Dont know what to feed

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Princess mother

Princess mother

Member Since 2015
I need some advice. My 9 year old overweight cat, Princess, was just diagnosed with diabetes. The vet wants her to eat Purina DM. I gave her the dry for 5 days and she gained over a pound. She wont eat the wet DM. she wants the Fancy Feast that she was eating before the diagnosis. I want her to eat so i can give her the insulin but dint want to do any harm by giving her Fancy Feast. She is very finicky. Please help. Marie
 
My diabetic would not eat the canned DM either and the vet made me feel like it was the only option. Not true! Fancy Feast Classic varieties are a great choice! But not the ones with gravy just the classic flavors. Low carb/high protein.
 
here's a sub list of the acceptable fancy feasts....

carbs in % . . last number is phosphorus ( FKD cats need under 250 phosphorus)
4% - fancy feast CLASSICS chicken feast- 546 - beware of those that are not classics ...
4%- fancy feast chopped grilled feast pate -569
2%- fancy feast cod, sole & shrimp feast pate – 787
4%- fancy feast Ocean Whitefish and tuna pate 823
1% -fancy feast Savory Salmon feast pate – 369
5% -fancy feast Tender beef feast pate -637
5% -fancy feast Tender beef and chicken feast pate -502
5% - fancy feast Tender beef and liver feast pate – 525
4% -fancy feast Tender liver and chicken feast pate -598
3% - fancy feast Turkey & giblets feast pate – 355
5% -fancy feast salmon and shrimp feast -550
4% -fancy feast kitten tender turkey feast -474
5% - fancy feast kitten tender ocean whitefish feast - 689
5% -fancy feast chunky chicken feast -637
7% - fancy feast chunky turkey feast -624
7% -fancy feast chunky chopped grill feast - 454
8% - fancy feast Flaked chicken and tuna feast - 434
0% - fancy feast Flaked fish and shrimp feast - 701
8% - fancy feast Flaked Salmon and whitefish feast - 458
7% - fancy feast Flaked Trout feast-395
 
Hi Rhiannon,
Thanks for the list of Fancy Feast. You write that FKD Cats need under 250 phosphorus but these are all 300 or more. Am i reading this correctly?
Marie

rhiannon and shadow said:
here's a sub list of the acceptable fancy feasts....

carbs in % . . last number is phosphorus ( FKD cats need under 250 phosphorus)
4% - fancy feast CLASSICS chicken feast- 546 - beware of those that are not classics ...
4%- fancy feast chopped grilled feast pate -569
2%- fancy feast cod, sole & shrimp feast pate – 787
4%- fancy feast Ocean Whitefish and tuna pate 823
1% -fancy feast Savory Salmon feast pate – 369
5% -fancy feast Tender beef feast pate -637
5% -fancy feast Tender beef and chicken feast pate -502
5% - fancy feast Tender beef and liver feast pate – 525
4% -fancy feast Tender liver and chicken feast pate -598
3% - fancy feast Turkey & giblets feast pate – 355
5% -fancy feast salmon and shrimp feast -550
4% -fancy feast kitten tender turkey feast -474
5% - fancy feast kitten tender ocean whitefish feast - 689
5% -fancy feast chunky chicken feast -637
7% - fancy feast chunky turkey feast -624
7% -fancy feast chunky chopped grill feast - 454
8% - fancy feast Flaked chicken and tuna feast - 434
0% - fancy feast Flaked fish and shrimp feast - 701
8% - fancy feast Flaked Salmon and whitefish feast - 458
7% - fancy feast Flaked Trout feast-395
Click to expand...
Hi
 
Deborah & Gadget said:
My diabetic would not eat the canned DM either and the vet made me feel like it was the only option. Not true! Fancy Feast Classic varieties are a great choice! But not the ones with gravy just the classic flavors. Low carb/high protein.
Click to expand...
Thanknyou. Yes, the vet was horrible and said there was no reason she doesn't liken it. All cats like it. Made me feel 2 inches tall. Marie
 
My vet told me to feed my cat Hills M/D exclusively and nothing else ever. I told her I doubted my Julius would eat only that because he was use to Fancy Feast every day and she told me to mix half Fancy Feast and half Hills M/D to get him use to the M/D. I'm still vary of the M/D food as it has corn starch and soy in it, two things that shouldn't be in a cats diet especially a diabetic cats diet.

