Dr Lisa's recipe/IBD

Status
Not open for further replies.
Kelly & Logan

Kelly & Logan

Very Active Member
Logan has IBD along with his diabetes. He's on prednisolone, Leukeran, Metronidazole and pepcid for the IBD but nothing seems to be controlling the inflammation for very long. I've been unable to get him to eat anything but chunky chicken fancy feast.

I want to try a home made recipe for him. I know a raw diet is supposed to be very beneficial for IBD, but since he's on immune suppression drugs, I don't think raw is a good idea. I was reading over Dr Lisa's recipe and did see the following mentioned:

The surface of whole meats can be washed with cold water before we grind them. This helps remove the surface bacteria. Going one step further, the whole meat can be put into boiling water for a couple of minutes to help kill the surface bacteria. I suggest doing this for any animal that may be immunocompromised due to illness, advanced age, or if they are receiving any immunosuppressive medications, or antacids. I also suggest boiling the meats for a couple of minutes if you are unsure of your meat source.

Just curious if anyone has tried this recipe for an IBD kitty. Is it safe to only boil the meat for a couple of minutes when his immune system is so suppressed? The vet gave me a "recipe" but it only called for ground turkey, a calcium carbonate supplement and a vitamin supplement. The recipe calls for the ground turkey to be cooked. I feel like this isn't a nutrionally complete diet, though. Maybe it could be a starting point, though? And if his IBD improves, we can try Dr Lisa's recipe that calls for the bones/skin/etc?

I'm open to suggestions! Logan isn't doing well with the drugs. They clearly are not enough and I can't help but think a change in diet will help...if I can find something he'll eat. Btw, I've cooked him some ground turkey before and he wasn't crazy about it. He likes boiled chicken and turkey breasts, though. I'm not sure how I could add in the supplements to the boiled breasts - it would be easier to mix it in with the ground meat prior to cooking.

I have tried giving him novel protein foods - Natural Balance Duck/Green Pea, Venison/Green Pea; Ziwipeak Venison, Lamb; EVO 95% Duck, 95% Venison; Natural Instinct Rabbit; etc. He doesn't like any of them. He only seems to like poultry! He's not even a big fan of canned tuna.
 
Hi Kelly, I so feel for what you are going through. My cat, Riggs, had severe inflamation resulting in horrible, chronic diarrhea, gas and pain for over 2 years. I believe the inflamation in Riggs' gut also increased his episodes of chonic pancreatitis (CP). Though I chose to avoid drugs to treat his IBD, I tried every canned food I could. I consulted with Dr. Lisa and she highly encouraged me to try a raw food diet. I tried raw and Riggs would turn his nose up at it--I tried every way possible to prepare it and serve it to him. Nothing seemed to work. FINALLY, I found what worked for Riggs! He has been FREE of IBD symptoms for over a year now--it feels like a miracle. Since starting a balanced raw food diet, Riggs has also significantly reduced the severity and incidence of CP.

First of all I want to make it clear that I can not answer your question about whether it is safe for your cat to eat chicken that has been boiled for just a couple of minutes. I can however, give you my experiences in dealing with making raw food for a cat with IBD. Every Cat Is Different but, for Riggs this is what has worked... I buy chicken breasts (I use skinless because I have to keep Riggs' fat intake very low due to CP), I boil water then 'dip' each breast into the boiling water to very lightly 'cook' a thin outer layer (thus about 98% of the thick breast remains raw and 2% is lightly cooked), next I use a meat grinder to grind the breast (Riggs is very picky about the texture so I had to experiment to find the right consistancy), I then add the right amount of water and Instincts Plus which includes chicken liver (Instincts Plus is a powdered premixed supplement purchased online at www.felinefuture.com), I mix everything together, seperate mixture into small plastic containers and store in the freezer. I found out about Instincts Plus from Dr. Lisa's site. I tried making the raw food per Dr. Lisa's recipe but Riggs just wouldn't eat it--NOTE however, that my civvies loooooved it just not the cat who really needed to eat it! I do still have to entice Riggs to eat his raw from time to time so I sprinkle treats on top such as freeze dried chicken or FortiFlora (these toppings have made a big difference in keeping Riggs on this diet). If Riggs really starts to turn his nose up at the raw, I will feed him a couple meals of boiled chicken breast then back to the raw. I also found that I need to add a pinch of Miralax (found over the counter in drug stores) into Riggs' food once a day to keep the poo from getting too hard for him to pass comfortably (I think the chronic inflamation caused Riggs' intestines to not have the tone they use to have).

Riggs was not in a good place when we started the raw diet (he was experiencing a lot of CP pain, inflamation and horrid diarrhea). With the guidence of my vet, I only fed Riggs boiled chicken breast for about two weeks then transitioned him onto the raw diet. Though not a balanced diet, the boiled chicken only diet gave Riggs' gut a break and helped break his Fancy Feast addiction. In Riggs' case the Fancy Feast (which he loved!) was horrible for him. Even today one bite of FF can throw him back into severe diarrhea.

I encourage you to continue your research into diet and IBD and wish you the best of luck in your efforts to help your dear Logan!!

June
 
Besides June's excellent suggestions, you might try what she did and ask for a consult with Dr. Lisa. I hope you can find some answers to help your Logan feel better.
 
Thanks, June and Pamela. I think I'm going to order some of the feline future powder and try it with cooked chicken. I tried giving him some cooked ground chicken and ground turkey but he doesn't seem to like the texture. He does better with chunks of chicken or turkey breasts.

I have thought about doing a consult with Dr Lisa. I need to gather all of his paper work over the last 5 months!
 
