https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/bg-keeps-dropping.284803/ I'm looking for some advice and was wondering if I should continue to hold this dosage of 0.5 for a couple more days and see what happens or maybe increase him to a different dosage. He didn't drop really low this time down to 61 on 12/19 like he did last time at this dosage. Not sure if a dosage increase would set that off again even tho he probably needs an increase since he is continuing to run in high numbers. Thank you
They don’t always react the same way to a dose as they might have last time they were on it. Today is a week on 0.5u and we would normally make dose adjustments, if warranted, after a week on SLGS. But….its very important when considering dose increases that we know how low the current dose is taking him. My concern is there is very little data for 12/31 and 1/1 and also, no AMPS for either day. We strongly suggest you never miss a preshot test. We’ve had members go to bed with the cat at 250 and wake up to a 30. Having said that, overall, he looks like he could use a dose increase. If he doesn’t come down into the one hundreds today, you can either increase to 0.75u tonight or in the morning. Good luck with the dose change
This is exactly what I was just about to say. I’m concerned about the fact that we don’t know his nadir. But I understand about everything that’s been going on with you lately and why you have not been able to test much. So we really will be looking for some more testing to be dose so we can find his nadir. I hope the new dose can knock him out of the reds!
Hi Suzanne, I'm gonna start his new dose tomorrow..I will be able to closely monitor him and feed him at the right times. Hope he likes the new dose and has a good reaction to it. I assume with the .75 you just eyeball it as closely as you can like I did with the .25. He has his vaccinations and comprehensive yearly test first week in February..Is there anything I should or shouldn't do reagarding the effect on his diabetes.. Thank you
Hi Shawn. Yes, you pretty much have to eyeball the .75 unit dose in between the 1 unit and the .5 unit dose. I am not a huge fan of over vaccinating cats - especially cats of Sir Maximus’ age who have probably received many vaccines in their lifetime. But that’s a whole different can of worms to talk about. I have some information to consider regarding vaccines. Immunity for these most common diseases lasts way beyond one year or even the three years (like the three year rabies vaccine.). It would not be a bad thing to have him checked over and some routine bloodwork to be done - depending upon how long it’s been since the last time. Let’s hope we can shift his BG down more with the new dose!
Hmm he is due for his rabies shot and a fecal exam and roundworm shot. His bloodwork was done Nov 15 when he got diagnosed. Now a little confused about these vaccinations..The state requires proof of rabies shot..
Does he stay indoors all the time and how do you have to prove to the state he’s vaccinated against rabies? I also do not vaccinate. My cats had their kitten series of FVRCP (respiratory vaccines) and nothing since. They never, ever go out or come into contact with other cats. My state “requires” rabies but there’s no place where you have to prove they are vaccinated.
Hi Marje, yes he is indoor cat only. I have to mail in my animal renewal form to the county showing that his rabies vaccine is up to date for his animal license renewal. The form has to be provided by a license veterinarian that administered the rabies vaccination and they sent it in for me. I have to pay 42.00 for 3 yeqrs.
He is due for his due for his FVRCP, Hookworms, Roundworms, and fecal exam and rabies shot. It seems like these vaccinations our not necessary. I usually get one dental cleaning a year but last year I chose not too because his dental exam was pretty good and I didn't really want to put under anesthesia since he is getting up there in age. I was always under the impression that it was important to get these vaccinations but I guess I was incorrect.
It’s just interesting they check an indoor cat for hookworms and roundworms. A completely indoor cat should have no exposure to either as hookworms come from drinking water infested with larvae and roundworms from eating wild animals or infested feces. I certainly don’t want you to get sideways with the state on rabies but I don’t know if your vet has a reporting requirement or if there is any chance a rabid animal, like a bat, can get in your home. It would be extremely rare for any rodent to have rabies. I use Teef in my cats’ water bowls to keep tarter down and brush daily to keep gums healthy.
Wow i definitely had no idea about all of this and definitely will discuss this with the vet. I'm all for not putting chemicals in his body. I'm curious if you give your cat regular water from faucet or some type of bottled water. Will look into the Teef and watch a few videos on the brushing. Thank you
This does sound like you may have to get the rabies vaccination and your vet will perhaps be one of those who will refuse to treat him without the rabies (they may have reporting requirements.) If you must, then ask them to give him the Merial PUREVAX rabies vaccine. They may need to order it, so I would ask about it ahead of time. The PUREVAX vaccines are formulated differently and do not contain the adjuvants that are suspected to be associated with the injection site sarcomas. Some vets have a way of pressuring us and making us feel stupid (alarmist and uninformed) as well as negligent if we don’t get a whole bunch of vaccines. There is also a Merial PUREVAX FVRCP vaccine that can be administered. Check out the link above from Dr. Lisa Pierson’s website. It’s very interesting and informative about vaccines.
