? Dose for Lantus

Status
Not open for further replies.
Larry and Kitties said:
Do you mean 2 units vice "to" units?

Your SS does not show consistent BG values and generally I see lower BGs with lower dose. I would start at 1 unit but a hier dose MAY be acceptable.
Click to expand...

Yes, vet recommended 2 units 2x a day

IDK why his numbers are all over the place!!! He gives me issues eating low carb wet food and I supplement the wet with crave dry food 21% carbs...it's the most that I can afford for a lower carb dry food. I have 7 cats!

I use friskies and FF lower carb flavors and special kitty low carb flavors. I've been limiting grazing between meals to 1 light snack between daytime feedings. At night, no grazing at all.

Idk how to get his numbers to stabilize ‼️
 
Scarlette & Fluffy said:
Yes, vet recommended 2 units 2x a day

IDK why his numbers are all over the place!!! He gives me issues eating low carb wet food and I supplement the wet with crave dry food 21% carbs...it's the most that I can afford for a lower carb dry food. I have 7 cats!

I use friskies and FF lower carb flavors and special kitty low carb flavors. I've been limiting grazing between meals to 1 light snack between daytime feedings. At night, no grazing at all.

Idk how to get his numbers to stabilize ‼️
Click to expand...

I'm new here so take what I say with a grain of salt, but the 21% dry food is probably responsible for the inconsistent BG your SS is showing. It's like a human diabetic eating Oreos and best avoided at all costs. Especially if you want a shot at remission with fluffy. I'm sure you know dry food isn't recommended at all. You also need to be careful with the friskies shreds and gravy because I thought they were low carb and then found out they were 18% and likely the cause of many BG spikes in my boy. My fluffball loves the FF pates and at under 3% carbs they're ideal and cheap. Most normal weight cats only need 2 to 2 1/2 cans of FF per day to get their full caloric intake for the day. I get it must be hard with 7 cats feeding only one a specific diet, but you may want to work out a way if you'd like to get his diabetes under control.

All the best to you and fluffy!

edit: as @Diane Tyler's Mom points out below the Friskies pates are low carb. Just not the varieties with Gravy
 
Last edited:
Scarlette & Fluffy said:
Yes, vet recommended 2 units 2x a day

IDK why his numbers are all over the place!!! He gives me issues eating low carb wet food and I supplement the wet with crave dry food 21% carbs...it's the most that I can afford for a lower carb dry food. I have 7 cats!

I use friskies and FF lower carb flavors and special kitty low carb flavors. I've been limiting grazing between meals to 1 light snack between daytime feedings. At night, no grazing at all.

Idk how to get his numbers to stabilize ‼️
Click to expand...

Also see #1 she is switching to lantus in the next week on Novolin N now
Maybe they didn't get the tags
@tiffmaxee

@Sienne and Gabby (GA)

@Bron and Sheba (GA)

@Suzanne & Darcy

@Wendy&Neko

@Bandit's Mom
 
The starting dose for a cat who is not on an all wet low carb diet os 1 unit. However, this is for a cat who is starting insulin for the first time. Fluffy has been on insulin and is up to 4 units now. I do think that you would be safe to go with the 2 units that your vet has recommended. You will need to test frequently, but I see you have been doing that.
 
Also, Scarlette, it will be important for Fluffy to have multiple meals throughout the day when you switch to Lantus.

It will be difficult to get Fluffy into better numbers with that dry food. That’s not a criticism of you. I do remember and understand the financial constraints that you have mentioned. You can only do what you can do. I do hope that at least he can get into some lower numbers though.
 
John & Henry said:
I'm new here so take what I say with a grain of salt, but the 21% dry food is probably responsible for the inconsistent BG your SS is showing. It's like a human diabetic eating Oreos and best avoided at all costs. Especially if you want a shot at remission with fluffy. I'm sure you know dry food isn't recommended at all. You also need to be careful with the friskies shreds and gravy because I thought they were low carb and then found out they were 18% and likely the cause of many BG spikes in my boy. My fluffball loves the FF pates and at under 3% carbs they're ideal and cheap. Most normal weight cats only need 2 to 2 1/2 cans of FF per day to get their full caloric intake for the day. I get it must be hard with 7 cats feeding only one a specific diet, but you may want to work out a way if you'd like to get his diabetes under control.

