Info Dosing with calipers updated w/videos

Status
Not open for further replies.

Marje and Gracie

Very Active Member
Moderator
Many of us have noted, regardless which syringe we use (Relions, BD, Monojects), that the syringes are all very inaccurate and the inaccuracy varies from syringe to syringe of the same brand and lot number.

We were using Monoject syringes at the time and noticed that the amount of insulin in the hub, as well as the markings on the syringes, varied from shot to shot. In order to determine how inaccurate the syringes were and develop dosing with calipers, MJ (Donovan) sent me an adjustable micropipettor. 10 microliters on the micropipettor is equivalent to 1u. This allowed me to determine the exact amount in what was marked as 1u on the Monojects. What I found was that 1u, as marked on the Monoject syringes, varied from 14 - 15.2 microliters or 1.4 - 1.52 units. I tested several Monoject syringes and the majority came out as the 1u actually being 1.46u. I found other syringe brands were not as inaccurate but they all were.

Calipers will help you dose more consistently but calipers are not required to dose. If you are comfortable with dosing without them, it will not affect whether your cat will go into remission. It's just a tool to dose more consistently and, if there is more than one person drawing doses, it allows both people to dose the same. Here is the link to the Harbor Freight 4" digital calipers we use just to provide you with an example. Using a light tracer box under the syringe and a lit magnifying glass to look at it from above will give lots of light to help with dosing.

We made two instructional videos to help you. They are similar but the first one was a little dark but still has some good info that I couldn't remember for the second one. It's most important to recognize that different syringe types (e.g. Monoject, BD, Relion) will have a different millimeter measurement for 1u than I used in the video and where you measure from/to with the calipers will likely be different (especially if you are using BD syringes).




If you are currently using calipers, do not change your measurements based on the info below. Consistency is most important so stay with what you have calculated and been using.

If you are starting out dosing with calipers, you can use the measurements below which will enable you to skip the process of determining the millimeters to 1u provided you are using one of the syringes listed below:

All of these syringes are U100, 0.3cc (the gauge of the needle won’t matter):
Monoject 1.24mm = 1u
ReliOn 1.32 mm = 1u
BD Ultrafine II (Canada) 1.5mm = 1u
BD Ultrafine (US) 1.62mm = 1u
Carepoint 1.2mm = 1u
UltiCare VetRX 1.25mm = 1u
Sure Comfort 1.34mm = 1u

I would suggest that if you are starting out dosing with calipers and your syringe is not listed above, ask around the forums to see if anyone else using calipers has already done the below measurements for the exact syringe type you are using. If they have, you can skip the process in the following paragraph because you will have the measurements you need (i.e. how many mm are in 1u for that syringe type) and you’ll just need to make your chart.

If the above information is not available for your specific syringe type from my chart above or from another member, you’ll need to follow the process below to measure the millimeters to 1u for your syringe.

Please be sure and measure the millimeters in 1u on your syringe type.
To do this, find as many near perfect syringes as possible where the zero mark lines up perfectly at the top. Measure all of them to see if you can get a pretty consistent measurement in mm for 1u. It also helps to double check it by measuring between the 1u and 2u marks.

Once you do that, you can calculate the remainder of your doses.

It’s strongly suggested that you use millimeters on the calipers, not inches, to measure your dose so the numbers are easier to deal with (if you use inches, you’ll be working with very small numbers).

I recommend you make a chart that you keep near your syringes. I made my chart in 0.1u doses but you can make yours however you wish.

For example, when I developed this originally, I was using the Terumo U100, 0.3cc, 1/2-unit marking syringes (no longer available) where 1.52mm = 1u and I made this chart:
0.15mm = 0.1u
0.3mm = 0.2u
0.38mm = 0.25u
0.76mm = 0.5u
1.14mm = 0.75u
1.52mm = 1u
etc.

