Diagnosed 3/26/12
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carolynandlatte
Very Active Member
plk1977 said:
I would call and ask for my money back. If they wanted to compare meters they could have done that on their own time w/o stressing out a cat (and human) to come in for an office visit.
Did you talk to the other clinic and get his records transferred?
Here is a good link about transitioning cats to wet food and safe weight loss
http://www.catinfo.org/
Let me know if there is anything I can help with.
I read what Vennis said to the clinic and they still wanted me to come in. I'm not happy. I was told on here or was a 30 difference and I told her that and it was 32 difference. I guess they had someone who had a monitor which was way off and they said they should have noted which monitor that was but they didn't. So, they had to make sure with mine that it was accurate. I got them to add what I owe to my tab and now I will add it to my bankruptcy which I'm not closed out of.
I have Bubbas paperwork and will transfer clinics from now on. This Southview won't want to see me anyway now that I won't be paying them.
I have Bubbas paperwork and will transfer clinics from now on. This Southview won't want to see me anyway now that I won't be paying them.
carolynandlatte
Very Active Member
Just checking in to see how things are going!
plk1977 said:
Sadly, it won't. Cats' teeth are designed by nature to tear and rip, not to chew. Cats do not masticate dry food. Have you ever seen a pile of fully formed dry food thrown up by a cat? Cats swallow kibble whole or mostly whole.
The glucose levels of diabetic cats introduce serious dental disease. Feline dental procedures, being done under general anesthesia, are not inexpensive procedures. Depending on the extent of the disease and the market, feline dental procedures range from about $300 to about $1200.
You can reduce Bubba's glucose levels, and reduce his risk of dental disease, by eliminating all dry food, even the occasional piece. If you want to keep his teeth healthy, you can brush his teeth once or twice daily.
MommaOfMuse
Very Active Member
Patti,
Feeding dry food for dental health is a myth, it doesn't do anymore good for a cat than we humans eating potato chips or cookies for dental health. Plus if your diabetic is as carb sensitive as my Musette then even a few pieces can drive up those BG readings. I know with Musette as few as 3-4 pieces of dry food with rocket her bloodsugar into the 400s.
First off cats don't really chew their food, they are made to rip, tear and swallow so the dry food doesn't get a lot of time in the mouth to scrap the plaque off their teeth. The best thing for dental health in a cat is giving them raw bones to gnaw on or things like chicken gizzards which are very fiberous. Howeve, you don't want to give them bones that have been cook as that is what makes them dangerous because they become brittle and can splinter. Around here all the cats get chicken wings about once a week to gnaw on and all 16 of them have beautiful teeth except my two diabetics who where both dry fed all their lives and now need dentals.
Bubba would do much better if you could completely wean him off the dry and onto a full wet diet with a few raw bones (with plenty of meat on them of course) to gnaw on if tyou are concerned about his teeth. Or learning to brush his teeth
Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
Feeding dry food for dental health is a myth, it doesn't do anymore good for a cat than we humans eating potato chips or cookies for dental health. Plus if your diabetic is as carb sensitive as my Musette then even a few pieces can drive up those BG readings. I know with Musette as few as 3-4 pieces of dry food with rocket her bloodsugar into the 400s.
First off cats don't really chew their food, they are made to rip, tear and swallow so the dry food doesn't get a lot of time in the mouth to scrap the plaque off their teeth. The best thing for dental health in a cat is giving them raw bones to gnaw on or things like chicken gizzards which are very fiberous. Howeve, you don't want to give them bones that have been cook as that is what makes them dangerous because they become brittle and can splinter. Around here all the cats get chicken wings about once a week to gnaw on and all 16 of them have beautiful teeth except my two diabetics who where both dry fed all their lives and now need dentals.
Bubba would do much better if you could completely wean him off the dry and onto a full wet diet with a few raw bones (with plenty of meat on them of course) to gnaw on if tyou are concerned about his teeth. Or learning to brush his teeth
Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
Sorry, but a vet charging to compare meters and demanding that you come into the office for visits that are NOT needed? Change vets now.
