Diagnosed yesterday and want to make sure I’m doing it right

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picklesmom

picklesmom

Member Since 2020
Hi all,

My 6 year old boy Pickles was diagnosed yesterday after we brought him in bc he was peeing a lot. His level was something around 500. He’s 18lb. The instructions given to me by the vet weren’t as detailed as I like so I’m hoping you all can help me.

vet told me to to keep feeding him the same food (dry - Putina pro plan) but don’t let him graze. Take it away after he’s done. I should add he’s never been a lover of wet food. The only wet food I’ve found he like is squeezeups - basically ground up liquid chicken or tuna.

after reading through this forum I bought some fancy feast classics and here’s what he ate at 8am today.
1/2 can FF
1/4 cup dry food
1 tube of squeeze up

while he was eating the dry I gave him 2 units of vetsulin.

now do I give him nothing until 12 hrs from now? Is 12hrs a hard and fast rule? Since he normally grazes I’m worried he’ll be hungry

the vet said it’s fine to give him occasional treats throughout the day (temptations).

I also ordered a glucose monitor from chewy. I see most people do the ear. Is the paw pad an option? I’ve started giving him a couple temptations while rubbing his ears (he’s not a fan so far..)

Thank you all!
 
LOL well would you be a fan? :p
WELCOME TO FDMB! I am so glad you found us. We are a community DEDICATED kitty cat lovers determined NOT to let this disease get the better of ANYONE. That includes you! Welcome to our family. :bighug:
Theres a wealth of information here with good folks to help you navigate this disease in the best way possible for Pickles. (cute name btw)
Hold on for more replies and remember above all else, the only stupid question is the one not asked! ;):coffee:
jeanne

BTW my cat wouldnt eat the prescription food either. What good is a food if the cat wont eat it.???
Also ALL dry food is packed with carbs that works AGAINST insulin. There are ways to work around that and we can help you with it.:)
jeanne
 
Welcome to you and Pickles!!

you need to try to stay away from dry foods and treats. Temptations is as bad as it gets. Does he like raw freeze treats? Have you tried them? Minnie loves the Purebites Shrimp and the VitalEssentials Minnows. Maybe even cooked chicken? How much carb is there in the tube of squeeze up? You’re aiming for less than 10% carbs across the board.

I have to be honest I’m not a fan of Vetsulin or caninsulin since it was designed for dogs hence the name, caninsulin for canine. I’m also not an expert on it but I know it’s made to hit fast and it wears off fast too. You should give the insulin every 12 hours no matter which one your cat is on.

Glad you’re going to home test! What meter did you get? Yes, you can test the paw if the ears don’t work for you. Most of us here use human meters like Walmart’s ReliOn or Freestyle. The pet meter test strips can get expensive when you’re testing 4-5 times a day.

welcome again!!
 
Aleluia Grugru & Minnie said:
Welcome to you and Pickles!!

you need to try to stay away from dry foods and treats. Temptations is as bad as it gets. Does he like raw freeze treats? Have you tried them? Minnie loves the Purebites Shrimp and the VitalEssentials Minnows. Maybe even cooked chicken? How much carb is there in the tube of squeeze up? You’re aiming for less than 10% carbs across the board.

I have to be honest I’m not a fan of Vetsulin or caninsulin since it was designed for dogs hence the name, caninsulin for canine. I’m also not an expert on it but I know it’s made to hit fast and it wears off fast too. You should give the insulin every 12 hours no matter which one your cat is on.

Glad you’re going to home test! What meter did you get? Yes, you can test the paw if the ears don’t work for you. Most of us here use human meters like Walmart’s ReliOn or Freestyle. The pet meter test strips can get expensive when you’re testing 4-5 times a day.

welcome again!!
Click to expand...
Thanks for the response! I’ll try to get some low carb treats. Here’s the nutrition info for squeezeups

Ingredients: Water, Tuna, Tapioca Starch, Natural and Artificial Flavor, Guar Gum, Natural Tuna Flavor.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (min) - 8.0%
Crude Fat (min) - 0.1%
Crude Fiber (max) - 0.5%
Moisture (max) - 90.0%
Ash (max) - 3.0%
Calorie Content - 530 kcal ME/kg (calculated)
Calories per Pack - 7.5 kcal ME/14.2 g

does that seem okay? I don’t see carb count.