Alternatively, if you don’t want to make a chart, you can use the following formula to calculate the mm measurement for each dose:

Example:
(dose) x 1.5 (conversion number provided for syringe brand) = caliper mm
0.25u x 1.5 = 0.38mm

In addition to the videos, below are written instructions how to use the calipers once you know how many millimeters are in 1u on the syringe type you are using:
  • Draw the insulin dose as you normally do (drawing a little excess) and flick out the bubbles.
  • Slowly push the plunger in and expel insulin until you are close to but still in a little excess of the current dose.
  • Turn the calipers on, make sure you have selected mm (the "mm" will be in the lower left corner of the screen), push the caliper head all the way down so the arms are together and then hit the "zero" button to zero them out.
  • Move the caliper head in the opposite direction to "dial" in your mm setting that is equivalent to your dose. When the correct distance measure shows on the screen, tighten the screw down. Double check the number shown in the screen and make sure it hasn't changed (sometimes tightening the screw will cause the number to go up or down by .01). Once you have set the distance for a specific dose (e.g. on the Terumos, 1.52mm for 1u), then you do not need to change it unless you change the dose. If you change the dose, zero out the calipers again and then reset for the new measurement associated with your new dose.
  • In order to use the calipers correctly, the bottom of the upper caliper arm should line up perfectly with the plastic rings around the syringes where the zero line would be (the plastic ring might be located differently in syringes other than Terumos and Monojects). It might be off just a tad in the photos below but hopefully you will get the idea. Then the top of the bottom arm of the caliper should line up flush with the top of the plunger. Again...the Terumo is way off in the photo but the Monoject is pretty close so you can imagine what the Terumo should look like.
  • If you are using BD syringes, you will use the outside edges of the small arms measure the dose.
D6E8E747-CEFF-48A6-952D-F29D6010AFA8.png

TERUMO SYRINGE (above)

5623E7DB-9006-453A-8895-9D2D3AC7FF99.png

MONOJECT SYRINGE (above)
  • Be sure you do not confuse millimeters and dose!!! For example, 1.52mm is NOT 1.5u. You must calculate the millimeters equated with a particular dose following the instructions above.
  • Please be sure and record the dose in the "U" column on the SS as "units". Please do not record the mm setting in the "U" column. We all measure a little differently and the syringes differ in barrel circumference, etc, so your mm measurement is likely different from mine; the important part is you are consistent with your measurements. A "mm" measurement in the "U" dose column tells us nothing about dose and providing good dosing suggestions becomes impossible (and unsafe). If you want to record the caliper measurement on your SS, please either make a separate column that distinctly labels it or, better yet, put it in the remarks section. It is really only to assist you, not anyone helping you.
  • Remember that when you are using calipers, you do not need to worry about the unit marking lines. I usually double check and just make sure my dose measured with the calipers is in the vicinity of the correct unit marking. In other words, if the current dose is 1u and you measure it with the calipers but when you look at the syringe, the plunger is near 2u, there is something wrong.
Thanks very much to members who contributed syringe measurement data or sent me syringes to measure.

If you have any questions or need any help, please be sure and ask. Many members are using calipers and can help or you can PM me. :D :D
 
Last edited:
Re: Dosing With Calipers

AMAZING!!! Thank you Marje!! This is very helpful! I've been thinking seriously about getting a caliper but I wasn't 100% sure I'd even know what to do once I had one. Ok, I know that sounds a bit dumb, but I've only seen calipers used to measure the ID of pipes. Pictures speak a thousand words for sure!

Thanks, as always, for teaching the community!!! You are so very cherished!
 
Re: Dosing With Calipers

Thanks for the pic Marje! It's very clear & crisp.
I am using the BG syringe, the pastic top is a bit different from the syringe here. The BD plastic forms a ring around the top of the syringe at the zero marking. I have to use the smaller opening side of the caliper to take the measurement instead of what you show in the pic because the bigger side cannot align against the syringe.
 
Re: Dosing With Calipers

You are all welcome.

Aah, Deb!!! Thank you!!!!

Helen...if you look closely, you will see a plastic ring around both of these where the zero marking should be. That's where I have the bottom of the top arm of the caliper.
 
Re: Dosing With Calipers

Thank you Marje. I had an idea but wasn't sure how it was used. I'm thinking of getting a calipers.

Do you pre-mark your syringes for dose o just hold it up to the wsyringe when ready?

