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Emma and Solomon

Emma and Solomon

Member Since 2022
Can someone have a look at Solomon's SS and give me some advice please?

Basically I messed up last night and accidentally gave him 5U instead of 4.25U..

When drawing his insulin I usually pull back to 5 then twist the syringe up little by little to get rid of air and get the dose as accurate as possible.. Last night had 5u (minus a very small air bubble at the top) in the syringe about to adjust when Solomon jumped off the table and made his escape out of the back door so I put the syringe down, retrieved him from the back garden and got his grumpy butt back on the table then gave him his shot. It wasn't until I was placing the syringe in the sharps bin that I realised I didn't get rid of the excess! Went for a little 2 hour nap and got up for a night of testing, thankfully the lowest he went was 5.2mmol/L (94) but that was his first ever green number so was still a little scary to me lol!

AMPS is 10.6 (191) and I don't really know what I should give him? I was actually planning on increasing to 4.5U today as I'm not getting much movement on with 4.25 since he has went off his 1.9% wet food and refuses all other low carb apart from one that is 6%. I even tried no dry food at all for yesterdays AM cycle and bizarrely it seemed to make his bg worse.

I'm home all day and have plenty of test strips so can test as frequently as required.

Thanks in advance for any help!
 
Hi Emma,
It looks like Solomon did quite well on the unintended dose of 5.0u, but as the recommended dose increase is 0.25u i would do as you intended and increase his dose from 4.25u to 4.5u and keep him on that for 6 cycles to see how he gets on with that unless he drops too low.
As this is a new increase i would try and get checks at +2 +3 +4 and +6 to see how he's getting on with his new dose.
 
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I definitely agree on getting all of those mid cycle tests in that @Teetee (UK) recommended. I would also make sure that he is eating really well this morning. I would give planned snacks throughout the cycle. What did you decide to do. That preshot number is quite a bit lower than your normal preshot. Tee, do you think this could be from the higher dose that was accidentally given last night... normally, ProZinc doesn't last that long, but it CAN do sometimes.
 
Emma and Solomon said:
Can someone have a look at Solomon's SS and give me some advice please?

Basically I messed up last night and accidentally gave him 5U instead of 4.25U..

When drawing his insulin I usually pull back to 5 then twist the syringe up little by little to get rid of air and get the dose as accurate as possible.. Last night had 5u (minus a very small air bubble at the top) in the syringe about to adjust when Solomon jumped off the table and made his escape out of the back door so I put the syringe down, retrieved him from the back garden and got his grumpy butt back on the table then gave him his shot. It wasn't until I was placing the syringe in the sharps bin that I realised I didn't get rid of the excess! Went for a little 2 hour nap and got up for a night of testing, thankfully the lowest he went was 5.2mmol/L (94) but that was his first ever green number so was still a little scary to me lol!

AMPS is 10.6 (191) and I don't really know what I should give him? I was actually planning on increasing to 4.5U today as I'm not getting much movement on with 4.25 since he has went off his 1.9% wet food and refuses all other low carb apart from one that is 6%. I even tried no dry food at all for yesterdays AM cycle and bizarrely it seemed to make his bg worse.

I'm home all day and have plenty of test strips so can test as frequently as required.

Thanks in advance for any help!
Click to expand...
In addition -- you have/had the option to stall and not feed (if you haven't done so yet.... and retest in 20-30 minutes and see if Solomon is flat or rising... then you will have some peace of mind there. I like this option for ProZinc -- if your schedule will accommodate it.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I definitely agree on getting all of those mid cycle tests in that @Teetee (UK) recommended. I would also make sure that he is eating really well this morning. I would give planned snacks throughout the cycle. What did you decide to do. That preshot number is quite a bit lower than your normal preshot. Tee, do you think this could be from the higher dose that was accidentally given last night... normally, ProZinc doesn't last that long, but it CAN do sometimes.
Click to expand...

Yes the low preshot is probably from last nights dose as it was 0.75u more than usual but not enough to drop him too low and shock his system, but he enjoyed it and hit a safe green but the same dose today would have dropped him way too low.
He did rise sharply after PM+10 to AMPS so he was on the way back up.
I saw that Emma gave Solomon his full 4.25u on the 13th at a slightly higher 12.7mmol/L (229 mg/dl) and he didn't drop much and his PMPS was higher so i think he needs the extra 0.25u.
 
Emma and Solomon said:
Can someone have a look at Solomon's SS and give me some advice please?

Basically I messed up last night and accidentally gave him 5U instead of 4.25U..

When drawing his insulin I usually pull back to 5 then twist the syringe up little by little to get rid of air and get the dose as accurate as possible.. Last night had 5u (minus a very small air bubble at the top) in the syringe about to adjust when Solomon jumped off the table and made his escape out of the back door so I put the syringe down, retrieved him from the back garden and got his grumpy butt back on the table then gave him his shot. It wasn't until I was placing the syringe in the sharps bin that I realised I didn't get rid of the excess! Went for a little 2 hour nap and got up for a night of testing, thankfully the lowest he went was 5.2mmol/L (94) but that was his first ever green number so was still a little scary to me lol!

AMPS is 10.6 (191) and I don't really know what I should give him? I was actually planning on increasing to 4.5U today as I'm not getting much movement on with 4.25 since he has went off his 1.9% wet food and refuses all other low carb apart from one that is 6%. I even tried no dry food at all for yesterdays AM cycle and bizarrely it seemed to make his bg worse.

I'm home all day and have plenty of test strips so can test as frequently as required.

Thanks in advance for any help!
Click to expand...
I can tag a prozinc user for you
Melissa
@FrostD
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I can't see what you ended up shooting today, but I hope all is well. I checked your spreadsheet a few times to makes sure everything was good, but I didn't see any data for today. :bighug:
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I am so sorry guys! @Teetee (UK) I have just come on to thank you for your advice this morning and to give you a little update and just seen all these replies :eek: I replied to you when you first posted (or at least I thought I did) but I must have not hit post or something as I can't see my reply. For some reason rather than actually coming on to check I have kept an eye on my emails today incase anyone responded, after seeing all these replies I went back to check wondering why I only had the one notification from this morning and I've just learned that I don't get a notification for every reply if I haven't viewed the thread Sorry I am barely a person today after my 2 hours of sleep last night lol.

I took your advice this morning and went ahead with the increase, felt pretty comfortable doing so as I've noticed a pattern of him rising between pre shot and around +3. Got +5,+6,+7 as I'm playing our new game of "where's nadir" :joyful:. It seems to change constantly, I got the most random 6.1 @ +11 a couple of days ago. Maybe a stupid question but would it be changing due to meals? Like how much he eats and when?

I agree he seemed to cope well with the accidental 5u, I never thought the colour green could bring me such terror and excitement at the same time lol. Will stick with the 4.5 and see what happens. Thank you again for your advice and for checking in! :bighug:

His SS wouldn't let me edit so had to clear data, uninstall etc but it should hopefully show as being updated now
 
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Emma and Solomon said:
I am so sorry!

I am so sorry I have just come on to thank you for your advice this morning and to give you a little update and just seen all these replies :eek: I replied to you when you first posted (or at least I thought I did) but I must have not hit post or something as I can't see my reply. For some reason rather than actually coming on to check I have kept an eye on my emails today incase anyone responded, after seeing all these replies I went back to check wondering why I only had the one notification from this morning and I've just learned that I don't get a notification for every reply if I haven't viewed the thread Sorry I am barely a person today after my 2 hours of sleep last night lol.