I've had discussions with two vets about Fancy Feast and both have said that some varieties are low in carbs but NOT high in protein. I did my own investigation and found the low carb Fancy Feast varieties actually have MORE protein in them than the M/D food I was advised to give. I have no problem with giving my diabetic Fancy Feast. He's loved it for 15 years and now only gets the low-carb Fancy Feast twice a day and his glucose levels are super low.

But then I have read that some people's cats got high glucose from the Fancy Feast so it may not be suited for all cats. Perhaps mine has just built up a resistence to it after 15 years that it doesn't affect his glucose levels.
 
All cats certainly don't like it! Rosa won't touch the wet DM. A lot of the prescription foods aren't all that palatable for cats - they might eat small amounts because vets tell owners not to give the cat anything else. But prescription diets are expensive and are often not the best option anyway. If Princess already likes the FF classics, you're a step ahead of a lot of us for getting her on a good diet when diagnosed because she's already there. :)

My vet prescribed DM (on the advice of the dietitian they use, who works for Hills Science - surprise, surprise)! And wasn't too happy when I said Rosa won't eat it and I was buying her low carb standard cat food instead. But it doesn't seem to be doing her any harm, where not eating most certainly would!!

The Fancy Feast in gravy is high carb - I use it as a high carb food to bring up low numbers. Paul, I wonder if that's what you've heard about some of the varieties not being good for cats' glucose levels.
 
Does anyone know if there's any actual reason why it's considered by many vets NOT good to feed low carb standard cat food as opposed to much higher carb DM food?? Is it JUST about the carb content or are there other things happening here? Are the cats missing out on other required nutrients by not eating these DM foods?

Our vet has been so impressed with our research (based on this wonderful website of course!) into the different low carb foods. They were under the impression the automatic thing was to ONLY eat the DM food.
 
I think it's because the prescription diets are pushed to vets by the manufacturers - and because they're prescription only, they can only sell them to owners via vets. Vets have to handle a lot of conditions for a lot of different animals and mostly aren't also trained as dietitians so it's not their area of expertise. If they're told constantly that the prescription food is the only suitable one then it's likely a lot of them will finish up believing it.
 
Marketing, marketing, marketing .. and since the manufacturers can sell it for more than the regular food, they have a vested interest in having us buy it.
 
manxcat419 - I would say the stories I've heard is a case of feeding a high carb FF choice to their cat which explains the high glucose reading. It takes a bit of investigating to get the low-carb ones right but 99% of FF stories I have read have been positive and 1% have been not so positive so that speaks for itself. My Julius has remained on FF since he started on Lantus back in November and has always had low numbers even though I have fed him high-carb choices many times. But now my vet wants him on the MD only and no more Fancy Feast. He started on 1.5 units of Lantus but is now on 0.5 units.

Princess mother - I didn't think diabetic cats were suppose to eat ANY dry food due to its very high carb content and empty calories that put on weight. As soon as mine was diagnosed I was told to stop all dry food immediately! Perhaps there was a reason your vet told you to give Princess dry food, I don't know but perhaps you could ask your vet or check the carb content of the Purina DM. On a different note, I also sat down with a can of MD and FF and went through each ingredient and researched it online and I felt that FF was much better but that's just my own opinion from researching. My Julius won't eat just the MD on its own, it smells so bad as well.
 
There are very, very few dry foods that are low carb - Evo Cat and Kitten, Orijen 90, and Young Again 0 carb (5% calories from carbohydrates) - and these may be used as transition foods to get the carbs down while you work on getting the wet food eating, as much as possible.
 
BJM - I agree with you every time I bring up the subject of the Hills food vs Fancy Feast with my vet I feel like I'm at a marketing seminar for Hills and no matter what percentages or facts and figures I give my vet about Fancy Feast I'm constantly given a sales pitch on Hills - frustrating.
 
