Don't know who to believe or trust....sorry so long

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George&Bert

George&Bert

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These events have been terrorizing and horrific for Andre and no better for me.

12/28 Andre to my regular vet with a severe infection that just seemed to explode on him. He had the sniffles for a few days then he stopped eating and drinking. In the meantime I'm trying to deal with baby who is throwing blood clots and is becoming paralyzed (another horror story)

Andre' hospitalized for a few days and the daily trips back for fluids until he started to drink. He was on Orbax antibiotic. During the stay he was tested via ultrasound because one vet there said he may be diabetic or at least pancreatic problems. Ultrasound showed nothing. Blood test showed 359. Urine taken and later it was announced by the head vet that it showed he definitely did NOT have Diabetes.

In the midst of all this AJ passes of cancer on 1/17 and Baby died of cardiac arrest on 1/30. Both were euthanized as they were very close to death and suffering.

He started eating and the antibiotic was switched to Azithromycin. Doing better then reverted back to coughing and congestion.

Doc put him back on Orbax and off Azithromycin. Added eye drops with dex in it to be placed in nose.
One drop BID. Also put on a mixture of Cerenia and Chlorotrimeton ½ tab + ¼ tab crushed together. It was supposed to be once every three days, but they made a mistake and put everyday on it. I caught it by accident after a few doses and just stopped it.

Weeks go by not getting better now on to my back-up doc at another office. He put him on Clindamycin 1ml BID along with the Orbax 1ml once a day. He checked his blood and said it was 375. He said Andre is diabetic . He said Andre' will never get better until I get the Diabetes under control.He put him on Lantus 1unit u100 BID.

Now cat is fighting like a tiger fed up with two months of oral meds..doing my best. Andre' is eating and drinking off and on.

Still coughing and choking so ran him back to back-up vet (but different doc there) Who tested Andre's urine and said there was absolutely no blood sugar. He said he was not Diabetic. Andre only had three shots at this point. A check at the vets yesterday 16 hours after his third shot revealed a BG of 149 confirming the urine test.

Today I get a call from him as the fructosamine test came back with a very high reading. So he said he was Diabetic after all!!!

I don't have a problem injecting him, but I have a huge problem giving him meds now. He still is choking and can't breath right so when I put this goo in his mouth he cannot breath. Besides it taste like the worse taste on earth.

I feel so badly for Andre'. Four years old and once a feisty feral who now is the most lovable cat imaginable. He even purrs at the vets no matter how they torture him.
 
I'm terribly sorry you and André have had to go through the tests, medicines, different opinions, and BS with vets who don't know but offer their best guess of a dx. I know how it feels to just want your cat to feel better! I can't offer any advice about what may or may not be wrong, but I hope for both of you it is resolved quickly.

Is he eating and drinking? Have allergies and asthma been ruled out?
 
Hello -

Sounds like a LOT of meds for a kitty that's still not feeling any relief. I'm sure others with more knowledge of the anti-biotics can address that part of your puzzle.

But here's my contribution: I'd suggest that you get to WalMart [WM] of a convenient drug store and purchase a blood glucose monitor. A Relion meter at WM cost me about $12. I now buy the 100 pkg of strips - they're $36, but there may be enough to get you started WITH the monitor - if not, you can get a smaller pkg cheaper. The Relion had good reviews on this board, and the strips are the least expensive of all the brands I've looked at, by far, which was a big part of my decision. You'll also need some lancets. Again, not too expensive, and they come in various quantity bags. I freehand, although I have 2 lancet devices.

So, learn to poke Andre's ear (which was the biggest challenge for me) - regardless of whether you're still giving insulin or not.

If you can check his blood first thing in the morning, then feed him, and check againg several times intermittantly throughout the day, you'll be able to record and post your numbers and the times, which will enable the experienced folks to comment and advise. I think someone on the board has been through every possible thing, so hopefully you'll have the benefit of the combined wisdom and experience.

Another thing to consider is Andre's food. Is he eating dry? There are a variety of canned foods, off the shelf at your local grocery or WM that are low in carb. I use Fancy Feast Classics - primarily chicken and turkey. There are other varieties, but these come in boxes so I'm not juggling a bunch of cans loosely. You need to stick with the pate-type foods, no gravies or sauces, as they usually have high carbs. Search "Janet & Binky's List" on the board and you'll find an entire list of pretty much every food and what the carb count is. Print it out and take it to the store with you, or pick a brand that you're comfortable with, make a list of the lo-carb types, and take that. Some folks see as much as a 100 point drop in BG from the food change alone.

If you're still shooting insulin, you must change his food gradually. If you're not, it would probably be beneficial to change his food first - before re-starting insulin if it's determined you need it.

I'll leave the rest to the more experienced, but with the different stories you're getting from different vets, I'd have to see for myself if his numbers are saying diabetes.