I took your advice this morning and went ahead with the increase, felt pretty comfortable doing so as I've noticed a pattern of him rising between pre shot and around +3. Got +5,+6,+7 as I'm playing our new game of "where's nadir" :joyful:. It seems to change constantly, I got the most random 6.1 @ +11 a couple of days ago. Maybe a stupid question but would it be changing due to meals? Like how much he eats and when?

I agree he seemed to cope well with the accidental 5u, I never thought the colour green could bring me such terror and excitement at the same time lol. Will stick with the 4.5 and see what happens. Thank you again for your advice and for checking in! :bighug:

His SS wouldn't let me edit so had to clear data, uninstall etc but it should hopefully show as being updated now
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Oh, that's great. I now see he did just fine today on the new dose (even with that lower preshot.) I am very pleased. @Teetee (UK) did you see that? If you haven't melted down completely from today's heat, then I thought you might want to take a peek at the spreadsheet. As for that late nadir you mentioned at +11, I would think that yes, what he is eating and when does play into the numbers (nadirs) a lot -- especially how many carbs he's eating at certain times. Since I don't know what he is eating and when, I'm not sure about that day. Seems like you are all over finding out the moving target of his nadir though :-) Tee is a master at the feeding his cat, Duke, through the cycles, and I would take any advice that he has to offer.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Oh, that's great. I now see he did just fine today on the new dose (even with that lower preshot.) I am very pleased. @Teetee (UK) did you see that? If you haven't melted down completely from today's heat, then I thought you might want to take a peek at the spreadsheet. As for that late nadir you mentioned at +11, I would think that yes, what he is eating and when does play into the numbers (nadirs) a lot -- especially how many carbs he's eating at certain times. Since I don't know what he is eating and when, I'm not sure about that day. Seems like you are all over finding out the moving target of his nadir though :) Tee is a master at the feeding his cat, Duke, through the cycles, and I would take any advice that he has to offer.
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Thank you for tagging! (I was just away checking the how to guides so I could edit the post to thank @Teetee (UK) for the advice haha).

Oh I thought I was going to melt today and I'm in Glasgow so didn't even have the worst of it!

I will take any and all advice about food I can get lol. Its the one thing about all this that causes me nothing but stress and frustration since Solomon is the most finicky cat ever :banghead: He has decided he no longer likes the 2% wet food he had been eating and is now eating 6% wet instead, he still gets a little Thrive 9% dry food but the last couple days I have been substituting some dry with a cold pressed food that is 3.5% to try to balance things out.

Thanks again for your help!
 
Hi Emma,
I see Solomon has done fine with his increase and even hit a blue, :)
If at all possible Emma could you try and keep up with Solomons spreadsheet please so's that we can keep referring back to it and checking on his progress.
There is also this thread created by @Elizabeth and Bertie specifically created for UK members with loads and loads of valuable information and there is also a link in there with a long list of low carb UK foods.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-vit-b12-and-other-need-to-know-stuff.137376/
UK food list.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J5JpMe6TDXrHq_aTl9hUtHy6Gs9oRBqlz4nPGKxtySA/pubhtml#
Also there is this cat food carb convertor, i always double check any food bought with this because manufacturers can and do change their ingredients.
https://secure.balanceit.com/tools/_gaconverter/index.php?

Can i ask what and when and how much you are feeding Solomon and also how's appetite and his weight?

This is our feeding routine with Duke, he weighs 6 kilo.
Test him at 6:40am and feed him 115 grams of Sheba straight away and wait until he's finished and then give him his insulin, usually at 6:55am.
We will give him 10 grams of food at AM+3,4 and sometimes +5 if he wants it and nothing else again at all throughout the day until supper time.
At 6:35pm we test him and feed him 115 grams of Sheba straight away and wait until he's finished then give him his insulin, usually 6:50pm.
Again we will offer him 10 grams of food at PM+3 and 4, we don't bother with the +5 in PM cycle.
We also add 25mls of water to his AM/PM food and 5mls in his snacks just to keep him hydrated.
The trick is to make sure that they are very hungry come shot time which Duke mostly always is.
We make sure he always eats his breakfast and supper or at least 90% of it before his shot.
Sometimes he's just not that hungry which is a problem with diabetic cats as they must eat before their insulin, but if he struggles we get his favourite roast chicken out and place it strategically in his food and while he's finding the chicken he's also eating the Sheba.
Other times on rare occasions he just flatly refuses to eat everything so we hold back on the insulin and wait a while to see if he eat's or if not we give him a reduced dose.
If Duke drops too low during the cycle then the mini meals will increase to steer him or we will give give a few grams of medium to High carb food
If Duke is running higher than normal then i will just simply just skip some of the mini meals to stop him from rising higher, like today for example.
Consistency and a strict routine work really well for us and Duke in keeping him in safe numbers.
 
Teetee (UK) said:
Hi Emma,
I see Solomon has done fine with his increase and even hit a blue, :)
If at all possible Emma could you try and keep up with Solomons spreadsheet please so's that we can keep referring back to it and checking on his progress.
There is also this thread created by @Elizabeth and Bertie specifically created for UK members with loads and loads of valuable information and there is also a link in there with a long list of low carb UK foods.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-vit-b12-and-other-need-to-know-stuff.137376/
UK food list.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J5JpMe6TDXrHq_aTl9hUtHy6Gs9oRBqlz4nPGKxtySA/pubhtml#
Also there is this cat food carb convertor, i always double check any food bought with this because manufacturers can and do change their ingredients.
https://secure.balanceit.com/tools/_gaconverter/index.php?

Can i ask what and when and how much you are feeding Solomon and also how's appetite and his weight?

This is our feeding routine with Duke, he weighs 6 kilo.
Test him at 6:40am and feed him 115 grams of Sheba straight away and wait until he's finished and then give him his insulin, usually at 6:55am.
We will give him 10 grams of food at AM+3,4 and sometimes +5 if he wants it and nothing else again at all throughout the day until supper time.
At 6:35pm we test him and feed him 115 grams of Sheba straight away and wait until he's finished then give him his insulin, usually 6:50pm.
Again we will offer him 10 grams of food at PM+3 and 4, we don't bother with the +5 in PM cycle.
We also add 25mls of water to his AM/PM food and 5mls in his snacks just to keep him hydrated.
The trick is to make sure that they are very hungry come shot time which Duke mostly always is.
We make sure he always eats his breakfast and supper or at least 90% of it before his shot.
Sometimes he's just not that hungry which is a problem with diabetic cats as they must eat before their insulin, but if he struggles we get his favourite roast chicken out and place it strategically in his food and while he's finding the chicken he's also eating the Sheba.
Other times on rare occasions he just flatly refuses to eat everything so we hold back on the insulin and wait a while to see if he eat's or if not we give him a reduced dose.
If Duke drops too low during the cycle then the mini meals will increase to steer him or we will give give a few grams of medium to High carb food
If Duke is running higher than normal then i will just simply just skip some of the mini meals to stop him from rising higher, like today for example.
Consistency and a strict routine work really well for us and Duke in keeping him in safe numbers.
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Thank you!

