Diabities and Animia

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Olga said:
He checked everything, liver, kidney and pancreatitis.
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Did your vet confirm that he had run a Spec fPL test for pancreatitis? Or a SNAP fPL test?

Did your vet do an ultrasound scan of the internal organs including the liver and pancreas?


Mogs
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Olga said:
Hey Guys, so I am picking up my boy today. I haven't got specific instructions for now how to give him insulin and how much. Only said twice a day after feeding. One thing she told me that I will need to come back in a week and check his blood for glucose. She said i won't have to do it myself...does that sound right? Also for Animia only option he has is give him more iron. He checked everything, liver, kidney and pancreatitis. Everything is Good, no cancer or parasites. It preaty much leaves problem with his immune system.
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His liver needs some support. Your vet is missing something. A 4 year old cat does not have anemia or liver values that high without there being an issue somewhere. My kitty’s liver values were half that and my vet took action.

Can you speak to your vet about putting him on milk thistle supplement?
 
Critter Mom said:
Did your vet confirm that he had run a Spec fPL test for pancreatitis? Or a SNAP fPL test?

Did your vet do an ultrasound scan of the internal organs including the liver and pancreas?


Mogs
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I am not sure about those tests, i will ask when I pick him up, i did ask to do ultrasound, he said everything looked good, no internal problems. So confused.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
His liver needs some support. Your vet is missing something. A 4 year old cat does not have anemia or liver values that high without there being an issue somewhere. My kitty’s liver values were half that and my vet took action.

Can you speak to your vet about putting him on milk thistle supplement?
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Thank you a lot for helping me out. When I spoke with him over the phone, he said all test came back negative and the reason behind high liver cells( forgive me here if I will get to confused) becouse of the glucose beeing high and diabities not treated, liver started to produce some kinda chemical( I forgot the name, English is not my native language so I have a hard time with terminology), to supplement glucose.
 
Olga said:
Hey Guys, so I am picking up my boy today. I haven't got specific instructions for now how to give him insulin and how much. Only said twice a day after feeding. One thing she told me that I will need to come back in a week and check his blood for glucose. She said i won't have to do it myself...does that sound right?
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What insulin did he said you'll be using? Shooting twice a day is how is usually done

A lot of vets have this approach where they say that the owner does not need to test at home but I (and I dare to say everyone else in this forum) think it is very risky to handle things that way since you will be shooting insulin into his system and doing so with out knowing his levels of blood glucose before shooting and learning how he reacts every cat is different

Some Vets think (mine included) think that testing at home is stressful for the owner and tend to say not to test but I discovered that was far more stressful to shoot with out knowing and to look at him and not being sure if he's too low or too high so I certainly recommend that you consider home testing regardless of what your vet thinks plus doing the curves at home is way cheaper
 
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
What insulin did he said you'll be using? Shooting twice a day is how is usually done

A lot of vets have this approach where they say that the owner does not need to test at home but I (and I dare to say everyone else in this forum) think it is very risky to handle things that way since you will be shooting insulin into his system and doing so with out knowing his levels of blood glucose before shooting and learning how he reacts every cat is different

Some Vets think (mine included) think that testing at home is stressful for the owner and tend to say not to test but I discovered that was far more stressful to shoot with out knowing and to look at him and not being sure if he's too low or too high so I certainly recommend that you consider home testing regardless of what your vet thinks plus doing the curves at home is way cheaper
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So he prescribed Humulin N NPH U-100 2 units.
 
We finnaly got settled home. He looks very tired and angry. I used to leave dry food for him all the time so now he will has to get used to new schedule. Him and my other girl. That be a chalange. But we make it. I also never knew how much insulin cost...
 
Sharon14 said:
Glad he’s home! Have you had a chance to look at the info I linked on home testing?
Here’s some info on your insulin
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-novolin-humulin-nph.186097/
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Oh yes I did!I watched them all and read the link. I am defenetly considering doing home testing, one thing,he did not let nurse do it through his ear, but he didn't mind too much through the paw. Nurse also exp lain to me that he was in a stage on DKA when I rushed him in. Even though his numbers were not that extremely high compare to some other fluffs, that was enough for him. That's why his liver test was high also, but ultrasound didn't show anything abnormal. They will do second blood work in 30.
 
Olga said:
Nurse also exp lain to me that he was in a stage on DKA when I rushed him in.
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Erm ... that's extremely important information. They should have told you that much sooner.