We live in AZ and have very hard water so we have a water softening system and, thus, a reverse osmosis system for the cats. Before that, I only gave them bottled water. To add to Suzanne’s comment, I had a cat pass away due to a rabies vaccination site sarcoma. They now give the vaccine in the legs so if a sarcoma develops, the leg can be amputated. Back when my kitty had it, vaccines were given between the shoulder blades.
I have a friend whose beloved cat died of an injection site sarcoma from the Leukemia vaccine about 4 years ago. The vaccine manufacturer paid for his treatment, which included surgery, radiation and chemotherapy, but poor Louie didn’t make it. They were devastated feeling like they had harmed their boy. He did not have the vaccine in the leg. I was just reading in a veterinary publication two days ago about how to overcome owner objections to vaccines. The article was going on about the small incidence of injection site sarcomas (you know… only one cat out of so many thousands of cats) but their statistics (if accurate) don’t mean a thing if the one cat is your own precious cat, right?
Exactly. My kitty’s sarcoma metastasized to liver cancer. That was in 1995 and I haven’t vaccinated since except kitten FVRCP series. Interestingly, our vet is very, very supportive of not vaccinating other than kitten FVRCP series. She is in a great clinic with five other vets and none of them push vaccinations for cats beyond the FVRCP kitten. And while some vets see annual vaccines as a way to get the pet in the door every year, our vet just has a different approach. Personally, we take our cats in every six months for routine labs and check-ups. This frequency is not necessary for really young cats but at 13 and 7, a year is a long time.
Suzanne and Marje i appreciate all this information. Wish I would of been educated on all this from the beginning when i adopted him. I will bless this knowledge on to my friends that our pet owners. If i ever adopt another kitty I will be making a lot of changes. We think we our doing the absolutely very best for our animals and to find out that we are not is very disturbing.
Shawn….we have all been there, believe me. It’s an evolution and we learn from each other and pass it long. We’ve all had vets we believed in only to find perhaps we weren’t getting the best advice. I’m sure it’s very difficult to stay on top of cutting edge information for multiple species while working really long hours, etc. Thus, we, as our pets’ advocate, must stay informed, ask questions, bring new things to the table, and have a vet that is willing to be a partner and listen to us. Case in point, my 13 yr old kitty was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism last Nov. We had been monitoring his thyroid levels closely and as soon as his levels were above normal and he was showing mild clinical signs, we got him in for I131 to cure it. But it made him hypothyroid. The specialist who did the I131 put him on thyroid supplement and within a month, his T4 was normal so she said he was good. But he wasn’t. He was still very clinically hypothyroid but the specialist wouldn’t budge. I did a lot of reading and found that not only the tT4 but the fT3 have to be normal. Although my vet had never supplemented with T3 in cats, she listened and we did it. And now my baby is truly euthyroid and back to his healthy, happy self. I always tried to buy what seemed the best canned food for my cats only to find the commercial pet food companies are, by and large, not interested in providing healthy food. There are a few good companies out there but after becoming informed by Dr. Lisa, Susan Thixton’s “Truth About Pet Food”, and listening to many holistic veterinary conferences, I started making a raw, balanced diet for our cats and the change is remarkable. I firmly believe the high rate of cancer in pets is due to commercial pet foods. That’s just my own opinion.
Hi Darcy thanks for checking in His+5 was 308 so not sure if were going to see it at +6 but you never know. Pink is definitely better than red. Thinking his nadir is around +5 I was hoping I would have to put on my sunglasses for that very bright yellow reading.
Yay we made it 296. Little surprised he usually starts going up a little around +6 No big huge drops either this AM or Afternoon. It's a decent start , gotta take those baby steps to get down the stairs.
Oh good! Honestly there’s no significant difference between a 308 and a 296, but it will make us happy to see yellow on the spreadsheet. What’s really good is that he’s stayed pretty flat between +4, 5 & 6 and he didn’t just dip down and shoot up. So he hasn’t had a really big dip from the new dose, but I do see it as progress.
Hey Darcy wanted to see what you thought about his PMP'S Pre shot number, I thought he would increase into the 300's but he really didn't go up in numbers in his usual patterns.Just want make sure everything is looking good. Will be able to test at +2 and +4 this eve. Thank you
I think he’s close to 300 and should be okay. Just give him the normal snacks and test him as you said at +2 and +4.
