Diet Questions

[KatWolfdancer]

I have questions. LOTS of questions. Some will undoubtably sound .. dopey. But my Grammy used to tell me the only really stupid question is the one which remains unasked. This is a pretty long post, but without the *rest* of the story, I don't think I'd make much sense.. So here goes:

I have been told to keep Harley on a 7% carb/78% protein diet. (carbs % I know for certain. I may be a bit off on the protein levels.) I was prescribed a Purina canned diabetes-specific food "DM" and also a Hill's Science Diet canned diabetes-specific food. I have been a "label reader" for some many years now, and am not so fond of the ingredients used in either of these commercial foods, and Harley absolutely refuses to eat them without having to "hide" the food with other higher-value foods. Hiding the DM is more work than cooking for him.

So I researched the BARF diet for felines, and tried a few test runs. Harley also abhors raw foods. :roll: He prefers his squooshy foods cooked, please, and thank you. :YMSIGH:

But that got me thinking, as I studied the recipes. So what I KNOW:
1) 100% protein diets are not healthy. They put stress on liver functions, and do not supply all the vitamins, minerals and elements that critturs need to survive.
2) too many carbs is very bad for diabetic kitties. Carbs = Higher Blood glucose numbers.
3) The percentages indicate a "per daily diet intake".

I bought a feline-specific raw-diet supplement from these folks: Complete Natural Nutrition
http://www.completenaturalnutrition.com/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=19#
because I knew I needed appropriate vitamins, Tuarine, minerals etc if I was going to give him a mostly-meat diet.
I have been "cooking" for him. Canned tuna, skinless boneless chicken breasts broiled cut up and then simmered in organic chicken stock, and chicken livers cooked VERY raw-ish and also simmered in chicken stock, and turkey burger. I don't mix them up together, I separate into "flavor groups" so he can have some variety. .
I also dehydrate chicken jerky for him (skinned boneless breasts) which I use for treats and rewards.

I add a kidney supporting supplement, a small squirt of fish oil, and his vitamin supplement to the "home cooked" meat, and then I add about 2 TBS of Friskies pate canned food. I add either the tuna juice, or the chicken stock, depending on what "flavor group" he is getting that day. He eats approx 2 cans' worth of this mix a day.

Is there a formula for figuring out protein/carb/fat/fiber contents of various meats?
How does one integrate known % factors with additions of meat? I mean, if the canned food is say 14% crude protein, and you add 1/2 cup of 100% protein meat, what do you end up with?
Just how much kibble are they allowed, daily, if I'm feeding Taste of the Wild (14% carbs/68% -I think-protein bison/salmon) kibble as a treat/reward/emergency snack? 2 TBS? 1/2 cup? 2 mouthfuls? five mouthfuls??
Just how many treats is he allowed daily?

If he gets into the "general population kibble" -which he has a couple of times despite my vigilance- how many bites before I panic?

In other words, just how strict must we be? And does anyone know how I calculate his nutritional intake?

>^,,^<

 

[Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)]

Good call on the aversion to prescription diets. Purina DM canned is okay from a carbs point of view. But as far as quality? No better than many store brands. It's over-prescribed, over-priced and over-rated. The Hill's? Carbage and garbage, no matter which secret formula you use. I'd feed Bob Cap'n Crunch before I'd give him Hills M/D. He ate it for a couple days and refused to eat it again. The way it smelled, I couldn't see why a cat would stick his face in the bowl. And Cap'n Crunch is probably lower in carbs too

I can't answer your question about percentages by meat type. But have you been to catinfo.org? Dr. P has a recipe for making your own food, and not sure but the data might be on her website.

 

[KatWolfdancer]

I study her website. I couldn't find any charts there... Hers was the raw diet I tried, but my picky baby boy just does NOT like raw meats. (my fault, I should have givven them both raw meats when they were babies, and I didn't ohmygod_smile

I'll go peekie boo back there and see if I missed something.. That's a ..significant website ! Thanks for the response;..

>^,,^<

 

[Deb & Wink]

On the kibble amounts, it's hard to know how your cat reacts to a little or a lot of the extra high carbs in the kibble.

You could run a food test. Test the BG, feed the kibble, take the BG again in +1, +2 with no other food given. See if the BG numbers go up. You may need to run a food test over several days, to see the trend. Other factors such as more play time, less or more food, a little bit different on measuring the insulin in the syringe can all impact the BG numbers.

So your kitty likes contraband does he? :shock: , stealing the other cat's kibble.

How about the food chart list that Dr. Pierson puts together? Look for a commercial food with < 10% carbs. http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf There are lots of choices here. You should be able to find several flavors, brands that your kitty likes better than the DM.

 

[KatWolfdancer]

Thank you for the suggestions !

You could run a food test

That's a great idea ! Why didn't I think of that Thanks!

and yeah, he's a kibble junkie. Even when I tell him No don't you touch it, he'll pretend he's innocent and grab a mouthful, jump down and sneak under the table to eat his contraband.. Naughty Harley :smile:

>^,,^<

 

[BJM]

If you are still feeding your other cats dry food and are unable or unwilling to switch them to low carb canned or raw, there are a very few low carb dry foods which you might consider using for them. Then the contraband becomes a non-issue. Plus, the nutrition is a bit better for them, though not optimal in moisture.

Young Again 0 Carb (internet sales only; cats may eat less)
Evo Cat & Kitten
Wellness Core Original in gold and tan bag

Stella & Chewy's freeze dried - could be gradually moistened to facilitate transitioning. There have been some reports of constipation when using it dry.