Did I catch her in time? Help!

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Wow no, it was almost an hour and 15 minutes ago! The time went by so fast! She's sitting on the edge of the table now, cleaning herself up. Doesn't look distressed at all.
 
ok I took the dish. Seriously she's eaten more vigorously than she has in three days. I'm kind of glad to see that, she didn't eat much for so long..only about a third what she normally does per day
 
no typo...he started her out three days ago at 5 unites once a day, then day before yesterday only the second day in, he upped the dose to 7 units, once a day.
 
Do you think you could get a quick test in while she is deep in her meal? Maybe pick the drier ear, a quick firm poke.

The 55 was 17 hours after the shot? That is very unusual, even for a high dose. If you can regroup, take a deep breath. Heat up her ear or paw. (Do you have a rice sack to heat it? If not, put some very warm water in a pill box and hold it next to ear.) Discuss this with her and for you, reassuringly. Poke firmly and hang on, milking it if needed.
 
Yup, it's been 18 hours since her last shot. He upped the dose over the weekend. Scared me silly doing that I was afraid I'd end up at the Emergency vet.
 
She's done her meal and gone to her little bed. I will try to sneak up and get the paw. If I use a lancet she probably won't know what hit her. Then I can get the drop. Gotta be more blood there than in her ear. Gimme a few.
 
I've put her in her bed and covered her up. Will take the sample in a sec...what setting should I use on the lancet..is the paw tough?
 
He swears that cats don't go into remission. He's the only game in town, folks. We live in a very rural area...and difficult to travel in bad weather over mountains.
 
This is a very small town vet, and I'm not happy with him, actually. He doesn't seem to have any knowledge of nutrition..and I was wondering why he only had me give her insulin once a day. And he wanted me to do the increase when he wasn't in the office for help if I get in trouble. The ER vet in the next town over, (20 miles on roads that aren't plowed in snow time, they close the roads here).. won't even do a quick question over the phone..he insistes you go in and he'll do every test he can think of...that guy's more profit driven than any vet I've ever seen. Not well liked at all in this area.
 
I will ask my vet when he's in, whether he wants to go to BID. He really pushed the PZI so I don't think he'll change that yet. PZI is long acting, right?
 
The PZI is a good, mild, long lasting insulin. It just needs to be given twice a day, in a reasonable amount, as determined by home testing numbers.

That is a possibility too, Elizabeth.

We will wait with great anticipation for your test, Jeanne. Best of luck!
 
Egad...I had to ditch the tool and just use the lancet and it's like she has no blood. I thought I had a drop but my meter spit out an error msg. I'm about in tears, doctor should be in in about 15 minutes.
 
I can try another paw...her foot felt nice and warm but perhaps with my heating tool....I am using an old Clinidrops bottle..it works nicely to warm. She seems fine, a little annoyed with me actually

I'm beginning to think I need larger lancets. I'm using a 30
 
Yes, that is probably part of the problem. We suggest 25-27 gauge in the beginning. But you can double poke with the thinner ones. A quick firm second poke in the same spot. And warm it thoroughly for 20-30 seconds. Some people "sing" while doing this. It relaxes the cat and you. There is a song circulating here called the Pokey, Pokey.
 
He acted astounded that her sugar was so low. I will keep doing ear sticks but I think I might add some IV fluid to her..although she's been drinking and I've added a little water to her food, even.
 
Her highest sugar reading ever was 445 but I'm betting that was stress from her mouth being sore from the stomatitis and bad teeth. It was 300 the first time the vet did bloodwork in his office, and just before the surgery it was 445. Also when she goes to the vet she is SO stressed. We don't get visitors here..if we want to entertain we do it away from home, eat out, etc. So our animals aren't real used to people.
 
Our house has had some unusually high stress in the past year. Next door neighbor's house burnt down. We lost two cats, similar to another poster here..actually we lost one of them almost exactly a year ago to the day. And Dottie's gums were constantly getting inflamed. Then construction on a bridge only about a hundred yards from the house. Chronic stress for about ayear.
 