Hi Shawn. I just wanted to encourage you that you are doing a good job with testing. If he doesn’t come down to lower numbers then we will have to look at increasing his dose in a bit. What kind of schedule will you have this week? anything long and away from home for long hours?
Hi Suzanne I got a pretty relaxed schedule this week but the weekend might be a little crazy. I" ve been battling the flu..Got from my mom when she was sick.Hopefully start feeling better in a few days. have been going to bed earliar.Try n get a least one test in the evening before bed. We can increase dose in couple days just let me know.Thanks for reaching out.
I hope you’re feeling better. My son has been sick for a week now. Nobody else has gotten sick in the family, which in and of itself is odd (but good.). He handles it well though. He’s tough and has been known to eat a full meal while running a high fever.
Hope your son starts feeling better and you don't get it..Normally I'm pretty healthy but my resistance got down with issues with my mom, work and managing Sir Maximus.Gotta feeling it will be a week for recovery with myself. He started out good today..Had a decent breakfast so maybe that shot him up a bit at +2. Hopefully he will balance out to sum decent numbers mid afternoon..Will test at +5. Thank you
Very confused today. Have no idea why he's going up. I felt the needle go into his skin so pretty sure it wasn't a fur shot. Maybe I hit the muscle or something .Just bewildered but I guess that's part of managing diabetes.
Hi Shawn! How are you doing? I was just checking in on Sir Maximus' spreadsheet. I am happy to see those blues on last night's cycle. I think that's progress. Today he's definitely bouncing from those blues, but let's see how long it takes for him to clear this bounce. He will come back down.
P.S. thanks for keeping on testing today when, I know, it sometimes feels pointless (not to mention discouraging... I remember!) but it's really helpful for us to get the whole picture on his spreadsheet!
Hi Suzanne ya i got a little scared last night when i saw that big drop at +2. Had feeling he was going to nose dive thru the night so kept an I on him as much as i could being sick. I kinda expected the bounce today unfortunately. Hopefully he will come back strong and balance himself out with the numbers. Hate seeing him bounce like that because I'm sure he feels terrible. Was nice seeing those blues tho. Thank you for checking in.
Yes. You must be tired tonight! You did a great job hopefully napping and testing last night to catch those two blues!
Bi Shawn. I see he’s finally back down into yellow — can you get a few mid-cycle tests today so we can see what his nadir is today? Then we can decide on an increase before he bounces again. What’s your work schedule this weekend. Busy?
Hi Suzanne , Gonna test at +4 and +6 and and maybe more depending on his levels. I have a pretty busy Sunday and Monday. Monday i will be gone for around 12 hours. Tue-Fri will have time to watch him closely. Maybe he won't bounce and he will level off to consistent numbers. Hoping for the best on that. He does like bouncing like a Kangaroo tho. Thank you
Now that you have performed almost a curve, I would say that you can go ahead and increase his dose to 1 unit because his nadirs are above 150 (according to the SLGS ProZinc dosing method.)
Hi Suzanne I will be gone from 2:15 to 4:30 tomorrow. Home rest of the time. I can start the 1 unit tomorrow but Monday is going to be tough day. He might have to skip PM Shot unless my sister can shoot the shot blindly but I know that is not recommended. Should i wait till Tuesday or start tomorrow AM. Hate to see the missed shot mess his new interval up. I'm fine tho either way. Thank you
Others may disagree, but I think that, with your schedule, we should plan to just do an increase on Tuesday…. Unless Sir Maximus decides to surprise us in the meantime with lower numbers.
Good Morning Suzanne I agree we you to wait until l Tuesday. I feel more comfortable being able to monitor him closely and not having anything interfere with his new dosage interval increase. He was close to that 150 on 1/7 at +6 but he could of either went up from that number or down at +7. I'm positive we need to try 1 unit but want to be really safe if he does have a major drop. We know how unpredictable he can be so I need to be right there next to him until we can get some consistency from him. Thank you
Hi Suzanne i have a crazy long day at work tomorrow from 2pm till at least 1am. My sister will be able to feed but not test for evening shot. I know he has been running high numbers from the bounce but i guess it still will be wise not to give him shot since there will be no test. i know certain situations can differ but i wanted to double check with you about this. Also will it still be okay to start his 1 unit Tuesday even if he misses his shot tomorrow evening? Thanks so much
Hi Shawn, can you try to get some testing in tomorrow before you leave at 2 p.m? I would feel better if we had an idea of where he was headed. Then we may have an idea of his evening preshot number. If you skip the dose, he will go high but will come back down. Other options would be to shoot .5 units i stead of .75, which may keep him from going even higher (although of he makes it to yellow tomorrow he likely will be starting a bounce by evening.). So it’s kind of up to you, but if we know what he’s doing by 1 p.m. tomorrow afternoon then maybe we can make a better decision.