Given that we now know Wenz is a ketone-prone kitty, it's even more important for you to test him regularly for ketones at home. (Ketone-prone kitties are a little more vulnerable to developing ketosis or DKA in the future so it's a wise precaution to take.) Here's some info for you:

Are you testing your cat for ketones?

Tips for collecting urine samples

You can test urine for ketones using human urine reagent strips (e.g. Ketostix).


Mogs
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Olga said:
Nurse also exp lain to me that he was in a stage on DKA w
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Very important to know!!

You can buy urine ketone test strips in a human pharmacy. Here are some ways to get urine for a test:
  • put the end of the test strip right in his urine stream as he's peeing
  • slip a shallow, long handled spoon under his backside to catch a little pee - you don't need much
  • put a double layer of plastic wrap over his favourite part of the litter box and poke some depressions in it too catch pee.
Most test strips have to be dipped and allowed to develop for 15 seconds before viewing the colour change in very good light.
 
Yes, please pick up the ketone test strips. You can also get a human glucose meter at the pharmacy so you can start testing him. What are you feeding Wenz? It’s important that he eat so you can give the insulin.
 
Critter Mom said:
Erm ... that's extremely important information. They should have told you that much sooner.

Given that we now know Wenz is a ketone-prone kitty, it's even more important for you to test him regularly for ketones at home. (Ketone-prone kitties are a little more vulnerable to developing ketosis or DKA in the future so it's a wise precaution to take.) Here's some info for you:

Are you testing your cat for ketones?

Tips for collecting urine samples

You can test urine for ketones using human urine reagent strips (e.g. Ketostix).


Mogs
.
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In all honesty, they most likely did say It, but i don't always cutch unusual words for me, simply because I am Russian. Lol I do speak Well, but not always perfect understand. Specialy terminology. That's why i took of from work to pick Wenzy up and actually had a chance one on one to go over with everything with nurse( I spoke with a doctor earlier before pick up). But thanks to her patience and hour and a half of her time. I got a better picture now. I wouldn't understand half of this stuff if you would tell me in it Russian. But also thanks for all yours advises and what to.ask my vet I actually starting to see things better and understand.
 
Sharon14 said:
Yes, please pick up the ketone test strips. You can also get a human glucose meter at the pharmacy so you can start testing him. What are you feeding Wenz? It’s important that he eat so you can give the insulin.
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So Vet told me, feed him only twice a day, before the shot. I ordered diabetic Purina DM food...it is on it way.geez thag stuff is expensive. But I also picked up chicke liver to add more iron to his diet to get his RBC up. I was always giving him duly supplements, now I be giving it to him twice a day. They also told me no snake or free feeding...that would be hard since he so used to food be available...plus I have another kitty
 
His usual food was Blue wilderness high protein grain free. He is also allergic to grain.
 
Most of us feed several small meals a day, not just twice a day even though vets often say that. If your cat has had DKA he needs calories, water and enough insulin to prevent ketone formation. We hope you will test Wenz's blood glucose at home. What insulin is he on?
 
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Is the Purina dm canned or dry? A canned food is best, and it’s good to add a little water to it to help with hydration. You don’t need to buy the expensive vet food either, there are many grocery store brands that are low carb and fine to feed to Wenz. I’ve never used Humulin N, but It’s important that he eat before you give the insulin and most of us feed small snacks during the day
@Tanya and Ducia speaks Russian
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Most of us feed several small meals a day, not just twice a day even though vets of say that. If your cat has had DKA he needs calories, water and enough insulin to prevent ketone formation. We hope you will test Wenz's blood glucose at home. What insulin is he on?
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Humilia N NPH U-100. He defenetly needs calories...he lost a lot of weight. I was thinking of buying high valley supplement on chewy.com
 
Sharon14 said:
Is the Purina dm canned or dry? A canned food is best, and it’s good to add a little water to it to help with hydration. You don’t need to buy the expensive vet food either, there are many grocery store brands that are low carb and fine to feed to Wenz. I’ve never used Humulin N, but It’s important that he eat before you give the insulin and most of us feed small snacks during the day
@Tanya and Ducia speaks Russian
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I got bought, wet and dry food. What is consider good amount of carb? I am shooting to pharmacy right now. See if I can pick up ur in strips and that thing to test blood
 
Olga said:
I got bought, wet and dry food. What is consider good amount of carb? I am shooting to pharmacy right now. See if I can pick up ur in strips and that thing to test blood
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It's best to keep carbs under 10%. However, a thin kitty who has had DKA sometimes does better with slightly higher carbs so that a high enough insulin dose can be given.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
It's best to keep carbs under 10%. However, a thin kitty who has had DKA sometimes does better with slightly higher carbs so that a high enough insulin dose can be given.
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He prescribed 2 units. If i read all the I do from links correctly thats treaty high
 
So do I just buy regular human glucometr and that's It? Do i need something else?
 