The Hills was pushed to me as being the only suitable food too - until I did some research on the list of foods at Cat Info after it was linked for me on my first day here. I did try feeding it to Rosa once the first night - no cat food smells that great, but that was way worse than most. And she hated it. I went out the next day and bought some low carb food in Walmart. I had some issues getting her to accept different flavors as she'd been a dry food only kitty for years (also a prescription of Royal Canin SO which with hindsight I'm sure contributed to the diabetes).

My vet was very unsure when I spoke to her that the food I was buying was going to be good enough. But in the end, I pay for vet visits, for prescriptions, for insulin and syringes and testing supplies. So if I decide I'm going to feed something other than is recommended by the vet after researching it for suitability, that's what I'm going to feed. Rosa is my cat and I care about her health very much - not only am I the paying customer, so have the choice whether or not to follow advice, but I'm going to do the best I can for her even if that means going against the vet's advice on food. I also changed their dosage instructions for insulin on advice from people here who gave me the link to the Lantus TR protocol - again, the vet wasn't happy but Rosa's doing well and that matters more to me than approval for every action I take from someone I pay for their opinion. Nor will I be taken in by marketing after falling for that once on the advice of a different vet who had my 2 on the SO dry food for 6 years.
 
manxcat419 - my frame of mind is exactly the same as you. I respect my vets advice and opinions but I am the one who has been researching feline diabetes on a daily basis since November and coming to this forum has taught me so much more than any vet could ever tell me. I'm the one who has spent entire weekends in front of the laptop with cans of cat food all over the coffee table researching which are good and which are bad. At the same time I am the one who is living with a diabetic cat and I'm the one that knows his behaviour the best. If I decide that my cat is happier and healthier (low readings) on one type of food over another than I am going to choose the one which is improving his well being. I also go by my gut instinct and usually that instinct is correct. I have been to 2 vets because I wanted a second opinion on Julius and his diabetes and I am so glad that I did. Julius was far from being overweight he was about 5kgs (11lbs) definitely not obese right? Well the first vet said he was obese, ran a blood test and the next day confirmed diabetes and told me I would have to start him on 3 units of Lantus that night. He taught me to do the shots and left me with the syringes and Lantus and that was it.

The diagnoses was extremely stressful me and I came on line and found this forum and I read and read and read that night and refused to start 3 units of Lantus. Firstly Julius was not obese and second of all 3 units of Lantus was a huge amount for a cat that had one single blood test. Anyway I did go to another vet and got a second opinion and I am glad I did as proper blood tests were done and I was told to start on 1.5 units of Lantus. But looking back now if I had started injecting 3 units in Julius I am fairly confident he would not be with me today due to an overdose. I wasn't even told about hypos I had to find out about them on this forum. I wasn't even told to give him insulin with food just 12 hours apart. I knew nothing about diabetes at the time of diagnoses but something didn't feel right especially after finding this forum but I'm sure Julius would have had a hypo after just one 3 unit injection. Needless to say 1.5 units proved to be too high for Julius and he went down to 1 unit and is now on 0.5 units and this is only after 3 months of treatment. Imagine if I started Julius on 3 units of insulin without any food and just went about my business?

That lesson is what taught me to research research research and use my own judgement and gut feeling about what is best for my cat. At the end of the day if I don't follow my vets advice and Julius gets ill it is on my shoulders and some thing I will have to live with and even though I debate with my vet so far every decision I have made for Julius has only improved his health and well being so I'm doing it right and I will keep doing what is best for him.
 
It really is frightening the way prescribing is done for cats. I was given basic info on hypo from my vet (basically if she acted drunk to get syrup into her and take her straight to the emergency vet), but was told to start Rosa on 2 units twice per day with no home testing. You can see from her spreadsheet how disastrous that would have been - the 2 unit dose was the maximum she got to and she had to start coming back down very quickly. If I hadn't been home testing at that time, or if I'd simply followed the vet's instructions and given her 2 units at every shot without testing her, she wouldn't have survived the first week. When she did go low it was at 2am - had I not been testing her at home, I'd have been asleep and no doubt not woken up until it was too late. I was scared by being told to effectively shoot insulin blind as I've seen in humans just how difficult it can be to keep control of BG levels all the time so I started looking for information online and, thankfully, found this board. I completely agree, 3 units is way too high as a starting dose for a cat of Julius's weight.

