Different types of insulin?

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Lisa and Smoky

Lisa and Smoky

Member Since 2016
Does anyone know the major differences between different types of insulin? Smoky is taking Vetsulin and even though his BG numbers seem to be alright for now it seems to give him the blahs.
 
All insulins can sometimes cause "the blahs", especially at first since we're forcing their blood glucose to change from where they've gotten used to living at, but since Vetsulin is considered a "hard hitting" insulin, it can make it worse since it can take them low very quickly and then wear off before the next shot time
 
If the Vetsulin blues persist a change to a gentler-acting insulin with a smoother action profile may help. Saoirse felt lousy on Vetsulin but mood improved very with her switch to Lantus. Some cats here get on better with Levemir.

If you were to plot BG values on a graph Vetsulin/Caninsulin would typically produce a 'cup' shape whereas the data for a well-regulated cat on Lantus would produce more of a 'saucer' shape because its BG-lowering action at peak period of effect doesn't tend to be as harsh or steep as the former, plus it is longer-lasting so the cat's BG doesn't tend to climb as high at the end of the cycle (bounces excepted).

As I suggested in one of your other threads, Lisa, make brief notes in Smoky's spreadsheet each day about Smoky's mood and behaviour. Subtle daily changes - whether improvements or disimprovements - can be nigh on impossible to hold in one's head or might be missed altogether. Keeping the daily journal will be really helpful to both you and your vet in your work to choose the optimum treatments for Smoky.

As you continue to monitor, watch for any signs that Smoky might start trying to avoid his Vetsulin injections; that can be a good indicator that it is really disagreeing with him and you should let your vet know straight away should such behaviours emerge. (Hopefully they won't!)

In the meantime be sure to let your vet know about the mood/energy dips. BG numbers are only part of the story. Close attention to clinical signs is of even more importance. After all, what we're after here is a happy cat, not a pretty spreadsheet. ;)


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
If the Vetsulin blues persist a change to a gentler-acting insulin with a smoother action profile may help. Saoirse felt lousy on Vetsulin but mood improved very with her switch to Lantus. Some cats here get on better with Levemir.

If you were to plot BG values on a graph Vetsulin/Caninsulin would typically produce a 'cup' shape whereas the data for a well-regulated cat on Lantus would produce more of a 'saucer' shape because its BG-lowering action at peak period of effect doesn't tend to be as harsh or steep as the former, plus it is longer-lasting so the cat's BG doesn't tend to climb as high at the end of the cycle (bounces excepted).

As I suggested in one of your other threads, Lisa, make brief notes in Smoky's spreadsheet each day about Smoky's mood and behaviour. Subtle daily changes - whether improvements or disimprovements - can be nigh on impossible to hold in one's head or might be missed altogether. Keeping the daily journal will be really helpful to both you and your vet in your work to choose the optimum treatments for Smoky.

As you continue to monitor, watch for any signs that Smoky might start trying to avoid his Vetsulin injections; that can be a good indicator that it is really disagreeing with him and you should let your vet know straight away should such behaviours emerge. (Hopefully they won't!)

In the meantime be sure to let your vet know about the mood/energy dips. BG numbers are only part of the story. Close attention to clinical signs is of even more importance. After all, what we're after here is a happy cat, not a pretty spreadsheet. ;)


Mogs
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I started a journal but have to transfer thoughts into the SS. Smoky was on bed cuddling with me all night and a little bit this morning. He got a little stressed this morning before his test. I was frustrated because it took me three times to get a blood sample. He usually bleeds pretty easily. So of course smoky picked up on that.
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
Smoky is taking Vetsulin and even though his BG numbers seem to be alright for now it seems to give him the blahs.
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Hi Lisa,
Smoky's morning preshot numbers seem to be creeping up a bit.
Are you able to get a few more mid-cycle tests? It would be good to have more info about what's going on during the cycle. :)

Eliz
 
I tested smoky at +5 after am shooting and his BG dropped down to 167. His PM pre test is in another 1.5 hours. I hope his numbers are better.
 
When's the next time you have a couple days off that you could be sure to get a couple of tests in on both cycles and test more often if needed?

Vetsulin is a U40 insulin so unless you have U40 syringes with half unit markings, you might want to consider getting some U100 and using a conversion chart so you can do doses in between .5 and 1U
 
I have Sunday and Monday off each week. The neighbor lady gave me six of them u100 with half markings on them. Will have to I figure out the conversion chart. Smoky just had his PMPS if you want to look at his SS. He is eating now and in next 10 to 15 minutes I'll be doing his pm shooting.
 
If you feel 1 is too much and.5 not enough, you could cut the difference and try.75 for a few cycles and see what happens. You are getting decent results so far for just starting to really monitor it. You're doing a really good job some days are just like that when you have to poke multiple times to get enough. I often have that problem in the morning because my cat sits in the open window at night with the cold breeze chilling her ears.
 
