so, my cat has become a very difficult cat to regulate. He is still sitting in high numbers and I have had him on fancy feast cat food. What happens is that he eats well for a few days than stops and I can't get him to eat. I literally have had to go out and try a different food. Right now I have about 6 cans open and he does not want any. Well, this past weekend he started vomiting and not eating. His sugars never went hypo. I picked up some antipain, antinausea and appetite stimulant yesterday. The antipain was for the suspicion that he may have pancreatitis and it really made him out of it! But he did attempt to eat, though a very small amount. Today I took him into the vet to get a blood panel done and to check his pancreas. I left there feeling very discouraged as I was told that he was going to be difficult and that he would have to be closely monitored, going into the vet every couple of weeks or so, blood tests continuously taken. Of course, he also knows that I am not rich and money has been a struggle. So, it was like he was saying maybe it is my cat's time. I just have such a hard time with that notion. Is it right to put a cat down because of diabetes? I mean getting him to eat is a challenge and I really don't know what to do anymore. I keep hoping that something will change but am I being foolish? I realize that I have a lot of emotion attached here, but he is still walking, can jump, goes pee in the litterbox, but mostly sleeps. I feel like I just can't seem to help my buddy and I have let him down. He has been there so many times for me....is there anyone that has gone through this, or is there anything more to say. I so do appreciate any feedback :YMSIGH: I also feel that my vet was not so helpful to begin with and perhaps the dosage could have been higher to begin with.
Discouraged and sad...Now peacefully on the other side
- Thread starter corteza
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Likameow
Member Since 2014
Re: Discouraged and sad...
I think we have all been where you are right now. I spent many nights crying over Ben's high numbers. After a few months, his body suddenly figured out what to do with the isulin. He is still all over the place but I can see a response now. Are you home testing? That could cut down on the vet expenses. Ben's only been to the vet a couple times since his diagnosis (and not for the diabetes).
Here's some food suggestions from another post....
Ben eats better when the FF is watered down a little. We call it "cat food soup" :lol:
I'm fairly new at this so I won't try to give dosing advice but wanted you to know that you are not alone in this. {{hugs}}
Lisa
I think we have all been where you are right now. I spent many nights crying over Ben's high numbers. After a few months, his body suddenly figured out what to do with the isulin. He is still all over the place but I can see a response now. Are you home testing? That could cut down on the vet expenses. Ben's only been to the vet a couple times since his diagnosis (and not for the diabetes).
Here's some food suggestions from another post....
Ben eats better when the FF is watered down a little. We call it "cat food soup" :lol:
I'm fairly new at this so I won't try to give dosing advice but wanted you to know that you are not alone in this. {{hugs}}
Lisa
Dyana
Member Since 2009
Re: Discouraged and sad...
Vets unfortunately, don't in general get a whole lot of courses on Feline Diabetes.
My kitty had diabetes for 9+ years, and just passed away at a little over 20 years old.
Hang in there, is what I'm trying to say. Keep posting here, and we'll help you.
Vets unfortunately, don't in general get a whole lot of courses on Feline Diabetes.
My kitty had diabetes for 9+ years, and just passed away at a little over 20 years old.
Hang in there, is what I'm trying to say. Keep posting here, and we'll help you.
Re: Discouraged and sad...
Thank you. I think I will just leave him for tonight in terms of trying to get him to eat...he vomitted abit earlier. I think he is still recovering from his stomach upset? and going to the vet and all. He seems unsure of what is going on around him though I think it is the narcotics he is on. I am not going to give him anymore cause not sure if he is even in pain. It really helps to know that I am not alone as that is how I feel with all this. I have no family members that support this and my husband is away for 21 days. Thanks again. Like the idea of little meatballs, I wonder if you could make a paste out of the ff and do it that way?
Thank you. I think I will just leave him for tonight in terms of trying to get him to eat...he vomitted abit earlier. I think he is still recovering from his stomach upset? and going to the vet and all. He seems unsure of what is going on around him though I think it is the narcotics he is on. I am not going to give him anymore cause not sure if he is even in pain. It really helps to know that I am not alone as that is how I feel with all this. I have no family members that support this and my husband is away for 21 days. Thanks again. Like the idea of little meatballs, I wonder if you could make a paste out of the ff and do it that way?
jt and trouble (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: Discouraged and sad...
has his tummy been xrayed? He may just have a stubborn furball?
just a thought
you both are in my prayers,
jeanne
has his tummy been xrayed? He may just have a stubborn furball?
just a thought
you both are in my prayers,
jeanne
Re: Discouraged and sad...
Being alone physically with this has been terribly hard...but since I joined you all, you have always been there when I needed support or advise. Sending you big hugs. I will let you know how he is tomorrow. I will try to make some tiny meatballs and see how that works. :YMHUG:
Being alone physically with this has been terribly hard...but since I joined you all, you have always been there when I needed support or advise. Sending you big hugs. I will let you know how he is tomorrow. I will try to make some tiny meatballs and see how that works. :YMHUG:
Lisa and Witn (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: Discouraged and sad...
Did the vet do any blood work? One of my cats recently went through something similar. It turned out to be a blood infection caused by a flea bite. She was on an antibiotic for 3 weeks along with antinausea and appetite stimulant meds. During the first week I had to force feed her, but within a few days she began to eat some food on her own.
Did the vet do any blood work? One of my cats recently went through something similar. It turned out to be a blood infection caused by a flea bite. She was on an antibiotic for 3 weeks along with antinausea and appetite stimulant meds. During the first week I had to force feed her, but within a few days she began to eat some food on her own.
JoyceOlive
Member Since 2014
Re: Discouraged and sad...
So sorry that your kitty is going through a rough time.I will say a little prayer for you both.may better days be ahead.My kitties also love cooked chicken with broth when the processed canned food turns them off.I just recently have started slowly cooking bones of all kinds,it turns into a jello consistency in the fridge.It is supposed to be extremely healthy,more so than just broth.I have been feeding this to my Whitey now for a couple weeks and his numbers are improving and he seems to have more energy.You do need to simmer it for at least 8 hours.