Good luck, and please continue to post and ask questions. It can be SO helpful to do so!

Lu-Ann
 
Wow...I am so sorry hear about you and poor Andre. What a rough trip for both of you.

I am too new here to offer any valuable advice. I am sure someone here with way more experience will pop up soon to offer some help. You have come to the right place.Just wanted to offer my support to you and Andre. Praying that your baby can start feeling better soon.

:YMHUG: Mimi & Tommy
 
I should mention that the kitty in the pic (tuxedo) is Bert. He was a sugar cat and on here for quite some time. I did home test Bert and I have the meter Thanks for the advice.

Question:

Is it possible to have very high fructosamine levels and show no sugar in the urine?
 
I am also wondering about whether they did a chest xray. Did they rule out asthma or anything going on with the bronchial tubes or lungs? If he's all congested and having trouble breathing, I would think that might be part of th e problem and who knows if it could be playing havoc with his other readings?

Melanie & Racci
 
I may be thinking of the wrong thing, but, I thought I read on this forum where the Fructosamine test was basically useless. I think my other vet also admitted that.

Anyhow his Bgs were 149 when the doc did the urine test. I said to him in a questioning way that does not the sugar drop in the urine between 180 and 220? He said yes..but he did not link the 149 count to what I was asking.

I think the Fruc test is unreliable..any comments?
 
I thoughtthe fructosimine was kind of an average of their glucose over the last 2 weeks. As opposed to a single poke, like we do at home, which gives you the immediate glucose reading.
Are they only doing bloodwork to get this fugured out? I would want a chest x-ray, at a minimum.
And want to tell you how sorry I am for your recent losses. ((George))
 
The fruc test does give an average of glucose numbers over a two week-ish period. But it isn't an apples to apples thing. Like if the number on the fruc test is 500, that doesn't mean that his average BG has been 500. A couple of weeks ago, there was a discussion about this, and somebody posted a link or a conversion calculator that told you how to translate the fruc test results to "BG" numbers that will make some sense to you....

I don't remember who it was though! Hope someone who sees this will remember what I am talking about.

Carl
 
Every lab has its own 'normal zone'. For instance the last one Racci had was 340. The lab's normal range was 200-415 so Racci had a very good reading. What it tells the vet is how well controlled the diabetes is or in a case where you don't know if he or she is diabetic, whether they have had a high bg for that period of time.

Sorry, I didn't read the conversation about fruct.

Melanie & Racci
 
I have BIG 'issues' with what comes out of a vet's mouth; I need to see the proof, to have the proof in my own hands. You had tests done? Get copies for yourself.

That fructosamine test is open to interpretation, and you certainly don't give a diagnosis of diabetes by that one value. As far as the FD goes, just get your own meter and test at home. It will be much cheaper and way less stressful on the poor cat.

A cat could be sick and on meds that cause high BG; there could have been a tooth issue and you would see higher BG. There are reasons you may have a high reading, but the only way you are really going to be sure is if you test yourself with a meter and in your own home where your cat is relaxed and not stressed. One of my cats always tests higher at the vet and the other one usually tests lower. .... get them both home and they return to their real numbers.

You can test just like cats who are on a trial before going off insulin; test every 12hrs and record the numbers.
You can also do a sort of food test. Test before feeding, then feed a normal meal, and test again in about an hour or so. You want to see the BG balance out, lower, adjust because of the food.

Ask to see your cat's file at the vet and have one vet walk you through all that has been done, explaining why they did what and what was found, eliminated.

There is nothing wrong with getting a 2nd opin. Get copies of all that was done for your cat, make an appt with another office, take cat and copies, and see with the other vet says. Don't show the papers from the 1st place until you hear what the 2nd vet says.

Any meds that you have been giving, look them up online to see what they are used to treat. If you find that some med is for an issue other than what the vet claimed, question the vet.

I don't believe what my vets have said without proof and justifications. if I disagree, I say so. If I am given meds, I take them home and look them up before starting them. If I don't agree with the med for the problem, I ask questions before starting and give the vet a chance to explain the diff I found.

I took my Shadoe to the vet, very sick, not eating or drinking, horrible sick. One stupid vet said to change food and sent me home. I went right back and screamed about knowing my cat had pancreatitis and I wanted a real vet to help us NOW. I was ushered into a waiting room and a good vet at that office came along, recognized pancreatitis right away, started giving her fluids, as well as injections for nausea and pain, and sent me home with a fluids kit, lots of bupe, and meds for nausea if it got bad. I had also demanded she be tested for pancreatitis along with full b/w. Sure enough, a few days later the results showed her fPLI around 14 and the range is 0-3.5.
That same office gave me big trouble, refusing to have Shadoe tested for agromegaly. I had to gather all the info what tests had to be done, sent where, and by what courier and with what instructions. Even when the tests came back positive 120 above the 0-92 negative range, they said she tested negative. Had I believed their 'words' and not said show me the copies, I would have believed them.
This same office knew nothing of home testing, thought caninsulin was a fine insulin and knew nothing about using any other insulin for animals.
I left that office and found a real vet.