Will make sure I keep up with the spreadsheet, tried to put numbers in last night and it was showing as read only again. I've figured out clearing app data fixes it so should be able to keep it up to date!

I use the calculator and food list a lot. We are working through the food list trying to find something fussy Solomon will eat consistently or even like at all really. I ordered £70 of different brands under 5% food from the list last week and he will not touch any of them :arghh:

Solomon is 9.5kg, he was just shy of 11kg when I adopted him and it has taken 2 years to get him to 9.5! His vet said an ideal weight for him would be between 7-8kg. What he eats honestly changes constantly as he will only eat the same wet food for a week or 2 then will refuse it and go straight to his dry food so I have to keep rotating different food. He also never finishes a meal in one sitting I would say he probaby eats about 30/40g at a time.

For the past week it has been- 40g of Gourmet savoury cake (6.6% carbs) for breakfast with insulin at 10am then the other 45g at about +2/+3 then +6/+7 I give him 75g of Blink (1.7%) he usually eats about half of it and will go back to it before all his food is lifted +10. At PM shot he gets 85g of Savoury cake that he will graze on between insulin time and +3 then I bin whatever he hasn't eaten and put 40g of Sheba fine flakes upstairs for him to graze on while I'm in bed (mostly because I have 80 pouches in the cupboard and he will eat it out of laziness rather than going downstairs for dry food lol) He gets 40g of dry food per day to graze (Currently half Thrive chicken 9.5% and half Beutenah cold pressed food 3.5%), how much of the dry he eats depends on how much wet I have managed to get him to eat but he very rarely eats the whole 40g per day. He never fully finishes all of the above and I end up binning it after its been sitting for a few hours.

If he refuses food at insulin time I give him a 50g Sheba fresh & fine in gravy (8.5%) since he eats that whenever it's offered. He ate much more when he was on Caninsulin but since changing to Prozinc trying to get him to finish anything is difficult! He doesn't like chicken unfortunately I have tried many variations of meat/cooking method and even tried blending chicken thighs until they looked like the lick-e-lix yogurts he loves and he wouldn't touch it :banghead: Also won't eat any fish fresh or cooked even sardines, he will lick tuna water off tuna and then leave it! I have some Hugz raw food in the freezer I might try again to transition him to that or I've been thinking about trying Katkin too.

Duke sounds like a very cooperative boy! 115g in one sitting?! There are days that Solomon won't eat for 6 hours before his insulin and will still barely eat 40g in one go.

Thank you for your help and for sharing your food schedule! I'm gonna have to work on consistency and I'll maybe try no food after +5 and see if that will make him eat more with his insulin! I have a timed feeder on the way and I'm hoping I'm able to get him using that by the time I'm back at work in a couple weeks then I can cut dry out completely.
 
Emma and Solomon said:
Thank you!

Will make sure I keep up with the spreadsheet, tried to put numbers in last night and it was showing as read only again. I've figured out clearing app data fixes it so should be able to keep it up to date!

I use the calculator and food list a lot. We are working through the food list trying to find something fussy Solomon will eat consistently or even like at all really. I ordered £70 of different brands under 5% food from the list last week and he will not touch any of them :arghh:

Solomon is 9.5kg, he was just shy of 11kg when I adopted him and it has taken 2 years to get him to 9.5! His vet said an ideal weight for him would be between 7-8kg. What he eats honestly changes constantly as he will only eat the same wet food for a week or 2 then will refuse it and go straight to his dry food so I have to keep rotating different food. He also never finishes a meal in one sitting I would say he probaby eats about 30/40g at a time.

For the past week it has been- 40g of Gourmet savoury cake (6.6% carbs) for breakfast with insulin at 10am then the other 45g at about +2/+3 then +6/+7 I give him 75g of Blink (1.7%) he usually eats about half of it and will go back to it before all his food is lifted +10. At PM shot he gets 85g of Savoury cake that he will graze on between insulin time and +3 then I bin whatever he hasn't eaten and put 40g of Sheba fine flakes upstairs for him to graze on while I'm in bed (mostly because I have 80 pouches in the cupboard and he will eat it out of laziness rather than going downstairs for dry food lol) He gets 40g of dry food per day to graze (Currently half Thrive chicken 9.5% and half Beutenah cold pressed food 3.5%), how much of the dry he eats depends on how much wet I have managed to get him to eat but he very rarely eats the whole 40g per day. He never fully finishes all of the above and I end up binning it after its been sitting for a few hours.

If he refuses food at insulin time I give him a 50g Sheba fresh & fine in gravy (8.5%) since he eats that whenever it's offered. He ate much more when he was on Caninsulin but since changing to Prozinc trying to get him to finish anything is difficult! He doesn't like chicken unfortunately I have tried many variations of meat/cooking method and even tried blending chicken thighs until they looked like the lick-e-lix yogurts he loves and he wouldn't touch it :banghead: Also won't eat any fish fresh or cooked even sardines, he will lick tuna water off tuna and then leave it! I have some Hugz raw food in the freezer I might try again to transition him to that or I've been thinking about trying Katkin too.

Duke sounds like a very cooperative boy! 115g in one sitting?! There are days that Solomon won't eat for 6 hours before his insulin and will still barely eat 40g in one go.

Thank you for your help and for sharing your food schedule! I'm gonna have to work on consistency and I'll maybe try no food after +5 and see if that will make him eat more with his insulin! I have a timed feeder on the way and I'm hoping I'm able to get him using that by the time I'm back at work in a couple weeks then I can cut dry out completely.
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Hi Emma
Spending a fortune, lol tell me about it.
Solomon's a big lad and probably does need to lose more weight for health reasons.
I've noticed that you feed him Gourmet savoury cake which is very high in calories as are the Thrive, Beutenah, Hug and Katkin.
Perhaps try and reduce his calorie intake by giving him a lower calorie low carb food and try to wean him of the dry food as it really not good for him and too filling.
The higher calorie food is keeping him fuller for longer so he's not too fussy about eating a full meal at shot time, you think about it Emma, if you eat a high calorie dinner you are full for ages whereas if you eat a lower calorie meal like a salad you're hungry again in no time and ready for your next meal but you are still getting your nutrients.
I have worked out from what you have said that Solomon eats roughly 400 calories per day, that way too much if you need him to lose weight.
Looking at these figures i would say he eating about 100 cals per day to much for him to get to 8kg as the vet wanted.
2 tins of gourmet gold = 200 cals
40g sheba = 28 cals
37g blink = 25 cals
thrive and Beutenah combined = 146 cals
total daily = 400 calories

I used these cat calorie calculators to determine the figures to get to ideal weight.
https://www.petplace.com/article/ca...late-your-cats-daily-calorie-intake/#section4
https://petnutritionalliance.org/cat.php
I'm sure with more weight loss his BG will get better and will probably need a lower dose as you reduce his food intake.
Also if it were me i would cut out the +6/7 blink meal as this is filling him prior to pre shot.
Lol, the webbox lick e lix is very high in carbs and like Solomon Duke loves it, but he only ever gets it when he's dropping too low.
 