Olga said:
So do I just buy regular human glucometr and that's It? Do i need something else?
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Ask the pharmacist for a human glucose meter that gives a reading with a very small blood drop. You need to buy test strips for the meter and we would suggest a supply of 100 strips for now. You need lancets to poke your kitty's ear for the BG test. It will be easier if the lancets are 26 to 28 gauge (a bit thicker than the 30 or 31 gauge that come with most meters.)
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Ask the pharmacist for a human glucose meter that gives a reading with a very small blood drop. You need to buy test strips for the meter and we would suggest a supply of 100 strips for now. You need lancets to poke your kitty's ear for the BG test. It will be easier if the lancets are 26 to 28 gauge (a bit thicker than the 30 or 31 gauge that come with most meters.)
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Awsome. At the vet he hated be tested in the ear, he was ok with paw. Thanks to Shanon I saw how people do it with ear...not sure about paw
 
Alright, preaty sure I read somewhere here that someone suggested Freestyle brand so I got that. And 28lancest. So you feed a kitty hour before insulin, than test blood before injection, is that correct?
 
Test first, then feed, wait 20-30 min then give the shot. Then try to get a test about 2-3 hours after the shot if you can
 
Olga said:
Alright, preaty sure I read somewhere here that someone suggested Freestyle brand so I got that. And 28lancest. So you feed a kitty hour before insulin, than test blood before injection, is that correct?
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Frestyle Lite meters are used by many here. There are other Freestyle models too.

Here's the basic testing routine:
  1. test every day AM and PM before feeding and injecting (no food at least 2 hours before) to see if the planned dose is safe
  2. test at least once near mid cycle or at bedtime daily to see how low the BG goes
  3. do extra tests on days off to fill in the response picture
  4. if indicated by consistently high numbers on your SS, increase the dose by no more than 0.25 u at a time so you don't accidentally go right past a good dose
  5. post here for advice whenever you're confused or unsure of what to do.
We can help you much better if you use the spreadsheet:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
 
Olga said:
So you feed a kitty hour before insulin, than test blood before injection, is that correct?
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Almost:

1. Withhold food for 2 hours prior to preshot test.
2. Do preshot BG test.
3. Feed and wait c. 60 minutes. (Humulin N can hit hard and fast in early hours after insulin dose so this delay allows time for carbs to get into bloodstream ready for the insulin to get to work on.)
4. Give insulin dose.

Test at +2 hrs after insulin to get a possible early warning of what may happen next (if lower than PS test monitor more closely for next few hours).
Test at +3 and then +4 hrs after insulin to try to catch lowest BG for cycle (aka the nadir).


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
Almost:

1. Withhold food for 2 hours prior to preshot test.
2. Do preshot BG test.
3. Feed and wait c. 60 minutes. (Humulin N can hit hard and fast in early hours after insulin dose so this delay allows time for carbs to get into bloodstream ready for the insulin to get to work on.)
4. Give insulin dose.

Test at +2 hrs after insulin to get a possible early warning of what may happen next (if lower than PS test monitor more closely for next few hours).
Test at +3 and then +4 hrs after insulin to try to catch lowest BG for cycle (aka the nadir).


Mogs
.
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Is there a **** where you could compare human resolts to a pet?...the glucometr will show human numbers,right?
 
Olga said:
Is there a **** where you could compare human resolts to a pet?...the glucometr will show human numbers,right?
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The human meter will work well to tell you if BG is too high, OK or too low. The important thing to know is that a BG of 50 on a human meter is a warning that it's getting too low and you should give a bit of food to keep it from falling more.

This is the info guide for your insulin:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-novolin-humulin-nph.186097/
 
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Kris & Teasel said:
The human meter will work well to tell you if BG is to high, OK or too low. The important thing to know is that a BG of 50 on a human meter is a warning that it's getting too low and you should give a bit of food to keep it from falling more.

