypo kit ready?

SLGS. I guess I didn't test at +5 because I thought her noon meal (1/4 canned LC) would make her BG rise as it normally does, especially since her noon meal is just food, no insulin. So much for that theory! Yes you're right I should've been on top of the fact that is was going down all morning and forestalled it sooner. Yes, we have HC food and Karo syrup ready. Will reduce tonight and test often. Thanks.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

But anyway it's a start.

Yes, and couldn't have come at a better time! I used to be queasy at the sight of blood, lots of tears when I started. Neko felt my fear, but eventually she would come running when I picked up the test kit. Or she would sit in the test spot and tell me she needed testing when she was low. Cats are smart.

 

[Bibi and Kira]

I applaud you for it taking only a week! My first few weeks...or was it months... were just awful. Took two of us to hold her in position so I could clumsily poke her ear - sometimes several times before I got a drop - right - to get it on the strip. I'd fumble the device, fumble her ear...OMG I was a train wreck! But finally after repeated attempts - I'd tell her (and myself) that her life depended on me being able to do this! Each time it got a little better...until now - Luci waltzes into the kitchen - sometimes she's already on the testing towel waiting for me - and she purrs through the whole thing. It was always about the snack she got - whether I was successful or not, she got her treat. So I can say, with confidence that you'll get this! In no time at all...you'll be an expert on getting that little drop and your kitty will be cooperative because cats seem to love routines. Always go to the same place, get your stuff together; I use a rice filled baby sock that I warm for 22 seconds in the microwave to support her ear - and soon it'll be the routine and it'll get so much easier. Yes, a lot of testing is required...but it's all worth it to help your furbaby get better.

Hang in there...we're all here for you

Thanks for the support. I'm so glad to know I'm not the only one! Can I ask, is your testing place on the floor or raised up on something that makes it a bit harder for her to get away (not that it sounds like she tries to at this point)? Today's first successful attempt was on the bed so I don't know if I should just keep bringing her there to do it each time, or just find her wherever she is? Do you then feed her in the same place where you just tested her?

 

[Sue and Luci]

Yes you're right I should've been on top of the fact that is was going down all morning and forestalled it sooner. Y

Don't beat yourself up...you've only been at this a few days! But now you know...the tricky ways of the cat! And when you get the 'signal' how to respond...

Cats are totally unpredictable anyway...but maybe Bibi has a better vibe and will continue to give you good signs...sometimes they kinda sneak up on you too...so beware...

 

[Bibi and Kira]

Yes, and couldn't have come at a better time! I used to be queasy at the sight of blood, lots of tears when I started. Neko felt my fear, but eventually she would come running when I picked up the test kit. Or she would sit in the test spot and tell me she needed testing when she was low. Cats are smart.

Wow, that IS a smart cat! Somehow I can't imagine Bibi ever coming running to be tested, but you never know!

 

[Bibi and Kira]

Don't beat yourself up...you've only been at this a few days! But now you know...the tricky ways of the cat! And when you get the 'signal' how to respond...

Cats are totally unpredictable anyway...but maybe Bibi has a better vibe and will continue to give you good signs...sometimes they kinda sneak up on you too...so beware...

Thanks!

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Can I ask, is your testing place on the floor or raised up on something that makes it a bit harder for her to get away (not that it sounds like she tries to at this point)?

Whatever is convenient for you. Neko had black ears so I wanted a place that had good overhead light. So she sat on my lap under an overhead light to start. We didn't always test in the same place. Sometimes I just tested her in her bed, sometimes on the floor.

 

[Bibi and Kira]

I applaud you for it taking only a week! My first few weeks...or was it months... were just awful. Took two of us to hold her in position so I could clumsily poke her ear - sometimes several times before I got a drop - right - to get it on the strip. I'd fumble the device, fumble her ear...OMG I was a train wreck! But finally after repeated attempts - I'd tell her (and myself) that her life depended on me being able to do this! Each time it got a little better...until now - Luci waltzes into the kitchen - sometimes she's already on the testing towel waiting for me - and she purrs through the whole thing. It was always about the snack she got - whether I was successful or not, she got her treat. So I can say, with confidence that you'll get this! In no time at all...you'll be an expert on getting that little drop and your kitty will be cooperative because cats seem to love routines. Always go to the same place, get your stuff together; I use a rice filled baby sock that I warm for 22 seconds in the microwave to support her ear - and soon it'll be the routine and it'll get so much easier. Yes, a lot of testing is required...but it's all worth it to help your furbaby get better.