So sorry that your kitty is going through a rough time.I will say a little prayer for you both.may better days be ahead.My kitties also love cooked chicken with broth when the processed canned food turns them off.I just recently have started slowly cooking bones of all kinds,it turns into a jello consistency in the fridge.It is supposed to be extremely healthy,more so than just broth.I have been feeding this to my Whitey now for a couple weeks and his numbers are improving and he seems to have more energy.You do need to simmer it for at least 8 hours.
Larry and Kitties
Member Since 2009
Re: Discouraged and sad...
What anti-nausea drugs are you giving? Cerinia and Ondansetron are best and can be given together. Cerinia is once a day and the other can be twice daily.
Have you tried sringe feeding? Like 15 mil per hour?
Does the vet have any theories about what is the cause of the vomiting?
What anti-nausea drugs are you giving? Cerinia and Ondansetron are best and can be given together. Cerinia is once a day and the other can be twice daily.
Have you tried sringe feeding? Like 15 mil per hour?
Does the vet have any theories about what is the cause of the vomiting?
Blamethecats and Hannah
Member Since 2014
Re: Discouraged and sad...
Oh, my, I can't tell you how many times I have felt like you are feeling. I still have many days like that... yesterday was one of them. Cried off and on all day over my fur baby. However, the day before that, she had a good day. I just never know with Hannah. Folks here refer to it as a "sugar dance". I think it's more like one heck of a roller coaster ride, as I like to dance and feline diabetes isn't all that much fun.
First of all, are you home testing Nelson's blood glucose? You can purchase an inexpensive human glucometer and test strips and do that yourself and then you won't need to take him in to the vet for that purpose. He should always be tested prior to giving insulin. You don't want to give insulin if his numbers are too low. That can be very dangerous. Home testing might also provide clues as to why Nelson acts the way he does. Knowing his glucose numbers right now instead of waiting to go to the vet can be very helpful. Some vets don't agree with this approach. They don't think we kitty parents are capable of dealing with this, but they are WRONG. Keep in mind that your vet works for you, not the other way around. Don't be afraid to take charge. If your vet can't handle that, it might be time to find another vet. Your vet sounds like he's perhaps lacking in knowing how to direct you to deal with Nelson's diabetes. Many vets are that way, as they haven't had specific enough training on the subject. They go by the textbook and don't know how to deal with the day-to-day care of each individual cat, as every cat is definitely different. Are there other vets in your area that might be more supportive and easier to work with?
I am a long way from being an expert on giving you much advice on dealing with a diabetic kitty. My Hannah was diagnosed in May 2014, and she is still not even close to being regulated. Some kitties respond quickly, others do not. I have many, many days when I feel like I am letting my little girlie down. Truth is, I'm not, but it sure does feel that way. I am trying hard to do the best I can and accept that in itself. It is a very difficult thing to do, I know.
When Hannah was first diagnosed, she slept all the time and wouldn't eat... like your Nelson. She also vomited up numerous hairballs. Now she is, for the most part, past that. After all this time, she acts somewhat more like herself. With the help of Cyproheptadine, an appetite stimulant prescribed by her vet (after I suggested it to him), she is eating much better. That makes dosing insulin somewhat easier and the results a little more predictable.
I don't know if any of this info will be of help, but I just want you to know that you are not alone with your feelings and concern for Nelson. Just by coming here, you are doing him (and yourself) a huge favor. Good for you! Hugs :YMHUG: to you and Nelson.
Oh, my, I can't tell you how many times I have felt like you are feeling. I still have many days like that... yesterday was one of them. Cried off and on all day over my fur baby. However, the day before that, she had a good day. I just never know with Hannah. Folks here refer to it as a "sugar dance". I think it's more like one heck of a roller coaster ride, as I like to dance and feline diabetes isn't all that much fun.
First of all, are you home testing Nelson's blood glucose? You can purchase an inexpensive human glucometer and test strips and do that yourself and then you won't need to take him in to the vet for that purpose. He should always be tested prior to giving insulin. You don't want to give insulin if his numbers are too low. That can be very dangerous. Home testing might also provide clues as to why Nelson acts the way he does. Knowing his glucose numbers right now instead of waiting to go to the vet can be very helpful. Some vets don't agree with this approach. They don't think we kitty parents are capable of dealing with this, but they are WRONG. Keep in mind that your vet works for you, not the other way around. Don't be afraid to take charge. If your vet can't handle that, it might be time to find another vet. Your vet sounds like he's perhaps lacking in knowing how to direct you to deal with Nelson's diabetes. Many vets are that way, as they haven't had specific enough training on the subject. They go by the textbook and don't know how to deal with the day-to-day care of each individual cat, as every cat is definitely different. Are there other vets in your area that might be more supportive and easier to work with?
I am a long way from being an expert on giving you much advice on dealing with a diabetic kitty. My Hannah was diagnosed in May 2014, and she is still not even close to being regulated. Some kitties respond quickly, others do not. I have many, many days when I feel like I am letting my little girlie down. Truth is, I'm not, but it sure does feel that way. I am trying hard to do the best I can and accept that in itself. It is a very difficult thing to do, I know.
When Hannah was first diagnosed, she slept all the time and wouldn't eat... like your Nelson. She also vomited up numerous hairballs. Now she is, for the most part, past that. After all this time, she acts somewhat more like herself. With the help of Cyproheptadine, an appetite stimulant prescribed by her vet (after I suggested it to him), she is eating much better. That makes dosing insulin somewhat easier and the results a little more predictable.
I don't know if any of this info will be of help, but I just want you to know that you are not alone with your feelings and concern for Nelson. Just by coming here, you are doing him (and yourself) a huge favor. Good for you! Hugs :YMHUG: to you and Nelson.
Re: Discouraged and sad...
