Dose Suggestions: Phoenix +8 is 397 after snack

Scdal

Scdal

Member Since 2020
I was going to increase his insulin to 8.25 this morning. However, his BG was low again this morning. It was 70. I fed him and waited 30 minutes until BG rose to 85 and then gave his insulin.

Please don't tell me that I am not supposed to feed him. I have been through this scenario with Phoenix many times. If I don't feed him, his BG keeps dropping until I have to skip his shot. Then, his BG goes up to 400.

His BG is only low in the morning because he hasn't eaten in 8 hours. Any suggestions on how to handle his insulin? Should I raise by .25 or maintain 8 units? He was on 8 units previously for weeks and stayed mostly in yellow numbers. I really would like to see more consistent blues. Thank you
 
Why aren't you feeding him at night? Maybe an autofeeder for a later snack at night will help him be more steady for those morning numbers. I'm also worried that there was no testing at night. If he was at 70 and shot up so fast, that's quite the bounce. I rather suspect he was lower than 70 earlier in the morning. It could be he needs a dose reduction. 70 also means a dose reduction if you are following SLGS.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Why aren't you feeding him at night? Maybe an autofeeder for a later snack at night will help him be more steady for those morning numbers. I'm also worried that there was no testing at night. If he was at 70 and shot up so fast, that's quite the bounce. I rather suspect he was lower than 70 earlier in the morning. It could be he needs a dose reduction. 70 also means a dose reduction if you are following
I used to track him at night and his BG used to remain in the 200 - 300 range the majority of the times. Look at his spreadsheet. I have been worried several times when his BG was in the low 200 range at bedtime. I would get up and check his BG. It had never fallen below 200.

He eats only raw meat which makes it hard to use a timed feeder. Have you ever seen raw meat after it has been sitting a few hours without refrigeration? He won't touch the freeze dried and dry is out of the question. He has had 1 attack of pancreatititis and I don't want another.

I do need to sleep. If I get up at 4am every day to feed a snack, I can't get back to sleep. I am retired but it still wears me out. If I do need to start giving snacks at night, I will do it. But from past history, I guarantee that all that will do is keep his BG in the 200-300 range all night. This is what has happened in the past.
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You can always test his blood sugar right before you go to bed.

I had a timed feeder that had an ice pack underneath. I added a bit of water to the raw, plus had it over the ice pack, and that kept it fresh.
 
Like I said, if I feed at night that only keeps his BG high. Why would I do that?
 
Raw food should not keep his BG high at night. Try setting the autofeeder so he only gets food mid cycle, or around his nadir. What you are trying to prevent is him bottoming out at night, which he possibly could have done last night. A day too high is better than a minute too low.
 
He only eats raw food so something keeps his BG high. I have also monitored him overnight. Look at his spreadsheet! His lowest number is +12.

Also, I have read that feeding a lot of meals keeps their pancreas working all the time and doesn't give them a chance to rest. He eats 3 meals a day and is starting to get fat. I have decreased the amount I am feeding him during the day. It is not normal for people to get up and eat snacks at night and I don't think it is normal for animals either.
 
Scdal said:
Look at his spreadsheet! His lowest number is +12.
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If you don't test between PMPS and AMPS, you cannot say his lowest number is +12. The immediate bounce after that AMPS is evidence he's going lower earlier. Cats cycles tend not to be consistent. Look at 10/23 and 10/26 - his nadirs were not +12 during those AM cycles. You can't assume because he did one thing on one cycle, that all cycles will look like that. That is why we recommend a before bed test. Today it'd be interesting to get a +8 test, and see how that compares to PMPS.
 
I am sorry, Wendy, I tend to get bull-headed and frustrated. I need to listen to what you are telling me. I am going to do whatever you say. Phoenix usually eats 3 meals a day like I do. I will have to order a timed feeder. In the meantime can you suggest a game plan and the hours that I should test between AMPS & PMPS. I will give a snack during the night if you can suggest a time.

I promise I will do anything you suggest. I want to help Phoenix. Thank you
 
If you can feed him in the PM cycle similarly to how you do the day cycle, that might help even things out. Other than shot times, what time do you also feed him during the day?
 
I usually feed him around + 5 . He eats at AMPS. 8AM. Lunch +5 1pm. and PMPS at 8pm

So I should feed him again at +5 at 1 a.m.? His BG has fallen prior to lunch today. This is unusual. I am monitoring him every hour. I don't know why this is happening. He is usually in the mid 200 range at this time of day. Thank you for your help
 
Can you freeze the raw so it will thaw by the time he eats it during the night? By not feeding that long it's probably creating the big bounces. Wendy can correct me on this, I was told it can take a week or 2 to see the effect from a food change.
 