Hang in there...we're all here for you

Btw, How often do you test and at what points (AMPS, PMPS, nadir, other?) and do you give her just one LC treat each time, or several? What treats do you use? Do you give the treats only before testing, or, after, or both? Is it worth picking her up and putting her on the bed each time I test? She doesn't really like being picked up, but it's much easier for me, and she definitely does like treats. Thanks.

 

[Bibi and Kira]

Whatever is convenient for you. Neko had black ears so I wanted a place that had good overhead light. So she sat on my lap under an overhead light to start. We didn't always test in the same place. Sometimes I just tested her in her bed, sometimes on the floor.

Apologies, I've been using the present tense with reference to Neko. Thanks for sharing your experience with Neko to help newbies like me

 

[Wendy&Neko]

The amount you test varies a bit based on what the cycle is doing. Always do both AM and PM preshots. Nadir times can also vary, but getting a test somewhere in the +4 to +7 is good data during the day, plus one before you turn out the lights at night. My kitties (yes, the civvie knew the drill too), were always ready for that last treat of the night once I started brushing my teeth. I gave freeze dried all meat treats. Ideally you want something that is zero carb. I gave the treat after the test. Some of the videos show giving treats before hand to keep kitty distracted. I used to give several treats when giving fluids for that purpose. Will Bibi jump up for treats? Try doing that without pokes first.

 

[J.J. and Phoebe Squeak]

Hi, I just wanted to chime in to say that I'm still getting the hang of testing too, but it has gotten easier. 2 things that help me are warming her ears -- I use rice & catnip in a baby sock and heat it in the microwave, and spraying Feliway spray on her testing towel a few minutes before we actually do the test. I wish you all the best! Hang in there! The people on this site are amazing and they have tons of experience and have helped me with many different issues.

 

[Krystina & Nelli]

I can't imagine Bibi ever coming running to be tested,

Don’t be surprised!

 

[Sue and Luci]

Can I ask, is your testing place on the floor or raised up on something that makes it a bit harder for her to get away (not that it sounds like she tries to at this point)?

I poke Luci on my kitchen counter - it's an island - so I have access on three sides to her - I use the same towel all the time for her to lay on and keep all her supplies in a kit - handy nearby. I am too old to be getting down on the floor and I need all the light I can get. Luci has black ears so it's pretty hard for me to even see the little red drop in all that dark fur - so the lighting is really good there, I can lean over the counter and give her some love, a little massage with the warmed rice filled sock and then move the sock under her ear to support it and 'ping' there's the little poke and I have the strip in the meter waiting for me to touch it to that little drop - I use a OneDrop subscription meter/strips and it requires the tiniest drop of blood so I don't have to get a very large drop - some meters need a bigger drop to work.

She doesn't really like being picked up, but it's much easier for me, and she definitely does like treats

Luci was never a lap cat and did not much care for all the 'handling' but it was easier for me to see what I'm doing so each time I put her on the testing towel and tried to test - whether I actually did or not and whether or not I actually got any blood - she earned a treat just by sticking around. I give her Orijen all natural meat - one treat per session OR Young Again Zero cat treats - again, just one per visit and I'd always pet her and talk nice to her...so she wouldn't think it was always going to be a torture session - sometimes it was just about a treat and some loving...she finally got the hang of it. This her 'laying in wait' - on the counter in our condo in Florida and on the counter in our kitchen here in Michigan - sometimes she gets a bit ahead of me and doesn't wait for me to get things ready for her!

 

[Olive & Paula]

I use a throw rug on kitchen table. Ollie didn't sit still so I could move the rug around to the position that suited me. Then there are times I test her when she laying on kitchen chair. And when sleeping on couch. Pretty much anywhere.

 

[Bibi and Kira]

The amount you test varies a bit based on what the cycle is doing. Always do both AM and PM preshots. Nadir times can also vary, but getting a test somewhere in the +4 to +7 is good data during the day, plus one before you turn out the lights at night. My kitties (yes, the civvie knew the drill too), were always ready for that last treat of the night once I started brushing my teeth. I gave freeze dried all meat treats. Ideally you want something that is zero carb. I gave the treat after the test. Some of the videos show giving treats before hand to keep kitty distracted. I used to give several treats when giving fluids for that purpose. Will Bibi jump up for treats? Try doing that without pokes first.