I still think there is a chance the test was off, Jeanne.

There do seem to be lots of factors involved - teeth infection and surgery, possible antibiotics after, too much insulin given only once daily and a change to a lower carb diet (is that right too?). And yes, people report that test taken at the vet can be 100+ points higher than one taken just a few minutes later at home, because of vet stress.

That is why we like home testing so much.

Ha, ha. Elizabeth. My voice would scare the cat, not relax her. :nailbiting:
 
Yes she has been on Clindrops for ten days now. And the surgery was rough...she has a bad time with anesthesia. I really think the vet started the insulin too soon..only one day after her surgery. He swears there is no such thing as a cat going into remission, and also swore to me that a test of 445 showed irreversible diabetes. Like I said, he is the only game in town, a VERY small town vet. And now I'm reading online that a lot of vets don't even understand nutrition and how it affects their sugar levels..that they're brainwashed by the pet food companies and just follow their advice when it comes to feeding. That really scares me.
 
THANK YOU SO MUCH for your help. I'd have never made it without you all. Just goes to show how important forums like this can be...especially to a novice. I will keep you updated, and I'm going to go to bed in my recliner next to Dottie and sleep Very Lightly..and offer her food from time to time and just let her settle down. Probably the next time you will hear from me will be in about 5 hours. That would be the time Dottie would 'normally' get her shot.

Except that she's only been on insulin for 4 days, and even then she was only on 5 units for two of those days. The next few days should be very interesting indeed.

Oh and yes I was switching to a lower carb diet.

Thank you again, you are all so wonderful.:bighug: Big hugs to each of you. Dottie needs a break too. I'm going to wash her little ears and reapply the neosporin before I sleep.

Love you all

Bye for now.
 
Jeanne, yes, sadly the vets do not know enough about FD as they usually don't go back and get more education on it since they graduated and a lot of new research in the last few years. And also sadly they do not know enough about feline nutrition and push expensive RX foods that are too high in carbs. They get seduced from the RX food companies.

I hope you will let @Sue and Oliver (GA) guide you with your ProZinc journey, as she knows her stuff. Once you catch you breath, let us help you get set up with a SS(spread sheet) like the rest of us use which will help the peeps here help you with dosing twice a day and find the right dose for Dottie.
 
You and Dottie have a good rest. Please come on before your next shot and let us help. We have a protocol of wet low carb, home testing and carefully dosed insulin shots that will not only keep Dottie safe but will help get her regulated and maybe even remission. We have lots of cats here who go into remission, my kitty included.
 
Ack I'm still up. Dottie is resting, and I washed and redressed her ears. Gizmo needed attention so I had to focus on him for a bit. Now I will sleep. Bless you all.
 
Jeanne,

I'm glad you found FDMB. Obviously it is always necessary to consult your vet. It's tricky in a situation such as yours where you've got Hobson's choice when it comes to who your vet is. However, you now have additional resources where you can educate yourself about nutrition, diabetes, and insulin treatment. Hopefully that will help you to develop a better working partnership with your vet. Between all of us, you will be able to get this all sorted out. You're not alone with this, OK! :bighug:

I note that you're trying to get Dottie onto a lower carb food. I suggest that you maybe keep her on her normal food for now until you get a better idea of where her blood glucose is and until you sort out a good, safe dose of insulin for her. Once you sort out the insulin side of things and get some BG test results the food change will be safer and more manageable.

I also suggest that you start a new thread on Feline Health asking for dosing suggestions before Dottie's next insulin dose is due. (Remember to include insulin type, meter type, and info on previous doses and BG levels in your opening post. We can help you get a spreadsheet going, too, if you'd like some help with that.)

Hang in there, Jeanne. You're in early days now, but it will get easier - very soon. :bighug::bighug::bighug:



Mogs
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Jeanne Skadowski said:
He swears that cats don't go into remission. He's the only game in town, folks. We live in a very rural area...and difficult to travel in bad weather over mountains.
Click to expand...

