Do cats give up?

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Kot

Kot

Member Since 2013
Our cat was doing more or less well for a while living with diabetes and kidney failure, pretty good regulation before his sister died last September and acceptable (to me) regulation since then. We went on a couple 5-8 night trips this summer and had a sitter give him his insulin shots and fluids for his kidney failure. His numbers were always bouncy while we were away, more in the high range (400-500 on ReliOn meter). He lost his appetite and started to get weak and lethargic after our last time away from him, about 10 days ago. I took him to the vet. His kidney values were elevated but not extremely bad; glucosamine curve showed good regulation (even though BG was above 450 at the time of test); elevated white blood cell count and elevated pancreas values. Vet suggested pancreatitis and Bailey is on an antibiotic for a third day and an appetite stimulant. I still have to syringe feed him because appetite stimulant does not do a great job - Bailey would lick a bit of mushy stuff from his plate and walk away. He just pretty much lays down on his side all day and either sleeps or stares in one spot. To me he looks as if he's given up... :(
I want to help him to get better but wonder if it is what he wants now :(
 
Loosing his sister could have been really hard on him. Perhaps he thought you were leaving him also. Pets don't have a sense of time. A few days feels like forever to him. You might try something like Feelaway to calm him down. Spend extra time with him. Give him lots of love and extra treats. I don't know what kind of meds your vet can offer, but I would try before giving up. If after some time, it might be kinder to let hhim go home. He has his sister waiting. I'm so sorry.
 
I am sorry about Bailey's sister. I am sure it was hard on all of you.

I can't tell from your post when the behavior changes started - back in Sept or more recently. However, a couple of things stand out to me.

First, antibiotics can make kitties feel just awful. Our first sugar kitty looked horrid while on certain antibiotics, so if the antibiotic is coincident with the behavior change, then that wouldn't surprise me at all.

Second, licking the plate and walking away sounds to me like nausea (this could be related to the antibiotics, or unrelated). It doesn't sound like you are using anything for nausea? If not, I know that some other folks here could suggest some. I haven't used them enough to make a strong recommendation.

You know your kitty, but until the white blood cells are back down and Bailey is getting good amounts of nutrition, my suggestion is that this isn't an insurmountable problem yet. I personally believe that cats do grieve a sibling. I've seen it first hand where nothing else would explain it. But I think that Bailey is mostly just feeling poorly right now.

Best of luck to you in figuring something out for dear Bailey :bighug:

Sandi & Whisper.
 
I've pretty much resigned myself to not taking any vacation until something happens to Snickers. I really don't have anyone I can trust to give her the insulin. It's up and down with her as far as eating then not eating and I'd rather deal with her myself.
 
donnalea said:
Loosing his sister could have been really hard on him. Perhaps he thought you were leaving him also. Pets don't have a sense of time. A few days feels like forever to him. You might try something like Feelaway to calm him down. Spend extra time with him. Give him lots of love and extra treats. I don't know what kind of meds your vet can offer, but I would try before giving up. If after some time, it might be kinder to let hhim go home. He has his sister waiting. I'm so sorry.
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Kot said:
Vet suggested pancreatitis and Bailey is on an antibiotic for a third day and an appetite stimulant.
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Has the vet actually tested Bailey for pancreatitis?

If it is pancreatitis then Bailey may need pain relief (my understanding is that pancreatitis can be a very painful condition).
And is he showing any signs of nausea? Nausea can often be enough to put a cat off their food, and once the nausea is addressed the cat may be able to eat again. (An appetite stimulant may not help if there is also nausea present...).

Please don't give up.
If it is pancreatitis it may well be possible to get him through this flare-up.
Do have a look at Marje's 'pancreatitis primer' here:
A Primer on Pancreatitis

Hugs to you, and well wishes to Bailey. :bighug::bighug::bighug:

Eliz
 
How is his red blood cell count? My cat looked terribly depressed... He has kd and was close to being anemic. We stayed him on b-12 supplements and it has helped him a lot. He no longer seems depressed. We also upped his sub q fluids and he's getting an ace inhibitor.
 
@Kot Turkey was dx with chronic pancreatitis and was initially just put on an antibiotic (for a concurrent UTI) and some supplements (denosyl, ursodiol, vitamin b12). He got progressively worse and I had the vet re-check him a week later - she prescribed anti-nausea meds (cerenia), an appetite stimulant (mirtazapine) and gave him a long-acting shot of buprenorphine for pain. The appetite stimulant took a few days to arrive and by that time the anti-nausea and pain meds had gotten him to the point where he didn't even need it and was eating on his own. He did the same thing as your kitty - go up to food, sniff it, lick his lips and walk away. I'd definitely ask about pain and anti-nausea meds.
 
Definitely if nauseous the appy stimulant will not help. Cerenia is good. They can give an injection then you can give the pills or injection at home. It will take more than a few days of it. Same thing with pain medication. Smokey needed it for weeks. Now just a small maintenance dose once a day.