Olive & Paula said:
Can you freeze the raw so it will thaw by the time he eats it during the night? By not feeding that long it's probably creating the big bounces. Wendy can correct me on this, I was told it can take a week or 2 to see the effect from a food change.
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That is a fantastic idea. Yes, I can freeze it. I need to buy a timed feeder. Until it gets here, I am going to get up at night and feed him. I am glad I am retired !
 
Wendy&Neko said:
If you don't test between PMPS and AMPS, you cannot say his lowest number is +12. The immediate bounce after that AMPS is evidence he's going lower earlier. Cats cycles tend not to be consistent. Look at 10/23 and 10/26 - his nadirs were not +12 during those AM cycles. You can't assume because he did one thing on one cycle, that all cycles will look like that. That is why we recommend a before bed test. Today it'd be interesting to get a +8 test, and see how that compares to PMPS.
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I just did his +8 It is 107
 
Depending on what time you go to bed, you might be able to just put out his frozen PM raw before you go to bed. It should take a couple hours to thaw and be ready for him to eat. It doesn't have to be exactly +5 that he eats it.

Nice cycle today. Great example of cats being unpredictable. :cat:
 
Thank you, Wendy.
I can't leave it out to thaw. I will have to get up and feed him until I get a timed feeder. I have to put all my meat that is defrosting where he can't get it. If I leave it on the counter, he will jump up and eat it frozen. Believe me, he is not hungry, just taking advantage of an opportunity.
 
I am very upset. I did as suggested an got up at +5 after PM injection. It was 1:30 a.m. when I gave Phoenix a midnight snack. I then tested at +8 (4:30 a.m.) and his BG has gone really high to 397.

I knew this would happen. I monitor quite closely and after his PM injection his lowest number is usually at +12 or longer. His BG has always been high not low so it doesn't make sense to me to give additional food when it makes his BG go higher. His BG is usually at it's lowest in the morning since he hasn't eaten. I am sure it won't be this morning.

Yes, I am upset. It is now 5 a.m. I might as well get up since I am now wide awake after having to get up twice only to make his BG go high. I am just glad I didn't have time to order an automatic feeder. That would have been a waste of money.
 
260 at this AMPS usually quite low in the mornings. I am sure he will probably climb up to 400 or over by the time his Lantus kicks in. Not Good
I know my cat and how he reacts to food.
 
I'm new to this but I don't think the high number you got at +8 was entirely food induced. It could have been a reaction to the low number he got earlier in the day. Trust the advice you are given here about feeding.
 
Phoenix is bouncing from however low he got the night of the 31st. This is not a food influenced number. Having food available for Phoenix (via a feeder) is what will help prevent those lows and resulting bounces.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Phoenix is bouncing from however low he got the night of the 31st. This is not a food influenced number. Having food available for Phoenix (via a feeder) is what will help prevent those lows and resulting bounces.
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I don't believe he is bouncing. He has been getting a lot of blue and green numbers for over a week. Not a one today. I check his BG at different hours during the day and night. If he fell low like you were saying the night before, it would have been a first.

And yes, I am very upset. I am exhausted from being up all night and having a lot to do today. I worry about Phoenix and don't like seeing him go back to high numbers after making good progress the last week. I am going back to not feeding a midnight snack and I will see for myself. I will get up and check his BG every few hours. I can guarantee that it will be higher the first 3 hours after his PM injection. Then it will gradually fall during the night. His lowest BG will be +12 or longer.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Phoenix is bouncing from however low he got the night of the 31st. This is not a food influenced number. Having food available for Phoenix (via a feeder) is what will help prevent those lows and resulting bounces.
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Wendy, I need to apologize to you for my nasty behavior. I have some family personal problems that are causing me to take my anger out on innocent people and you are one of them. I am going to send you a private email and explain. But to everyone else on this forum, I apologize as well.
 
I got your note. Feline diabetes is exhausting, hard when you have other things on your mind too.:bighug:
Scdal said:
I don't believe he is bouncing.
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There is lots of pink still on Phoenix's spreadsheet recently, probably from bouncing. I suspect this is more of the same.

The other thing causing higher number now is the fur shot 5 cycles ago. The effects of a fur shot can impact later cycles and you can get wonky numbers until the depot is rebuilt, which can take 6 cycles.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I got your note. Feline diabetes is exhausting, hard when you have other things on your mind too.:bighug:

There is lots of pink still on Phoenix's spreadsheet recently, probably from bouncing. I suspect this is more of the same.

The other thing causing higher number now is the fur shot 5 cycles ago. The effects of a fur shot can impact later cycles and you can get wonky numbers until the depot is rebuilt, which can take 6 cycles.
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Thank you. Wendy. I am going to give him another midnight snack and will check him again at + 8. Have a nice evening.
 
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