I am not sure if anyone gave you the link to Dr. Lisa's site.... good info, very good, with much on diet and in particular that myth about the dry being good for the teeth. Nope, it's not.
Feeding Your Cat: Know The Basics of Feline Nutrition
Here's a bit from the site:
Dental Disease: Long-standing claims that cats have less dental disease when they are fed dry food versus canned food are grossly overrated, inaccurate, and are not supported by recent studies. This frequently stated (among veterinarians and lay people) myth continues to harm cats by perpetuating the idea that their food bowls need to be filled up with an unhealthy diet in order to keep their teeth clean.
The idea that dry food promotes dental health makes about as much sense as the idea that crunchy cookies would promote dental health in a human.
First, dry food is hard, but brittle, and merely shatters with little to no abrasive effect on the teeth. Second, a cat's jaws and teeth are designed for shearing and tearing meat - not biting down on dry kibble. Third, many cats swallow the majority of their dry food whole.
In general, most dry food have higher carbs so if you want to get rid of the need for insulin and testing and all the associated medical costs, a cheaper and healthier option is to feed wet low carb foods.
If you think about it, you feed dry food, the BG goes up, you give insulin to balance if off and bring numbers down. Then you feed more dry and then the BG goes up, and ..... you get the picture.
I know that some people make claims that some dry are low carb but that's not the only thing wrong with feeding dry food.
I would say that if you have a cat that eats some wet, then you are good to go with removing the dry.
I am not sure if anyone gave you the link to Dr. Lisa's site.... good info, very good, with much on diet and in particular that myth about the dry being good for the teeth. Nope, it's not.
Feeding Your Cat: Know The Basics of Feline Nutrition
Here's a bit from the site:
Dental Disease: Long-standing claims that cats have less dental disease when they are fed dry food versus canned food are grossly overrated, inaccurate, and are not supported by recent studies. This frequently stated (among veterinarians and lay people) myth continues to harm cats by perpetuating the idea that their food bowls need to be filled up with an unhealthy diet in order to keep their teeth clean.
The idea that dry food promotes dental health makes about as much sense as the idea that crunchy cookies would promote dental health in a human.
First, dry food is hard, but brittle, and merely shatters with little to no abrasive effect on the teeth. Second, a cat's jaws and teeth are designed for shearing and tearing meat - not biting down on dry kibble. Third, many cats swallow the majority of their dry food whole.
In general, most dry food have higher carbs so if you want to get rid of the need for insulin and testing and all the associated medical costs, a cheaper and healthier option is to feed wet low carb foods.
If you think about it, you feed dry food, the BG goes up, you give insulin to balance if off and bring numbers down. Then you feed more dry and then the BG goes up, and ..... you get the picture.
I know that some people make claims that some dry are low carb but that's not the only thing wrong with feeding dry food.
I would say that if you have a cat that eats some wet, then you are good to go with removing the dry.
Interesting about the hard vs soft and their teeth. When I was in Vet Tech school I was told hard food is better for them. They are eating the mixture still. I like the chicken idea with the meat on the bone. They'd love it I bet! Does the chicken have to be cooked or can it be raw? I don't eat chicken on the bone so I'd get it just for them.
How about dogs then? Should they be on wet food too? I know my dog gets board with dry food so I mix up the brands and now I'm trying to stick with quality food like Froms and I add a bit of wet from time to time and she enjoys that. So much so that when it's just dry in the bowl she'll look at me funny and refuse to eat. Eventually she does eat it but still funny how she responds to dry food only without the wet mixed in.
87 blood glucose at 1am before eating "monitor is 32 off so 55" still no insulin given and haven't noticed him peeing around the house. Have noticed poop here and there though. Not sure which cat is doing that. My beloved Mama kitty did that when she was suffering from a bladder infection.
I have Bubba's records in hand and will stop into the new vet clinic and hand them over.