One thing sticks out. Glucose of 450 is not regulation or good. However if there is an infection it could cause it to be that high. Are you testing for ketones?
 
DreMeister said:
I've pretty much resigned myself to not taking any vacation until something happens to Snickers. I really don't have anyone I can trust to give her the insulin. It's up and down with her as far as eating then not eating and I'd rather deal with her myself.
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Yes, I would do the same thing but... Have two young kids and though they both love our cat very much it would have been hard for me to say "No" to any type of vacations with them while my sweet furry son is in need of help and he is still around.
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Has the vet actually tested Bailey for pancreatitis?

If it is pancreatitis then Bailey may need pain relief (my understanding is that pancreatitis can be a very painful condition).
And is he showing any signs of nausea? Nausea can often be enough to put a cat off their food, and once the nausea is addressed the cat may be able to eat again. (An appetite stimulant may not help if there is also nausea present...).

Please don't give up.
If it is pancreatitis it may well be possible to get him through this flare-up.
Do have a look at Marje's 'pancreatitis primer' here:
A Primer on Pancreatitis

Hugs to you, and well wishes to Bailey. :bighug::bighug::bighug:

Eliz
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No, we did not do any specific test for pancreatitis. Does anybody know how expensive it is?
 
JanetNJ said:
How is his red blood cell count? My cat looked terribly depressed... He has kd and was close to being anemic. We stayed him on b-12 supplements and it has helped him a lot. He no longer seems depressed. We also upped his sub q fluids and he's getting an ace inhibitor.
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His RBC is low and has been for at least a year (5.2 and reference range is 5.92-9.93). Bailey is getting an injectable B12 every 4-5 days and he gets 100ml sub-Q fluids every day. What is an "ace inhibitor"?
 
Thank you everyone for the anti-nausea meds suggestions. Will ask our vet for that and a pain medicine after the holiday.
 
Woodsywife said:
Definitely if nauseous the appy stimulant will not help. Cerenia is good. They can give an injection then you can give the pills or injection at home. It will take more than a few days of it. Same thing with pain medication. Smokey needed it for weeks. Now just a small maintenance dose once a day.

One thing sticks out. Glucose of 450 is not regulation or good. However if there is an infection it could cause it to be that high. Are you testing for ketones?
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BG 450 is bad, I agree. That was one thing that hinted for me that he has an infection. I could not get his BG regulated for the past two weeks. I tested for ketones and got either negative or trace amount.
 
I have started Bailey on Slippery Elm Bark and Fortiflora today. Do you think its a good idea?
 
I have used slippery elm bark for nausea and it has helped. If the nausea is really bad or if the kitty is throwing up I always go for the cerenia injections.
 
Ondansetron/zofran has been a miracle for us for nausea..... my kitty is 12/13 pounds and gets 2mg usually 2x a day
I always give this before a stimulate as if has nausea the stim may make it worse....and you may not even need it:)
also gerbers 2 stage baby food is usually good to get them rolling again.
sending prayers.....
Also as @Tuxedo Mom said cerenia is great for throwing up --just a warning--the shot stings. I always give this in the fluid "bubble " to lessen the sting and I freeze the needle as well as keeping the bottle in the fridge. It works just as well in the fluids as not.
If your vet is giving the shot I personally would ask to give fluids before the shot or give fluids at home before bringing kitty to vet-
just my opinion-(and my cat :cat:)
:bighug::bighug:
 
Kot said:
I have started Bailey on Slippery Elm Bark and Fortiflora today. Do you think its a good idea?
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SEB can block other meds or supplements --I believe it should be separated by 1-2 hours... I love SEB and I know some have success with forti flora....not sure if you are using to stimulate appetite of for a pro biotic....
 
@Kot FWIW, the tablet form of Cerenia seems to be just as efficacious, is less expensive and doesn't sting like the shot does. I gave Turkey the injectable form initially and he actually yelled when the medication went in. He's typically incredibly stoic/patient with me (purrs and rubs up against the testing equipment box when I test his BG, doesn't react to insulin shots, etc.) so I knew it must have hurt! I have since been giving him the pill version (1/2 16 mg tab 1x per day until eating well) and he's been fine with that apart from it making him foam at the mouth if it hits his tongue - someone else posted about that happening with their cat as well so it must taste awful! As long as I get it down his throat we're good to go.
 