When you can be home to watch, you might want to try .6 and see if you can get him down just a little more

The .5 is dropping him about 50% from his Pre-shots and that's generally what we expect from Vetsulin
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
I have Sunday and Monday off each week. The neighbor lady gave me six of them u100 with half markings on them. Will have to I figure out the conversion chart. Smoky just had his PMPS if you want to look at his SS. He is eating now and in next 10 to 15 minutes I'll be doing his pm shooting.
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Oh see? You are almost in the yellows preshot again. Since you don't really test at night I'd be a bit conservative and either do.5 or what I call a FAT.5.... Just barely over the line of.5.

If it were day you could test or if you got up and tested tonight around +4 I'd say give.75 a go.
 
JanetNJ said:
Oh see? You are almost in the yellows preshot again. Since you don't really test at night I'd be a bit conservative and either do.5 or what I call a FAT.5.... Just barely over the line of.5.

If it were day you could test or if you got up and tested tonight around +4 I'd say give.75 a go.
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Thanks for the encouragement.:DIt wld be really hard for me to do a +4 after pm shooting. I would end up with 5 hrs of sleep and probably be to tired or frustrated to test him in the morning. I talked to his vet who thinks he might need a different insulin.
 
JanetNJ said:
If you feel 1 is too much and.5 not enough, you could cut the difference and try.75 for a few cycles and see what happens. You are getting decent results so far for just starting to really monitor it. You're doing a really good job some days are just like that when you have to poke multiple times to get enough. I often have that problem in the morning because my cat sits in the open window at night with the cold breeze chilling her ears.
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I test smokys paw pads which I think might hurt more than ear pricks. He is going for follow up appt on Sept 27 with his vet who will show me how to do ear pricks. Thanks for the encouragement, I'm still really nervous about testing him.:facepalm:
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
I test smokys paw pads which I think might hurt more than ear pricks. He is going for follow up appt on Sept 27 with his vet who will show me how to do ear pricks. Thanks for the encouragement, I'm still really nervous about testing him.:facepalm:
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Ear pricks are really easy. My vet said I had to knick the vein which I quickly learned was NOT true.... That that just hurts them more. A small poke to the very outer edge (the sweet spot) is where most of us test. Even when I poke all the way through my cat doesn't usually even react. Very few nerve endings there.
 
Chris & China said:
That's good news that your vet might be willing to change insulins! Vetsulin just doesn't have a very good track record with cats (it's better for dogs)

Lantus, Levemir and ProZinc are the better insulins for cats
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With my income, Lantis is much too expensive, my vet usually starts them on that. He suggested one of the other two you had mentioned.
 
JanetNJ said:
Ear pricks are really easy. My vet said I had to knick the vein which I quickly learned was NOT true.... That that just hurts them more. A small poke to the very outer edge (the sweet spot) is where most of us test. Even when I poke all the way through my cat doesn't usually even react. Very few nerve endings there.
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How do you keep the blood from pooling in the hair?
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
Yep, my old vet told me the same thing. The new vet seems to be more knowledgeable about home testing and techniques to use. My old vet said I don't need to home test and just come to the office once a week for testing. I'm way more proactive than that!
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Awesome! I regret not home testing the first two months. It feels like time wasted to me.
My vet didn't really encourage it... She was like "some people home test, most don't... So you probably won't want to". At the time giving shots was daunting enough.... But knowing what I know now I wish she had been more encouraging about it.

I didn't think vetsulin was working for me at first, and asked my vet if I could switch. She told me to stick it out a bit longer and tweak the dosage.... then like a light switch my cat did awesome! I credit her food for a lot of the positive changes I saw.
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
How do you keep the blood from pooling in the hair?
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Only a tiny drop comes out, and I haven't had that problem often.... Only every so often. When it happens I just do a second poke in the same spot. . But if your cat had long hair on the ears you could put a thin coat of ointment on the ears (vaseline or neosporin) to keep the hair from absorbing the drop.
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
With my income, Lantis is much too expensive, my vet usually starts them on that
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That's why most of us are buying our Lantus from Canada now! All you need is a script!!

All the info on where we're all buying from is in this "Insulin from Canadian Pharmacies" thread

Levemir is about the same price as Lantus....and so is ProZinc because although it might be cheaper per vial, it's a U40 insulin so a 10ml vial is only 400 units, where a 10ml vial of Lantus or Levemir is 1000 units

The pens (lantus or levemir) are the best buy though....each pen is 300 units (so a box is 1500 total) and you can use every last drop. With the vials, you usually end up throwing over half of it away when the insulin poops out
 
JanetNJ said:
Awesome! I regret not home testing the first two months. It feels like time wasted to me.
My vet didn't really encourage it... She was like "some people home test, most don't... So you probably won't want to". At the time giving shots was daunting enough.... But knowing what I know now I wish she had been more encouraging about it.

I didn't think vetsulin was working for me at first, and asked my vet if I could switch. She told me to stick it out a bit longer and tweak the dosage.... then like a light switch my cat did awesome! I credit her food for a lot of the positive changes I saw.
Click to expand...
My vet said that some cats metabolise vetsulin very quickly which can cause BG swings. I emailed him smokys spreadsheet even though I don't have much data on it yet. He is going by the numbers on it which is why he thinks a slower acting insulin might work better for my kitty.
 