I’m worried about completely cutting out dry food for now bc I’m not testing yet and his dose is based on mainly dry food.

is it okay to leave any uneaten food out for him to finish throughout the day? This morning he only ate about half of what he normally would eat during the day and now he’s following me around and meowing. I feel bad if he’s hungry !
 
The other thing I’ll say is cats are natural grazers so they tend to do better with smaller meals throughout the day. Most of us feed the bulk of their meals around shot times and a few smaller meals here and there. I have a feeling your vet is more experienced with dogs because it sounds like he’s treating cats the same way he treats dogs, but cats have higher metabolism and it’s also easier on the pancreas if they eat more than just twice a day
 
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picklesmom said:
Thanks for the response! I’ll try to get some low carb treats. Here’s the nutrition info for squeezeups

Ingredients: Water, Tuna, Tapioca Starch, Natural and Artificial Flavor, Guar Gum, Natural Tuna Flavor.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (min) - 8.0%
Crude Fat (min) - 0.1%
Crude Fiber (max) - 0.5%
Moisture (max) - 90.0%
Ash (max) - 3.0%
Calorie Content - 530 kcal ME/kg (calculated)
Calories per Pack - 7.5 kcal ME/14.2 g

does that seem okay? I don’t see carb count.

I’m worried about completely cutting out dry food for now bc I’m not testing yet and his dose is based on mainly dry food.

is it okay to leave any uneaten food out for him to finish throughout the day? This morning he only ate about half of what he normally would eat during the day and now he’s following me around and meowing. I feel bad if he’s hungry !
Click to expand...

I agree. I wouldn’t do the switch until you’re home testing especially since you’re doing 2 units not 1. I’d say yes, leave the food out for now. Cats can lose a lot of weight when they become diabetic because they also can’t process nutrients as well so they’re constantly hungry even though they’re eating.

Most foods won’t list the carb content but you should be able to find it on their websites. The tapioca starch makes me think it could be high carb. See if it’s listed online, if not I’d email the manufacturer and ask them :cat:

@Diane Tyler's Mom @JanetNJ who are the Vetsulin pros here I can tag? Thanks!
 
picklesmom said:
Thanks for the response! I’ll try to get some low carb treats. Here’s the nutrition info for squeezeups

Ingredients: Water, Tuna, Tapioca Starch, Natural and Artificial Flavor, Guar Gum, Natural Tuna Flavor.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (min) - 8.0%
Crude Fat (min) - 0.1%
Crude Fiber (max) - 0.5%
Moisture (max) - 90.0%
Ash (max) - 3.0%
Calorie Content - 530 kcal ME/kg (calculated)
Calories per Pack - 7.5 kcal ME/14.2 g

does that seem okay? I don’t see carb count.

I’m worried about completely cutting out dry food for now bc I’m not testing yet and his dose is based on mainly dry food.

is it okay to leave any uneaten food out for him to finish throughout the day? This morning he only ate about half of what he normally would eat during the day and now he’s following me around and meowing. I feel bad if he’s hungry !
Click to expand...
Btw, I leave food out for Minnie overnight too. I think cats are just not used to eating it all in one sitting like dogs are. And with Vetsulin he needs to eat. I space out Minnie’s food in the 2 hour period around the shot at every 30 minutes or so. That way she’s eating gradually and not all at once
 
Welcome! When Max was diagnosed, I learned from this site about just how many carbs are in dry, including the prescription dry food and switched to wet food (over a course of 4 days, but I’m also testing at home). It brought his numbers down up to 100 points.

I feed him AMPS, lunch at +5, then again at PMPS. He’s been having some lower than “normal” numbers so I’ve also been giving him a tsp at +1 and +2, but this is specific to Max since I try to surf him to the low point (nadir).

