Dodie 6 y/o female, black cat

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edie zumwalt

Member Since 2013
Please bear with me Hillary & Maui, Deb & Wink. I have finally made it to new topic box. Trying to learn how to use the website.

My name is Edie. I live in Briarcliff, Texas, a suburb of Austin. Dodie was diagnosed the first of June. She was not eating and looking like she was losing weight. She was drinking water continually and lethargic. Her BS was over 400 and weighed 8lbs & 7oz. We almost lost her. She was in the hospital for over a week with a feeding tube. The Vet knew how much we loved her and was able to save her. The Vet started her on 1 unit of Lantus AM & PM. I have three other cats and they were all eating Iams dry food. The Vet explained wet food would be better. We changed to Purina DM dry for all the cats and I began changing her over to wet food. I have been reading a lot on nutrition and realize the importance of low carbs now. She doesn't eat much dry anymore, she likes the wet food. So changing her over was not to hard. She had one of those Frut?? blood tests 8/1/13 which shows the bs over a month. The results were still high. She weighs 9 lbs & 11 oz now. She is now on 4 units of Lantus Am & PM. I don't notice her drinking so much water now she is on the wet food but she still wants to eat all the time. I worry I am feeding her to much but she begs:(( I was wondering if her insulin needs to be increased and then worry about giving her to much. She seems to be back to her old self. She is playful when she is not sleeping, she purrs and maintains her hygiene. All advice and support is appreciated. I still have a lot to learn. Edie
 
Hello and welcome to the board!

Sounds like your vet has been giving you some good advice. However one key thing is missing.. Did they mention home testing? Home testing is important for a few reasons and will help address the issues you mentioned..

For example it gives you a much better picture of dodies blood sugar. The fructosamine test is an average over a few weeks so it doesn't tell you if you if she is sitting at 200 all the time which isn't bad, or bouncing too low to say 30 to high 370 which isn't good!

Home testing also keeps you from shooting when she is too low, which keeps her safe. Plus home testing is cheaper than any curves at the vet.

Lastly home testing will give you information you need to know if a dose change is needed or not. Or if she is going into remission.

We can help advise on what testing stuff to get and how to test if you like?

Wendy
 
Hi Edie and sugarprincess Dodie and welcome to the FDMB. It's good that you have started your own post so we can answer your specific questions and not get confused with another person's posts.

Would you tell us what wet foods you are feeding Dodie?
 
Welcome, Edie and Dodie! :YMHUG:

How are things going? 4u seems like a lot of insulin, however, it sounds like Dodie is still eating a bit of dry food? Have you decided to tackle home-testing? Transitioning Dodie fully to wet can cause a decrease in BGs (Blood Glucose), requiring a decrease in dose. If you're not monitoring at home, this could lead to a dangerous situation.

Please let us know what else we can assist you with. :-D
 
Check my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for info on urine testing for ketones (very important while working on regulation) and other assessments you may wish to make.
 
Well I am back!! I learned how to home test. Dodie has been doing good since last May 2013 when she was diagnosed with diabetics. I have transitioned her mostly to wet food, fancy feast classic. There is still dry food, Purina DM, available because I have three other kitties. They are all on the DM dry. Two of them will eat the wet so I give them wet also. Last week I noticed Dodie was eating less each day and not moving around much. Took her to the vet 1/23 and she had an infection, wbc 21,000, potassium lo. She was in the hospital all week on antibiotics, iv fluids and tube feedings. Brought her home 2/1. Her b/s was stable, changed to 2 units of lantus insulin each am & pm. She is drinking water and has had a BM but she is not eating. I checked her b/s this morning 9:30 and it was 89. I checked it now at 2:20 and it is 258 so I gave her 2 units. Should I have held her insulin? I was afraid, since she is not eating, to give her the insulin. She just sits and looks at her food since I brought her home yesterday. She did take a couple of laps of the juice this morning of the and I have rubbed some on her mouth but no luck:( Any suggestions??

Thanks for all the advice and help!!! Edie
 
Time to do some reading on Lantus!

It is a depot insulin and the effects build up over 3 or more days
It needs to be given every 12 hours, nearly exactly.
Shot time changes are either 15 minutes per shot or a total of 30 minutes per day.

The dose is changed based on the nadir, the lowest glucose between shots.
The nadir should stay above 50 mg/dL for new users; above 40 mg/dL for users over 1 year.
The nadir is somewhere between +5 to +7 hours after the shot.

Dose changes are small - 0.25 units at a time.
We suggest no shot below 200 mg/dL for new users or those without much test dat around the nadir. This number is gradually reduced as test data show it is safe.
 
You can heat the wet food in the microwave until nice and stinky. You can try putting a sprinkle of dry food she once liked on top, or tuna juice or parmesan cheese. Baby food sometimes works, without spices or onions. Beechnut meat flavors are usually good. Smear some food on her face or paws. Put some on your finger and offer it.
 