All the best to you and fluffy!

edit: as @Diane Tyler's Mom points out below the Friskies pates are low carb. Just not the varieties with Gravy
Click to expand...
I dont use any gravies! Pate only!
There are times when fluffy will not eat wet food and I cannot insulin him on an empty stomache. I just switched to crave dry. He was on purina all naturals dry 33% carbs. I wish I can get him off dry all together. I made some raw food and he may eat some for a feeding here or there but not consistently. Plus fish varieties are not recommended for frequent use so that IMHO really cuts down on the choise of acceptable wet food pates that are low carb and he won't eat any acceptable wet food varieties consistently. I can't open up two or three different varieties of cat food to see if he's going to eat it and then shove it all in the refrigerator they seem to not want to eat it once it's been open and refrigerated even if it's set out to be room temperature.

The question then becomes how do you get a diabetic cat to eat food if he can't have any dry food and he doesn't want wet food and how do you give them insulin on an empty stomach?
 
Last edited:
Scarlette & Fluffy said:
I dont use any gravies! Pate only!
There are times when fluffy will not eat wet food and I cannot insulin him on an empty stomache. I just switched to crave dry. He was on purina all naturals dry 33% carbs. I wish I can get him off dry all together. I made some raw food and he may eat some for a feeding here or there but not consistently. Plus fish varieties are not recommended for frequent use so that IMHO really cuts down on the choise of acceptable wet food pates that are low carb and he won't eat any acceptable wet food varieties consistently. I can't open up two or three different varieties of cat food to see if he's going to eat it and then shove it all in the refrigerator they seem to not want to eat it once it's been open and refrigerated even if it's set out to be room temperature.

The question then becomes how do you get a diabetic cat to eat food if he can't have any dry food and he doesn't want wet food and how do you give them insulin on an empty stomach?
Click to expand...
Again, I'm new here so if any more knowledge members want to correct anything I say, please do. My understanding is while fish flavors aren't recommended with regularity due to a higher level of toxins, using them over high carb kibble in a diabetic cat would be the much preferred lesser of two evils. In rare instances where my Henry had been picky in the past (pre diabetes), I would just leave his food out for him and if he was hungry enough he'd eventually it -- he almost always did. It's also a bit of a misnomer that you can't give insulin if they don't eat. Vets really like to push this line of thinking but especially in a cat that is well regulated on a depot insulin (i have no experience with your novolin N) this should be less of a concern especially if they're consistently eating a low carb food or are experiencing high numbers (like fluffy). It may be more important later on when fluffys numbers are lower that she eat consistently and if she doesn't someone on here may advise you to give a half dose of insulin instead, but at this point you need to get those numbers under control before worrying about that. With numbers as high as your I do hope you've periodically checking for ketones (ketone urine strips are cheap). I may be a little more scared of DKA than the average person since I've had it happen 3 times, but I think it's a prudent thing to be on the look out for ketones.

As far as enticing her to eat the wet food I've seen lots of people here have good success with toppers. Fortiflora, Bono flakes and chewy freeze dried cubes seem to be real popular around here to get them to eat a food they may otherwise turn their nose up at. Luckily my Henry will eat just about anything so I don't have any personal experience with the toppers.

Again, I'm new so anyone with more experience please correct me where I'm wrong.
 
I separate all my cats for feeding. That way I can control what they eat and how much they eat. For my twins, I have microchip feeders ince I do not have any more places to place the cats for feeding. All my cats only get two meals a day. Can you separate Fluffy and feed her separately from the others?
 
@John & Henry - whether food needs to be on board before giving insulin depends on the insulin. With a faster acting insulin like Novolin, you do need to make sure your cat has eaten before giving an injection. However, with Lantus this is not the case. Whereas you should wait an hour after you feed your cat to give a Novolin injection due to the rapid onset, with Lantus, it takes 2 hours for insulin onset. Thus, it's fine to test, feed and shoot all within a few minutes.