Bibi doesn't jump anymore due to age, weight and arthritis but maybe I can get her to climb up on some surface (bed, counter, couch) where it will be easier for me to test her. Yes will try that without pokes first. Thank you.

 

[Bibi and Kira]

I use a throw rug on kitchen table. Ollie didn't sit still so I could move the rug around to the position that suited me. Then there are times I test her when she laying on kitchen chair. And when sleeping on couch. Pretty much anywhere.

Thanks, that's good to know testing in different spots can work.

 

[Dandelion]

This is how Butternut is during testing. I use his paw pads and thank the universe I don't have poke his ears!

 

[Bibi and Kira]

I poke Luci on my kitchen counter - it's an island - so I have access on three sides to her - I use the same towel all the time for her to lay on and keep all her supplies in a kit - handy nearby. I am too old to be getting down on the floor and I need all the light I can get. Luci has black ears so it's pretty hard for me to even see the little red drop in all that dark fur - so the lighting is really good there, I can lean over the counter and give her some love, a little massage with the warmed rice filled sock and then move the sock under her ear to support it and 'ping' there's the little poke and I have the strip in the meter waiting for me to touch it to that little drop - I use a OneDrop subscription meter/strips and it requires the tiniest drop of blood so I don't have to get a very large drop - some meters need a bigger drop to work.



Luci was never a lap cat and did not much care for all the 'handling' but it was easier for me to see what I'm doing so each time I put her on the testing towel and tried to test - whether I actually did or not and whether or not I actually got any blood - she earned a treat just by sticking around. I give her Orijen all natural meat - one treat per session OR Young Again Zero cat treats - again, just one per visit and I'd always pet her and talk nice to her...so she wouldn't think it was always going to be a torture session - sometimes it was just about a treat and some loving...she finally got the hang of it. This her 'laying in wait' - on the counter in our condo in Florida and on the counter in our kitchen here in Michigan - sometimes she gets a bit ahead of me and doesn't wait for me to get things ready for her!

View attachment 46925
View attachment 46926

That would be ideal for me if I could test her up on the kitchen counter like you did with Luci. Bibi can't jump anymore so I'd have to lift her or "lure" her to climb up on surface using pet steps or stool.

 

[Bibi and Kira]

Hi, I just wanted to chime in to say that I'm still getting the hang of testing too, but it has gotten easier. 2 things that help me are warming her ears -- I use rice & catnip in a baby sock and heat it in the microwave, and spraying Feliway spray on her testing towel a few minutes before we actually do the test. I wish you all the best! Hang in there! The people on this site are amazing and they have tons of experience and have helped me with many different issues.

Thanks for the tips. I'm trying the rice in the sock thing, and maybe I'll try Feliway too.

 

[Bibi and Kira]

View attachment 46930
This is how Butternut is during testing. I use his paw pads and thank the universe I don't have poke his ears!

Wow, that's an amazingly mellow cat if that's how he is during testing!

 

[tiffmaxee]

I used to test Max in the kitchen sink. It was the right height for me. I liked having one spot so he knew what was about to happen. Treats made it easy. That’s how he got used to daily fluids as well.

 

[Dandelion]

Wow, that's an amazingly mellow cat if that's how he is during testing!

Sometimes he'll lift his head but most of the time doesn't bother. If he's purring, he doesn't stop. I use a fine gauge lancet and don't drive it too deep.

 

[Bibi and Kira]

I used to test Max in the kitchen sink. It was the right height for me. I liked having one spot so he knew what was about to happen. Treats made it easy. That’s how he got used to daily fluids as well.

I don't know if Bibi's going to resent me picking her up and plunking her somewhere for the testing. Will have to try things and see.

I don't know if I should start a new thread for the following Beginning Home Tester Questions, cause I have a lot of them:
What is the Sequence of Testing, Feeding, and Shooting? You give a treat(s) for testing, then feed right after testing, then shoot sometime after they've eaten? Or since it's meal time already, give them their meal for testing and then just let them finish it when you're done testing? Or will that create a negative association between testing and mealtime? This is what happened when we tried to shoot right after placing her food bowl down. She started balking at going to her food dish at all, so we've had to separate the two and wait a while after she eats before we shoot. Does it matter how much time passes between testing and shooting or are we just making sure number's not too low to shoot? In other words even if we feed right after testing, and then shoot right after or shortly after eating (say within 30 mins?) obviously her number's not going to be the same as it was when we tested over half an hour ago. But we're not going to shoot her right after testing and before eating, right?

