Different AM/PM doses

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Grayson & Lu

Grayson & Lu

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Good morning all...

I've seen several of you say you do different doses in the am/pm. It didn't make much sense to me initially, but I'm wondering if that might be the solution for my long/short cycles.

I still don't have enough stats (or knowledge) to go there (and still don't have my SS transfered), but since it's on my mind, I thought I'd pick your brains for insight. If you are varying your doses, please share your reasoning, how much you vary and how long you've been doing it.

As I've noted before, Grayson SIPS his PZI... .5u to 1.0u. His BG range goes from upper 400s to lo- to mid- 100s. 67 was his lowest - once. Sometimes his cycles are 10-12 hours; other times as much as 20-22 hours before he breaks 250 (my shooting threshold).

Thoughts?

Lu-Ann
 
Getting a lot of data helps determine what works as ECID. Perhaps if you got your spreadsheet up and running it would help others see things you might not. I know that's the case for me a lot of times. "Can't see the forest because of the trees" kind of deal. ohmygod_smile
 
Lu,

How can we help you get your spreadsheet up? I have helped lots of people do it - can I help you?

It is much easier and safer for us to advise you when we can see actual numbers and how much insulin has affected those numbers.

One of the best things about PZI is its adaptability. It is possible to shoot earlier at one preshot and later at another, or a little more insulin at one and less at another. But you want to have quite a bit of data before trying either. It isn't a common practice, just something considered when the regular schedule is clearly not working.
 
Hi Lu,

Without being able to see a spreadsheet there is no way for us to see the patterns or how the insulin is working for Grayson on a daily basis.

Let Sue help you set up your spreadsheet, she is our resident spreadsheet expert and has helped most of us set up ours.

If you are refering to a sliding scale those are designed for each individual cat ECID, every cat's bg's are different and their insulin needs are different so the scale is based on their bg history.

Robin
 
I know - all I need to do is update the last weeks numbers and transfer the spreadsheet from excel to google docs. I started to do that the other night, then trying to put Grayson's birthday in the googledocs instead of mine... and being told I was "too young" to be accessing an account, kinda tripped me up! :smile: It's just a matter of TAKING the time to do it.

AM kitty chores and general things (clearly the housekeeper is on strike - wait, there ISN'T a housekeeper!) sometimes get in the way, and my ability to chase squirrels is one of my biggest faults. I PROMISE I'll get it up this weekend!

In the meantime, I still would welcome the reasoning behind varying doses.

Thanks,

Squirrel Chaser Lu
 
In general terms, if a cat consistently has a long cycle in the day (for whatever reason) and is low at pmps, but consistently higher at amps, then a bean could shoot at +14 at night and +10 in the morning. But as Robin and I have suggested, only after lots of data that suggests this is indeed a consistent pattern. Henry and Angela have done this for awhile. Henry has other issues and has been a kitty full of surprises, but he has been generally regulated and the 14/10 schedule worked for him.

Additionally, if a kitty has a consistent pattern of low numbers overnight and higher numbers during the day like Doug and Libby's Hershey, one of the things they might look at is to shoot less at pmps and more at amps. But again, only after they have seen a consistent pattern.

We also have kitties on a sliding scale as Robin mentioned. She is great at putting these together for an individual cat, based on his numbers over a period of time. Here again, data rules. Some cats do best with a dose held for several days; some react well to more frequent switches in dose. You want to know which type you kitty is before you consider a sliding scale.

PS Not an Excel person, but be sure you make the google doc available to anyone with the url and publish it to the web. That way, anyone here can access it without downloading it each time.
 
The basic reasoning about varying doses is, if 1 unit gets a good responce (gentle smile curve with a 50% to 65% drop) on a bg of 250 then it probably isn't enough insulin on a bg of 450 and you won't get the same responce, and that same 1 unit on a bg of 150 would probably be too much insulin

Then you have to throw in if the bg is bounce induced, carb induced, stress induced etc. or if the cat is running lower at night and higer during the day or vice versa. How much and when they eat. How much excersize they get, are there any other health related issues, how are their teeth and on and on.

ECID unfortunately and there is no set rule that says if you do this your cat will go into remission, that's why we call this a sugar dance. We just dance around trying to find what works for our cat.
 
That was pretty much what I was hoping for - reasoning wise, and supports what I have done a few times - timing wise, not so much dose. Thank you!!!

I try not to get hung up too much on the numbers or on the exact times, but when I sleep longer than intended, then wake up and see high numbers, I kick myself. But even last night... as I looked at his days numbers and compared them to previous ones and those that followed, as well as their times, I wasn't sure if last night would be a 10 or 22 hour cycle. My goal is to catch him on either cycle before he climbs into the 400s. I will have to work to do better on that one. I'm fortunate that I live close to work and can usually slip out to test/shoot - usually. That's why he started to climb last night. I checked him at 7:00 am,10:30, at 1:00 and then not again til 5:15. I feel like 3:00 would've been the ideal time to shoot.

Thanks for taking the time to help!

Lu
 
We want to give you the information you need, but not so much that you take it and run. If you shoot 2 hours early, then the next shot would be 2 hours late, sticking to a 12/12 schedule. The problem with shooting before a certain number (say your 400) is that the next cycle can be really messed up. I think we would encourage you to change the dose a little before messing with a 12/12 schedule, especially if you are new to the dance. Note that everyone who messed with the 12/12 had the data necessary to do it.

Changing the dose up or down is much easier and can be very effective, especially while you are collecting data.
 
I agree with Sue, I wouldn't be doing too much experimenting this early in the dance.

There are far to many things that we havn't covered yet mostly because they havn't come up for you yet and the other is we don't have a ss.

The more information you can gather the better decisions you will make.
 
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