Good morning to all of you! I am overwhelmed with all the love here once again! I actually felt stronger after reading the last reply last night. I do check his blood myself and because he is not eating right now my dose is quite low. The antinausea is called Cerenia and I have not run out. I haven't seen the antitstimulant work as of course he is not eating. I will try the cooked chicken and geled broth. With the gel chicken broth, do you just give it to kittie just like than or mix it in with food? Anyway, I start this day with a prayer and hope to see some small improvements in his eating. Talk soon. :YMHUG:
Good morning to all of you! I am overwhelmed with all the love here once again! I actually felt stronger after reading the last reply last night. I do check his blood myself and because he is not eating right now my dose is quite low. The antinausea is called Cerenia and I have not run out. I haven't seen the antitstimulant work as of course he is not eating. I will try the cooked chicken and geled broth. With the gel chicken broth, do you just give it to kittie just like than or mix it in with food? Anyway, I start this day with a prayer and hope to see some small improvements in his eating. Talk soon. :YMHUG:
rhiannon and shadow (GA)
Member Since 2012
Re: Discouraged and sad...
Welcome.
first, let me tell you that the candle icon means kitty has crossed the bridge....we light a candle to light their way .
So it scares us to see that icon. You can go back to your first post and edit it.
I have a cat in remission and she often has me open several cans.
I recently tried some new foods and that suddenly she was eating again.
You might want to get some fortiflora.
It's a probiotic but even better, it's what they put on dry food to make it so addictive so it often helps get you kitty to eat
when you sprinkle it on the canned food.
You can do the curves yourself and share the info with your vet. They don't like it but you are trying to save money for when
you really need the vet's assistance.
As for dosing.
Would you set up a spreadsheet
If you need help, there are folks here who are great about helping. Someone set mine up for me.
With a spreadsheet, we can see how your kitty is doing and advise to help you find the right dose.
Again.. Welcome to the forum.
Welcome.
first, let me tell you that the candle icon means kitty has crossed the bridge....we light a candle to light their way .
So it scares us to see that icon. You can go back to your first post and edit it.
I have a cat in remission and she often has me open several cans.
I recently tried some new foods and that suddenly she was eating again.
You might want to get some fortiflora.
It's a probiotic but even better, it's what they put on dry food to make it so addictive so it often helps get you kitty to eat
when you sprinkle it on the canned food.
You can do the curves yourself and share the info with your vet. They don't like it but you are trying to save money for when
you really need the vet's assistance.
As for dosing.
Would you set up a spreadsheet
If you need help, there are folks here who are great about helping. Someone set mine up for me.
With a spreadsheet, we can see how your kitty is doing and advise to help you find the right dose.
Again.. Welcome to the forum.
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: Discouraged and sad...
I can set up a spredsheet for you. I will send you a private message so we can get started. Check at the top of the page: 1 new message. Click on that, reply to me and choose Submit.
I can set up a spredsheet for you. I will send you a private message so we can get started. Check at the top of the page: 1 new message. Click on that, reply to me and choose Submit.
RobinCot
Member Since 2013
Re: Discouraged and sad...
And now we will hold your hand, give you advice and strength and calm your fears as you begin your venture into all the knowledge and experience this board has to give you. You are in good hands. No need to fret.
Cerenia is really great for upset tummies so hopefully that works soon.
We welcome you with open arms. Remember we have been where you are and are now managing this disease for our felines AND doing it as economically as possible.
The best thing you could ever do for your sugarcat is to come here and let us help you with the sugar dance... and you have done that!
And now we will hold your hand, give you advice and strength and calm your fears as you begin your venture into all the knowledge and experience this board has to give you. You are in good hands. No need to fret.
Cerenia is really great for upset tummies so hopefully that works soon.
We welcome you with open arms. Remember we have been where you are and are now managing this disease for our felines AND doing it as economically as possible.
The best thing you could ever do for your sugarcat is to come here and let us help you with the sugar dance... and you have done that!
Re: Discouraged and sad...
I so feel strengthened by the love and support here. I am very happy to do the sugar dance with you all! dancing_cat
I ended up syringe feeding him, not a very good experience for him but I was able to get down about 10 mL first run. I am going to try again here shortly. He is still very much lethargic obviously still recovering from his latest crisis.
I so feel strengthened by the love and support here. I am very happy to do the sugar dance with you all! dancing_cat
I ended up syringe feeding him, not a very good experience for him but I was able to get down about 10 mL first run. I am going to try again here shortly. He is still very much lethargic obviously still recovering from his latest crisis.
Larry and Kitties
Member Since 2009
Re: Discouraged and sad...
It takes practice and time for both caretaker and kitty to successfully syringe feed. I have successfully syringe feed many of my kitties. Most for short times and a very few for years.
It takes practice and time for both caretaker and kitty to successfully syringe feed. I have successfully syringe feed many of my kitties. Most for short times and a very few for years.
JoyceOlive
Member Since 2014
Re: Discouraged and sad...
In answer to the gelled bone broth,you can freeze it in small freezer containers,enough for the week and thaw out in fridge.Then you can warm up ( to ungel it) and pour over canned food,they love to lap it up.Look up bone broth and how to make it on the net. Good luck !
In answer to the gelled bone broth,you can freeze it in small freezer containers,enough for the week and thaw out in fridge.Then you can warm up ( to ungel it) and pour over canned food,they love to lap it up.Look up bone broth and how to make it on the net. Good luck !
Lisa and Witn (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: Discouraged and sad...
I had to do that with my cat Callie also when she was sick. It was not easy and there were time where I think that I wore more of it than what she ate. But at least I knew she was getting food in her and that helped her recover.
corteza said:
I had to do that with my cat Callie also when she was sick. It was not easy and there were time where I think that I wore more of it than what she ate. But at least I knew she was getting food in her and that helped her recover.
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Re: Discouraged and sad...
The appy stimulant and the anti-nausea meds could make the world of difference within a few days (they did for Saoirse). When is he vomiting? Is it after fasting for several hours by any chance, and is the vomitus foamy white/clear fluid only? If yes to the previous 2 questions it may possibly be due to excess stomach acid. It might be a good idea to ask your vet about whether famotidine (acid blocker) might also help. There's a very good nausea symptom checker here and the FDMB pancreatitis primer is here. The IDEXX treatment protocol for pancreatitis is here and gives a comprehensive overview of the condition and the meds and techniques used for its treatment.