Jeanne, I going to suggest that you pretty much put all of your vets advice in the closet and shut the door ... FIRMLY. The people on this board have led so many kitties to remission, including my own, since I've been here, just over a year.

They know what they're talking about and are so willing to help!

First, if you could write up this info in your signature, it'd save a lot of time for who want to help:

Kitty's name
Your name
Your location
Date of diagnosis
Food being fed, brand and type
Meter used
Insulin used and current dosage

With all of this stuff in one place it makes it much easier to answer your questions and to make suggestions. It does sound like you're willing to do whatever is neccesary to help Dottie. :cat:
 
BTW, you did a great job this morning, with various people asking questions and trying to help. You were cool and calm and did the things you needed to help Dottie. This attitude will help you going forward. Listen to our advice, research for yourself, talk to your vet and decide what makes sense for you and for her. We have helped a lot of people help their kitties and we'd be happy to help you.

The protocol we put together for PZI/ProZinc is in my signature in blue.
 
Jeanne Skadowski said:
He swears that cats don't go into remission.
Click to expand...

<--- Those 5 cats in my avatar. All went into remission. Smokey is the only one that came out, when a large green mass attached her pancreas to her intestines making it hard for it to work properly. Chris remained in remission even while on prednisolone for almost 2 months. Cats do go into remission. I am not surprised your vet doesn't think so because he isn't treating them correctly. Is it possible for you to approach your vet in a suggestive manner? Tell him that the low number scared you and you'd like to give the insulin half as much in 2 doses a day. It is harder on the caregiver, but it is better for the cat. PZI is a good insulin you don't need to look at changing insulin right now, just get that dosing straightened out.

You did very well following your gut instincts and monitoring Dottie to keep her safe. Even though you couldn't get blood for more BG tests, you were there to monitor how she looked and felt.
 
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Jeanne Skadowski said:
Our house has had some unusually high stress in the past year. Next door neighbor's house burnt down. We lost two cats, similar to another poster here..actually we lost one of them almost exactly a year ago to the day. And Dottie's gums were constantly getting inflamed. Then construction on a bridge only about a hundred yards from the house. Chronic stress for about ayear.
Click to expand...

I was very sorry to hear about your losses, Jeanne, and how very hard things have been with you for the past while. Chronic stress is awful. I empathize.

:bighug::bighug::bighug:


Mogs
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UPDATE on Dottie:D I am pleased to announce that our furkid is doing WONDERFULLY, thanks to your precious advice this morning. I don't know what we would have done without you.

Her BG, tested at 6:15pm is 155! After talking to you all, I put her into her little bed next to my recliner, and saw to it that she had food within reach for a short time. Then I took a nap. I also sent hubby to the pharmacy for larger gauge lancets. And it worked! The eenieweenie lancets, size 30, were just too small.

I'm going to watch her closely through the night. Her respiration rate gives me lots of hints. She's right on target at 29 relaxed breaths a minute. I know this kitty's every wisker and move. She's my lap baby. Our other kitty, Gizmo, is a wild man, and long haired. He fidgets, must get hot if he stays still for long.

I will add to my signature with the details of Dottie's care. Dunno why I didn't think of that, it's a brilliant way to inform everyone. Thanks for that tip!

Oh yes...and our vet is very defensive. Very.
 
Good to hear! It seems like a lot people's vets on this board are very defensive. Our vets are thankfully very open-minded - two of them are a husband and wife who happen to have a diabetic cat of their own, so they know on a personal level the day to day struggles.
 
Hurray! That is a lovely number. I am assuming that is 12 hours since her previous shot? If so, I hope you are planning to skip tonight, correct? (We suggest new diabetics not get insulin under 200). Then we would expect tomorrow's number to be high, as it will have been 24 hours since the last shot.

But I would plan to reduce the dose. The goal is to have two shootable numbers daily. The trick is to figure out how much to reduce. It is so much easier to add a little insulin as your tests indicate. If you will be around tomorrow to test, that will also make a difference.
 
Vet says to stop all insulin and see where she goes. I am monitoring food intake very carefully.