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Teetee (UK) said:
Hi Emma
Spending a fortune, lol tell me about it.
Solomon's a big lad and probably does need to lose more weight for health reasons.
I've noticed that you feed him Gourmet savoury cake which is very high in calories as are the Thrive, Beutenah, Hug and Katkin.
Perhaps try and reduce his calorie intake by giving him a lower calorie low carb food and try to wean him of the dry food as it really not good for him and too filling.
The higher calorie food is keeping him fuller for longer so he's not too fussy about eating a full meal at shot time, you think about it Emma, if you eat a high calorie dinner you are full for ages whereas if you eat a lower calorie meal like a salad you're hungry again in no time and ready for your next meal but you are still getting your nutrients.
I have worked out from what you have said that Solomon eats roughly 400 calories per day, that way too much if you need him to lose weight.
Looking at these figures i would say he eating about 100 cals per day to much for him to get to 8kg as the vet wanted.
2 tins of gourmet gold = 200 cals
40g sheba = 28 cals
37g blink = 25 cals
thrive and Beutenah combined = 146 cals
total daily = 400 calories

I used these cat calorie calculators to determine the figures to get to ideal weight.
https://www.petplace.com/article/ca...late-your-cats-daily-calorie-intake/#section4
https://petnutritionalliance.org/cat.php
I'm sure with more weight loss his BG will get better and will probably need a lower dose as you reduce his food intake.
Also if it were me i would cut out the +6/7 blink meal as this is filling him prior to pre shot.
Lol, the webbox lick e lix is very high in carbs and like Solomon Duke loves it, but he only ever gets it when he's dropping too low.
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Omg thank you so much! I really appreciate you taking the time to work all that out and explain it to me! I am still amazed by how kind and helpful everyone here is.

I will be honest, since he was diagnosed weight loss has been the least of my concerns and I haven't been looking at calories or anything other than carbs in food since then, we still go for a nightly walk for exercise but even that has been shorter than it used to be!
I kept reading that a diabetic cat is basically starving and to feed unregulated cats as much as they will eat and I guess I haven't really stopped that. 400?! :eek: it's good he doesn't finish it all then, I binned half of yesterdays food since the heat made his appetite even worse than usual. I didn't realise savoury cake was that high in calories, he wouldn't touch it last night or this morning so we will be on to a different food yet again anyway. He had 50g of Sheba Fresh & Fine which is 41kcal but 8.5% carbs this morning.

He would honestly do anything for a lick e lix, he is obsessed! Ive tried tricking him with blended low carb food but he will not be fooled! I used a HORRIFYING amount of lick e lix when I was learning to test, he was basically getting 1 tube for every test and injection for the first week and half a tube each time for a few weeks after:oops::oops: Do you know of any low carb alternatives? I still use them for testing since they are the only thing that keeps him still but it's now less than half a tea spoon of lick e lix mixed with about 2 tea spoons of water smeared on a plate so a tube lasts a couple of days depending on how often I test.

I honestly don't even want to know the total amount of money I've wasted on food he won't eat in the last few months. My Mum has 3 cats so I take everything he won't eat over for them, at least I keep them well fed!
 
It's no problem at all Emma.
You're right about a diabetic cat basically starving but to be honest Solomons numbers are pretty decent in those yellows, but still above the renal threshold. :(
With his weight up to 11kg when you got him this could well be the reason he's diabetic now and you never know with a low carb diet and weight loss he has a good chance of remission.
If you have time just take a look at some other users spreadsheets where BG numbers can go up to and above 27.6 mmol/L.
When and before Duke was diagnosed he was starving hungry all the time even stealing food of our plates but as his numbers came down to Solomons level and below this stopped because he was starting to get regulated and getting his insulin.
Without insulin a cat cannot process food and this causes the weight loss and starvation, no worries with Solomon there lol.
If you need to work out the calories of the food look on the UK food list and it gives the calories in the sixth row in from the left.
For example the Sheba in gravy has 76.8 cals per 100 grams of food.
Just divide the 76.8 by 100 to give calories for 1 gram of food = 0.768
so 50g = 38.4 calories.
1 tube down to 2/3 grams is great progress Emma but still too much over the course of the day as i would say that's probably keeping his BG high
When Duke drops too low i only give him 3g to 5g of Lick e Lix to steer hin and bring him back up into safer numbers, so it shows how much of an effect it can have on their BG, also by giving high carb food it reduces the duration of the insulin.
Lick e Lix is really high in carbs and really should be avoided unless your treating low numbers and great to have in your hypo box.
The Chicken is 20.38% carbs
The Salmon is 20.38% carbs
The Liver, sausage and cat grass is 20.89% carbs
The Beef is 27.22% carbs
The Chicken and Lamb is 22.04 % carbs
The Tuna is 34.88% carbs
The Liver is 23.7% carbs
If you do change his eating routine Emma (which i hope you do) and if you can get Solomon to lose a couple of kilo's over time then i recommend that you do a few extra checks just to see how it affects his BG.
This might help.
https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/diabetic-remission-in-cats#:~:text=Body condition score&text=Obese diabetic cats should be,probability of long-term remission.
I don't know of any alternatives sorry, maybe some low carb freeze dried treats.

Ok i'm going to set a little challenge here for you and Solomon :)
Tomorrow try and do your normal tests but no high carb Lick e Lix at all, i know it will be hard but let's see how it affects his BG over the day as i just feel his BG could be slightly inflated by the Webbox.

Have a read of this thread Emma, it might help with testing Solomon.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-member-missed-injection.265983/
 
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Teetee (UK) said:
It's no problem at all Emma.
You're right about a diabetic cat basically starving but to be honest Solomons numbers are pretty decent in those yellows, but still above the renal threshold. :(
With his weight up to 11kg when you got him this could well be the reason he's diabetic now and you never know with a low carb diet and weight loss he has a good chance of remission.
If you have time just take a look at some other users spreadsheets where BG numbers can go up to and above 27.6 mmol/L.
When and before Duke was diagnosed he was starving hungry all the time even stealing food of our plates but as his numbers came down to Solomons level and below this stopped because he was starting to get regulated and getting his insulin.
Without insulin a cat cannot process food and this causes the weight loss and starvation, no worries with Solomon there lol.
If you need to work out the calories of the food look on the UK food list and it gives the calories in the sixth row in from the left.
For example the Sheba in gravy has 76.8 cals per 100 grams of food.
Just divide the 76.8 by 100 to give calories for 1 gram of food = 0.768
so 50g = 38.4 calories.
1 tube down to 2/3 grams is great progress Emma but still too much over the course of the day as i would say that's probably keeping his BG high
When Duke drops too low i only give him 3g to 5g of Lick e Lix to steer hin and bring him back up into safer numbers, so it shows how much of an effect it can have on their BG, also by giving high carb food it reduces the duration of the insulin.
Lick e Lix is really high in carbs and really should be avoided unless your treating low numbers and great to have in your hypo box.
The Chicken is 20.38% carbs
The Salmon is 20.38% carbs
The Liver, sausage and cat grass is 20.89% carbs
The Beef is 27.22% carbs
The Chicken and Lamb is 22.04 % carbs
The Tuna is 34.88% carbs
The Liver is 23.7% carbs
If you do change his eating routine Emma (which i hope you do) and if you can get Solomon to lose a couple of kilo's over time then i recommend that you do a few extra checks just to see how it affects his BG.
This might help.
https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/diabetic-remission-in-cats#:~:text=Body condition score&text=Obese diabetic cats should be,probability of long-term remission.
I don't know of any alternatives sorry, maybe some low carb freeze dried treats.