I've had some success getting my cats to eat a couple of ways.

  • - Nomi with some kind of irritable bowel: boiled up a concentrated, unseasoned fish stock; got a small fish carcass from the butcher; boiled a long while and removed bones
    - Napa, with high BG: the only people food Napa would ever eat is pork so I made a pork mousse; boiled up a pork chop into a concentrated stock, chopped up some of the meat and combined in the blender to make it a runny baby food consistency; saved the remaining of the chopped up meat for snacks; put some in the freezer in small baggies for later
    - Napa while recovering from cryptococcous about 10 years ago: we had to resort to syringe feeding a slurry of canned food, very messy and unpleasant for all involved but it was pretty much last ditch effort before a feeding tube

Have you tried hand feeding? Sometimes getting down on their level as you encourage them to eat helps.
 
Hold the dish for her, right in front of her face. That sometimes would get my Wink to eat a bit more.

Is she still on antibiotics? Those often cause cats to eat a lot less.
 
Thank each of you for the suggestions!!! I will be trying them. she was on the feeding tube for a week so I sure don't want to go back to that.

Will let you know. Hugs Edie
 
GOOD NEWS!!!! Dodie is eating again. Thanks to all who gave me such good ideas. She now likes gravy and warm milk:)) She is eating normally now:)

Now to get her regulated on her insulin. Should I go to the Lantus group for help? BJM thank you for the info on lantus. Since I changed Dodie from dry to wet food I have been trying to regulate her insulin dosage. She was taking 4 units each am & pm before I changed her food to wet. Them 2 units each am & pm. Now I am on 1 u or 1/2 daily or twice a day. trying to adjust & decrease the dosage so she will take some each am & pm, Q 12 hours. When I brought her home on the 1st her bs was 161 at 9;30pm. I gave her 2 u.

on the 2nd at 9;30am her bs was 89 so I didn't give any insulin since she wasn't eating at the time. at 2;30 her bs was 258 so I gave her 2 u.

3rd at 9;30 am bs was 56..no insulin given, trying to get her to eat. at 6;30pm her bs was 303 so 2 u given.

4th at 8;30 am bs was 28 no insulin, check at 10;30am bs 115. at 6;30 bs was 319 so I gave only 1 u.

5th at 7:30am bs was 37, no insulin, check at 11am bs 128. at 6;30 bs was 311 so 1 u given.

6th at 7am bs was 71 gave 1u at 8am.check at 10;30 bs was LO. check at 6 pm bs was 40 no insulin.

7th at 6;30 am bs was 333 so 1 u given. at 6;30pm bs was 40.

8th at 6am bs 181. 10am bs 338 gave 1/2 u. at 9pm bs was 289 gave another 1/2 u.

9th at 7am bs is 35 no insulin. trying now to stabilize her on a lower dose to give every 12 hours.

realize thanks to your info dosage changes should be in small unit changes.

any other advice would be appreciated from you all...thanks again so much...Edie
 
Before you post over in the Lantus TR forum, it's very helpful to have a SS (spreadsheet) set up. Instructions for setting up our standard format, color coded SS are in the Tech Support forum. Here they are http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

It well enable people there to help you better if you have an SS setup.

Would it be possible for you to set that up? If you need help, there are people that help to set up the spreadsheet for members.
 
Might I suggest sticking with 0.5 units twice a day for now? The changes you've made have dropped the insulin requirement severely and I'm concerned you may inadvertently send her into a hypoglycemic crisis if you keep trying to give more than that and don't let her stabilize.
- You need 3 full days at the same dose before you evaluate for increase.
- Any time the glucose goes below 50 mg/dL, its an automatic decrease of 0.25 units.

First, comparing a human glucometer to a pet-specific glucometer is like reading temperature in Celsius vs Fahrenheit. Both are correct. You just need to know the reference ranges to interpret what the numbers mean.

[Glucose reference ranges are unsubstantiated and have been removed by Moderator]


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *​
How to use the glucose reference values chart:

When you get a test, look for the number on the chart that either equals, or contains, the test value you have. Read the information. As needed, make a decision and act.

Ex. You are a new insulin user and you test your cat before giving insulin. The test is 300. It probably is safe to give insulin.

Ex. You are an established user of Lantus, following the Tight Regulation protocol. You've tested around +5 to +7 to spot the nadir. It is 200 mg/dL. You probably need to increase the dose, following the instructions for the protocol.

Ex. Your cat is acting funny. The eyes are a bit dilated. You are concerned and test the glucose. The number is 35 mg/dL. ACK! The cat may be in a hypoglycemic state. You quickly follow the HYPO protocol linked in the glucose reference values chart. (which we really, really, suggest you print out and post on your refrigerator.)
 
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