How about dogs then? Should they be on wet food too? I know my dog gets board with dry food so I mix up the brands and now I'm trying to stick with quality food like Froms and I add a bit of wet from time to time and she enjoys that. So much so that when it's just dry in the bowl she'll look at me funny and refuse to eat. Eventually she does eat it but still funny how she responds to dry food only without the wet mixed in.
87 blood glucose at 1am before eating "monitor is 32 off so 55" still no insulin given and haven't noticed him peeing around the house. Have noticed poop here and there though. Not sure which cat is doing that. My beloved Mama kitty did that when she was suffering from a bladder infection.
I have Bubba's records in hand and will stop into the new vet clinic and hand them over.
plk1977 said:
It must be raw, If you cook it, the bones become brittle and can shatter while being chewed and cause problems (such as tearing the mouth or GI tract if they swallow one). Raw bones crunch but don't splinter.
I don't know about dog food. I don't have dogs. I know they are not obligate carnivores like cats and thus can tolerate the grains in dry food.
Ry & Scooter
Active Member
plk1977 said:
Sad isn't it? Look at all the vets that truly believe Science Diet is a high quality food. They went to a little seminar hosted by Hills where they were told the food was made with quality ingredients, healthy, good for teeth, among other things... and few of them care enough or have the time to ask why and educate themselves otherwise.
Also - cat meters read higher in general. The 30 point difference is usually already accounted for in literature here because probably 99% of users on here use human meters. Hypo on a human meter is below 50, on a cat meter below 80. If you got an 85 on your human meter, it would actually read as approximately 115 on a cat meter (not 55). Not the other way around. Otherwise your cat would be very hypoglycemic on one meter but not the other :lol: 87 on a human meter is still too low for most to shoot without a lot of data to go by, though.
Oh yeah lol, the numbers I get on the human are 30-32 lower than the cat monitor so I would add 30-32 to get to the cat monitor number. Oops, my error when I posted.
Well, Bubba I think is peeing on the rug in front of the litter box 2x in one day and either it was the cat or dog that peed on the kitchen floor 2 days in a row and then once on the food dish that was on the floor. He's eating normal. More wet than dry now and sometime all wet food. He has never had insulin. He behaves normal. Just don't know why he's peeing on the floor. Maybe old age? I can't afford to take him in again so I'm just dealing with the inappropriate peeing right now.
Well, Bubba I think is peeing on the rug in front of the litter box 2x in one day and either it was the cat or dog that peed on the kitchen floor 2 days in a row and then once on the food dish that was on the floor. He's eating normal. More wet than dry now and sometime all wet food. He has never had insulin. He behaves normal. Just don't know why he's peeing on the floor. Maybe old age? I can't afford to take him in again so I'm just dealing with the inappropriate peeing right now.
carolynandlatte
Very Active Member
You have Bubba's records from the last vet, right?
You can look at the urinalysis and see what it says. If you have questions you could scan/post it here, or write down what it says.
If you do not have them, call the clinic and ask them for a copy of his last urinalysis at the other place. You could pick it up or they could mail it to you.
Incontinence in cats because they are 'old' usually occurs when they are sleeping, or laying down.
It is usually behavioral or disease related when they are choosing other places to urinate. If it is not cleaned up REALLY WELL, they will often continue to urinate there again. There was a lot of incontinence in my house when I had Latte, so I learned a great deal about the issue. It was usually related to an infection.
What kind of blood sugar values are you getting now that you have pretty much switched food?
Any other plan of action? I am glad you have supplies sent by DCIN to take care of most things you may need to start treating his diabetes, if need be!
Don't be a stranger!!! :mrgreen:
You can look at the urinalysis and see what it says. If you have questions you could scan/post it here, or write down what it says.
If you do not have them, call the clinic and ask them for a copy of his last urinalysis at the other place. You could pick it up or they could mail it to you.
Incontinence in cats because they are 'old' usually occurs when they are sleeping, or laying down.