5kgs is not overweight for most cats. Both of my 2, who are female and not all that big, weigh in at around 10.5 lbs (about 4.5kgs) each. They're not skinny, but they're certainly not obese. And when Rosa went down to 8.5 lbs she was very definitely and obviously frighteningly underweight.

I agree with you - we're the ones who live with these special cats and who can see every day whether or not their quality of life as well as just their numbers are good. And we can tell very quickly whether or not our decisions are right and reconsider if they don't seem to be helping. In the end, the vet can advise, but we have to live with the decisions we make on behalf of our cats. I'm so glad you were able to get a second opinion before it was too late and that we both found the wealth of information on here before either or our cats was damaged by incomplete information.
 
Absolutely frightening. I even confronted the first vet with everything I read on line here, hypos, glucose curves, home testing etc and I was told, "don't read about his condition online just do what I say."

Hmmm when he said that it made me do the opposite. One of the first ever articles I read was the 'start low and go slow' approach and that article is what started making me think that I needed a second opinion immediately. I have had to fight about a few opinions with the second vet but we generally reach a compromise of sorts. Last week she told me not to home test but I told her I'm going to home test daily anyway (that's how we compromise), I mean of course I'm going to home test it's so important as you know from Rosa's case.

I was testing on and off but now I am aiming to test him daily once I perfect the technique of the ear pricking.

This forum pretty much saved the life of my cat and saved my sanity as well. I still remember the overwhelming amount of information I was reading on here and looking back on things I couldn't believe the first vet didn't even mention 1% of what was involved with caring for a diabetic cat.

Your two cats are at about the same weight as my Julius now, he is down to 10.5lbs and feels just the right size but no he definitely was not obese when I read some diabetic cats are at 20-25 lbs or so.

Anyway that was quite a rant I went on, it felt good to let it all out actually.
 
It really does help sometimes to rant in a place where other people understand exactly how you feel.

And yes, the 'do as I say and don't question it' line from just about any professional makes me question everything even more too! The testing is mostly just practice to get it right - I still have days where I have to take a second attempt, but I'm getting better at it. There's nothing quite like having no option because I know Rosa's dropping low to concentrate my mind into getting it right of course. But if I can do it - and I was terrified of hurting her or making her hate me to begin with - then so can you. :)
 
Sometimes I think these vets need to own a diabetic pet themselves to make them realise exactly what is involved in caring for one and not just dish out incomplete or bad advice.

I am pretty much the same as you I don't really have any option I need to start checking him daily, his insulin dose keeps dropping and his glucose levels are so low I need to monitor those levels very carefully. Julius is getting ok with the ear pricking but I was worried about hurting him when I initially started (and I still do worry) but he seems to sit still most of the time I try.

Just like learning the insulin injections it will just take a bit of time.
 
I think you're right - there's nothing like direct experience with this condition to make you realize just how much managing it takes. Not just once every few weeks at the vet's office, but every single day.

It's surprising how little the testing seems to bother them overall. Most times, although Rosa doesn't exactly like the testing, she'll lay on my lap quietly while I get it done. Of course she has her moments, especially when I'm having to do lots of tests because she's around 50 or lower, when she gets tired of it and wriggles about. But I can't really blame her for that!

It's good news for Julius of course that he's getting to lower doses. I think the ultimate dream for all of us owners of diabetic cats is that they might become diet controlled some day and needing less insulin is a step in the right direction. It just means that as owners, we're on a roller coaster ride while they're coming down the dosing scale of course. I think we all have days where we worry or where we think we're not coping, but somehow we get through it for the sake of our cats. Rosa's been coming down the doses fairly quickly and, I'll be honest, sometimes it's exhausting when I can only get 2 or 3 hours sleep because I've had to stay up late monitoring her. I'm sure you know that feeling too with Julius getting low levels at a low dose. But I wouldn't change anything about what I'm doing because I know I'm doing what she needs me to do - she can't speak up for herself so I have to fight for her. And if some days that means battling with her to get the tests I need to make sure she's safe, then I'll carry on doing that too.
 