TurkeyCat said:
@Kot FWIW, the tablet form of Cerenia seems to be just as efficacious, is less expensive and doesn't sting like the shot does. I gave Turkey the injectable form initially and he actually yelled when the medication went in. He's typically incredibly stoic/patient with me (purrs and rubs up against the testing equipment box when I test his BG, doesn't react to insulin shots, etc.) so I knew it must have hurt! I have since been giving him the pill version (1/2 16 mg tab 1x per day until eating well) and he's been fine with that apart from it making him foam at the mouth if it hits his tongue - someone else posted about that happening with their cat as well so it must taste awful! As long as I get it down his throat we're good to go.
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You can also get some size 3 or 4 or 5 capsules dab it in butter and it slides right down.... and who doesn't like butter??:bighug:
 
Kot said:
His RBC is low and has been for at least a year (5.2 and reference range is 5.92-9.93). Bailey is getting an injectable B12 every 4-5 days and he gets 100ml sub-Q fluids every day. What is an "ace inhibitor"?
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the ace inhibitor he's on is called Benazapril and is because he was found to have some protien in his urine. (Proteinuria is the technical name.)

I will say since starting the b-12 methylcobalamin supplements every day it's really perked him up. For a few weeks all he was doing was sleeping and he looked sad. My cats Blood count was 6 at last check, so at the very bottom of normal. This past week he's taken to carrying around his toys again and is more Alert. I'll be curious to see what the improvement is in two weeks from now when he goes back. since your cat is already getting shots not sure how helpful it would be but I am pretty sure the shots are a synthetic form of b so maybe the methylcobalamin form would have an affect. Not sure. I would ask on a ckd forum.


If your cats iron levels are low you could ask about iron supplements as well. We just bought some liver to cook up for him as well.
 
Kot said:
Yes, I would do the same thing but... Have two young kids and though they both love our cat very much it would have been hard for me to say "No" to any type of vacations with them while my sweet furry son is in need of help and he is still around.
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My wife does trips with her daughter, but I stay home to take care of kitty. I'll keep doing it until the end.
 
Kot said:
Vet suggested pancreatitis and Bailey is on an antibiotic for a third day and an appetite stimulant. I still have to syringe feed him because appetite stimulant does not do a great job - Bailey would lick a bit of mushy stuff from his plate and walk away.
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Licking food then walking away is a classic sign of nausea. You need to tackle that first or the appy stimulant won't be worth a light. Go back to the vet ASAP and ask for ondansetron (typical dose is 1mg q12 for 10lb cat but can be up to 2mg q12). Ondansetron can take a few doses before it kicks in so it might be well worth asking the vet to also give Bailey a Cerenia injection as it can start giving anti-nausea benefit within hours. I would also suggest you ask the vet to give a B12 injection (can give a real boost - faster-acting than oral supplementation). Cerenia and ondansetron can be administered concurrently but your vet will need to look at all of Bailey's meds to make sure there are no adverse interactions. FYI, there is a major interaction between ondansetron and tramadol.

He just pretty much lays down on his side all day and either sleeps or stares in one spot. To me he looks as if he's given up... :(
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Obviously you need to consult with your vet but the above can be very typical of a cat with pancreatitis - especially if it is a very severe flare. (Saoirse has had two really bad flares - looked like she was at death's door both times but she pulled through fine, thank goodness.) You can ask your vet to run a SNAP fPL or Spec fPL blood test for pancreatitis.

Pancreatitis can be very painful and that can feed into the lethargy and depressed mood. Ask your vet about buprenorphine for pain relief.

Useful links - please take time to read them; they're invaluable:

IDEXX pancreatitis treatment guidelines

Nausea symptoms and treatments

A word of warning about ACE inhibitors (e.g. benazepril) - they can exacerbate inflammatory conditions such as arthritis (and can actually trigger pancreatitis). I found this out the hard way with Saoirse a few months ago. Should the need arise for such treatment in the future keep a close eye on pancreatitis and other inflammatory markers and clinical signs.


Mogs
.
 
PS ...

Watch the reaction to Fortiflora carefully - it can worsen the nausea. Also there is some debate about whether probiotic treatment might not be a good idea when pancreatitis is an issue.

When Saoirse is having issues with eating I crumble up freeze-dried chicken treats and sprinkle a little over her food; it works well. Also, try raising up Bailey's food and water dishes as this can help a nauseated cat immensely (try popping a few paperbacks under the dishes so that Bailey doesn't have to stoop to the food). Keep feeding little and often. If Bailey starts eating again from dishes try adding a teaspoon or two of water to each feed as proper hydration helps a great deal.


Mogs
.
 
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TurkeyCat said:
@Kot FWIW, the tablet form of Cerenia seems to be just as efficacious, is less expensive and doesn't sting like the shot does. I gave Turkey the injectable form initially and he actually yelled when the medication went in. He's typically incredibly stoic/patient with me (purrs and rubs up against the testing equipment box when I test his BG, doesn't react to insulin shots, etc.) so I knew it must have hurt! I have since been giving him the pill version (1/2 16 mg tab 1x per day until eating well) and he's been fine with that apart from it making him foam at the mouth if it hits his tongue - someone else posted about that happening with their cat as well so it must taste awful! As long as I get it down his throat we're good to go.
Click to expand...
It's good to syringe some water in their mouth to make sure that the pill goes down and not get stuck in the throat.
 
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