On the subject of vets: Sometimes I feel really bad for them. Veterinary services are not yet as good as our human ones. Instead of a general practitioner and many specialists, most pet owners have to deal with a single guy. And it's absolutely possible to treat a large patient load, and learn everything the vet school either didn't teach you, or to learn all the new information being learned, at the same time.

A typical vet is only one person, yet we expect them to know everything and keep up to date. It's not like you see on the new tv reality show, Vet School, which is a large teaching hospital here in Corning, NY. (Which is about 100 miles from us, btw). There are no speciailsts here in the boondocks...they're in the human hubs...cities.

So the average patient has to depend on one overworked guy who may have gone to school 20 years ago, and must now be godlike, and know everything. He's trying to keep up but especially if he has a family, it's hard to maintain a practice without burning out.

My own take is that's the reason vets depend on the pharmaceutical companies to do their research for them...and those companies have a vested interest in promoting themselves and their products. Painful fact, but true. Not everyone is a good guy, and the bad guys are sprinkled everywhere...the ones who look at their bottom line first, and patient welfare second. The pet food industry is a massive moneymaker, for the most part owned by only a few companies. They have lobbys in Washington and here in the USA, go in the back door to give out favors, and wield sticks against politicians who would see better, more reliable laws concerning the quality of goods in food production for both human and pet consumption, and drugs.

And these same manufacturers can make or break a vet's reputation. :banghead: They can give him a hard time if he speaks out against food quality. They threaten litigation if a vet doesn't go along with their outlines as to the worthiness of their pet quality foods. This happens with human products too. It's firm unyielding pressure that can take a person's livelihood away in a heartbeat. Perhaps most vets prefer to keep quiet, and be able to make comments privately, rather than fight the machine. Heck, without that mindset we might not even have many vets..

My vet is a nice guy, but overworked.:arghh: Like I mentioned, he is rural so he has a large patient load spread out over a huge area. He and three other vets in towns that cover a radius of about 80 miles, must handle everything. Half of the other vets do large animal work too, and that means travel time added into their daily time frame. This vet we have, is small animal oriented, specializing in dogs and cats only, so he's in big demand, and since this area used to be factory oriented, it's now a depressed area, with many people on fixed incomes or public assistance. He is very cost conscious, very sensitive to the human conditions within his practice area, and afraid to promote expensive protocols out to many of his patients, because it distresses them so, to not be able to afford the latest care. I'm sure it distresses him greatly to watch their pain.

Just like human emergency rooms everywhere...the personnel are subject to burnout. :blackeye: So much emotion, and for most, not even insurance to help out...that's painful.

I think that's why our vet insisted we start with urine tests. He wasn't sure we could afford the initial diabetes protocol. Maybe he was trying to ease us into care without giving us sticker shock.

What he doesn't know about is, is that we have built up an emergency fund for the cats only. We have always kept multiple kitties, and to have only two now, is quite unusual. So we learned the hard way that if you don't plan for pet emergencies, it can be a lethal consequence for furkids.

We're stretched tight, but as long as our house doesn't catch fire, or we have a flood, or aliens attack:confused:...we're doing ok. And now we have a group of diabetic cat owners online, who frankly have more experience actually fighting in the trenches, years of dealing with their own pets, than many vets will ever see. I am so glad we found you.
 
HI Jeanne! Welcome--
I was just reading and saw the rough start :eek:
My guy was on pro zinc for a while and we have switched to lantus….
Most vets familiar with FD do prefer the longer lasting insulins (lantus/levimer) but it is a 12/12 or 1x a day with levimer schedule for many reasons including safety and home testing is really a helpful tool.
You did a great job, I just want to encourage you to continue learning about this disease because as the others said vets just do not have much experience with it unless it is a specialty that they pursue. This forum has so many knowledgable and supportive people -
you have come to the right place…. hang in there and remember a doctor only knows what he/ she is taught (no matter how many years ago)
good luck hun :)
By the way check out the lantus/levimer forum and you can see how many remissions DO happen:cat:
 
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