Ok i'm going to set a little challenge here for you and Solomon :)
Tomorrow try and do your normal tests but no high carb Lick e Lix at all, i know it will be hard but let's see how it affects his BG over the day as i just feel his BG could be slightly inflated by the Webbox.

Have a read of this thread Emma, it might help with testing Solomon.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-member-missed-injection.265983/
Click to expand...

I do worry that Solomons decent numbers are more to do with the Freestyle Lite I use for testing than anything else. I've done a few comparisons recently testing the same blood drop with my Freestyle Lite, Accuchek Performa & Alphatrak, sometimes the freestyle is just a little lower than the other 2 but there's been a few occasions it's read significantly lower than both other meters. I am trying not to obsess over it too much at the moment tho... A problem for another day!

I am pretty confident his weight is behind the diabetes. Before I adopted him he was one of those cats that like to visit neighbours and get fed by all of them lol. One of his previous owners neighbours would lure him to her house with a full bowl of Dreamies.

I will definitely be changing his food routine thanks to all your advice! I had a read through all your replies again tonight and after reading how poor Duke was when he was starving before he was diagnosed it occurred to me that Solomon has never once begged for food or acted like he is starving ever. I've realised I've taken "feed an unrregulated cat as much as they want" and ran with it, and in fact I am the one following Solomon around the house trying to feed him various meals throughout the day and encouraging him to eat more than he should.

I went out today and got food scales and a day planner to keep track of his daily food/ calorie intake. I haven't had scales since way before he was diagnosed so have been stupidly estimating his 40g of dry food based on either the scoop I used to measure 40g of his pre diabetes dry food or how much it filled his bowl. Well... after comparing how much 40g of Thrive really is to what I have been giving him, i've actually been giving him been giving him more like 100-120g. I have been so obsessed with carb % that I never even looked at the calories in Thrive and it never occured to me that his previous dry food was much lower in calories and clearly much denser than Thrive.

So yeah, I've basically been trying to give him about 700 calories worth of food a day and wondering why he never finishes it all. I was literally hand feeding him blink this morning enticing him to eat, I could cry I feel so terrible :arghh:

I've never actually checked lick e lix on the carb calculator, likely because I didn't want to know so I could keep using them and justifying it to myself that adding water makes it ok lol. Since you've shamed me with the % now I know how high they actually are I'll stop using them so challenge accepted!

I don't even want to imagine how long I would have been giving Solomon that obscene amount of calories if it wasn't for this thread and all your advice.
 
The Freestyle Lite will read lower than the Alphatrak as it's a human meter, it's best to stick with just one meter then there's no confusion.
Dreamies lol, we used to give them to Duke before his diagnosis but not now as they are very high in carbs, 20% i think i read somewhere.
I'm glad you're changing Solomons eating routine and i'm sure he will feel better for it, 700 cals, wow that's a massive amount of food he's getting.
Are you stopping the dry food because as you know it's really not good for him, i know it's low carb but still very high in calories plus there is no water content in dry food which can cause dehydration if he's not drinking enough.
With Duke now he gets about 3 packets of Sheba daily and that's enough to keep his weight stable at 6 kilo but with that amount of food his daily water content is way too low as it's only about 210 mls so we give him water orally and in his food to bring him up to about 320 mls a day.
The reason we do this is because he simply won't drink enough and a previous blood test show him as being dehydrated.
If you get chance could you post Solomons new feeding regime please as i want to see how it affects his BG, and hopefully we will see a curve, also you can create a new sheet in your spreadsheet and enter everything into there if you want.
At the moment his numbers are still in the yellows and he will probably need a change in his dose but with the new feeding regime i would hold off for a couple of days or so just to see how things go.
Don't feel bad about things Emma, you've sought advice and now hopefully he's going to lose weight and get into better numbers.
I don't know if you've seen Duke's spreadsheet or not but we have got him like that with a very strict routine, everything is done like clockwork and everything is weighed out, sad i know but it works for him.
 
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Teetee (UK) said:
At the moment his numbers are still in the yellows and he will probably need a change in his dose but with the new feeding regime i would hold off for a couple of days or so just to see how things go.
Click to expand...
I definitely agree with this. Tee has covered just about everything so thoroughly that I don't have anything to add at this time! :-) He's great.
 
I also agree about not beating yourself up over past "mistakes" if you can even really call them mistakes. When first diagnosed, you (and your cat) have a lot of challenges to overcome, including things like changing their food, learning how to test, getting them to tolerate the testing (some cats are easy... some are not.) All of this (and more) is a learning process and takes time. People don't do everything "perfectly" at first with this FD journey. You're making a lot of positive changes. Oh, and Solomon is so cute... I'm not surprised that he was a neighborhood favorite and a woman would lure him into her house with a bowl of Dreamies!
 
Hi Emma,
Nice blue last night, but please do keep your eye on him and test him more now due to his new feeding regime as we don't want him dropping too low.
Contrary to what i said yesterday i'm thinking now after seeing that blue he may need a reduction but there have been no more entries into your spreadsheet since so i'm only guessing, the more info the better.

I just want to add that that this is how we do things with Duke and i do 100% realise it's not possibly for everybody to do or agree with.
We never feed Duke anything above 4% carbs, unless he's ill and not eating, we do this because we have more control on his BG plus Duke's BG can be very sensitive to different carb content foods.
We know that by feeding him 4% carbs or below then everything is totally insulin controlled and his dose is adjusted to that and it changes very little unless he's ill.
If we gave him say 8% or 9% carbs then i know he would run a lot higher and his dose would have to be adjusted to suit the higher carb food, but the problem with that is if we drop back down to 4% or below then he would drop low and would again need his dose adjusted again which in my eyes is inconsistent.
We never chop and change his carb content if we can help it and we always stick to that routine as it works for us and Duke.
If he drops low then we are fairly certain that it's not food related so he will need a reduction but if he's running a lot higher on the 4% then we know he might have a problem like say a pancreatitis flare or another issue.
It's amazing what our spreadsheets tell us and how you can see problems arising.
Carbs in food and insulin go hand in hand, the more higher carb food eaten the more insulin is needed.
As i said earlier consistency and a strict routine work really well for us and Duke in keeping him in safe numbers.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I also agree about not beating yourself up over past "mistakes" if you can even really call them mistakes. When first diagnosed, you (and your cat) have a lot of challenges to overcome, including things like changing their food, learning how to test, getting them to tolerate the testing (some cats are easy... some are not.) All of this (and more) is a learning process and takes time. People don't do everything "perfectly" at first with this FD journey. You're making a lot of positive changes. Oh, and Solomon is so cute... I'm not surprised that he was a neighborhood favorite and a woman would lure him into her house with a bowl of Dreamies!
Click to expand...

Thank you for this! Made me feel a little better about things. Sorry I'm just replying now, I've been feeling super stressed out about all things Solomon related for the past couple days.

Also sorry for causing concern this morning, my Gran had a little spill so I left to go check on her immediately after giving Solomon his insulin and completely forgot I hadn't filled in his spreadsheet until I went to add a +3 reading.