This is the info guide for your insulin:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-novolin-humulin-nph.186097/
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Thanks. I opened up a package and there were no strip wich goes inside the metter, where you put a blood sample on. They already closed now so.i have to wait till tomorow
 
Ugh! In the meantime, get to know the meter and how it works. Also start rubbing Wenz on his foot and/or ear and then give him a little treat or a cuddle so when you’re ready to do the test he’s used to it. You could also set up the spreadsheet, like Kris mentioned. If you need help with that let us know and someone will do it for you.
 
Yes, i will defenetly do that. I gonna print it out. It is missing this...so stupid.so mad
Sharon14 said:
Ugh! In the meantime, get to know the meter and how it works. Also start rubbing Wenz on his foot and/or ear and then give him a little treat or a cuddle so when you’re ready to do the test he’s used to it. You could also set up the spreadsheet, like Kris mentioned. If you need help with that let us know and someone will do it for you.
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Well...his appetite wasnt great...he didn't eat much. So i got scared giving him full 2 units, so I just gave him 1.25...i wish pharmacy didn't screw me up with a meter. Despite what my vet told me I left a little bit of food out. Hopefully I am not killing my cat. But he lost too much weight as it is.
 
If your cat is underweight then the general guideline is not to restrict food for a diabetic cat until its weight returns to normal, with the exception of the 2 hours before each preshot blood glucose test (to make sure it's safe to give the next dose).

Not sure about how the liver and anaemia issues might complicate things.

I very much recommend that you give your vet a quick call to explain that Wenz's appetite is slow and confirm what to do about insulin dose? It's really important that a cat on Humulin N eats a fair amount before the insulin dose is given. Also, because Wenz has a history of DKA it's very, very important that he does get insulin regularly - ETA: and enough food! (Note: a reduced dose is better than no insulin at all.) Perhaps your vet could prescribe an appetite stimulant for Wenz? Also, please read the following page to see whether Wenz is showing any signs of nausea when he tries to eat (very common problem in cats recovering from DKA):

Nausea and appetite problems - symptoms and treatments

Let your vet know about any nausea symptoms. Generic ondansetron and Cerenia are very good anti-nausea treatments for cats. If Wenz is suffering from nausea then these medications could help him to eat a lot better (and the appetite stimulant is better given AFTER anti-nausea med).


Mogs
.
 
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Critter Mom said:
If your cat is underweight then the general guideline is not to restrict food for a diabetic cat until its weight returns to normal, with the exception of the 2 hours before each preshot blood glucose test (to make sure it's safe to give the next dose).

Not sure about how the liver and anaemia issues might complicate things.

I very much recommend that you give your vet a quick call to explain that Wenz's appetite is slow and confirm what to do about insulin dose? It's really important that a cat on Humulin N eats a fair amount before the insulin dose is given. Also, because Wenz has a history of DKA it's very, very important that he does get insulin regularly. (Note: a reduced dose is better than no insulin at all.) Perhaps your vet could prescribe an appetite stimulant for Wenz? Also, please read the following page to see whether Wenz is showing any signs of nausea when he tries to eat (very common problem in cats recovering from DKA):

Nausea and appetite problems - symptoms and treatments

Let your vet know about any nausea symptoms. Generic ondansetron and Cerenia are very good anti-nausea treatments for cats. If Wenz is suffering from nausea then these medications could help him to eat a lot better (and the appetite stimulant is better given AFTER anti-nausea med).


Mogs
.
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Alright, did everything like you suggested. He lowered dose to 1 unit. Becouse his RBC are still low and sugar obviously hasn't been regulated it gonna be hard to get him to eat a good amount of food. He did suggested appetite boosters. On a good thing He ate today a lit more than last night and actually was really interested in it.( for a minute maybe) I also tryed to use a syringe, it didn't work to well for me. Not even becouse of him,maybe I didn't put enough water. Also trying to boost his iron, besides the supplement I baked chicken liver and he actually went for it. So i guess baby steps
 
Hi Olga,

Glad to hear you got help from the vet. :)

Olga said:
He lowered dose to 1 unit.
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Be sure to check Wenz's pee daily for ketones. Have you managed to get a blood glucose meter yet, Olga?

Olga said:
[The vet] did suggested appetite boosters.
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It's even more vital for a ketone-prone kitty to get enough food and insulin than yer average feline diabetic so as to ensure they don't start producing ketones again and having a relapse.