Hang in there, it does get better even if the pancreatitis test comes back positive. With the right meds and careful feeding, chronic pancreatitis is manageable. It's certainly not a reason to give up, and your vet is wrong if (s)he is moving you that way without even trying the treatments available. Saoirse had a very nasty pancreatitis flare-up a few months ago (nursed successfully at home with the aid of BJM's secondary monitoring tools - link in her signature - and with minimal trips to vets, since I share her spreadsheet with them and document her clinical signs and meds as well as her BG data). To my tremendous delight - and even greater relief! - Saoirse has just gone OTJ. Not only that, she acts and looks younger than she has in years since switching to the better food and getting the right meds and insulin in place. She still has her off days, but she's alive and is very happy and content 99% of the time. Considering she was initially given a diagnosis of "old lady - symptoms to be expected" by a previous vet, she's doing stonkingly well! :smile:
It shines out of your words how much you love your little fella. This is doable. It's scary at first (very) but it does get much better and we are all here to help you both as you find your way forward.
:YMHUG: cat_pet_icon
PS ... I really understand the feelings of having failed - I'm the one that fed my beloved girl the dry food that did this to her. The reasoning part of me accepts that I did it on the advice of vets and in good faith but emotionally I'm very angry that I didn't do better by my beloved girl. I've also got health problems myself and there have been times over the last few months when I've been disgusted with my frailties because they got in the way of Saoirse getting better faster. :sad: I am beyond grateful to the people here for helping me to keep some bit of perspective over the past months. (((FDMB)))
The appy stimulant and the anti-nausea meds could make the world of difference within a few days (they did for Saoirse). When is he vomiting? Is it after fasting for several hours by any chance, and is the vomitus foamy white/clear fluid only? If yes to the previous 2 questions it may possibly be due to excess stomach acid. It might be a good idea to ask your vet about whether famotidine (acid blocker) might also help. There's a very good nausea symptom checker here and the FDMB pancreatitis primer is here. The IDEXX treatment protocol for pancreatitis is here and gives a comprehensive overview of the condition and the meds and techniques used for its treatment.
Hang in there, it does get better even if the pancreatitis test comes back positive. With the right meds and careful feeding, chronic pancreatitis is manageable. It's certainly not a reason to give up, and your vet is wrong if (s)he is moving you that way without even trying the treatments available. Saoirse had a very nasty pancreatitis flare-up a few months ago (nursed successfully at home with the aid of BJM's secondary monitoring tools - link in her signature - and with minimal trips to vets, since I share her spreadsheet with them and document her clinical signs and meds as well as her BG data). To my tremendous delight - and even greater relief! - Saoirse has just gone OTJ. Not only that, she acts and looks younger than she has in years since switching to the better food and getting the right meds and insulin in place. She still has her off days, but she's alive and is very happy and content 99% of the time. Considering she was initially given a diagnosis of "old lady - symptoms to be expected" by a previous vet, she's doing stonkingly well! :smile:
It shines out of your words how much you love your little fella. This is doable. It's scary at first (very) but it does get much better and we are all here to help you both as you find your way forward.
:YMHUG: cat_pet_icon
PS ... I really understand the feelings of having failed - I'm the one that fed my beloved girl the dry food that did this to her. The reasoning part of me accepts that I did it on the advice of vets and in good faith but emotionally I'm very angry that I didn't do better by my beloved girl. I've also got health problems myself and there have been times over the last few months when I've been disgusted with my frailties because they got in the way of Saoirse getting better faster. :sad: I am beyond grateful to the people here for helping me to keep some bit of perspective over the past months. (((FDMB)))
Re: Discouraged and sad...
Wow! A lot of valuable info here. He started vomiting a few hours after eating his last meal. It was not the white stuff, but the color of the food he had eaten. He has not vomited yet today and I have syringed him a couple of times already. I will check the links you provided and BJM's tools if I can find it. Will get the test results probably tomorrow. Yes right now he is not enjoying life too much.
Wow! A lot of valuable info here. He started vomiting a few hours after eating his last meal. It was not the white stuff, but the color of the food he had eaten. He has not vomited yet today and I have syringed him a couple of times already. I will check the links you provided and BJM's tools if I can find it. Will get the test results probably tomorrow. Yes right now he is not enjoying life too much.
Re: Discouraged and sad...
Well just took a reading and he has shot up to 594 mg/dL or 33 mmol/L. Have syringed fed him and he is just growling at me and not wanting to be around me...this is sooooo hard! At least he is keeping his food down so far. I am not sure if I should give him his pain medication cause he always seems so out of it! He was taking Bupurion (not sure if I spelled it right).
Trying so hard today to not fall apart but when he reacts like he does he just does not seem like my kittie anymore. :YMSIGH:
Well just took a reading and he has shot up to 594 mg/dL or 33 mmol/L. Have syringed fed him and he is just growling at me and not wanting to be around me...this is sooooo hard! At least he is keeping his food down so far. I am not sure if I should give him his pain medication cause he always seems so out of it! He was taking Bupurion (not sure if I spelled it right).
Trying so hard today to not fall apart but when he reacts like he does he just does not seem like my kittie anymore. :YMSIGH:
rhiannon and shadow (GA)
Member Since 2012
Re: Discouraged and sad...
Pain meds can be difficult for cats.
Did they give you pre-filled syringes?
You can give him less.
My cat gets dysphoric so I give a lesser amount. Mine is currently on .01 bupe. ( buprenorphine)
Try giving a smaller amount.
I think many cats are real lightweights when it comes to pain meds. A little goes a long way.
Pain meds can be difficult for cats.
Did they give you pre-filled syringes?
You can give him less.
My cat gets dysphoric so I give a lesser amount. Mine is currently on .01 bupe. ( buprenorphine)
Try giving a smaller amount.
I think many cats are real lightweights when it comes to pain meds. A little goes a long way.
Re: Discouraged and sad...
Yes, they were prefilled syringes. I did give him 1/2 of it the other day. I am going to give him less tonight to get him through the night especially if he has a bladder infection. Strange, he really isn't going to the bathroom a lot, though he is not eating a lot or drinking either. I hope these antibiotics help him and things start to get better for him again, even if it just for a bit. Good night all!
Yes, they were prefilled syringes. I did give him 1/2 of it the other day. I am going to give him less tonight to get him through the night especially if he has a bladder infection. Strange, he really isn't going to the bathroom a lot, though he is not eating a lot or drinking either. I hope these antibiotics help him and things start to get better for him again, even if it just for a bit. Good night all!
