Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting better

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

I've posted a new picture of Shane on my Facebook wall and here is his latest update--visited him tonight. I also sent the photo to Venita so maybe she'll post it on the DCIN blog she did for Shane.

PDATE ON SHANE- FRIDAY 23 DEC -8pm: Here is Shane tonight. It was pretty impossible to get even this one picture because he was moving around so much--meowing and wanting to walk on the floor and jump off the table! Back to normal scaredy-cat behavior. But he was purring and sweet and very strong, despite being so darn skinny. His eyes look amazing--sooooo much better. He had a little rough ridged area on his right eyelid before but that seems to be totally gone now. His fur was shinier and he just needs to put on about 7 pounds and he'll be fine! One of the vet techs told me that everytime she comes in he rubs against his cage and is so sweet and a joy for them to have there. He is bone thin, though. Gotten fatten this little guy up. The insulin should help. Dr G said I could bring him home on Monday.
 
Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

Hi, Martica ~

Shane's so very precious. He's looking good. I know you'll be so glad, Martica, to get your little guy home on Monday. I'm sure he'll start putting on the pounds once you get his diabetes regulated with insulin and continue to feed him well. That darling little guy will thrive under your loving care. He's already starting to. Thank you for loving Shane right from the beginning, Martica...beautiful!

Take care,
Eva
 
Re: Diabetic kitty about to die in NYC shelter--pls help ass

I don't do Facebook, either.

Sure would like to see some pictures here.

So happy Shane has been rescued for Christmas !!!
 
Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Martic, he looks fantastic compared to his original picture. I do not understand why he cannot come home today......no one is going to be there all day Sunday except to do meds whereas he could spend all day with you if he was allowed to go home.
 
Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

He's looking so much better, he'll be gorgeous with some more weight on him. I sure hope you get to bring him home soon
 
Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

HUGS Shane! U iz lookin' MUCH bedder - not wonderful yet but SO much bedder! MamaBean will get you all well again!

HUGS Martica!!!
 
Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Thanks so much for adding Shanes picture here. My computer wont load fb so it's good to see Shane here.
 
Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Well thought things were getting better but now a new concern. Please everyone weigh in on the scenario tonite. Here is the scenario, please let me know if I am misinterpreting the situation--and how Lantus works. This is an excerpt from a letter I wrote to the rescue group head explaining the situation

________

I was at the vet's. I"m home and now I'm even more concerned. I tried to take Shane home and they wouldn't let me without the head of the rescue group's permission (because at the moment I"m only technically the foster). And she is traveling, tried voicemail and text but didn't get a reply in the time I had (about 5 minutes because they were closing) to hear from her. Here is the note I just wrote

______________________________________________________________________________________
I was at the vet's for nearly 4 hours tonight, waiting because the vet had told me Friday night I could take Shane hoome on Monday.

They started the new insulin on Friday night (3 days ago). I gave the vet the research (academic journal articles) and the dosing protocol that was recommended by a vet association, and asked him to start with a conservative dose-- 0.5 unit BID. I told him (and the literature said, too) that you must stick to this dose for 3 days before increasing because there is also an overlap effect that occurs wiith this long dose and specific insulin. ON Friday night he was very interested in the studies I brought him, they were from past 2 years and said he didn't know about them (they were comparing cats on PZ--his kind of insulin, to Lantus--the kind I want to use). Cats are more likely to go into remission with the Lantus.

Anyway, without boring you with too many details. Tonight when I finally was able to see him, he told me that Shane' numbers had been super high (blood glucose) but they'd increased the dose 2-3 times and this is only a 6 lb. cat ( I weighed hiim tonight) This is way too much.

He said they brought the numbers down to the 300s (high but kind of ok) (375 at 2pm today) and he said they wanted to regulate a bit more before letting him go home. I reluctantly said ok, although at this stage, the regulating is a nuanced procedure and going higher with the insulin dose is not the answer.

Anyway, then i was able to visit with Shane and the vet tech came and took his bg. IT was 'hi' which means super high--like 600s or higher--bad. So the triple dose was the not answer, this proved it.

Then I found out that they were ONLY taking blood glucose at 8am 2pm and 8pm...then nothing at 2am because no one is there overnight...then 8am again. So basically they are completely missing the nadir. They should be doing curves--which are BG readings every 2 or 3 hours.

