? Double check my conversion math? U-40 to U-100

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Panic

Member Since 2019
I cannot stand the U-40 needles we are currently using! I'm pretty sure I've stabbed my kitty because of the long needle, and it's so much harder to get through the skin! If I'm remembering right we're using 29g atm but more than anything I just need a shorter needle. The forums I looked through are dated however, so let me know if there are now short needles for U-40 I can use instead!

Now for my question though, just to make sure I'm understanding this conversion chart right:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm

My kitty takes 4u in a U-40. Does this mean in a U-100 I will give her "10" units?

Is this also the reason why my insulin looks like it's going down so much faster with a U-40 insulin vs a U-100 insulin?
 
I'm having the same issues with U40 syringes!!! My vet managed to track down 30G U40 syringes from a supplier, but they were double to price of other brands, and still 1/2" length. I searched for literally over an hour online today for U40 syringes that were smaller than 29G and/or shorter than 1/2" and I came up with NOTHING. I don't want to use the U100 syringes because I'm afraid of an error, especially when I'm giving less than 1 unit doses currently. I have nothing to add to your post but I wanted to validate your frustrations!!
 
My kitty takes 4u in a U-40. Does this mean in a U-100 I will give her "10" units?
Yep. That's what that means. If you're using a u-40 insulin and you are administering it in a u-100 syringe, that conversion chart is the accurate chart you should go by. U-100 insulin is two and a half times stronger than u-40 insulin. So 4 units, at 4 X 2.5, would equal 10. But you don't have to worry about doing the math, you can just look at that chart. I use Prozinc for Jack, which is a u40 insulin. I switched to the u100 syringes because they're thinner and shorter needles. I was extremely, overly cautious not to give him the wrong dose. But once you get used to it, it's easy. I really like the u-100 syringes because it's much easier to give him his shots, and I can micro dose so much easier with u-100 syringes.
 
I don't want to use the U100 syringes because I'm afraid of an error, especially when I'm giving less than 1 unit doses currently
U-100 syringes actually make it easier to give smaller doses. With a u-40 syringe, .25 is about as low as you can go comfortably, and that's providing that the syringe has half unit markings. With u-100 syringes, you can dose as low as. 2U by the markings on the syringe, and you can bring it even lower if you eyeball what half of that would be, bringing it down to a tiny .1U. Micro dosing is much easier in a u-100 syringe.
 
Yep. That's what that means. If you're using a u-40 insulin and you are administering it in a u-100 syringe, that conversion chart is the accurate chart you should go by. U-100 insulin is two and a half times stronger than u-40 insulin. So 4 units, at 4 X 2.5, would equal 10. But you don't have to worry about doing the math, you can just look at that chart. I use Prozinc for Jack, which is a u40 insulin. I switched to the u100 syringes because they're thinner and shorter needles. I was extremely, overly cautious not to give him the wrong dose. But once you get used to it, it's easy. I really like the u-100 syringes because it's much easier to give him his shots, and I can micro dose so much easier with u-100 syringes.

Ah thank you!! That's really interesting actually. Since you said you were really cautious first starting out, is there anything I need to be careful about dosage-wise? In terms of using a U-100 syringe for a U-40 insulin, is it worse to go over or under on a U-100 syringe?

I'm having the same issues with U40 syringes!!! My vet managed to track down 30G U40 syringes from a supplier, but they were double to price of other brands, and still 1/2" length. I searched for literally over an hour online today for U40 syringes that were smaller than 29G and/or shorter than 1/2" and I came up with NOTHING. I don't want to use the U100 syringes because I'm afraid of an error, especially when I'm giving less than 1 unit doses currently. I have nothing to add to your post but I wanted to validate your frustrations!!

Isn't that wild! I wonder why they don't offer smaller needles for U-40? Maybe they're thinking more of dogs or something than cats?? I wanted to keep using the "appropriate" needles for the insulin I'm using but bah! U-100 was easier! Maybe I'll send the U-40s with my cat if/when she needs to go to the vet so I don't get scolded for using the "wrong" needles. XDD
 
is there anything I need to be careful about dosage-wise? In terms of using a U-100 syringe for a U-40 insulin, is it worse to go over or under on a U-100 syringe?
Of course, in a perfect world, we wouldn't go either over or under. But to answer your question, I think it would always be better to administer less than we meant to rather than more than we should have. Giving a higher dose than we intended could cause a hypo situation, and that's never good. It's better to be too high than to risk going too low.
 