Likameow
Member Since 2014
Re: Discouraged and sad...
A bladder infection will also make his sugars out a whack. It's hard to regulate with an infection on board so don't get too discouraged if your numbers are all over the place. Ben had a UTI when he was first diagnosed. It took 2 rounds of antibiotics to clear up (dang sugar in the urine is a great place to grow bugs). Good luck with your sugar baby.
A bladder infection will also make his sugars out a whack. It's hard to regulate with an infection on board so don't get too discouraged if your numbers are all over the place. Ben had a UTI when he was first diagnosed. It took 2 rounds of antibiotics to clear up (dang sugar in the urine is a great place to grow bugs). Good luck with your sugar baby.
Re: Discouraged and sad...
Well, I am not sure how long I will have Nelson.....I don’t know what to do?? Talking with the Vet this morning, she wants me to come in and learn how to give Nelson fluids under his skin. She thinks he could be dehydrated. She basically said to me that if I don’t do this that I would be very unfair to Nelson. As it is, he is on 4 different meds right now and insulin and being syringe fed. I don’t know what to do. I would like to see if things change over the weekend in hopes that this flare since last Saturday just needs some time. He is so miserable right now, but aren’t we ourselves when we are not well?
If I end his life am I doing it too soon without trying for longer? I am really struggling with this you have no idea. The vets keep telling me things are going to be rough and not smooth but I know that and I am willing to keep going. But this last bout he has had since Saturday, he just does not seem to be getting better ( he has pancreatitis Now as well)
I am so distraught and the thought of taking him in tomorrow to get poked some more is just more stress for Nelson but it might safe his life?? Crying....
Well, I am not sure how long I will have Nelson.....I don’t know what to do?? Talking with the Vet this morning, she wants me to come in and learn how to give Nelson fluids under his skin. She thinks he could be dehydrated. She basically said to me that if I don’t do this that I would be very unfair to Nelson. As it is, he is on 4 different meds right now and insulin and being syringe fed. I don’t know what to do. I would like to see if things change over the weekend in hopes that this flare since last Saturday just needs some time. He is so miserable right now, but aren’t we ourselves when we are not well?
If I end his life am I doing it too soon without trying for longer? I am really struggling with this you have no idea. The vets keep telling me things are going to be rough and not smooth but I know that and I am willing to keep going. But this last bout he has had since Saturday, he just does not seem to be getting better ( he has pancreatitis Now as well)
I am so distraught and the thought of taking him in tomorrow to get poked some more is just more stress for Nelson but it might safe his life?? Crying....
RobinCot
Member Since 2013
Re: Discouraged and sad...
Aw... I am so sorry.
Look, it looks like he has health issues that can be overcome or managed. It might seem dire right now but he could come through it all and give you many more years of love.
But it really is up to you because you have to do all the treatment and only you know what you can or cannot handle. We won't be able to advise you on that but we can hold your hand, cry with you and support whatever you decide to do.
Lots of people on this board give fluids. It sounds much more difficult than it is. This can also be very temporary. I only had to do it once for my very sick foster started eating the very next day.
I'm so sorry that you are crying. I'm crying with you.
Aw... I am so sorry.
Look, it looks like he has health issues that can be overcome or managed. It might seem dire right now but he could come through it all and give you many more years of love.
But it really is up to you because you have to do all the treatment and only you know what you can or cannot handle. We won't be able to advise you on that but we can hold your hand, cry with you and support whatever you decide to do.
Lots of people on this board give fluids. It sounds much more difficult than it is. This can also be very temporary. I only had to do it once for my very sick foster started eating the very next day.
I'm so sorry that you are crying. I'm crying with you.
BJM
Member Since 2010
Re: Discouraged and sad...
Fluids are given subcutaneously, just like insulin, so you already have the basic concept down.
Warm the bag to baby bottle temp before giving them.
Some folks find a 20 gauge syringe works better for them than the standard 18 gauge syringe.
Another trick is to put the bag under your arm like a bagpipe to push them in a tad faster.
It'll tend to depend on your cat. I had one that decided she wouldn't do fluids and had to let her go. She was 18 years old.
You may find it helpful to read over Feline CRF to see what kinds of options are possible.
Fluids are given subcutaneously, just like insulin, so you already have the basic concept down.
Warm the bag to baby bottle temp before giving them.
Some folks find a 20 gauge syringe works better for them than the standard 18 gauge syringe.
Another trick is to put the bag under your arm like a bagpipe to push them in a tad faster.
It'll tend to depend on your cat. I had one that decided she wouldn't do fluids and had to let her go. She was 18 years old.
You may find it helpful to read over Feline CRF to see what kinds of options are possible.
Re: Discouraged and sad...
Thank you. The thing is that the vet is basing this on assumption. He only vomited once yesterday and another vet saw him on Monday who did not say anything about being dehydrated. I will go tomorrow and let them give him the fluids and see what comes out of that meeting. He certainly seems to extremely uncomfortable even with pain meds. So very sad....
Thank you. The thing is that the vet is basing this on assumption. He only vomited once yesterday and another vet saw him on Monday who did not say anything about being dehydrated. I will go tomorrow and let them give him the fluids and see what comes out of that meeting. He certainly seems to extremely uncomfortable even with pain meds. So very sad....
rhiannon and shadow (GA)
Member Since 2012
Re: Discouraged and sad...
dehydration is common with fd cats....especially as they age.
Here is a great video to show you how to do it and how it's not as difficult as we think before we do it.
How to give fluids
Try to breathe.
Take it one day at a time.
I never thought I'd be able to give shots.... ( childhood phobia) and I've learned each step of the way how to do more and more.
Unfortunately, mine has lymphoma in her pylorus.... and I can't do anything about it. :YMSIGH:
Sending Hugs.
dehydration is common with fd cats....especially as they age.
Here is a great video to show you how to do it and how it's not as difficult as we think before we do it.
How to give fluids
Try to breathe.
Take it one day at a time.
I never thought I'd be able to give shots.... ( childhood phobia) and I've learned each step of the way how to do more and more.
Unfortunately, mine has lymphoma in her pylorus.... and I can't do anything about it. :YMSIGH:
Sending Hugs.