Melanie & Racci
 
Re: Dosing With Calipers

I'm also considering using calipers. So, the flat edge of the top of arm of the calipers needs to be level with the top of the line, and how do you measure the correct dose with them? I have several syringes which are inconsistent with being level at the beginning line (the top of the plunger being level, that is). Hope that makes sense. I'd like to be a bit more precise with her doses than off a drop or 2.
 
Re: Dosing With Calipers

I think I've figured out how to measure. I would need to premeasure the syringe first to the exact spot where her dose would need to be, draw like normal, and then gradually push plunger to meet where the level part of the bottom arm rests on the correct dose. I think that's how you measure... Correct me if I'm wrong. LOL
 
Re: Dosing With Calipers

Thanks Marje, these pics look very clear and it is easy to follow what you are doing. We finally got the technique down with the callipers and are continuing to use the MJ syringes. Using the calipers to confirm our "eye-ball" works great to relieve our anxiety over the poor quality of syringes for micro-dosing. It cut our time for preparing a shot in half! And we don't stress about this anymore. We never would have known about the calipers at all without you! :YMHUG:
 
Re: Dosing With Calipers

Thank you so much for the pictures! We are thinking about it too, since Leo seems to be so very sensitive to dose, and I'm trying to get better at counting drops. This seems like it will make the process more repeatable and quicker to do correctly.

You're a great resource - thanks! :-D
 
Re: Dosing With Calipers

Yes, thanks to you Marje for the caliper idea. It took me a few days to get used to them, but now I just grab a syringe and don't even have to worry where the zero line is on any given syringe, anymore. One less worry in my day, is good.
 
Re: Dosing With Calipers

Marje: Thank you to you and Mike for taking these photos! They are very clear! Job well done, and much appreciated! Now, one of these days I'm going to have to make the time to go to Harbor Freight and get some calipers and start trying to learn how to use them. That would make life so much simpler.

Suze
 
Re: Dosing With Calipers

I am a huuuge fan of the calipers and I also use the Terumo syringes. My dosing has been far more consistent and I don't worry so much anymore (always gotta worry jut a little, don't we?). Thank you Marje for the information! Calipers are super easy to use and well worth the peace of mind.

Just a tip: the shipping from Harbor Freight seems to be a bit slow. I ordered mine 2-day and they showed up in 4 :-|
 
Re: Dosing With Calipers

You are all very welcome!! Anything I can do to help us all get more consistency in dosing due to the inaccuracy of the syringes. Not all cats are sensitive to small changes but some are, including mine. I added the link to the Harbor Freight calipers in the first post with the pics in case anyone needs it.

Angela & Blackie & 8 Others said:
I think I've figured out how to measure. I would need to premeasure the syringe first to the exact spot where her dose would need to be, draw like normal, and then gradually push plunger to meet where the level part of the bottom arm rests on the correct dose. I think that's how you measure... Correct me if I'm wrong. LOL

Angela...yes....draw in your syringe what you think is a "perfect" dose. Then measure it using the calipers as shown above. The bottom of the top arm needs to line up exactly with where the plunger rests against the needle side of the syringe. The top of the bottom arm will line up exactly with your dose.
 
Re: Dosing With Calipers

I'm just now seeing this post and it excites me so much. Now I have to go practice using my calipers. Hmmm...cook dinner first or play with calipers?! Thank you, Marje & Mike! As usual, you guys are a wealth of knowledge and kind enough to share with the rest of us. Thank you!!!
 
Marje, thank you for this information. Unfortunately, I am unable to view the videos. Has anyone else had this problem?
 
Laura

Not that I know of. I'm having some other members see if they can see them. I have them set to "unlisted" so anyone with the link should be able to see them. i don't want to set them as "public" on youtube because of my concern how someone not in LL would use them.

I'll stay on it until you all can see them. Thanks for letting me know.
 
Well darn it. Just my luck. Once the connection's made I just get a blank page. Not even any kind of error message. ohmygod_smile

Update: I am now able to see the videos. Thanks Marje! You Rock!
 