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Chris & China said:
That's why most of us are buying our Lantus from Canada now! All you need is a script!!

All the info on where we're all buying from is in this "Insulin from Canadian Pharmacies" thread

Levemir is about the same price as Lantus....and so is ProZinc because although it might be cheaper per vial, it's a U40 insulin so a 10ml vial is only 400 units, where a 10ml vial of Lantus or Levemir is 1000 units

The pens (lantus or levemir) are the best buy though....each pen is 300 units (so a box is 1500 total) and you can use every last drop. With the vials, you usually end up throwing over half of it away when the insulin poops out
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Thanks for the info! I have always thought buying medical supplies or medicine from Canada was risky or cost a lot for shipping . I was just thinking that with Smoky on such a low dosage and all, I will end up throwing out half of the vial of vetsulin I have now.
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
My vet said that some cats metabolise vetsulin very quickly which can cause BG swings. I emailed him smokys spreadsheet even though I don't have much data on it yet. He is going by the numbers on it which is why he thinks a slower acting might work better for my kitty.
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I found the more regulated she got, and as the preshot started to decline, the longer it lasted. I started with about 6-8 hours of lasting to about 10+ hours with less of a steep curve. If your vet feels a switch is in order though then that's an option you should consider.
 
Smoky is getting more bloodwork done in another 4 days, having him checked for pancreatitis and B12 deficiency. He barely ate for two weeks and went from 14 pounds down to 8.5 He wants to check him for liver problems. He had bloodwork done to check liver enzymes and the yellow tinge disappeared. We had to feed him every 3 hrs for two weeks, a teaspoon of canned food at a time.
 
JanetNJ said:
I found the more regulated she got, and as the preshot started to decline, the longer it lasted. I started with about 6-8 hours of lasting to about 10+ hours with less of a steep curve. If your vet feels a switch is in order though then that's an option you should consider.
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Smoky has only been on vetsulin since Sept 6th so his vet may hold off on any changes just yet. He may want smoky to gain more weight first.
 
Getting his blood glucose under control will help with his weight

Without insulin, no matter how much food they eat, they're still literally starving to death...Think of insulin as a "key" and on every cell in the body there's a "lock"...without the key, no matter how much they eat, the glucose from the food can't get in so the glucose stays in the bloodstream (and you get high blood glucose numbers!)
 
That's why I test smokys urine once in a while for ketones, to see how much glucose has spilled into it. My vet wanted to keep smoky on vetsulin for a month before switching him to another insulin.
 
for what its worth....we started with vetsulin and my normally happy and bright boy was so depressed. I changed to pro zinc and he came back! BUT the pro zinc did not last long enough in his system.... If I could do it over I would have started with lantus.
:bighug:
 
jayla-n-Drevon said:
for what its worth....we started with vetsulin and my normally happy and bright boy was so depressed. I changed to pro zinc and he came back! BUT the pro zinc did not last long enough in his system.... If I could do it over I would have started with lantus.
:bighug:
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Smoky was the same way, bright and chipper and active. Now he seems down and out and sleeps a lot. I don't think the vetsulin is working that long in his system either. He has already reached the lowest numbers by +5 after his shot.
 
His vet wants to keep him on the vetsulin for at least a month before switching to another insulin. He is 11 and has other issues, urinary and allergies. Anyone who uses vetsulin have any ideas?
 
I'd start a new post with a subject line like "Using Vetsulin and need some help"

We have a few people here using it now and several more that have used it in the past.

Just remember to put the link to this post into the body of your next one so people can easily go back and see what's been going on
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
His vet wants to keep him on the vetsulin for at least a month before switching to another insulin. He is 11 and has other issues, urinary and allergies. Anyone who uses vetsulin have any ideas?
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It's only been two weeks.... It takes time to get regulated.... You are doing a great job. I actually live vetsulin for my cat. I found the numbers to be very predictable once I had lots of information. My biggest suggestion at the moment is keep the dose the same for now, and this sun and mon when your home test as often as you can.


The biggest switch for my cat was when I went from feeding just ff classic to half ff and half young again zero carb. After just a week or two on the new food it was amazing. (Check out my spreadsheet and see.). Ff is about 6% carb while Yaz is less than 1%. Once there were no food spikes to work against her numbers were so predictable.
 
I wouldn't mind trying the YA food but it has chicken and brewers rice in it. Smoky is allergic to chicken and grains including any kind of rice. It's very frustrating trying to find him food between his urinary isuues, allergies, and now diabetes:banghead:
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
I wouldn't mind trying the YA food but it has chicken and brewers rice in it. Smoky is allergic to chicken and grains including any kind of rice. It's very frustrating trying to find him food between his urinary isuues, allergies, and now diabetes:banghead:
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Ah yeah with allergies that wouldn't work.
 
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