Scarlette - the likelihood is that Fluffy's numbers reflect the effects of the high carb dry food. We consider anything over 15% to be high carb. The only way to offset the dry food is likely to be with whopping amounts of insulin. A couple of suggestions for your consideration. The only low carb dry foods are Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein and Young Again Zero Carb. You could try using freeze dried/air dried raw foods. They have a certain amount of crunch although you should add water to hydrate the food. If Fluffy likes the freeze dried food, you can always crumble a bit and use it as a topper on the canned food. This post contains suggestions for a variety of other toppers that may help to entice Fluffy to pay attention to the canned food. In addition to the food issue, Novolin has a relatively short duration. By each shot time, the insulin has worn off so you see considerably higher pre-shot numbers.

Generally, when switching from another insulin to Lantus, you can make a unit-to-unit switch. However, if you are considering removing the high carb food, I would not start at 4.0u. You may want to take a look at the information in the sticky notes at the top of the Lantus board. It will help to get you oriented since Lantus works differently than Novolin. Please take a look at the sticky on dosing methods since that will be helpful. As an overview:
  • Lantus has a later onset (approx. 2 hours after you shoot) and later nadir (roughly at +6) and lasts 12 hours.
  • There is overlap between shots which is why you get a longer duration.
  • Lantus is a depot type of insulin. A small amount is deposited in the fat tissue and slowly breaks down thereby accounting for the way it works.
  • Lantus likes consistency. You need to shoot as close to every 12 hours as possible. You also need to hold doses in order to get the depot to stabilize unless a dose reduction is indicated.
  • Do NOT roll or shake Lantus. It is in solution (vs. Novolin which is a suspension and needs to be mixed).
  • You can test, feed, and shoot all within a few minutes due to the delayed onset.
 
John & Henry said:
Again, I'm new here so if any more knowledge members want to correct anything I say, please do. My understanding is while fish flavors aren't recommended with regularity due to a higher level of toxins, using them over high carb kibble in a diabetic cat would be the much preferred lesser of two evils. In rare instances where my Henry had been picky in the past (pre diabetes), I would just leave his food out for him and if he was hungry enough he'd eventually it -- he almost always did. It's also a bit of a misnomer that you can't give insulin if they don't eat. Vets really like to push this line of thinking but especially in a cat that is well regulated on a depot insulin (i have no experience with your novolin N) this should be less of a concern especially if they're consistently eating a low carb food or are experiencing high numbers (like fluffy). It may be more important later on when fluffys numbers are lower that she eat consistently and if she doesn't someone on here may advise you to give a half dose of insulin instead, but at this point you need to get those numbers under control before worrying about that. With numbers as high as your I do hope you've periodically checking for ketones (ketone urine strips are cheap). I may be a little more scared of DKA than the average person since I've had it happen 3 times, but I think it's a prudent thing to be on the look out for ketones.

As far as enticing her to eat the wet food I've seen lots of people here have good success with toppers. Fortiflora, Bono flakes and chewy freeze dried cubes seem to be real popular around here to get them to eat a food they may otherwise turn their nose up at. Luckily my Henry will eat just about anything so I don't have any personal experience with the toppers.

Again, I'm new so anyone with more experience please correct me where I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
I appreciate your posts, truly! thank you for sharing your knowledge. With 7 cats, I unfortunately cannot leave Fluffy's food out cuz there are 6 other vultures that'll eat it up and with it being so hot in the house in summer months I fear wet food would spoil. Yes I check for keytones 1x a week. I cannot feed him food during the night as I'm not guaranteed he'd get it before the other cats do. I will try feeding him a couple tablespoons of wet food during daytime ours when I can ensure he alone is getting it. I have a very meager income and have to be frugal and wise with cat food, both wet and dry distribution among the cats. I'll have to look into the "toppers".
 
As for food toppers, some of those mentioned are expensive. FortiFlora is expensive. Some of those freeze dried raw ones are also expensive. Some lesser expensive food toppers that some cats like are crushed up PureBites chicken treats (we call it chicken dust). The bag lasts a long time if you make it into chicken dust. An inexpensive food topper that a lot of cats like is the kind of finely grated Parmesan cheese that comes in the shaker canister.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top