Ha you are right about him being a neighborhood favourite, he lived in 3 different houses on his previous street, just deciding wherever he liked best. Thankfully he doesn't really go further than our garden unless it's to follow me round the block for his nightly exercise so I don't have to fight off any luring neighbors lol.. He wears a GPS collar just incase tho :joyful:
 
Teetee (UK) said:
Hi Emma,
Nice blue last night, but please do keep your eye on him and test him more now due to his new feeding regime as we don't want him dropping too low.
Contrary to what i said yesterday i'm thinking now after seeing that blue he may need a reduction but there have been no more entries into your spreadsheet since so i'm only guessing, the more info the better.

I just want to add that that this is how we do things with Duke and i do 100% realise it's not possibly for everybody to do or agree with.
We never feed Duke anything above 4% carbs, unless he's ill and not eating, we do this because we have more control on his BG plus Duke's BG can be very sensitive to different carb content foods.
We know that by feeding him 4% carbs or below then everything is totally insulin controlled and his dose is adjusted to that and it changes very little unless he's ill.
If we gave him say 8% or 9% carbs then i know he would run a lot higher and his dose would have to be adjusted to suit the higher carb food, but the problem with that is if we drop back down to 4% or below then he would drop low and would again need his dose adjusted again which in my eyes is inconsistent.
We never chop and change his carb content if we can help it and we always stick to that routine as it works for us and Duke.
If he drops low then we are fairly certain that it's not food related so he will need a reduction but if he's running a lot higher on the 4% then we know he might have a problem like say a pancreatitis flare or another issue.
It's amazing what our spreadsheets tell us and how you can see problems arising.
Carbs in food and insulin go hand in hand, the more higher carb food eaten the more insulin is needed.
As i said earlier consistency and a strict routine work really well for us and Duke in keeping him in safe numbers.
Click to expand...

I have looked at Duke's glorious spreadsheet :cat: I dream of the day Solomon has similar numbers for even 2 days in a row never mind as perfect as Duke's lol.

I think consistency is definitely key in this battle and in an ideal world I would give Solomon the same under 5% food in the same amounts every day and ditch dry food completely but Solomon refuses to conform to my plans. Unfortunately the only thing he is consistent with is dry food :arghh:. For the almost 3 years I've had him I've had to constantly change his wet food because he would eat it for so long then just go off it and refuse it. I've probably made it worse if I'm honest because my goal even pre diabetes was to get him off dry food (for his weight in particular) so any time he went off his wet food I would get him a different one and the cycle continued. I have tried everything from microwaving his food to toppers to even trying to hand feed him and nothing works, if he is hungry enough he will go through and eat every bit of jelly or lick every bit of gravy off the food but won't touch it after that so I don't really know what to do from here.

The food he will eat most frequently is the Sheba Fresh and fine which is 8.5% carbs from the food list, and he is currently tolerating the tuna Blink but if I give him too much of that he won't eat it so I'm trying to limit the Sheba to insulin times and small portions of the much lower carb blink in between. I know it's only a matter of time before he goes off both so all I can think to do is find a couple foods that are similar carbs to Sheba that he will eat and a I already have a few different foods around 2% that we have went through then when he goes off either I can rotate in another food that is similar in carbs and if I need to adjust his calorie count I can adjust it with the Thrive? That's really as close to consistent as we can get I think but I am open to any and all suggestions.

Also regarding his daily calories, I worked out what he was actually eating from the ridiculous 700 I had on offer was around 500. Would you still say he should get 300 per day? I'm just a little worried that if he was getting 500ish and maintaining the same weight then reducing by 200 would be too much too quickly? I want him to lose weight but I panic a little about it going too fast, I can barely cope with the faulty pancreas so I really need his liver to remain healthy lol.

I think whats causing me the most anxiety is the lack of consistency with food and that I'm back at work in just over a week which will throw the whole feeding regime out the window and his injections are timed around my work so most days I will only be able to get a +1 before I leave and don't get back to around +11.
 
Hi Emma
Sorry to hear about your Nan, i hope she's ok.
Regarding Solomons weight what i would do is weigh him today if you can before his breakfast/supper and after he's been to the toilet if you can then you know that everytime you weigh him he's empty if you know what i mean, and then weigh him at the same time every week again when he's empty.
They say that an overweight cat can lose no more than 2% of their body weight per week, so it's a case of trial and error with the food, if your concerned then go slowly but just keep weighing him to make sure he is losing weight.
If he's not losing weight weekly then his calories will need reducing or if he's losing more than 2% weekly increase his calories, as i say it's trial and error, but you do need to record what he eats daily and record his weight weekly
If you do start him on about 300 cals per day then next week you will know how it's working, this won't affect his liver as he's still eating plenty, but if you want to go slower it's entirely up to you.
300 calories is equivalent to just under 5 packets of Sheba per day.
Do you do both injections yourself and what time do you inject him?
Let me know what he weighs if you can.
If Solomon will only eat 8.5% then so be it, and if he still wants dry food then just reduce it slowly and wean him it of that way if you can.
One of the most problematic things with diabetic cats is that they won't eat this and they won't eat that, it's terrible because they need a full tummy so's that they can have their insulin, we've all been there and still there.
There are times Duke just totally refuses food and we and up trying sometime 5 different types of food just to get enough food into him for his insulin.
If i have missed anything Emma just post and ask, if i don't know someone on the forum will.
Also could you let me know all the different foods he eats and i will create a spreadsheet next week with the calories per gram if you want me to, there maybe even a few food on there that can use for Solomon.
Something like this that i created for Jill @Merlin’sMama as her cat Merlin needs to gain weight.
 

Attachments

Teetee (UK) said:
Hi Emma
Sorry to hear about your Nan, i hope she's ok.
Regarding Solomons weight what i would do is weigh him today if you can before his breakfast/supper and after he's been to the toilet if you can then you know that everytime you weigh him he's empty if you know what i mean, and then weigh him at the same time every week again when he's empty.
They say that an overweight cat can lose no more than 2% of their body weight per week, so it's a case of trial and error with the food, if your concerned then go slowly but just keep weighing him to make sure he is losing weight.
If he's not losing weight weekly then his calories will need reducing or if he's losing more than 2% weekly increase his calories, as i say it's trial and error, but you do need to record what he eats daily and record his weight weekly
If you do start him on about 300 cals per day then next week you will know how it's working, this won't affect his liver as he's still eating plenty, but if you want to go slower it's entirely up to you.
300 calories is equivalent to just under 5 packets of Sheba per day.
Do you do both injections yourself and what time do you inject him?
Let me know what he weighs if you can.
If Solomon will only eat 8.5% then so be it, and if he still wants dry food then just reduce it slowly and wean him it of that way if you can.
One of the most problematic things with diabetic cats is that they won't eat this and they won't eat that, it's terrible because they need a full tummy so's that they can have their insulin, we've all been there and still there.
There are times Duke just totally refuses food and we and up trying sometime 5 different types of food just to get enough food into him for his insulin.
If i have missed anything Emma just post and ask, if i don't know someone on the forum will.
Also could you let me know all the different foods he eats and i will create a spreadsheet next week with the calories per gram if you want me to, there maybe even a few food on there that can use for Solomon.
Something like this that i created for Jill @Merlin’sMama as her cat Merlin needs to gain weight.
Click to expand...
This spreadsheet is priceless to us!! We refer to it so many times we have nearly memorized it (but not quite!) and we highlighted the higher calorie foods. Thanks again, Tee!
 