I have heard of Dr Elsey dry food that is low carb, but I don’t have any experience with that. Does anyone else?

Im using the Alpha Trak 2 and the strips are pretty pricey. Max was Dx early June and I just started my 3rd bottle of strips at $50/bottle (50 strips). If he continues his diabetic journey, I will probably switch.
 
NoahFL said:
Welcome! When Max was diagnosed, I learned from this site about just how many carbs are in dry, including the prescription dry food and switched to wet food (over a course of 4 days, but I’m also testing at home). It brought his numbers down up to 100 points.

I feed him AMPS, lunch at +5, then again at PMPS. He’s been having some lower than “normal” numbers so I’ve also been giving him a tsp at +1 and +2, but this is specific to Max since I try to surf him to the low point (nadir).

I have heard of Dr Elsey dry food that is low carb, but I don’t have any experience with that. Does anyone else?

Im using the Alpha Trak 2 and the strips are pretty pricey. Max was Dx early June and I just started my 3rd bottle of strips at $50/bottle (50 strips). If he continues his diabetic journey, I will probably switch.
Click to expand...
Thank you ! As you made the switch, did you lower the insulin amount?
 
NoahFL said:
Not immediately, that’s why spot checking throughout the day is so important. Max is on Prozinc and we’ve had really good results with that. I’m sure someone will chime in who is familiar with the insulin you are using.

Was Pickles on any steroids prior to his Dx?
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Thanks for the reply and info! No not on steroids.

and once I do fully switch him to wet food, how many cans of fancy feast should an 18lb cat eat a day? Based on the can it says a can per 3 lbs of cat but that sounds like way too much!
 
picklesmom said:
Thanks for the reply and info! No not on steroids.

and once I do fully switch him to wet food, how many cans of fancy feast should an 18lb cat eat a day? Based on the can it says a can per 3 lbs of cat but that sounds like way too much!
Click to expand...

@JanetNJ helped me with determining how much Max needed. “So the rule of thumb is about 20 calories per pound of ideal weight. So if you are feeding a 10 lb cat that would be about 200 calories per day. Diabetics with unregulated numbers sometimes will need more because they aren't utilizing the nutrients properly.”

I would keep track of his weight too. I’m assuming it’s just like us, if we are losing weight, we aren’t consuming enough calories. If we are maintaining, we’re getting enough calories and if we’re gaining, too many calories.
 
NoahFL said:
@JanetNJ helped me with determining how much Max needed. “So the rule of thumb is about 20 calories per pound of ideal weight. So if you are feeding a 10 lb cat that would be about 200 calories per day. Diabetics with unregulated numbers sometimes will need more because they aren't utilizing the nutrients properly.”

I would keep track of his weight too. I’m assuming it’s just like us, if we are losing weight, we aren’t consuming enough calories. If we are maintaining, we’re getting enough calories and if we’re gaining, too many calories.
Click to expand...
Thanks Noah I couldn’t remember the formula! Minnie’s ideal weight is 16 so 300 was about right for her :)
 
Aleluia Grugru & Minnie said:
I agree. I wouldn’t do the switch until you’re home testing especially since you’re doing 2 units not 1. I’d say yes, leave the food out for now. Cats can lose a lot of weight when they become diabetic because they also can’t process nutrients as well so they’re constantly hungry even though they’re eating.

Most foods won’t list the carb content but you should be able to find it on their websites. The tapioca starch makes me think it could be high carb. See if it’s listed online, if not I’d email the manufacturer and ask them :cat:

@Diane Tyler's Mom @JanetNJ who are the Vetsulin pros here I can tag? Thanks!
Click to expand...
Hey Ale, I'll tag @Deb & Wink
 
Not a Vetsulin pro. Nope, not me. ;)

Try squeezing the "squeeze ups" on top of the wet food. As an enticement to get him to eat the wet food underneath.
It's more important right now, that Pickle is eating enough, than eating the lower carb food at this point.
We don't want to see ketones form. Or have a hypo because he isn't eating well.