Hi Rhiannon,
Thanks for the list of Fancy Feast. You write that FKD Cats need under 250 phosphorus but these are all 300 or more. Am i reading this correctly?
Marie
yes. you are.
fancy feast is good for diabetics.... but not kidney disease cats.... it's too high in phosphorus.

catinfo.org is our master list....http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf
you can get all the info you need about the foods we know about.... there are many we don't know because the company won't share the info and we don't use those if they won't help us out.
 
Hi Princess Mother,

Did you get the information you needed?

Looks like lots of other good information here but perhaps a bit of "hijacking" to your original thread question.
 
:oops: yes, sorry - we did hijack the thread a bit last night. Apologies Princess Mother - it wasn't intentional - the discussion about food led into other subjects for a bit.
 
Hello Marie and Princess.

You can add my Saoirse to the list of cats that don't like DM. :) I'm also another person that was told to feed one of the Hills dry diabetic diets by the vet who diagnosed Saoirse. It was w/d dry - essentially kitty cornflakes - and I thought it was NUTS to feed a diabetic an even higher carb food than she had been eating before Dx. Thankfully we moved to a practice nearer home shortly afterwards. The vets at the new practice are much more switched on to feline diabetes (one of them has a diabetic cat), and whereas they did recommend Purina DM canned for Saoirse, they were fully supportive of my choice to feed Saoirse a grain-free, low carb, quality commercial food. (Saoirse's a bit tricky to feed because of her pancreatitis. In the short period when I trialled Saoirse on DM her pancreatitis symptoms worsened.)
 
I'm sorry I missed the food rant, cause I've been food ranting right from the moment I learned about low carb and what a difference it makes. If it helps anyone here, my vet did recommend a switch to low carb food, and she recommended Fancy Feast Classics, she said they are just as good as the Hills DM, but a lot cheaper. All my cats, not just my sugarcoat have thrived on Fancy Feast classic. It's been like turning the clock back on them, watching them come out of a stupor. The pet food business, IMO, is responsible for the vast majority of feline diabetes in this country, probably in most developed countries. They hoodwink vets who should know better, and foist their cheap empty carbs off on unsuspecting animal lovers. We should not be surprised, it's absolutely no different than what has happened to the human food supply in this country.

OK, so I did a food rant...:rolleyes: But Marie -- I couldn't tell, are you giving Princess Fancy Feast Classics or the Gravy? Only the Classic are low carb.
 
Many vets are wired into dry food being the right food for the diabetic cat. Not so, I say. The Purina DM sent my cats sugars soaring. Any dry food seems to have that affect. I have gone to wet food only. I use Friskies or Fancy Feast...pate. Some of the sliced/shredded elevate her sugar as well. Just think about the dry food. First of all, it lacks moisture...2nd, it is very high in carbs...3rd, it's plant protein and cats are not vegetarians. It took a bit of time to switch her on to the wet...dry was all she had ever had (she was a rescue). Give it a try and maybe give you vet some research from Dr. Lisa and the others listed on DCIN. Couldn't hurt.. Good luck from jane and stewey
 
Deb & Wink said:
Hi Princess Mother,

Did you get the information you needed?

Looks like lots of other good information here but perhaps a bit of "hijacking" to your original thread question.
Click to expand...
Hi Deb,
Thanks for asking. I dont know if Ingot the info I need. My head is still spinning. I went to the pet food store and spent hours reading labels. In the end, I came home and cried. I was feeding Princess FFClassics for years. How do I know that didnt cause her diabetes? My other two cats from the same litter eat it too and they are fine. Before this diagnosis the vet put her on Hills RD for weight loss which I think actually made her fatter. Food is so very important,mi just want to do right by her.
Marie
 
Martha and Lolly said:
I'm sorry I missed the food rant, cause I've been food ranting right from the moment I learned about low carb and what a difference it makes. If it helps anyone here, my vet did recommend a switch to low carb food, and she recommended Fancy Feast Classics, she said they are just as good as the Hills DM, but a lot cheaper. All my cats, not just my sugarcoat have thrived on Fancy Feast classic. It's been like turning the clock back on them, watching them come out of a stupor. The pet food business, IMO, is responsible for the vast majority of feline diabetes in this country, probably in most developed countries. They hoodwink vets who should know better, and foist their cheap empty carbs off on unsuspecting animal lovers. We should not be surprised, it's absolutely no different than what has happened to the human food supply in this country.