Of course, in a perfect world, we wouldn't go either over or under. But to answer your question, I think it would always be better to administer less than we meant to rather than more than we should have. Giving a higher dose than we intended could cause a hypo situation, and that's never good. It's better to be too high than to risk going too low.

Makes sense! ;) I'm assuming though it's not really that hard to administer correctly, just pretend like you're giving X number of units?
 
Makes sense! ;) I'm assuming though it's not really that hard to administer correctly, just pretend like you're giving X number of units?
I'm not exactly sure what you mean. If you usually dose 4 units in a u40 syringe, then that exact dose would be 10 units on a u100. So do you mean that you would be pretending to give 10 units? If that's what you mean, then yep, it would be like that. But in actuality, you're still giving 4 units of a u40 insulin, although it would look like 10 in a u100 syringe. I hope that makes sense, and I hope that answers your question!

Just ALWAYS make sure to check the conversion chart before every single dose.
 
Every time you change your dose you mean?
When I first switched to a u-100 syringe, I checked that conversion chart every time I gave him a shot, even without changing the dose for a while. I was just double checking myself over and over again. Once I became really confident that I was giving him the correct dose with the u-100, I stopped checking until his dose was changed again. I was just so nervous when I first started using them, afraid that I would give him the wrong amount.
 
Just a few tips if you go to the u-100 syringes:

* Label the u-40 syringes as such with a big sticky note and then put them away. Far away (back of a top cupboard, storage tote, whatever). More than one member has grabbed the wrong syringe and accidentally overdosed their cat. That significant of an oversize (in your case, 10 units instead of 4) can be scary, not to mention dangerous. Best to prevent the possibility in the first place.

* The volume of insulin is exactly the same when you do the conversion. For example, drawing insulin to the "4"line on a u-40 syringe is the exact same amount of liquid as drawing to the "10" line on a u-100 syringe. Feel free to prove it to yourself using colored water -- fill to 4 on the u-40 then transfer the liquid to the u-100. It will be on the 10 line.

* When talking about insulin dose, always reference the ACTUAL dose of insulin given, not the line you draw to on the syringe. For example, you are administering 4u of insulin right now, so you would say your cat's dose is 4u. I don't care whether you draw "4" line on a U-40 syringe or the "10" line on a u-100 syringe or the "x" line on some random container that has been marked to hold that exact volume of liquid, the dose of insulin you are currently giving is still 4 units.

I too referenced the conversion chart for every shot when I first started using u-100 syringes with a u-40 insulin. It does start to feel more comfortable in time. Caution and hesitation in the early days is probably a good thing -- it keeps us on our toes and makes us double and triple check our work, which in turn helps prevent errors.
 
Thank you @JL and Chip ! I went ahead and ordered a batch of U100s, I'm excited to use them since this morning was exceptionally hard poking my kitty with the big ole U40s. I have a special basket I pull my syringes out of on the fridge so I'll just tuck the U40s away in my closet for emergencies or something.

I was wondering about these syringes though...in a few months my friend is going to be catsitting my little one. Obviously the U100s are going to be easier for her to learn how to use anyway, but I don't want to confuse my friend on the 4u vs 10u mark. I could just tell her "she takes 4u but draw the dose at the 10 mark with these needles" but on the off-chance she needed medical attention and had to go to a vet, I wouldn't want her to hand them the U100s and say she takes 10 units...but I don't think giving my friend "emergency U40s" is a good idea either. Does anyone have experience with that? I'm probably overthinking things!
 