Marje these pictures and directions are really good. I appreciate what you have done and are doing for us every day!! Thank you so much. :YMHUG:
 
FYI: The German-Katzen Board created a paper template for fine dosing with BD syringes.
The template is included in this document:

You can print it out for your own use. However, please be aware the template is for those using BD Micro-Fine + Demi 0.3-mL U-100 syringes only.
 

Attachments

Has anyone ever tried microdosing by weight? Fairly accurate digital scales (not kitchen type scales, think finer scales for reloading or chemical use) are fairly inexpensive these days. Anyone tried it? Is there enough difference in weight between 0.25 u and 0.5 u of Lantus to accurately dose? If so, you could just weigh the syringe, zero the scale out, and then weigh your dose. That would take the variations between syringes (their marking and different weights) out of the equation.

Just ordered a scale with o.o1 g precision. I hope that will work or I'll try one with 0.001 g precision. Too bad I don't have lab access at this moment or I'd go use one of their fancy scales to figure out the precision I need and if this will work.
 
Last edited:
I would imagine the syringes would also vary by weight. They are made by a machine. I think it would twke more time to do what you are proposing but it might be interesting to see what you find.
 
Has anyone ever tried microdosing by weight? Fairly accurate digital scales (not kitchen type scales, think finer scales for reloading or chemical use) are fairly inexpensive these days. Anyone tried it? Is there enough difference in weight between 0.25 u and 0.5 u of Lantus to accurately dose? If so, you could just weigh the syringe, zero the scale out, and then weigh your dose. That would take the variations between syringes (their marking and different weights) out of the equation.

Just ordered a scale with o.o1 g precision. I hope that will work or I'll try one with 0.001 g precision. Too bad I don't have lab access at this moment or I'd go use one of their fancy scales to figure out the precision I need and if this will work.

I have one of those scales that I use for weighing Max's medications since his pills are impossible to cut. I just tried to weigh the syringe but the part where you place what you want to weigh is too small. Every time I tried to weigh the syringe I got different results.
 
Lab-quality scales that can weigh less than 1 mg cost thousands of dollars. If we assume that Lantus has the same density as water (likely it does not), then 1 unit of Lantus (10 microL) would weigh 10 mg. That's not something that a consumer-grade scale could weigh accurately.
 
I would imagine the syringes would also vary by weight. They are made by a machine. I think it would twke more time to do what you are proposing but it might be interesting to see what you find.
Thanks. As far as the different weights of individual syringes, that's why you place the empty syringe on the scale first and press the tare/zero button. Then, when you add insulin, the scale automatically subtracts the weight of that particular syringe and shows just the weight of the insulin.
I have one of those scales that I use for weighing Max's medications since his pills are impossible to cut. I just tried to weigh the syringe but the part where you place what you want to weigh is too small. Every time I tried to weigh the syringe I got different results.
How big is the weighing platform on yout scale? The scale that I bought should be large enough to fit the syringes I use, which will help to get more consistent results(I hope). Also, some scales are more accurate than others. Have you ever calibrated your scale? That sometimes helps with accuracy. Although, if it accurately weighs things that do fit on the platform, I wouldn't worry about calibrating it. Thanks for trying it out with the scale you have.
 
Lab-quality scales that can weigh less than 1 mg cost thousands of dollars. If we assume that Lantus has the same density as water (likely it does not), then 1 unit of Lantus (10 microL) would weigh 10 mg. That's not something that a consumer-grade scale could weigh accurately.
100 u Lantus/ml, according to Lantus people (telephone call with transfer to a lab guy) use same density as water 1 g/ml, which gives 1 u =0.01g (10 mg, as you stated, please correct my math if I slipped again as I've had very little sleep lately). So one 1/4 u = 0.0025 g.

The scale I ordered last night was off by an order of magnitude (it was late, I slipped a decimal place), but the one I ordered today will measure to a tolerance of 0.001 g with a large enough platform for the syringe ($23.00 US). I've haven't tried it yet, but "in theory," at least, it should work. For the last 0.0005, you may be able to get close by getting the scale to flip between 0.002 g and 0.003 g (hopefully it will be sensitive enough to do this). I'm hoping this will give better, or at least equal, reliability to using calipers or drop dosing. It's got to be better than my eyeball and magnifying glass method.