There should be a 20-30 minute lag (wait time) between feeding and giving Vetsulin. That is because Vetsulin onsets (starts to work) faster than some of the other insulins, so you are trying to balance the food having a bit of time to be digested with the Vetsulin onset time.

Have you seen this document?>>>>>>>>> Sticky BEGINNER'S GUIDE TO CANINSULIN/VETSULIN
 
Deb & Wink said:
Not a Vetsulin pro. Nope, not me. ;)

Try squeezing the "squeeze ups" on top of the wet food. As an enticement to get him to eat the wet food underneath.
It's more important right now, that Pickle is eating enough, than eating the lower carb food at this point.
We don't want to see ketones form. Or have a hypo because he isn't eating well.

There should be a 20-30 minute lag (wait time) between feeding and giving Vetsulin. That is because Vetsulin onsets (starts to work) faster than some of the other insulins, so you are trying to balance the food having a bit of time to be digested with the Vetsulin onset time.

Have you seen this document?>>>>>>>>> Sticky BEGINNER'S GUIDE TO CANINSULIN/VETSULIN
Click to expand...
Thank you! Yes I’ve been trying to let him eat, waiting about 20 mins then giving him the squeeze up to distract him from the shot. I did read that intro guide yesterday, It’s frustrating that my vet gave me so little information. For example he told me “to make sure there’s a little food in him before giving the injection”... which means at first I was waiting like 3 minutes max..

Anyway.. I just managed to get his first glucose reading. I’ve been trying constantly ( he got 4 paw pokes yesterday but none of them gave me enough blood to test and then he ran away). Finally today my husband just held him while I did it and it was so easy. I’m using the alpha trak2 from chewy. He got his first shot at 7:10am and his glucose reading was 284 at 11:30. I’m assuming this is around nadir? Since this is still pretty high, I’m wondering if I can take away the dry high carb. I did order young again mature zero and hope to let him graze on this throughout the day. I also switched him from temptations to freeze dried shrimp and he’s finally starting to like them. Stubborn sugar kitty!
 
I *THINK* the usual bowl of dry, less a couple of tablespoons less each feeding? I'm not sure I never had to exactly deal with that. I havent had a diabetic in YEARS...We went cold turkey and tested a LOT and kept an eye on him. I'm sure theres a better calculation for it. I'll go look and see if I can find that.:)
 
Deb & Wink said:
Not a Vetsulin pro. Nope, not me. ;)

Try squeezing the "squeeze ups" on top of the wet food. As an enticement to get him to eat the wet food underneath.
It's more important right now, that Pickle is eating enough, than eating the lower carb food at this point.
We don't want to see ketones form. Or have a hypo because he isn't eating well.

There should be a 20-30 minute lag (wait time) between feeding and giving Vetsulin. That is because Vetsulin onsets (starts to work) faster than some of the other insulins, so you are trying to balance the food having a bit of time to be digested with the Vetsulin onset time.

Have you seen this document?>>>>>>>>> Sticky BEGINNER'S GUIDE TO CANINSULIN/VETSULIN
Click to expand...
Deb, can you help us tag the folks who do have Vetsulin experience? Thanks!
 
picklesmom said:
For example he told me “to make sure there’s a little food in him before giving the injection”... which means at first I was waiting like 3 minutes max..
Click to expand...
My cats could gobble down a whole can of Fancy Feast in < 3 minutes flat!
picklesmom said:
I also switched him from temptations to freeze dried shrimp and he’s finally starting to like them. Stubborn sugar kitty!
Click to expand...
Freeze dried, any type of pure protein is usually a hit with cats. Fish, freeze dried chicken (Halo Liv-a-Littles), freeze dried minnows, bits of cooked meat, little bits of cheese, egg, are all options if your cat likes those.

Bribes, bribes are the key to a cat's stomach and getting them to come to you for testing.

I ground up some of the freeze dried chicken, and sprinkled it on top of the wet food, to get my diabetic cat Wink off the dry food and eating wet/canned food. It wasn't easy to get him to switch, but patience and persistence paid off.
 
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