* Label the u-40 syringes as such with a big sticky note and then put them away. Far away (back of a top cupboard, storage tote, whatever). More than one member has grabbed the wrong syringe and accidentally overdosed their cat. That significant of an oversize (in your case, 10 units instead of 4) can be scary, not to mention dangerous. Best to prevent the possibility in the first place.
Excellent advice!
 
another possible safeguard -- the needle guards on my U-40 syringes are bright RED, I have heard that this is common practice, but don't DEPEND on it
the needle guards on the U-100 syringes I've seen are bright ORANGE
fortunately I am not only not colorblind, I found from a lab in organic chemistry that I am red-sensitive, noticed a red tint before many of my classmates

Murphy and his famous Law, could result in a mixup at factory or other, but it's (cross fingers) still a double-check
 
Thank you @JL and Chip ! I went ahead and ordered a batch of U100s, I'm excited to use them since this morning was exceptionally hard poking my kitty with the big ole U40s. I have a special basket I pull my syringes out of on the fridge so I'll just tuck the U40s away in my closet for emergencies or something.

I was wondering about these syringes though...in a few months my friend is going to be catsitting my little one. Obviously the U100s are going to be easier for her to learn how to use anyway, but I don't want to confuse my friend on the 4u vs 10u mark. I could just tell her "she takes 4u but draw the dose at the 10 mark with these needles" but on the off-chance she needed medical attention and had to go to a vet, I wouldn't want her to hand them the U100s and say she takes 10 units...but I don't think giving my friend "emergency U40s" is a good idea either. Does anyone have experience with that? I'm probably overthinking things!
I don't have any experience with this as Jack's never gotten shots from anyone other than me, but I think your idea sounds reasonable. Just explain that it is 4U, but these syringes are different and need to be filed to the 10U mark. And let her know that if she needs to relay this info to a vet, be sure to say that the dose is 4U, not 10.
If I were you, I'd put the U40s in an inaccessible place where they cannot be easily gotten to. Do more than tuck them away. Hide them!
 
another possible safeguard -- the needle guards on my U-40 syringes are bright RED, I have heard that this is common practice, but don't DEPEND on it
the needle guards on the U-100 syringes I've seen are bright ORANGE
fortunately I am not only not colorblind, I found from a lab in organic chemistry that I am red-sensitive, noticed a red tint before many of my classmates

Murphy and his famous Law, could result in a mixup at factory or other, but it's (cross fingers) still a double-check
That's a good point. Don't ever rely on the 100s being orange and the 40s being red, as there can be instances where that may not be the case. And, as you've noted, some people have varying degrees of color blindness. Or they just don't know their colors! :confused::eek::nailbiting:
 
Red and orange are so close in shades anyway, I would definitely get mixed up trying to remember which was which. Idk about anyone else since I know there's a lot of types of syringes, but my U-40s are individually wrapped and are twice as large compared to the U-100s I used prior. There's literally no way you can mix them up unless you just aren't thinking about it.
 
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I use U100 syringes with U40 insulin. I track both the U40 dose and the U100 equivalent in side by side columns on my cat's spreadsheet. I actually built in a little multiplier function so when I type the value in one column, the conversion fills in automatically. If I need to talk about the dose with the vet, I can easily provide all the U40 numbers.

I have been given some U40 syringes, and to avoid mixing them up, I put those in a big ziploc bag with a label.
 
U-100 syringes actually make it easier to give smaller doses. With a u-40 syringe, .25 is about as low as you can go comfortably, and that's providing that the syringe has half unit markings. With u-100 syringes, you can dose as low as. 2U by the markings on the syringe, and you can bring it even lower if you eyeball what half of that would be, bringing it down to a tiny .1U. Micro dosing is much easier in a u-100 syringe.

oh!! I didn't realize that!! I don't think I've ever actually seen a U100 syringe in person, so that would probably help. Picturing it in my mind seemed like it was more confusing.

I use U100 syringes with U40 insulin. I track both the U40 dose and the U100 equivalent in side by side columns on my cat's spreadsheet. I actually built in a little multiplier function so when I type the value in one column, the conversion fills in automatically. If I need to talk about the dose with the vet, I can easily provide all the U40 numbers.

I have been given some U40 syringes, and to avoid mixing them up, I put those in a big ziploc bag with a label.

What a great idea with the spreadsheet!!! Thanks!