By taking charge, you are giving yourself the power of control and knowledge.
 
Gosh, I am so sorry for all your losses. You have been through hell.

The vets sound clueless. It sucks to deal with people who are all over the place and contradicting each other.

If you start hometesting you'll at least have a record of BG's. I'd think that another vet would be able to look at your data and be able to see a pattern. It seems to me that would be a good place to start.

Regarding asthma, my Merlin has it (avitar) and he's on a Flovent inhaler twice a day. This is given every day and it bulids up in the system. He was dx'd via a chest x-ray. He coughs when he doesn't have his flovent. He used to pant too.

It sounds like your guy is needs his airways cleared quickly - for that you use a different inhaler med called albuterol which is different - it's more for emergencies when he can't breathe. It sounds like he could use this. The albuterol is CHEAP luckily. It's like $10 in Target. You give them the medicine with an Aerokat chamber. It's got a mask that you put on their face. It's easy. In fact - I made a video of me given Merlin a puff.

Good luck!!!! I hope you can find the help you need.

http://s975.photobucket.com/albums/ae234/TraciMaselli/Trinket/?action=view&current=MVI_0450.mp4
 
Gayle, I did "everything" that you mentioned. I will test as I have a One Touch ultra, but, I am waiting for the test solution to arrive Monday. I have full intention of testing once I am convinced he has it. DKA can make them very sick, but Hypo can kill them if not reversed. He is not showing any symptoms. Now that he is breathing better he is eating better. I'm watching the litter for flooding signs and his back legs look strong.

I kept telling the doc I think possibly that the infection is also inflaming his pancreas causing high readings that go up and down. But then he could have it. I'll test him tomorrow.

But get this:

vet number 1..... says could be Pancreatitis or Diabetes or not.

vet 2 did many tests incl ultra sound and urine test.....says nope not diabetic

vet 3 did blood test and.....says definitely Diabetes..gave scrip for Lantus (never heard of Levemir so refused to script it.

vet 4 yesterday did urine test again reading 149 no sugar dumped...not Diabetes stop the insulin I'm thinking it's not in the range..but I don't fully understand it

vet 4 today..says fructos test back..numbers high. he has it put back on insulin

Tracy I have an aerokat and Flovent and Albuterol He is not showing classic signs of Asthma and does not have it I am sure.

A sincere thank you to all of you..you are the best!
 
Can you do a test on yourself to see if the meter is running accurate? That is if you know what you usually run.
Coughing is not a common thing in cats. I would want to know what is causing it.
 
The fPLI test is simple enough to do and it is either positive or negative; no guessing.
The 0-3.5 is negative. The range around maybe 3.5 to 4.0 is kind of iffy but positive, and above that is positive.

Positive pancreatitis is painful and needs to be treated.

My Oliver was always in the grey area and I just upped his water intake and gave him fluids once in awhile.
He was on gabapentin for chronic pains, so I did not give him any bupe unless he was snappy, like when he gotg headaches.

My Shadoe was always testing high for pancreatitis, but as soon as I started giving her B12 shots (the pink stuff) at home, weekly, she has had only one mild issue of mild pancreatitis. Talk to the vet about getting a vial fo B12 to give shots at home..... it's good for many things, so you may see a good improvement with it. Shadoe had no hind legs issues, only the inflamed pancreas all the time. The instructions were to give weekly for 6wks, biweekly for 6wks, and then monthly for maint. As Shadoe's had such bad problems, I pretty much stuck to weekly for her.

I needed to give her Pepcid BID and always had bupe and fluids on hand for her, which were needed almost weekly for her. Now with the B12, I need none of them.
 
I have never tested my self, but the doc says I am at risk or borderline. I have no reference.

Andre' has been sick since the end of December and treated for "possible Pancreas problems" and a severe viral turned bacterial infection. He was only officially diagnosed five days ago and then undiagnosed three days ago and re-diagnosed yesterday.

I rec'd my test liquid and strips yesterday so I will "attempt" to test a very overly medically abused cat.

Depending on his numbers I will start shooting again at one unit BID (U100)

New roof being put on today and the cats are going a bit nuts. Created lots of hiding places for them. I have twelve in my two story house. Andre' is in my mini shelter where all my new ferals go first. There are nine in there and they are not affected by the roofing.

Have a nice day everyone. It is very sunny and mild here after a fierce wind storm yesterday blowing off the bay.
 
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