 

[Bibi and Kira]

Sometimes he'll lift his head but most of the time doesn't bother. If he's purring, he doesn't stop. I use a fine gauge lancet and don't drive it too deep.

Lucky you! What gauge lancet do you use now, what gauge did you start at, and how long did it take before you could go to a finer gauge? Thanks.

 

[Bibi and Kira]

Thanks for the tips. I'm trying the rice in the sock thing, and maybe I'll try Feliway too.

Hi, I just wanted to chime in to say that I'm still getting the hang of testing too, but it has gotten easier. 2 things that help me are warming her ears -- I use rice & catnip in a baby sock and heat it in the microwave, and spraying Feliway spray on her testing towel a few minutes before we actually do the test. I wish you all the best! Hang in there! The people on this site are amazing and they have tons of experience and have helped me with many different issues.

Also, which treats or food do you find work best for testing? And when you're testing for shooting, do you just give one or two treats for testing, and then feed her right away, and then shoot right after feeding, or what sequence works best for you?

 

[Dandelion]

Lucky you! What gauge lancet do you use now, what gauge did you start at, and how long did it take before you could go to a finer gauge? Thanks.

I currently use Walmart Relion 30ga lancets and have used less fine gauge now and then, maybe 29. I've used 30 ga for years and probably started with 30. I bought 33ga micro thin lancets last week to try but I don't like them - have to squeeze his pad to get the blood - so we're sticking with 30ga. He WILL wake up and fuss if I squeeze his feet. No squeezes.

I would choose the finest gauge that allows you to get a sufficient drop of blood for sampling.

 

[Bibi and Kira]

I currently use Walmart Relion 30ga lancets and have used less fine gauge now and then, maybe 29. I've used 30 ga for years and probably started with 30. I bought 33ga micro thin lancets last week to try but I don't like them - have to squeeze his pad to get the blood - so we're sticking with 30ga. He WILL wake up and fuss if I squeeze his feet. No squeezes.

I would choose the finest gauge that allows you to get a sufficient drop of blood for sampling.

Thanks. I'm starting with a 28 and even with that size and warming with rice-sock it takes me several pokes to get blood so maybe her ears will take a while to learn how to bleed. And also probably because I don't really know what I"m doing yet, haha. Poor Bibi.

 

[Sue and Luci]

don't know if Bibi's going to resent me picking her up and plunking her somewhere for the testing.

If you have a favorite location that you think will work best for both of you - pick her up and gently set her there - give her a treat and some petting/loving...and let her go on about her business. You may need to do that several times a day - always make it as pleasant as possible - even if it's only for a brief visit. The first test of the day - the AM test - might be done in this location - give her a treat after the test - each time - and then if she eats it or not - let her have her meal - then shoot the insulin - and give another treat - by this I mean one small pea-sized bit of high protein of one kind or another.

I presume you're reading thru the stickies - there's a ton of info and I know it's sometimes confusion about what to do first...but the order is Test / Feed /Shoot (if within safe numbers)

Does it matter how much time passes between testing and shooting or are we just making sure number's not too low to shoot? In other words even if we feed right after testing, and then shoot right after or shortly after eating (say within 30 mins?)

I always put Luci in a confined area with her food to allow me time to get her insulin ready - and she eats most of the time; sometimes she just thinks she shouldn't be in the pantry with the door closed - she waits for 15 minutes - and then gets her shot. Sometimes she's being difficult and will go back to her food after a short while - if not, I usually sprinkle some freeze dried protein over it to encourage her to eat - important that she has food on board when she gets her insulin shot - that usually tempts her enough to eat at least some of her offering - then she comes and goes from that food until it's gone. Usually by the next hour or so - which just so happens to be when I'm ready to test again at 1+ or 2+; and she gets another small serving of food (from the same can I opened for breakfast) she typically gets 2-3 servings from the small can of Fancy Feast pate. I wouldn't want to wait much longer than 30 minutes after eating to try to give the shot - soon the food will be all digested and she'll need to eat again to best tolerate the insulin.