Teetee (UK) said:
Hi Emma
Sorry to hear about your Nan, i hope she's ok.
Regarding Solomons weight what i would do is weigh him today if you can before his breakfast/supper and after he's been to the toilet if you can then you know that everytime you weigh him he's empty if you know what i mean, and then weigh him at the same time every week again when he's empty.
They say that an overweight cat can lose no more than 2% of their body weight per week, so it's a case of trial and error with the food, if your concerned then go slowly but just keep weighing him to make sure he is losing weight.
If he's not losing weight weekly then his calories will need reducing or if he's losing more than 2% weekly increase his calories, as i say it's trial and error, but you do need to record what he eats daily and record his weight weekly
If you do start him on about 300 cals per day then next week you will know how it's working, this won't affect his liver as he's still eating plenty, but if you want to go slower it's entirely up to you.
300 calories is equivalent to just under 5 packets of Sheba per day.
Do you do both injections yourself and what time do you inject him?
Let me know what he weighs if you can.
If Solomon will only eat 8.5% then so be it, and if he still wants dry food then just reduce it slowly and wean him it of that way if you can.
One of the most problematic things with diabetic cats is that they won't eat this and they won't eat that, it's terrible because they need a full tummy so's that they can have their insulin, we've all been there and still there.
There are times Duke just totally refuses food and we and up trying sometime 5 different types of food just to get enough food into him for his insulin.
If i have missed anything Emma just post and ask, if i don't know someone on the forum will.
Also could you let me know all the different foods he eats and i will create a spreadsheet next week with the calories per gram if you want me to, there maybe even a few food on there that can use for Solomon.
Something like this that i created for Jill @Merlin’sMama as her cat Merlin needs to gain weight.
Click to expand...


Thank you for all your advice!

I've reduced him to 350 calories per day and have been playing around with food to find out what's causing his numbers to be all over the place and I think the 8.5% Sheba wet food is the culprit, probably due to the 'various sugars' listed in the ingredients. If you look at his spreadsheet, I gave him only the 8.5% Sheba and no dry food during the AM cycle on 22/07 and he stayed high and only started to come down towards the end of that cycle (since he hadn't had any since +5) and yesterday I crushed some thrive over some Sheba Fine Flakes in Jelly and let him graze on dry until +5 and his numbers were a lot better.

I've ordered a couple more options from the food list from zooplus and I'll go to pets at home tomorrow and pick up a couple different options from there so hopefully will find a couple more he likes. Todays trial of Thrive wet food was a fail and then he refused fine flakes and savoury cake so I ended up giving in and giving him the 8.5% Sheba so I could give him his injection :arghh:

Ok, I'm fine with just making sure he isn't losing more than 2% and will adjust if necessary! I read somewhere he should get 2 grams of protein per pound of healthy body weight to prevent muscle wastage so I'll have to factor that in to his meal plan also! He was 9.3kg yesterday. Since he grazes I've been weighing what I put down to him then weighing what is left before I bin it and working out how much he is eating.

I do both injections and his usual times are 10am/10pm due to my work schedule. My boyfriend has given his injection a couple of times but he won't test him so I try to avoid that as much as possible. Our times right now are 11/11 since I'm off work but will need to work it back to 10 for when I'm back. Thats something I could probably do with advice on, whenever my other half has had to give insulin I get him to give a reduced dose usually about a unit less than what I give, should I be doing that or do I have him give closer to his usual dose without testing? :nailbiting:

I will try out some new food options over the next couple of days and get back to you with what (if any) he likes lol.

Thanks again for all your help!
 
Hi Emma
It's all trial and error with his food i'm afraid, just like what you're doing at the moment.
Most foods contain variuos sugars but it's the vegetable protein extract that you need to watch out for as that can raise the BG in some cats. (Duke included)
Regarding the protien you can give him boiled egg whites if he will eat it or Dr Oetker egg white powder mixed in his food.
Egg whites are very very low in carbs, low in phosphorus and are high in protein which is good for building up muscle and they are also low in calories. Roughly 18 cals per 1 egg white they say.
It's a shame your boyfriend won't help as that would make things a lot easier with dosing and testing etc and getting him into a normal breakfast/teatime routine, i'm hoping you can get him to change his mind as it would be really beneficial for Solomon.
You can work your way back by to 10:00 by doing it this way, you can move in 15 minute increments.
For instance:
Friday PMPS 11:00 normal time
Saturday AMPS 10:45
Saturday PMPS 10:30
Sunday AMPS 10:15
Sunday PMPS 10:00

or in 30 minute increments
For instance:
Friday PMPS 11:00 normal time
Saturday AMPS 10:30
Saturday PMPS 10:30
Sunday AMPS 10:00
It doesn't have to be the weekend but it makes it easier.

I will tag in @Suzanne & Darcy to see if she can offer any advice with the reduced dose as i'm not too sure about that one i'm afraid.
Reducing his dose by 1.0u will probably cause his bloods to be all over the place, maybe not a 1.0u reduction but perhaps a 0.5u reduction if nobody is testing, it's very much like a sliding scale dose.
A full dose and not testing is not good either, any ideas Suzanne?
I would do a 0.25u increase to 4.75u as he's done a week on 4.5u now, do you agree Suzanne.
Do you work a nightshift to be doing things at 10/10?
 
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His nadirs are still fairly "high" (with respect to the hypo boundary of 50). I would only do a 0.25U reduction when your boyfriend has to do it, assuming it's here and there. If you're gone for multiple days then I'd do 0.5U.

But if his nadirs start consistently falling 90-100 then consider 0.5U reduction when he has to do it.
 
FrostD said:
His nadirs are still fairly "high" (with respect to the hypo boundary of 50). I would only do a 0.25U reduction when your boyfriend has to do it, assuming it's here and there. If you're gone for multiple days then I'd do 0.5U.

But if his nadirs start consistently falling 90-100 then consider 0.5U reduction when he has to do it.
Click to expand...
Ok that makes sense! Thank you.

Also I've held the 4.5 for 7 days, should I increase from tomorrow? His numbers have been a bit all over the place with him being extra fussy about food and a few unusually hot days where I am.
 
So with SLGS you would hold for nadirs between 90-150. That said, it's been 7 days since he saw green, if you'd like to try to nudge numbers down you could try an increase, assuming you can monitor. But if you do that, have your boyfriend so a 0.5U reduction when he shoots.
 
Emma and Solomon said:
Ok that makes sense! Thank you.

Also I've held the 4.5 for 7 days, should I increase from tomorrow? His numbers have been a bit all over the place with him being extra fussy about food and a few unusually hot days where I am.
Click to expand...
I definitely agree with the .25 unit increase for tomorrow morning (will be “this morning” by the time you read this.). A full unit decrease does appear to be too much for when your boyfriend has to do the injections. I understand your caution though. I also agree with FrostD’s suggestions regarding reduced doses when there will not be any monitoring going on.

The egg white suggestion is an excellent one. I use this as well to bump up muscle building protein for some of my older cats.

I hope your grandmother is all right!

You are doing a beautiful job trying to manage this wonderful picky boy!

What will your work schedule be like when you return to work? How many hours per day will you be gone during his cycles?
 