Tiger(GA) and Ruth
Member Since 2014
Re: Discouraged and sad...
You mentioned a bladder infection- is your vet treating this with antibiotics?
You mentioned a bladder infection- is your vet treating this with antibiotics?
Re: Discouraged and sad...
Well my vet gave me a very poor prognosis of 20-30% improvement if taken care of at home. That is not very high and certainly not a very good quality of life. It looks like I am going to have to make the decision here pretty quick...I just have such a hard time to think that this all is happening because of diabetes and in just a short time. I am not sure how I will handle this ...if only I could know that Nelson would forgive me and it would be the right thing to do? :YMSIGH:
Well my vet gave me a very poor prognosis of 20-30% improvement if taken care of at home. That is not very high and certainly not a very good quality of life. It looks like I am going to have to make the decision here pretty quick...I just have such a hard time to think that this all is happening because of diabetes and in just a short time. I am not sure how I will handle this ...if only I could know that Nelson would forgive me and it would be the right thing to do? :YMSIGH:
BJM
Member Since 2010
Re: Discouraged and sad...
Your vet may not have experience with a dedicated owner. There are a whole host of supportive measures that can help a cat with renal disease, from phosphorus binders to subcutaneous fluids to slippery elm bark for GI upset.
Have you considered a second opinion?
You will know when it is time.
And ... better a day too soon, than a day too late.
Your vet may not have experience with a dedicated owner. There are a whole host of supportive measures that can help a cat with renal disease, from phosphorus binders to subcutaneous fluids to slippery elm bark for GI upset.
Have you considered a second opinion?
You will know when it is time.
And ... better a day too soon, than a day too late.
Re: Discouraged and sad...but still hopeful
I have to say that there has been no diagnosis about his kidneys. This is speculation on the vet's part that he is even dehydrated. He vomited once yesterday at noon. He has been holding his food down that I have been syringing him with. I have done the pull skin test and it is still elastic. I think he is weak because yes he has not had much food and probably does have a urinary tract infection. I do not want to put him through another poke. This has been a rollarcoaster the last few days. I have been dedicated to him since he was diagnosed and sure it has been awful at times and scary and heart aching, but I will continue to take care of him at home. Of course, if he truly vomits continuously, or gets worse than I will look at the options again. I think the vet has no idea what I am doing at home for him or any of us here who are dedicated to helping. Yes, there is chance that we can't solve the problem but I think we know when we can't do anymore or need outside help. I will continue him on the meds, and syring feed him until he gets more energy and we will take it from there. Wow, sorry about rambling on.....
On another note, does anyone know about how to make syringe feeding a bit more pleasant and how to transition over again to own feeds? The food I have him on is sensitivity by medi-cal geared more towards the pancreas and supposedly he should stay on it. He is not interested in it at all outside being forced to eat it. Anyone know of another bland type canned food that might be more appealing?
I want to send bit hugs out to everyone on this forum...we are all great people here who truely care and want to help! :YMHUG:
I have to say that there has been no diagnosis about his kidneys. This is speculation on the vet's part that he is even dehydrated. He vomited once yesterday at noon. He has been holding his food down that I have been syringing him with. I have done the pull skin test and it is still elastic. I think he is weak because yes he has not had much food and probably does have a urinary tract infection. I do not want to put him through another poke. This has been a rollarcoaster the last few days. I have been dedicated to him since he was diagnosed and sure it has been awful at times and scary and heart aching, but I will continue to take care of him at home. Of course, if he truly vomits continuously, or gets worse than I will look at the options again. I think the vet has no idea what I am doing at home for him or any of us here who are dedicated to helping. Yes, there is chance that we can't solve the problem but I think we know when we can't do anymore or need outside help. I will continue him on the meds, and syring feed him until he gets more energy and we will take it from there. Wow, sorry about rambling on.....
On another note, does anyone know about how to make syringe feeding a bit more pleasant and how to transition over again to own feeds? The food I have him on is sensitivity by medi-cal geared more towards the pancreas and supposedly he should stay on it. He is not interested in it at all outside being forced to eat it. Anyone know of another bland type canned food that might be more appealing?
I want to send bit hugs out to everyone on this forum...we are all great people here who truely care and want to help! :YMHUG:
BJM
Member Since 2010
Re: Discouraged and sad...
You might try adding plain baby food meat with nothing else added to the prescribed food.
If he is up at all for a little play, that can stimulate some eating.
A pinch of catnip can help create munchies.
Warming the food to a baby bottle temp may help it smell better to him.
A sprinkle of Parmesan cheese.
Crumbles of freeze dried shrimp or chicken (ex Pure Bites)
You might try adding plain baby food meat with nothing else added to the prescribed food.
If he is up at all for a little play, that can stimulate some eating.
A pinch of catnip can help create munchies.
Warming the food to a baby bottle temp may help it smell better to him.
A sprinkle of Parmesan cheese.
Crumbles of freeze dried shrimp or chicken (ex Pure Bites)
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Re: Discouraged and sad...
For a short time you could try feeding Nelson poached chicken breast and a mix of water and the broth from the poached chicken. If you mince up the chicken finely and give lots of broth and water with it, it will be easy to eat and digest and the broth/water will help him to stay hydrated. If you need to syringe feed, you could blitz the mixture in a blender or food processor to make a soupy mix. During a pancreatitis flare, it can help a lot to feed tiny amounts very frequently. Even if an appy stimulant makes kitty want to eat more, keeping the meals tiny puts less strain on the pancreas. Initially I fed Saoirse 8g minced chicken with 12ml of broth and 12ml of water every hour, 24/7. Timed feeders are a must have - caregivers need sleep, too. While the chicken is not a complete food (and also not balanced for phosphorous), it did help to keep Saoirse eating for a few weeks and after a lot of trial and error I managed to migrate her onto low carb, species-appropriate commercial foods.
Look at BJ's signature link for secondary monitoring tools. I can't recommend them highly enough. I found secondary monitoring to be invaluable in helping Saoirse through the last number of months - quadruply so when she was going through the pancreatitis flare.
At the height of Saoirse's flare, she was incredibly lethargic, depressed and miserable. Her regimen at one stage was:
- insulin twice a day.