OK, so I did a food rant...:rolleyes: But Marie -- I couldn't tell, are you giving Princess Fancy Feast Classics or the Gravy? Only the Classic are low carb.
Click to expand...
Only the classics. She wont eat the gravies.
 
If you're giving her the classics then you don't need to change what she's eating - they're on the low carb list :) So no, the food you were feeding all that time didn't cause her diabetes at all - it's one of the ones a lot of us use to help control diabetes for our cats.
 
manxcat419 said:
If you're giving her the classics then you don't need to change what she's eating - they're on the low carb list :) So no, the food you were feeding all that time didn't cause her diabetes at all - it's one of the ones a lot of us use to help control diabetes for our cats.
Click to expand...
So, maybe if i stop all dry food and only give her the FF i will see better results.
 
Phasing out the dry food should certainly help. But I wouldn't try and take it away altogether too quickly. It might upset her tummy if she's been used to getting a mix of the 2. And suddenly taking away the carbs in the dry food when she's already on insulin might cause her to drop further than you'd like. With Rosa, I phased out the dry food while transitioning her to the low carb wet. And while checking her numbers at home to make sure the reduction in carbs wasn't taking her too low.
 
manxcat419 said:
Phasing out the dry food should certainly help. But I wouldn't try and take it away altogether too quickly. It might upset her tummy if she's been used to getting a mix of the 2. And suddenly taking away the carbs in the dry food when she's already on insulin might cause her to drop further than you'd like. With Rosa, I phased out the dry food while transitioning her to the low carb wet. And while checking her numbers at home to make sure the reduction in carbs wasn't taking her too low.
Click to expand...
Thank you. That makes sense.
 
manxcat419 said:
Phasing out the dry food should certainly help. But I wouldn't try and take it away altogether too quickly. It might upset her tummy if she's been used to getting a mix of the 2. And suddenly taking away the carbs in the dry food when she's already on insulin might cause her to drop further than you'd like. With Rosa, I phased out the dry food while transitioning her to the low carb wet. And while checking her numbers at home to make sure the reduction in carbs wasn't taking her too low.
Click to expand...
Good suggestion
 
I have another question. Does the lantus injection have to be given immediately after feeding? I was told no more than 15 minutes after eating?
 
With Lantus, not to my knowledge. I give Rosa her shot on time whether she's eaten much of her food at that point or not. If she hasn't eaten much before the shot, she'll eat within the 30 minutes or so afterwards. I think that information, again, may relate more to the older insulins than the gentler, longer-acting ones like Lantus. As Deb said on your other thread, Princess does need to eat, but it doesn't have to be all at the exact time she has her shot.
 
I test feed and shoot all within about 10-15 minutes. Its just more convenient for me to get it all done at once.
 
Good morning all. I have a question about the purina products and all the talk of Purina killing our pets . My Daughter Sam has been a member here for quite some time ,and thanks to the support of all of you here, her cat Ruben no longer requires insulin. She currently has him on Purina One Smartblend Chicken Pate because it only has 2% carbs. He is doing well on this food but now she is VERY concerned about the recent Purina scare. She wants to know if she should stay the course with the Purina One or switch to another 2% low carb canned food. If she should switch, can you reccomend a food that is comparable, and how to switch him without risking him developing insulin dependency or pancreatisis from the switch itself?
 
momsgirl2727 said:
I have a question about the purina products and all the talk of Purina killing our pets
Click to expand...

Do you have a link to the information on this by any chance? I've only heard about their dry food possibly being a problem recently, but I feed Friskies pates (made by Purina) so I'm quite concerned by this!
 
That looks like the same thing I'd seen though on a different website. It doesn't mention their cat food of course, but I'd hate to think I'd switched to what I thought was a healthy diet for Rosa only to find out that it isn't!
 
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