Now to see if I have the manual dexterity to do this accurately. For my next trick, I will build a robot to control the plunger of the syringe (just joking). Or perhaps I should start trawling the scientific surplus and used equipment sites for used lab grade scales.

(Just noticed you're from Worcester, MA. I went to grad school there. How's the snow been doing?)
 
Last edited:
I calibrated the scale when I got it and it works well for the meds. It's the AWS DIA-20. It's supposed to be accurate to 0.001g,

http://wholesale-scales.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=363
Thanks for showing me what you're using. Since the weighing platform is only 1 3/8" diameter, it would be difficult to balance a syringe firmly on that and get an accurate weight. You could try balancing a card or piece of cardstock on the platform to try to get a larger somewhat more stable platform. See if that helps.
 
I work in a lab, and when I want to put something in a test tube and get its weight, I put that test tube in a small cup so it stands upright. The scale I use for tiny amounts has 4 digits and can actually go to 5 digits, but I do not trust anything under 1 mg. Knowing that Lantus is similar enough to water in terms of density makes the math easy. You are correct in that 0.25U would be 2.5uL or 2.5 mg. There are glass microsyringes that will accurately measure these tiny volumes, but the problem is they would have to be sterilized after each use, and the needles for them are *not* the itty bitty skinny insulin needles. If someone would just figure out a proper diluent for Lantus that does not affect its chemical properties, all of this microdosing would be a nonissue. I believe some insulins have specific diluents for use in small children, but I don't know of any for Lantus.

Yes, Worcester really got buried this year, and it's not over yet...
 
Oh it would be so much easier if insulin was a colored, not clear, solution!!!
It's been suggested that one can make a reference syringe with food coloring (easier to see) and then just compare each syringe you fill with insulin to the colored reference syringe.
 
FYI: The German-Katzen Board created a paper template for fine dosing with BD syringes.
The template is included in this document:

You can print it out for your own use. However, please be aware the template is for those using BD Micro-Fine + Demi 0.3-mL U-100 syringes only.

I find this template of dosages print out in the link extremely helpful (I do use BD) and think all newbies would also. I ordered calipers and they are gret but this sheet of paper is so easy and practically guarantees quick and consistent dosing. I'm back to the link to print more so I can laminate one or two. I'm dosing 1 1/2 U so I'm not really into the microdosing yet But planning ahead, I ordered the calipers. Fingers crossed I can use them!
 
FYI: The German-Katzen Board created a paper template for fine dosing with BD syringes.
The template is included in this document:

You can print it out for your own use. However, please be aware the template is for those using BD Micro-Fine + Demi 0.3-mL U-100 syringes only.

Shoot.....I cannot find the template only the report? Did that link get moved?
 
That's what I had my copy place do so they printed it on longer paper with A4 setting and then cut and laminated it. Comparing it to the one I printed with settings for standard paper, there is quite a bit of difference in the larger amounts. The top row of smaller measurements appears identical.
 
Marje, I think I have the idea of how to do the measurements with the calipers once you know the ml per unit. But my question is how do you figure that out?
<----Scientifically challenged here.
 
Be sure the calipers are on millimeters. Which syringes do you use? If it's BDs, you might want to PM @Wendy&Neko as she has the measurements for BDs. If it's Terumos, I've provided them above.

For any others, find as many syringes as you can where the zero line is exactly where it should be (when you press the plunger in, the needle side of the plunger should line up perfectly with top of the needle side of the zero mark). Once you have several, measure how many millimeters are in 1u. Then divide by ten. So if 1u measures 1.6mm, than every 0.1u change will be done by adjusting the calipers 0.16 mm.

Does that help?
 
I think so. I was trying to think about the diameter of the syringe and some complicated formulas, making it more difficult than it should have been. As usual! I use the Relion 3/10 100 u.
 
It's very simple and straight forward. You don't need to worry about diameter. I don't have any measurements for the Relion. I'm sorry.
 
No problem. My husband is a HUGE fan of Harbor Freight. Especially since we just had a new one open and get coupons almost every week for free stuff. Will probably have him hit them up this week and see what we can find.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top