Unfortunately I just ordered another box of U40s, but perhaps when I go through that box I'll convert!
 
oh!! I didn't realize that!! I don't think I've ever actually seen a U100 syringe in person, so that would probably help. Picturing it in my mind seemed like it was more confusing.
I don't know if you can see clearly in the pictures below, but 5 units on this u-100 syringe is equal to 2 units on a u40. And you can clearly see five little lines under that number five, so you can easily go lower than two units. And if you look to the left of those five little lines, you will see half marks that you can also use. So if you go to that very first line, which is a half mark, you're only giving .2 units of insulin. To take that even further, you can half that amount and give only .1 unit. I hope I'm not confusing you.:confused:


IMG_20190527_161549.jpg
IMG_20190527_161509.jpg
 
I went ahead and ordered a batch of U100s
Did you order 3/10 cc u-100 syringes (as opposed to 1/2 cc or 1 cc)? I know all the numbers can be confusing so just checking what you ordered.

In a few months my friend is going to be catsitting my little one. Obviously the U100s are going to be easier for her to learn how to use anyway, but I don't want to confuse my friend on the 4u vs 10u mark. I could just tell her "she takes 4u but draw the dose at the 10 mark with these needles" but on the off-chance she needed medical attention and had to go to a vet, I wouldn't want her to hand them the U100s and say she takes 10 units...but I don't think giving my friend "emergency U40s" is a good idea either. Does anyone have experience with that? I'm probably overthinking things![/USER]
My suggestion is to fill a u-100 sample syringe filled to the 10 line with brightly colored water (be sure to label it as EXAMPLE -- DO NOT USE) and then tell your friend to draw to the 10 mark of the u-100 syringe when administering insulin, using the sample syringe as an guide if there are any questions.

Sometimes too much info is confusing, so I wouldn't go into great detail about the conversion unless your friend is already knowledgeable or really wants to understand the nuances. You can mention it, but I'd focus on making sure your friend understands the basics about when to shoot and how much insulin to draw up. I've confused more than one person, even veterinarians, by talking about mismatched insulin/syringes and conversion charts.

Will your friend be home testing? I'd try to make sure that is happening if possible, with numbers logged on a piece of paper.

You might also have your friend register here, or give them your logon, so they can post questions or concerns in your absence.

In the case of an emergency vet visit, your friend can simply tell the vet that your cat is on insulin (have them take the bottle but NOT the syringes... Vets will have the appropriate syringes). I'd also leave a note in an envelope addressed to the vet stating pertinent info, such as the 4u dose and type of insulin and whatever else.
 
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Did you order 3/10 cc u-100 syringes (as opposed to 1/2 cc or 1 cc)? I know all the numbers can be confusing so just checking what you ordered.

I did order the 3/10 ones, I don't remember what they mean but I still have a little syringe I keep with my pencils on my desk that the vet first gave me (to practice with on stuffed animals haha) that was the same kind of U100s I originally used, and the syringe said 3/10 so I made sure to order the same kind.

The colored water suggestion is a great idea actually! I will have to remember it when she cat-sits.
I'm actually way ahead of you on that, I've been working on a "health guide" pamphlet I'll be giving to her with all of her information on it. There's a guide to preparing and administering insulin, an FAQ section (things like for shooting and feeding times, etc.), an insulin shock guide, and on the back I have her emergency contacts (regular vet, 24 hr vet number, animal boarding that accepts diabetic kitties, and myself) along with all of kitty's personal info a vet may need. Just last night I added a section on the back (it's meant for her to hand the guide to a vet too should something come up) about the needles. Here's what I put:

"Her medical dosage is:
___ units of a U40 insulin called ________.

In a U40 syringe this will be ____ units.

HOWEVER!!

In a U100 syringe this will look like ___ units.

You have been provided with U____ syringes, which means you will fill her dose to the _____ unit mark twice daily."

Left blank spaces in case of insulin/dosage change and all that ^-^
I would be cautious about vets having proper syringes, I actually have to bring mine in every time she gets a curve done because they don't have any on-hand. It's a small vet practice though.
 
Yep. That's what that means. If you're using a u-40 insulin and you are administering it in a u-100 syringe, that conversion chart is the accurate chart you should go by. U-100 insulin is two and a half times stronger than u-40 insulin. So 4 units, at 4 X 2.5, would equal 10. But you don't have to worry about doing the math, you can just look at that chart. I use Prozinc for Jack, which is a u40 insulin. I switched to the u100 syringes because they're thinner and shorter needles. I was extremely, overly cautious not to give him the wrong dose. But once you get used to it, it's easy. I really like the u-100 syringes because it's much easier to give him his shots, and I can micro dose so much easier with u-100 syringes.