Hi Suzanne looking at his 415 number at +4 i think were pretty safe to go with a .5 evening shot? What do you think? Do i still proceed with 1 unit tomorrow morning or would you like to wait one day so he will be coming off .75 instead of .5 Thank you
I think you’re fine to shoot even the full .75 tonight if you want to. Poor boy is so high. I would increase to 1 unit tomorrow morning. I think we may need to get a little more aggressive with dose i creases for him. We need to get him down.
Yes. We should be good with this. He hasn't gone anywhere near a dangerous number on this dose, and he's been on it a while. I'm sure your sister will make sure he eats a good dinner and will give him a couple snacks.
Did you snag a test last night when you got home? I was just checking in on Max this morning. I know you had a really late night working and are hopefully still asleep!
Good Morning Suzanne. I got off really late and didn't get a test in. I had my sister give him a can n half of food around 8:30 and it was practically gone when i got home at 2am. I probably should of got a reading but was exhausted and fed him and went to bed. I started his full dose and will be able to watch him closely the next few days. Thank you for checking in on him
That sounds good about now since here we will be having temperatures in the teens at night. I don’t mind so much for myself, but I worry about the feral cats outdoors.
Hi Suzanne , Going to test him at +6 and +9 . Got a feeling after that reading on +2 he might slowly ease into the dose increase for 24 hours and then probably shock me like he loves to do. I appreciate you keeping an eye on him.
Oh wow. Yellow AMPS and yellow +2. I am so excited and I am afraid to get excited because I’m afraid of what will come later maybe. But for now, I’m happy and hope to see the blue later.
Hi Suzanne, Ya was little shocked myself this am. Had to put put on my readers and double check that monitor number lol. Pretty big drop from last night so might be setting up for a bounce but at least i know his body responded to the new dose and was good to see that yellow. Like you said maybe around +4 or 6 he can ease it to blue. Another reason for the big drop might be because he didn't eat alot overnight which he usually loves to do. He ate good this AM and made up for it tho.
Today is more it! He’s making progress! Let’s just try not to let him start creeping up again. I’ve been watching his progress each day. What’s your schedule like this weekend?
Hi Darcy, Ya looking much better today. Hope he can remain consistent and not keep bouncing. I will be around home a lot this weekend. Thank you
So sorry i know that . I have no idea why I wrote that my apologies. I'm just so brain dead this week and tired....
I think Sir Maximus needs an increase to 1.25 units. He had a couple of better cycles but is still too high.
Hi Darcy, I was thinking the same thing this evening. I will start the dosage tomorrow morning. Will be home next few days to monitor him. I'm still having problems finding a low Phos food that he likes. Ive tried every BFF and he isn't liking it. I want him to eat so back to all FF classic chicken and Turkey N Giblets. I just feel both of these our to high in Phos. I must of looked at a 100 cans of cat food in Pet Smart today. I've looked at Dr.Pierson's list but still having no luck. Thank you for checking in on Sir Maximus
I’m sorry he’s so picky about his food. It’s definitely important that he eat. That trumps everything. If his phosphorus shows up too high on his bloodwork then you can always add a binder to the food to keep it down. I would keep on trying different foods as well, while still letting him eat what he likes Fancy Feast is hard to wean them off of since it’s kitty crack. At least it’s not kibble!
I see that darn cat is still running high. Are you testing him ketones? What’s your schedule like? I think we need to do a bit of fast tracking on him to get him into a better place. We would only do this if you will be around and testing, but I think he needs another increase.
Hi Suzanne ya the numbers our slightly better seeing a few yellows but he is always starting out of the gate high. No ketones - appetite is good and he is only down a 1lb from November's bloodwork. I will be around all day tomorrow and Monday. I can start the increase tomorrow morning. Just let me know. Thank you
Yes. I would start tomorrow morning. Do you want him to lose weight? I mean, is it good that he lost a pound or do you need to get him to eat more?
I think his weight is pretty good at the moment , I was just kinda surprised he didn't lose more because of the diabetes. He must of gained back a few pounds.
Lots of good blue on his spreadsheet today. I hope this will not just be for a few cycles- although he may bounce.
I'm intrigued to see his numbers in 40 minutes..Hope their decent and not headed to a big bounce..It was very nice to see that blue tioday..
Hey Suzanne I got a reading of 120 pre shot. I guess i should wait 20 minutes and test again and then make a decision to lower dose or no shot.