FrostD said:
So with SLGS you would hold for nadirs between 90-150. That said, it's been 7 days since he saw green, if you'd like to try to nudge numbers down you could try an increase, assuming you can monitor. But if you do that, have your boyfriend so a 0.5U reduction when he shoots.
Click to expand...
I only see green on the night of the accidental 5 units. But maybe I am being dumb again.
 
Teetee (UK) said:
Hi Emma
It's all trial and error with his food i'm afraid, just like what you're doing at the moment.
Most foods contain variuos sugars but it's the vegetable protein extract that you need to watch out for as that can raise the BG in some cats. (Duke included)
Regarding the protien you can give him boiled egg whites if he will eat it or Dr Oetker egg white powder mixed in his food.
Egg whites are very very low in carbs, low in phosphorus and are high in protein which is good for building up muscle and they are also low in calories. Roughly 18 cals per 1 egg white they say.
It's a shame your boyfriend won't help as that would make things a lot easier with dosing and testing etc and getting him into a normal breakfast/teatime routine, i'm hoping you can get him to change his mind as it would be really beneficial for Solomon.
You can work your way back by to 10:00 by doing it this way, you can move in 15 minute increments.
For instance:
Friday PMPS 11:00 normal time
Saturday AMPS 10:45
Saturday PMPS 10:30
Sunday AMPS 10:15
Sunday PMPS 10:00

or in 30 minute increments
For instance:
Friday PMPS 11:00 normal time
Saturday AMPS 10:30
Saturday PMPS 10:30
Sunday AMPS 10:00
It doesn't have to be the weekend but it makes it easier.

I will tag in @Suzanne & Darcy to see if she can offer any advice with the reduced dose as i'm not too sure about that one i'm afraid.
Reducing his dose by 1.0u will probably cause his bloods to be all over the place, maybe not a 1.0u reduction but perhaps a 0.5u reduction if nobody is testing, it's very much like a sliding scale dose.
A full dose and not testing is not good either, any ideas Suzanne?
I would do a 0.25u increase to 4.75u as he's done a week on 4.5u now, do you agree Suzanne.
Do you work a nightshift to be doing things at 10/10?
Click to expand...

One of my Mums kittens goes crazy for eggs lol but I've never thought to try Solomon with them. Will pick some up tomorrow and the egg powder too, thanks!

It's frustrating because he loves Solomon (he literally looks at him like he's his furry little child) and I think he just 1. Is scared to hurt him and 2. Takes as little to do with his diabetes as possible and just leaves it all to me because it makes his life easier. I spoke to him about testing again tonight and basically just told him that as Solomons numbers are getting lower and I've cut his food down that it's much more dangerous for him to be blindly giving insulin if I can't be there and I would never forgive him if anything happened to Solomon because he refuses to do a tiny ear prick that takes 2 seconds so he said he will try to learn so we will see how that goes.

No its not nightshift, but I can see how it would seem thats my pattern with all the tests I do after 11pm lol. I'm just a night hawk! When Solomon was diagnosed I had to adjust my work schedule as I used to do a mix of early and late shifts, the only schedule that I could do consistently is starting at 11am or 12pm and finishing at 8pm, travel is usually about 45 mins so the earliest I could change his times to are 9/9.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I definitely agree with the .25 unit increase for tomorrow morning (will be “this morning” by the time you read this.). A full unit decrease does appear to be too much for when your boyfriend has to do the injections. I understand your caution though. I also agree with FrostD’s suggestions regarding reduced doses when there will not be any monitoring going on.

The egg white suggestion is an excellent one. I use this as well to bump up muscle building protein for some of my older cats.

I hope your grandmother is all right!

You are doing a beautiful job trying to manage this wonderful picky boy!

What will your work schedule be like when you return to work? How many hours per day will you be gone during his cycles?
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Thank you! I've noticed that he is a little less fussy now that he's a bit hungrier so eats much more at injection time thanks to @Teetee (UK) and all his great advice!

I'll be doing a phased return for the first couple of weeks but when I am back to normal I'll be gone about 9 hours during his AM cycle, 5 days a week with only my Solomon spy cameras to check on him which is worrying!
 
Emma and Solomon said:
One of my Mums kittens goes crazy for eggs lol but I've never thought to try Solomon with them. Will pick some up tomorrow and the egg powder too, thanks!

It's frustrating because he loves Solomon (he literally looks at him like he's his furry little child) and I think he just 1. Is scared to hurt him and 2. Takes as little to do with his diabetes as possible and just leaves it all to me because it makes his life easier. I spoke to him about testing again tonight and basically just told him that as Solomons numbers are getting lower and I've cut his food down that it's much more dangerous for him to be blindly giving insulin if I can't be there and I would never forgive him if anything happened to Solomon because he refuses to do a tiny ear prick that takes 2 seconds so he said he will try to learn so we will see how that goes.

No its not nightshift, but I can see how it would seem thats my pattern with all the tests I do after 11pm lol. I'm just a night hawk! When Solomon was diagnosed I had to adjust my work schedule as I used to do a mix of early and late shifts, the only schedule that I could do consistently is starting at 11am or 12pm and finishing at 8pm, travel is usually about 45 mins so the earliest I could change his times to are 9/9.
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Hi Emma
Some nice blues last night and a nice blue pre shot, he's coming along really well.
Am i right in saying that if you can do the 9/9 then you can do both injections and also do a +1 and +2 before you set off for work, although a +1 won't tell you much.
Or what about this schedule, say you did him at 8/8, you could do the AMPS and also get a +2 and +3 before you set off for work which would give you some indication as to whether he's going to drop too low, and if your boyfriend agrees he could do the PMPS, all he would need to do daily is 1 ear prick 1 injection and feed him then you can take over when you get home.
Regarding the boiled eggs just give him the white and not the yolk and mash it into his food if he will eat it, just a half of the egg white daily will do.
 
Hi @Teetee (UK)

All your help with food is working a little too well as Solomons AMPS is 9.1... I'm holding off for 30 mins (10 mins until I re-check) but not sure what to give him.

I've given full dose in the 10s but single digits are much scarier lol. I'll be home all day and can check throughout the day.

Thanks!

Emma
 
Teetee (UK) said:
Hi Emma
That's a nice pre shot and not much below the 10.4 mmol/L (164 mg/dl)
As you are stalling lets see what he is after your next test.
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Thank you for the quick response! Stalled for 30 mins and he is 10.1

Im thinking nadir on these doses must be much later than it previously was so I'll get a few tests throughout this cycle and try to find out how low he is actually going!
 
Emma and Solomon said:
Yeah was thinking I would unless you advise against it?
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No it's fine to give him it at that number.
Try and get a good few tests in at say +2 +3 +5 +6 etc and keep your spreadsheet updated if you can so's we can see how he's doing and not dropping too low.
This is from the prozinc dosing page.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-dosing-methods.225629/
If the preshot number is near kitty's usual preshot numbers:
Look at your data to see what numbers you have shot in the past and decide what would be a safe, shootable number for your cat. Don't feed. Stall until kitty reaches the preshot number you've decided on and then shoot.
We usually don't suggest or recommend shooting a preshot number less than 90 mg/dL when following the SLGS Method. Remember that with SLGS, generally speaking, your goal is to achieve flat numbers that are greater than 90 mg/dL. However, let experience, data collected, knowledge of your cat, and availability to monitor help in making the best decisions for your cat.
 
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