- regular BG testing.
- ProKolin paste for diarrhoea - twice a day (smeared onto her cheeks and paws sometimes).
- Cyproheptadine for appetite - every 8-12 hours (c. 1/8 tablet for her 9½lbs weight - any more made her sedated).
- Ondansetron for nausea - twice a day.
- Famotidine for excess stomach acid - as needed - max twice a day.
- Stomorgyl antibiotic for diarrhoea - 2 tablets twice a day.
- Vitamin B12 - weekly injection at vet's.
Now she's insulin-free, and has maintenance doses of ondansetron to help with the residual nausea. And she's well and happy. Big change! :smile:
I won't lie to you: it's tough going to give lots of meds and to poke and prod our little ones - both for cat and caregiver - but it is doable. For me the choice between us having to go through the discomfort of the treatment versus losing Saoirse was a no-brainer. I had to try everything I could to help her. And every bit of our mutual stress and discomfort was worth it. My beloved girl is still here, her overall health is much, much better than it has been in years; and she now has a better quality of life than before she got so sick. (((Saoirse)))
One of the most significant things I have discovered in the past few months is that cats have ASTOUNDING powers of recovery. They can make very significant improvements relatively quickly even if they take a bit of time to return to full wellness. I'd recommend talking to your vet about B12 supplementation. That can really give a kitty's system a boost. It made a HUGE difference to Saoirse's progress in only a couple of weeks.
For a short time you could try feeding Nelson poached chicken breast and a mix of water and the broth from the poached chicken. If you mince up the chicken finely and give lots of broth and water with it, it will be easy to eat and digest and the broth/water will help him to stay hydrated. If you need to syringe feed, you could blitz the mixture in a blender or food processor to make a soupy mix. During a pancreatitis flare, it can help a lot to feed tiny amounts very frequently. Even if an appy stimulant makes kitty want to eat more, keeping the meals tiny puts less strain on the pancreas. Initially I fed Saoirse 8g minced chicken with 12ml of broth and 12ml of water every hour, 24/7. Timed feeders are a must have - caregivers need sleep, too. While the chicken is not a complete food (and also not balanced for phosphorous), it did help to keep Saoirse eating for a few weeks and after a lot of trial and error I managed to migrate her onto low carb, species-appropriate commercial foods.
Look at BJ's signature link for secondary monitoring tools. I can't recommend them highly enough. I found secondary monitoring to be invaluable in helping Saoirse through the last number of months - quadruply so when she was going through the pancreatitis flare.
At the height of Saoirse's flare, she was incredibly lethargic, depressed and miserable. Her regimen at one stage was:
- insulin twice a day.
- regular BG testing.
- ProKolin paste for diarrhoea - twice a day (smeared onto her cheeks and paws sometimes).
- Cyproheptadine for appetite - every 8-12 hours (c. 1/8 tablet for her 9½lbs weight - any more made her sedated).
- Ondansetron for nausea - twice a day.
- Famotidine for excess stomach acid - as needed - max twice a day.
- Stomorgyl antibiotic for diarrhoea - 2 tablets twice a day.
- Vitamin B12 - weekly injection at vet's.
Now she's insulin-free, and has maintenance doses of ondansetron to help with the residual nausea. And she's well and happy. Big change! :smile:
I won't lie to you: it's tough going to give lots of meds and to poke and prod our little ones - both for cat and caregiver - but it is doable. For me the choice between us having to go through the discomfort of the treatment versus losing Saoirse was a no-brainer. I had to try everything I could to help her. And every bit of our mutual stress and discomfort was worth it. My beloved girl is still here, her overall health is much, much better than it has been in years; and she now has a better quality of life than before she got so sick. (((Saoirse)))
One of the most significant things I have discovered in the past few months is that cats have ASTOUNDING powers of recovery. They can make very significant improvements relatively quickly even if they take a bit of time to return to full wellness. I'd recommend talking to your vet about B12 supplementation. That can really give a kitty's system a boost. It made a HUGE difference to Saoirse's progress in only a couple of weeks.
rhiannon and shadow (GA)
Member Since 2012
Re: Discouraged and sad...
The liver shake has had a lot of success .
The liver shake has had a lot of success .
Re: Discouraged and sad...; Latest
The latest I thought I would share with you all as I am really upset about this. This morning the vet told me that if I did not bring in my cat today, I was being inhumane and they might have to report me to the humane society. Also, they would not treat but euthanize him as well. I still can't believe that was said, actually it is in writing. Alls I want to do is get his meds to get him through the weekend if he needs them. He has not vomitted since Wednesday and even showed some interest in food, though I still had to syringe feed him. He is really growly and stressed out today with the syringe feed. I wish I could something different to get the food in. I am also giving him a sugar/water/salt solution to replenish water intake. I have kept the copy of the letter and really think that this was uncalled for. The vet hasn't even seen my cat and is making assumptions. Crazy isn't it. I am trying to keep it together as I know that I am doing nothing but loving and caring from my cat. Yes, I can't afford to take him in for a week in the hospital but that doesn't mean I am inhumane! Anyway, just had to share. Thanks for listening.
The latest I thought I would share with you all as I am really upset about this. This morning the vet told me that if I did not bring in my cat today, I was being inhumane and they might have to report me to the humane society. Also, they would not treat but euthanize him as well. I still can't believe that was said, actually it is in writing. Alls I want to do is get his meds to get him through the weekend if he needs them. He has not vomitted since Wednesday and even showed some interest in food, though I still had to syringe feed him. He is really growly and stressed out today with the syringe feed. I wish I could something different to get the food in. I am also giving him a sugar/water/salt solution to replenish water intake. I have kept the copy of the letter and really think that this was uncalled for. The vet hasn't even seen my cat and is making assumptions. Crazy isn't it. I am trying to keep it together as I know that I am doing nothing but loving and caring from my cat. Yes, I can't afford to take him in for a week in the hospital but that doesn't mean I am inhumane! Anyway, just had to share. Thanks for listening.
BJM
Member Since 2010
Re: Discouraged and sad...
You might lay out your entire home schedule of management, send it back, and politely suggest where they can shove it.