If you're getting a prescription for an appetite stimulant I'd also push the vet to prescribe an anti-nausea medication, as it is frequently the case that nausea causes the poor appetite (especially in kitties recovering from DKA) and if you can control the nausea the appetite stimulant is sometimes not needed at all. With an appetite stimulant used on its own it's not as effective if the cat is queasy, and it may not work at all. If it does, then it could potentially lead to food aversions (we wouldn't like to feel compelled to eat if we were nauseated! ;) ).

Olga said:
He ate today a lit more than last night and actually was really interested in it.( for a minute maybe)
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If he looks keen to eat, tries to eat (or licks at the food) and then gives up that can be a sign of nausea. Keep an eye out for this sort of behaviour - especially if it's accompanied by marked lip licking behaviour after the attempt to eat.

Olga said:
I baked chicken liver and he actually went for it. So i guess baby steps
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This is good news. And every little bit helps, Olga. :bighug:

Keeping fingers and paws crossed for Wenz to continue making a nice steady recovery.


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
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Thank you a lot. I haven't manage to test his ur in, becouse I have hard time separating litters. I live in 1 bedroom apartment and got 2 kitties. I have 2 jobs and basicly rarely home. My husband trying to help but he works 12-13 hour shifts too. I got a meter last night, what I didn't realize that strips for it come seperat.i thought they just forgot to put them in...and they cost **** lot of money.lol but I just got them:)
 
Hi Olga,
Добро Пожаловать на Форум!
I am sorry that your kitty ( I didn't get his/her name, sorry) is sick but this is the BEST place to get help.
My cat Ducia (Дуся) had anemia, DKA and not regulated BG and many other things and we were treating it all simultaneously. I cannot remember at the moment what type of anemia Ducia had but it was resolved by eating well, hydration, rest and time - no steroids were needed. I, in general, keep away from steroids unless it is absolutely necessary - and confirmed so by tests/ 2nd opinion, but it's me. I think vets and human MDs Rx-ing very strong meds too easily...

I want to second the suggestions given above - it is important and he has enough food and good dose of insulin otherwise you are risking ketone development and more often than not it's downhill from there. The earlier the stage of ketones the easier - and significantly cheaper - it is to treat (think $1G v. $3 or 4 G) . I hope your "pee ambush is successful" and that he is ketone free. Ducia had DKA in Feb March 2017 - I still test her urine for ketones daily.

Another I thing I support strongly is that you need to have at home anti nausea med, an appetite stimulant and liver supplement Milk Thisle based. Ducia had her 10 days course of Denamarin liver supplement and it helped a lot with her VERY elevated liver values at the time. Another clinic suggested Silymarin. Ask your vet.

I have a question - did your vet mentioned anything about him being dehydrated?

Very best of luck you and your sugar baby!
 
Tanya and Ducia said:
Hi Olga,
Добро Пожаловать на Форум!
I am sorry that your kitty ( I didn't get his/her name, sorry) is sick but this is the BEST place to get help.
My cat Ducia (Дуся) had anemia, DKA and not regulated BG and many other things and we were treating it all simultaneously. I cannot remember at the moment what type of anemia Ducia had but it was resolved by eating well, hydration, rest and time - no steroids were needed. I, in general, keep away from steroids unless it is absolutely necessary - and confirmed so by tests/ 2nd opinion, but it's me. I think vets and human MDs Rx-ing very strong meds too easily...

I want to second the suggestions given above - it is important and he has enough food and good dose of insulin otherwise you are risking ketone development and more often than not it's downhill from there. The earlier the stage of ketones the easier - and significantly cheaper - it is to treat (think $1G v. $3 or 4 G) . I hope your "pee ambush is successful" and that he is ketone free. Ducia had DKA in Feb March 2017 - I still test her urine for ketones daily.

Another I thing I support strongly is that you need to have at home anti nausea med, an appetite stimulant and liver supplement Milk Thisle based. Ducia had her 10 days course of Denamarin liver supplement and it helped a lot with her VERY elevated liver values at the time. Another clinic suggested Silymarin. Ask your vet.

I have a question - did your vet mentioned anything about him being dehydrated?

Very best of luck you and your sugar baby!
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Здравствуйте Таня he is Wenz. My husband pick the name, he is German. Well, the name is German. Yes, he was very dehydrated! I am keeping an eye now how much he drinks, i just saw him using a bathroom and i missed it.lol is Denamarin prescription medication?
I am trying to motivate him eat more, i did use a syringe just to give me more nutrion in. I belibe he does have nausia...he got the simptoms:(
 
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