But we're not going to shoot her right after testing and before eating, right?

Exactly!

I would highly recommend starting a new post tomorrow morning; You can continue to ask newbie questions - just put it like this: 8/7 Bibi AMPS ### Newbie questions, etc. etc. etc. List them out and people will stop in and help you. Read the stickies so you have specific questions about things you have read - lots of help there and from other members

 

[Bibi and Kira]

If you have a favorite location that you think will work best for both of you - pick her up and gently set her there - give her a treat and some petting/loving...and let her go on about her business. You may need to do that several times a day - always make it as pleasant as possible - even if it's only for a brief visit. The first test of the day - the AM test - might be done in this location - give her a treat after the test - each time - and then if she eats it or not - let her have her meal - then shoot the insulin - and give another treat - by this I mean one small pea-sized bit of high protein of one kind or another.

I presume you're reading thru the stickies - there's a ton of info and I know it's sometimes confusion about what to do first...but the order is Test / Feed /Shoot (if within safe numbers)


I always put Luci in a confined area with her food to allow me time to get her insulin ready - and she eats most of the time; sometimes she just thinks she shouldn't be in the pantry with the door closed - she waits for 15 minutes - and then gets her shot. Sometimes she's being difficult and will go back to her food after a short while - if not, I usually sprinkle some freeze dried protein over it to encourage her to eat - important that she has food on board when she gets her insulin shot - that usually tempts her enough to eat at least some of her offering - then she comes and goes from that food until it's gone. Usually by the next hour or so - which just so happens to be when I'm ready to test again at 1+ or 2+; and she gets another small serving of food (from the same can I opened for breakfast) she typically gets 2-3 servings from the small can of Fancy Feast pate. I wouldn't want to wait much longer than 30 minutes after eating to try to give the shot - soon the food will be all digested and she'll need to eat again to best tolerate the insulin.


Exactly!

I would highly recommend starting a new post tomorrow morning; You can continue to ask newbie questions - just put it like this: 8/7 Bibi AMPS ### Newbie questions, etc. etc. etc. List them out and people will stop in and help you. Read the stickies so you have specific questions about things you have read - lots of help there and from other members

Thanks for these tips. Will try to create a kitchen counter = good things association, also a treat after injecting. At this point we're freaking out about losing the Libre on Friday and being under immediate pressure to get successful ear-tests multiple times per day. I've only done a successful test twice at this point (out of many attempts), and she and her ears are definitely not used to it at all. Yikes..Yes, I will start a new thread with some more focused questions about testing. Thanks again.

 

[tiffmaxee]

Another suggestion is to use a sharp 25g terumo needle instead of a lancet. My vet taught me with a needle and I stuck with that, no pun intended.

 

[Bibi and Kira]

Another suggestion is to use a sharp 25g terumo needle instead of a lancet. My vet taught me with a needle and I stuck with that, no pun intended.

I get your point, @tiffmaxee! Thanks.

 

[J.J. and Phoebe Squeak]

Also, which treats or food do you find work best for testing? And when you're testing for shooting, do you just give one or two treats for testing, and then feed her right away, and then shoot right after feeding, or what sequence works best for you?

We use freeze dried chicken or freeze dried salmon treats. Our sequence is a bit different than what's recommended because Phoebe Squeak takes 2 people to test and shoot her most of the time and is not happy being held still. So we like to test & shoot while we have her on the kitchen island. But BEFORE we test, we give her 1 bite of food to be sure she's got a good appetite and then we test and shoot & give breakfast/dinner. If we are testing at a non-meal time she gets a treat right after the test.

 

[Bibi and Kira]

We use freeze dried chicken or freeze dried salmon treats. Our sequence is a bit different than what's recommended because Phoebe Squeak takes 2 people to test and shoot her most of the time and is not happy being held still. So we like to test & shoot while we have her on the kitchen island. But BEFORE we test, we give her 1 bite of food to be sure she's got a good appetite and then we test and shoot & give breakfast/dinner. If we are testing at a non-meal time she gets a treat right after the test.

I have both of those (Pure Bites?) treats but she’s not that crazy about them. I think she really misses her crunchies (kibble). Sounds like you’ve figured out a system that gets the job done for you and Phoebe Squeak. Good to know it can be done with less-than-easy-to-handle cats (of which Bibi is also one)! Thanks for sharing.