Kelly:

Gabby doesn't have IBD but I do grind my own boneless, skinless chicken and use the Instinct pre-mix. I don't get the variety with liver added. I grind fresh chicken livers into the food. Since Logan likes texture, you could grind part of the food and either chop by hand or use a food processor to keep a portion chunkier and then mix it through the rest. Like June, I make up packets of food and freeze them in 1/4 cup amounts.
 
Unfortunately, the Instincts powder contains a milk complex - Logan is highly allergic to milk protein. So, that option is out for us.
 
I'm also looking into raw diets for Max as it is possible he has IBD. Kelly, have you looked at this recipe: http://www.felinefuture.com/?p=1299 ? It's on the Feline Futures website, but is a recipe from scratch--not using their pre-mix. I don't know how it compares to Dr. Lisa's recipe as I haven't looked that one up yet, but it doesn't have any dairy, so may be a good option for you if you can figure out how to handle the raw aspect.

Also, have you talked with your vet about taking him off the prescriptions so that you can try a raw diet? If the meds aren't helping, perhaps he'd do alright without them and with the raw diet?
 
Mindy & Max said:
I'm also looking into raw diets for Max as it is possible he has IBD. Kelly, have you looked at this recipe: http://www.felinefuture.com/?p=1299 ? It's on the Feline Futures website, but is a recipe from scratch--not using their pre-mix. I don't know how it compares to Dr. Lisa's recipe as I haven't looked that one up yet, but it doesn't have any dairy, so may be a good option for you if you can figure out how to handle the raw aspect.

Also, have you talked with your vet about taking him off the prescriptions so that you can try a raw diet? If the meds aren't helping, perhaps he'd do alright without them and with the raw diet?
Click to expand...

Our goal is to wean him off of the pred. He's been a very fussy eater and has had a feeding tube already so I'm afraid taking him off all together could cause the IBD to really flare up and make him stop eating all together. I've requested a consult with Dr Lisa Pierson to discuss the dangers of the raw diet with his medications. I'm hoping she can give me some guidance!
 
I feed Quincy boiled chicken too (usually mixed with some wet food but some times just the chicken), and shred it by hand. If you boil it or microwave it for a long time, it gets pretty soft and easy to tear up. Once it's shredded, then you can mix additives into it. In my case, I add a little bit of salmon oil and some digestive enzymes powder. I also add some water to make the mixture freeze better once it's put into ice cube trays.
 
Laura and Quincy said:
I feed Quincy boiled chicken too (usually mixed with some wet food but some times just the chicken), and shred it by hand. If you boil it or microwave it for a long time, it gets pretty soft and easy to tear up. Once it's shredded, then you can mix additives into it. In my case, I add a little bit of salmon oil and some digestive enzymes powder. I also add some water to make the mixture freeze better once it's put into ice cube trays.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip, Laura! I'll have to try that.
 
Kelly & Logan said:
Unfortunately, the Instincts powder contains a milk complex - Logan is highly allergic to milk protein. So, that option is out for us.
Click to expand...

how about hare today's simply raw supplement? doesn't look like it has any dairy ingredient; you can call their toll-free number to confirm.

other options for raw - i don't know if any of these, even the hare today's supp above, would work with cooked food - check out lynette's site. it's closed for business, but if you scroll down the page to Making a Complete Cat Food Using Hare Today, there are three options listed.
 
WCF and Meowzi said:
Kelly & Logan said:
Unfortunately, the Instincts powder contains a milk complex - Logan is highly allergic to milk protein. So, that option is out for us.
Click to expand...

how about hare today's simply raw supplement? doesn't look like it has any dairy ingredient; you can call their toll-free number to confirm.

other options for raw - i don't know if any of these, even the hare today's supp above, would work with cooked food - check out lynette's site. it's closed for business, but if you scroll down the page to Making a Complete Cat Food Using Hare Today, there are three options listed.
Click to expand...


Thanks! I'll check those out!
 
Sorry, was off the boards earlier this week and missed it.

I never made my own raw food, but we did try a raw diet for a while. While Gwyn was never on immunosuppressant drugs, she was immunocompromised due to long-term steroid use. We were pretty careful about handling the raw food according to directions (limitations on thawing and how long it should be left out, etc), and we didn't have a problem -- even a few times when I forgot to remove the food on time. That said, Gwyn's immune system probably isn't as suppressed as Logan's, and we didn't stay with the raw food diet for more than a few weeks.

I can't remember if Logan has the diarrheal or constipating form of IBD. If the diarrheal form, the raw food diet should be fine to try. If he has the constipating form, I would make certain to monitor his bowel movements carefully, as a raw food diet can be beneficial or severely contra-indicated in a cat prone to constipation.

If it's the constipating form, I'd also suggest getting Logan's kidney values checked, and discuss with your vet the risks/benefits of starting sub-Q fluids earlier than normal; any extra fluid can only help constipation.

Finally, have you tried B-12 injections? Those are very useful for cats with either form of IBD (and also some other intestinal problems). Most of the IBD cats start with the TAMU protocol here http://www.cvm.tamu.edu/gilab/research/cobalamin.shtml , and then adjust it to their cats needs. You'll want to use injectible B-12. Your vet should be able to sell you some, I've been able to special-order it from about half the pharmacies I've tried, and a bunch of folks have reported that it's carried in their local feed store. It's given sub-Q, so you can just use your insulin syringes for that.

You may also want to try the YahooGroup for felineIBD. The old group closed down; the new group is here http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/felineibd1/. I'm not familiar with the new group; most of the folks on the old group were dealing with the much more common diarrheal form so, if you have the constipating form, please double-check all their advice.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top