Hello all!

I thought I was understanding this pretty well, the conversion part, but now I'm second guessing! Riddick gets 1 unit of u40, which would be 2.5 on the u100 syringe? If that's correct, where in the heck is 2.5 on the u100 syringe!? Am I totally out of it, I'm looking at marks for every 10 with five lines inbetween.
 

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Hello all!

I thought I was understanding this pretty well, the conversion part, but now I'm second guessing! Riddick gets 1 unit of u40, which would be 2.5 on the u100 syringe? If that's correct, where in the heck is 2.5 on the u100 syringe!? Am I totally out of it, I'm looking at marks for every 10 with five lines inbetween.
I'm confused... That looks nothing like the U100 that I've been using. Do you have U40s?
You're not remotely "out of it." That just doesn't make any sense to me either.
Let me tag @Djamila and see if she understands these. Djamila - Are you familiar with this U100 that Jeni has?
 
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try rolling the syringe a little further counterclockwise, there may be second set of marks showing the in-between units -- you show the ones for 2 4 6 8
turn it another eighth of a turn and you might see 1 3 5 7 9 markings, though they aren't labeled as such

then for a half unit, interpolate between the two sets of marks ...

I accumulated a set marked like the one you show, haven't unpacked it yet, definitely different from the U-40s I've been using -- supposedly these have half unit markings but turns out they are not exactly that

they are marked for doses up to 30 units -- my U-40 show doses up to 20 units

ETA -- no, mine are different, marked only for 30 units, looks like yours are marked for 100
 
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Hello all!

I thought I was understanding this pretty well, the conversion part, but now I'm second guessing! Riddick gets 1 unit of u40, which would be 2.5 on the u100 syringe? If that's correct, where in the heck is 2.5 on the u100 syringe!? Am I totally out of it, I'm looking at marks for every 10 with five lines inbetween.

Those look like larger capacity dose u100 syringes, which are thicker, to hold more. This link shows several different u100 options. I use a 0.3ml syringe like the one on the top, whereas the one in your photograph looks like one of the larger barreled syringes:
https://www.vetrxdirect.com/product/view/u-100-insulin-syringes-dogs-and-cats-rx
 
Those look like larger capacity dose u100 syringes, which are thicker, to hold more. This link shows several different u100 options. I use a 0.3ml syringe like the one on the top, whereas the one in your photograph looks like one of the larger barreled syringes:
https://www.vetrxdirect.com/product/view/u-100-insulin-syringes-dogs-and-cats-rx
That's it! I feel a little silly that it never occurred to me that there could be different size U100s--the actual barrel of the syringes. o_O
@Brite_eyes06 Were you able to give Riddick a shot this morning? You could dose him with the syringe that you have, but it would be challenging to be exact with the dose. Probably more than challenging, but close enough. (Better than no shot at all.) Just err on the side of caution, and give a smaller dose rather than a larger one than you're aiming for. To the very first line of that barrel would be 2 units of U100, which is a little less than the 2.5 that you're going for. I'll be wondering how you're doing today...

Edited to add: I agree with @JL and Chip - I think it's safer/better to just get rid of those and get 3/10 cc syringes with half marks, or U40, preferably with half marks. Although you could give a dose of 2U without error, you can't fine tune any better than that and it would be easy to make a mistake. It's not worth it.
 
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Riddick gets 1 unit of u40, which would be 2.5 on the u100 syringe? If that's correct, where in the heck is 2.5 on the u100 syringe!? Am I totally out of it, I'm looking at marks for every 10 with five lines inbetween.
I strongly suggest that you DO NOT use those u-100 syringes.

The syringes in the photo are 1 cc syringes, so each hash mark is 2 units. The 2.5 mark (what you would be aiming for) would be just a smidgen past the first line. These are high volume syringes and are virtually impossible to use with a cat....definitely MUCH harder to use than your u-40s and most likely much less accurate when dosing small amounts.