You are providing care. That is not neglect.
And check around town for some other vet offices to see if there is one that does do payment plans. Check this post on financial aid. Or check into Care Credit.
You might lay out your entire home schedule of management, send it back, and politely suggest where they can shove it.
You are providing care. That is not neglect.
And check around town for some other vet offices to see if there is one that does do payment plans. Check this post on financial aid. Or check into Care Credit.
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Re: Discouraged and sad...
Get.
A.
New.
Vet.
Get.
A.
New.
Vet.
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Re: Discouraged and sad...
Perhaps use a syringe to give a little extra water between feeds (across the mouth to prevent choking! - messy sometimes, but effective). I'm not so sure about giving a sugar/salt solution to a cat. Perhaps other members might be able to advise further.
And start using BJ's secondary monitoring tools. Our vets were very happy with the results that I got for Saoirse when using the tools. They were delighted that I was able to successfully nurse her at home. Indeed, they consider home nursing to be infinitely preferable to hospitalisation whenever it's possible to do so safely - especially when the patients are feline because they get so stressed when they're out of their home territory. They are of the opinion that effective home nursing can significantly speed recovery.
We just lurve our vetty beans.
(We haven't always been this blessed.)
Perhaps use a syringe to give a little extra water between feeds (across the mouth to prevent choking! - messy sometimes, but effective). I'm not so sure about giving a sugar/salt solution to a cat. Perhaps other members might be able to advise further.
And start using BJ's secondary monitoring tools. Our vets were very happy with the results that I got for Saoirse when using the tools. They were delighted that I was able to successfully nurse her at home. Indeed, they consider home nursing to be infinitely preferable to hospitalisation whenever it's possible to do so safely - especially when the patients are feline because they get so stressed when they're out of their home territory. They are of the opinion that effective home nursing can significantly speed recovery.
We just lurve our vetty beans.
(We haven't always been this blessed.)crazycatlady
Member Since 2013
Re: Discouraged and sad...
Hi,
I have not posted much here but I get alot of helpfull information. My precious baby just survived acute pancreatitis and the stress was immense.
I can't believe that a Vet would send that kind of letter.
With all of the animal abuse out there my heart pours out to you on all that you are doing. ONLY you will know when it is time.
keep you head high and know everyone here is with you!
Hi,
I have not posted much here but I get alot of helpfull information. My precious baby just survived acute pancreatitis and the stress was immense.
I can't believe that a Vet would send that kind of letter.
With all of the animal abuse out there my heart pours out to you on all that you are doing. ONLY you will know when it is time.
keep you head high and know everyone here is with you!
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Re: Discouraged and sad...
Corteza,
From your opening post, you say that you picked up your kitty's meds on 30 November. Did you start administering them then, and have you given all the doses prescribed? It would help if you could post details of the medications and dosages that you are administering, especially for the appetite stimulant and anti-nausea treatment.
Corteza,
From your opening post, you say that you picked up your kitty's meds on 30 November. Did you start administering them then, and have you given all the doses prescribed? It would help if you could post details of the medications and dosages that you are administering, especially for the appetite stimulant and anti-nausea treatment.
Re: Discouraged and sad...
Antibiotics for bladder infection: Aventi Clav 50/12.5 mg twice a day
Cerenia 16 mg 1/2 tab one a day
Buprenorphine twice a day 0.18 ml. I think this is too much of a dose.
Hope this clarifies things. I am also trying to give him lantus insulin by that is up and down because of his sugars.
Antibiotics for bladder infection: Aventi Clav 50/12.5 mg twice a day
Cerenia 16 mg 1/2 tab one a day
Buprenorphine twice a day 0.18 ml. I think this is too much of a dose.
Hope this clarifies things. I am also trying to give him lantus insulin by that is up and down because of his sugars.
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Re: Discouraged and sad...
That's really helpful information, Corteza, and thank you for posting it.
You're missing a vital treatment - an appetite stimulant.
I would go back to your current vet asap (or another vet if your current vets aren't willing to help) and ask them to prescribe an appetite stimulant as soon as possible (unless there is some medical reason why one might be contraindicated). There are two in general use: mirtazapine and cyproheptadine. Mirtazapine is an anti-depressant medication and it can cause serotonin syndrome, a potentially life-threatening condition. Cyproheptadine is an antihistamine. Side effects include sedation and possibility of depressed mood if dose is too high (it's is a serotonin antagonist). My preference for Saoirse's treatment was cyproheptadine - it's gentler in action than mirtazapine and I was not happy with the side effect profile of mirtazapine either. Saoirse's weight fluctuates around the 9½lb mark and 1/8 of a 4g tablet (and sometimes less) of cypro was sufficient to keep her appetite going for 8-12 hours. Note that cypro tends to potentiate the sedating effects of buprenorphine. I'd suggest speaking further with your vet about the bupe dosage, too.
If the appetite stimulant is in play, it may make assist feeding unnecessary. If the appetite becomes steady, so does the feeding schedule and that will also help with administration of insulin.
That's really helpful information, Corteza, and thank you for posting it.
You're missing a vital treatment - an appetite stimulant.
I would go back to your current vet asap (or another vet if your current vets aren't willing to help) and ask them to prescribe an appetite stimulant as soon as possible (unless there is some medical reason why one might be contraindicated). There are two in general use: mirtazapine and cyproheptadine. Mirtazapine is an anti-depressant medication and it can cause serotonin syndrome, a potentially life-threatening condition. Cyproheptadine is an antihistamine. Side effects include sedation and possibility of depressed mood if dose is too high (it's is a serotonin antagonist). My preference for Saoirse's treatment was cyproheptadine - it's gentler in action than mirtazapine and I was not happy with the side effect profile of mirtazapine either. Saoirse's weight fluctuates around the 9½lb mark and 1/8 of a 4g tablet (and sometimes less) of cypro was sufficient to keep her appetite going for 8-12 hours. Note that cypro tends to potentiate the sedating effects of buprenorphine. I'd suggest speaking further with your vet about the bupe dosage, too.
If the appetite stimulant is in play, it may make assist feeding unnecessary. If the appetite becomes steady, so does the feeding schedule and that will also help with administration of insulin.
- Status