It is usually behavioral or disease related when they are choosing other places to urinate. If it is not cleaned up REALLY WELL, they will often continue to urinate there again. There was a lot of incontinence in my house when I had Latte, so I learned a great deal about the issue. It was usually related to an infection.
What kind of blood sugar values are you getting now that you have pretty much switched food?
Any other plan of action? I am glad you have supplies sent by DCIN to take care of most things you may need to start treating his diabetes, if need be!
Don't be a stranger!!! :mrgreen:
I do have the paperwork in hand from the vet.
It states:
Method-Cysto
Color-Yellow
Appearance-Clear
Spec. Gravity .1040
Urobilinogen=Neg
Protein=++300
PH=7
Blood=+++Large
Ketone=Trace
Bilirubin=Neg
Glucose=2000
Casts=Neg
WBC=0-5
RBC=5-10
Crystals=None Seen
Epithelia=Squam
Bacteria=None
Other=NA
Haven't tested Glucose since last reading I posted
It states:
Method-Cysto
Color-Yellow
Appearance-Clear
Spec. Gravity .1040
Urobilinogen=Neg
Protein=++300
PH=7
Blood=+++Large
Ketone=Trace
Bilirubin=Neg
Glucose=2000
Casts=Neg
WBC=0-5
RBC=5-10
Crystals=None Seen
Epithelia=Squam
Bacteria=None
Other=NA
Haven't tested Glucose since last reading I posted
carolynandlatte
Very Active Member
plk1977 said:
Regarding the pH:
http://www.felinecrf.org/diagnosis_urinalysis.htm
http://maxshouse.com/feline_urological_syndrome_fus.htm
*this site states pH up to 7 can be normal. It may be good to inquire with the new vet, tho*
http://www.cat-world.com.au/urinalysis
Regarding Blood in the Urine:
http://www.felinecrf.org/diagnosis_urinalysis.htm
Regarding Protein in Urine:
http://www.cat-world.com.au/urinalysis
Regarding White/Red Blood Cells:
http://www.cat-world.com.au/urinalysis
Other than the ketones and BG, everything else seems good. The one's I put in bold and added explanations may be worth asking your vet about, especially if symptoms continue.
Testing a cat who is diabetic and/or borderline, especially when you have the supplies at home, is a good way to prevent a future emergency. Infection and not enough insulin is one of the main recipes for ketones. If he does develop ketones again, it could become an emergency, which I know would be difficult to swing financially (it is for most people), and could quite possibly cause you to face the decision that brought you here for help.
i wish you guys the best!
BJM
Very Active Member
You may have a diet (& health) controlled diabetic. In other words, susceptible to diabetes if infection or dry food are present.
Because aging causes slow deterioration in the body, I would suggest continuing to test daily this week, and then maybe weekly if he stays below 150, and then perhaps monthly after you're reasonably sure he is stable at good numbers.
Keep an eye on the litterbox and if you ever see lakes of wet litter, or a huge increase in appetite, glucose test and see the vet, even if the glucose is low, as those are not normal. Lakes of wet litter can be renal disease and huge appetite increase can be thyroid disease. Keeping track of the 5 Ps - purring, playing, preening (grooming), peeing and pooping - give you data about the health of your cat. An attentive owner can spot problems more quickly and possible intervene to control, reduce or eliminate the condition.
Because aging causes slow deterioration in the body, I would suggest continuing to test daily this week, and then maybe weekly if he stays below 150, and then perhaps monthly after you're reasonably sure he is stable at good numbers.
Keep an eye on the litterbox and if you ever see lakes of wet litter, or a huge increase in appetite, glucose test and see the vet, even if the glucose is low, as those are not normal. Lakes of wet litter can be renal disease and huge appetite increase can be thyroid disease. Keeping track of the 5 Ps - purring, playing, preening (grooming), peeing and pooping - give you data about the health of your cat. An attentive owner can spot problems more quickly and possible intervene to control, reduce or eliminate the condition.
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