With all the numbers on syringes, it's an easy mistake to make. U-100 syringes come in several sizes:
3/10 cc (holds 30 units of insulin)
1/2 cc (holds 50 units of insulin)
1 cc (holds 100 units)

You want u-100 3/10 cc syringes, preferably with half unit markings.

Please either toss those syringes or try to return them (not sure that's possible, but you could try). More than one member here has accidentally overdosed their cat by getting high-volume syringes and misunderstanding what each hash mark represents.
 
possibly the syringes I got (supposedly from Walmart) are mislabeled

package shows 3/10 ml, 31 gauge, 8mm (5/16) short needle -- syringes themselves marked 3/10 ml for U-100 insulin

they are marked both with 1u and 2u lines, but not half-u lines

we'll see if I can use them, either if Catcat earns another dose reduction on Vetsulin, or if we wind up transitioning to Lantus

I'm nearly out of the U-40s from the vet (expen$ive) and the promised ones from someone else have not arrived, may not have been shipped yet
 
I strongly suggest that you DO NOT use those u-100 syringes.

The syringes in the photo are 1 cc syringes, so each hash mark is 2 units. The 2.5 mark (what you would be aiming for) would be just a smidgen past the first line. These are high volume syringes and are virtually impossible to use with a cat....definitely MUCH harder to use than your u-40s and most likely much less accurate when dosing small amounts.

With all the numbers on syringes, it's an easy mistake to make. U-100 syringes come in several sizes:
3/10 cc (holds 30 units of insulin)
1/2 cc (holds 50 units of insulin)
1 cc (holds 100 units)

You want u-100 3/10 cc syringes, preferably with half unit markings.

Please either toss those syringes or try to return them (not sure that's possible, but you could try). More than one member here has accidentally overdosed their cat by getting high-volume syringes and misunderstanding what each hash mark represents.
I agree. It's not worth taking a chance, and it's impossible to dose correctly.
 
possibly the syringes I got (supposedly from Walmart) are mislabeled

package shows 3/10 ml, 31 gauge, 8mm (5/16) short needle -- syringes themselves marked 3/10 ml for U-100 insulin

they are marked both with 1u and 2u lines, but not half-u lines

we'll see if I can use them, either if Catcat earns another dose reduction on Vetsulin, or if we wind up transitioning to Lantus

I'm nearly out of the U-40s from the vet (expen$ive) and the promised ones from someone else have not arrived, may not have been shipped yet
I would say that if there is a shadow of doubt, or if there are other syringes that would just make it clearer and easier for you, get rid of those and get the proper syringes. It's NEVER worth making a mistake.
 
That's it! I feel a little silly that it never occurred to me that there could be different size U100s--the actual barrel of the syringes. o_O
@Brite_eyes06 Were you able to give Riddick a shot this morning? You could dose him with the syringe that you have, but it would be challenging to be exact with the dose. Probably more than challenging, but close enough. (Better than no shot at all.) Just err on the side of caution, and give a smaller dose rather than a larger one than you're aiming for. To the very first line of that barrel would be 2 units of U100, which is a little less than the 2.5 that you're going for. I'll be wondering how you're doing today...

Edited to add: I agree with @JL and Chip - I think it's safer/better to just get rid of those and get 3/10 cc syringes with half marks, or U40, preferably with half marks. Although you could give a dose of 2U without error, you can't fine tune any better than that and it would be easy to make a mistake. It's not worth it.
Thank you!! ❤️
 
I am SO glad I asked! I was feeling confident and ready to dose and then BAM, what was I looking at! :( When I went to Walgreens to get the U40, they were out and the pharmacist assured me the u100 would be fine. Now I know! I have a pack of u40s on the way too.

Thank you so much friends, you are all so helpful in your experience!! ❤️
 
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I would say that if there is a shadow of doubt, or if there are other syringes that would just make it clearer and easier for you, get rid of those and get the proper syringes. It's NEVER worth making a mistake.

absolutely! I've been dealing with U-40s with no half unit marks, have been very very carefully using the plunger to mark the .75 u that we've been attempting to reduce dose to, from 1u -- check check double check --

very good possibility some Lantus AND some supplies will be enroute to Seattle for me tonight -- am jumping for joy :joyful:
 
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