Also, I found out that they were ONLY feeding him at the shot time--so 8am and 8pm...so when he's reaching his lowest BG level--his nadir--he is getting NO food. And if he's high when they shoot the insulin and then they feed him it shoots him even higher and the insulin takes 4 hours or more to do anything...and by that point it's super high--and then he's starved because he gets no food, and so chances are he's going into hypoglycemia--and bouncing way back up again--this is called the Somogyi effect.

When the vet first told me that he had gone HI in the BGs, I said it sounds like a somogyi effect, he said no I dont think so. But since they are ONLY blood testing 1 time during the 12 hour insulin phase, and NONE at the other over-night phase--he has NO WAY of knowing.

When I realized during the visiting period with Shane (which was a while later after meeting with the vet) what they were doing I decided I wanted to take him home. He was high, they were about to feed him and give him too much insulin, then leave him alone all night. The one girl said that Id have to get your permission and sign that against-medical-advice waiver and I said fine. We couldn't reach you and they finally said well we're closing we can't wait (meanwhile it was 8:45 pm I'd been there since 5pm). The vet was in surgery at this point so I could not speak to him.

So, anyway, I had to leave and I am very worried about Shane. They do not know how to handle this insulin, they are treating it like the short acting kind, which I specifically gave them the info not to. I was being diplomatic and everything but I'm very very concerned and want to take him home. They are not monitoring him in the way they should nor feeding nor dosing they way they should. Most vets do not know the nuances of the daily care of treating diabetes. As long as he doesn't have ketones, he's out of harm.

anyway, I guess i need your permission to take him tomorrow but I really do not want to leave him another night. Unfortunately I work, teaching a fitness class until 8:30pm tomorrow, so unless I can get him early in the day, around lunchtime, I'm not sure I can collect him at night since I think they close at 6 or 7 on Tues?

could you please email or call giving me permssion to get him tomorrow?

I'm very worried about him tonight,, they are giving him way too much insulin. They didn't give the first dose a chance and didn't feed him at the right time.

anyway, despite that he's looking good although he was very agitated tonight, which is what can happen when BG is high, they feel bad. But he was still purring.
______________________________________

now I"m worried about him all night.

PS. the head of the rescue group has now given me permission to collect him tomorrow; also I emailed the vet--not sure if he check's emails though--explaining a little of the story...
 
Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

I will be praying for both of you today..
 
Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Oh, Martica...you've got to get Shane out of there right away! That vet and his techs just don't understand how Lantus works. I'm very, very worried (as I know you are) that they'll overdose Shane and cause a hypo when there's no one around to help him. PLEASE take him home as soon as you possibly can, Martica. And that sweet furguy needs to eat...lots of mini-meals throughout the day. It's quite likely that some of those bg highs are from rebound hyperglycemia caused by too much insulin. As you've mentioned, Lantus doses should be held for several days, not increased the way that vet's doing it.

Gosh, I'm so worried about both of you now, Martica. Please keep in touch to let us know when you can take Shane home where you can give him much better and safer care.

Eva
 
Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Hi Eva
Thanks for your response. Part of what I need is reassurance that I'm am thinking it's wrong and that I'm correct in doing so--it's still nervewracking to go against what a vet says....the good news is that I got the news from the head of the rescue group that I could take him out, she gave her permission, and she apparently left a message for them late last night to that effect. But I was worried about him all night, woke up smack dab at 3am worrying, and that would be right about the time he'd be hypoing if he was. So hopefully that wasn't a premonition or anything.

I haven't done the insulin thing for over a year now since Fred died so a little scary to trust my own judgement again.

So next concern, hopefully he's ok and I can get him at lunch--is that I need to figure out what to do for his next dose tonight. Hopefully they did NOT raise the dose even more last night, but anyway, consideirng that he is on up to 2 units Lantus BID now...should I bring him back to 1/2 U or what? anyway, gotta go to work but will report back later.

thanks again for all your help
martica
 
Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Also, there is a diabetic kitty that needs a temporary foster for 3 weeks--in NYC area, or sourrounding. If anyone can do it let me know and I"ll pass on the info. I told them to contact Venita and also post here. I think I'm overwhelmed with what I'm about to take on to deal with another.
 
Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Hoping you can get Shane today - he looks so much better. I'll bet with the Lantus you can get him into remission in no time like I did with Cedric. I bought an autofeeder for Cedric so that he gets 4 small meals a day. the stray I rescued has one 2 and is on the same schedule (although he apparently told cjleo that he thinks Cedric gets better food - they get the same stuff). cedric went into remission after a month on Lantus.

Good luck, keep us posted and God bless you!
 
Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Martica, I'm so relieved that you'll be taking Shane home today. It would be really helpful to know what kind of blood glucose readings the vet and his techs were getting before starting Lantus. If the vet won't give that information to you, Martica, maybe the head of the rescue group can obtain Shane's blood glucose readings prior to starting Lantus. From what I recall, you mentioned some fairly normal, or at least not extremely high, numbers. If that's the case, it makes me think even more that Shane's current highs could be caused by Lantus overdosing.

For a cat that's had DKA as Shane has, you do need to be sure that you're giving sufficient Lantus. What is the current dose that the vet has Shane on? Maybe more experienced Lantus users could suggest a new starting dose for Shane, Martica.

Hang in there,
Eva

P.S. Could the head of the rescue group get copies of all of Shane's medical records for you? Heck, you're paying for the treatment Shane's received, so you should have that information.
 
Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

oh my goodness, what an awful surprise. The vet upped the dose to 2.5 U this morning. I was just posting on the Lantus tight regulation board an hour ago just to get some feedback on dosing the next shot, and I happened to be taking all the numbers down and took a +6.5 and discovered--WHOA--a hypo. Unbelievable... He was 39. I fi I had not got him from the vet they would have seen his +4 number, 200 something and thought they were doing the right thing--and they werne't feeding him for the next 12 hours!!!!!! He was still 39 even though I'd given him some chicken!

I then fed him some BG, nearly a whole 5 oz can and he was 35 at 45 minutes later. I've now given him some Nutrical and a can of Solstice pumpkin and chicken which is higher in carbs I think--could not find it on Binky's chart but it has tapioca starch as an ingredient, the gravy, I think, and looks like he's slurped up a lot of the gravy. I'm doing a BG shortly, but here is the early post with earlier number. Wow, talk about a welcome back into caring for a diabetic kitty.

here are his numbers since 12/21 (past 6 days) (I wasn't given records prior to that)

Wed-21 Dec:
+0 8am BG 351 given 2U of ProZinc, fed low carb canned (good brands I brought or DM/they switched between them)
+6 2pm BG 96
+12 8pm BG 387 2U ProZinc, fed
- no food between say 8:30pm and 8am and no monitoring

Thu-22 Dec:
+12 8am - BG HI 2U ProZinc, fed
+3 11am- BG 483
+6 2pm- BG 131
+12 8pm- BG 399, 2U ProZinc, fed
- no food between say 8:30pm and 8am and no monitoring

Fri-23 Dec
+12 8am- BG 453, 2U ProZinc, fed
+6 2pm- BG 174
+12 8pm- BG 389 , 2U ProZinc, fed
- no food between say 8:30pm and 8am and no monitoring

Sat 24 Dec
+12 8am- BG 124 (says 'Amtrack was on 4' (not sure what that means), 1/2 U Lantus, fed
+6 2pm- BG 196
+12 8pm- BG HI 2U ProZinc (switched back), fed

Sun 25 Dec
+12 8am- BG HI, gave 1U Lantus, fed
+6 no montoring
+12 8pm- BG HI, gave 1.5U Lantus, fed

Mon 26 Dec
+12 8am- BG 346, gave 1.5U Lantus, fed
+6 2pm- BG 375
+12 8pm- BG HI, gave 2U Lantus, fed

Tues 27 Dec
+12 8am - BG 302, gave 2.5U Lantus, fed
+4 12pm- BG 214
+5 1pm- I gave him a few Halo live a littles chicken treats and a couple of small pieces of fresh chicken breast roasted
+6.5 2:30pm--HYPO BG 39--am feeding now--ate nearly a 5.5 oz can of BG quail and chicken
+7.25 3:15pm HYPO BG 35 gave some Nutrical plus Solstice pumpkin & chicken
 
Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

I am so glad he is in your care now !

Are you going to inform the vet of this development ?
 
Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Yes, I"m very very pissed. I gave him the academic literature supporting my wish to start low and give it a chance...and they ignored, and they did not listen to me about the feeding etc. Very very upsetting. I can't think about it now till his BGs are back up But I'm going to use this as an educational moment--and prepare a whole packet for them so they learn from it. Not that I have the time for that. I'm furious I have to say. I've ust wasted my entire day too, had so much work to catch up on. The irony is that I had to sign a WAIVER saying that I was taking the cat home AGAINST THE VET's ADVICE!! Like this kitty was safer with them! arrrggh.....and last night they wouldn't even let me taken him--assuming that he is safer in the vet ALONE all night with no food on a double dose. :cry:
 
Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Yes, I"m very very pissed. I gave him the academic literature supporting my wish to start low and give it a chance...and they ignored, and they did not listen to me about the feeding etc. Very very upsetting. I can't think about it now till his BGs are back up But I'm going to use this as an educational moment--and prepare a whole packet for them so they learn from it. Not that I have the time for that. I'm furious I have to say. I've ust wasted my entire day too, had so much work to catch up on. The irony is that I had to sign a WAIVER saying that I was taking the cat home AGAINST THE VET's ADVICE!! Like this kitty was safer with them! arrrggh.....and last night they wouldn't even let me taken him--assuming that he is safer in the vet ALONE all night with no food on a double dose. :cry:

ok good news

+8.25 4:15pm he is now 56...so he's gone up about 20 units in one hour...

phew. not out of the woods yet, but looking better.
 
Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Martica, I'm just so thankful that you stepped in to get Shane when you did today!!! And that this low bg number didn't happen when Shane was alone there overnight, although who knows how low that darling kitty went last night. OMG! My husband, Ken, and I have been so very worried about you and Shane all day, Martica.

That vet just shouldn't have agreed to start Shane on Lantus if he wasn't prepared to read the materials you gave him and to learn how to dose it properly. How irresponsible and scary!!!

I haven't been to the Lantus board yet, but I'm sure someone there is telling you to be sure to test Shane for ketones. I've come to love Shane as you and many others here have, too, Martica. I know that you'll do wonders for that precious kitty as he gets settled in with you and you get him regulated on Lantus. Bless your kind heart for loving and taking care of Shane!

Hugs,
Eva
 
Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Hi Eva,
You are so sweet thank you, and thank you all. This board really is such a great source of emotional support and knowledge! I really am indebted!

So here is the comment I left on the Lantus area thread. I don't know if I should consolidate to one, if so, not sure which one? The link to that one is this?

________________________________
Thank you all for all your comments and caring! This board really is the greatest.

OK, I had to leave and no one to watch him, but I put some Nutrical in his food and he actually was eating more of the Soltice when I left. Actually, it's Solstice, I spelled it wrong up above. I couldn't find it on any lists. But it has a bit of gravy so I figure that's more carby.

OK the good news:

7:30pm
*11 and he is 209 !!!!!! woo hoo! Of course, if the vet were taking this, he would see it be, oh, 250 in an hour and think--OH YES, 2.5 Units IS THE RIGHT DOSE. meanwhile, repeated hypos day after day.

OK, so he had very little carbs really. He pretty much ate 2 full cans of 5.5 oz low carb, high protein food, plus just a bit of NutriCal....so that is maybe the best scenario?

The big question...should I give him a 1/2 unit tonight at 8pm? or 9pm? or at all? sort of afraid to.....but then again, with a small dose it should be safe right? Not sure I understand how this past week might have affected his shed...or if he has one...can anyone enlighten me? I'm going to post this on the other thread too...maybe I should consolidate somehow.


thank you!!!!! feeling much better. He's purring. I have not checked for ketones. I have not seen him use the bathroom yet. Oh, is that meter that Sienne mentioned the Precision Xtra, does that do BG AND ketones in the blood? I guess if so I should just totally switch to that then (even though I've just spent $150 on test strips. I'm behind on meter technology, still using my old OTU.

are we out of the woods? should I feel safe? I will continue to monitor but sounds like things ok...he is still occasionally nibbling on the remnants of his food. I think he's pleased because they were literally starving him at the vet. He appears to have lost weight there--if the shelter weighing was correct. They had him at 7.2 lbs. After 10 days of the vet he was 6.5 last night.

OH, and when I came home, Shane had escaped from my office (it's a sliding door, no way to lock in from the outside) and he was mingling with my cats--one of them was hissing. I was trying to separate them. Might be a lost cause, there's a big desire to see what's on the other side of the door for all of them.
________________________________
 
Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Good Morning, Martica and Shane ~

Hope today is starting out a bit easier for the two of you, Martica. I know you're getting some good advice on the Lantus board. You're going to wear yourself out trying to post about Shane on both boards when you already have your hands full taking care of that dear little guy. Since getting some Lantus dosing advice/support is your priority for Shane now and you'll likely be posting daily on the Lantus TR board, maybe you can just post the link to your Lantus board discussion thread here. That way, anyone following what's happening with you and Shane (and there are many of us) can read your Lantus board postings.

I believe you've mentioned that you have a One Touch meter that you've already bought new strips for. That's a good meter, Martica, so I'd stick with it even if you do buy one of the ketone testing meters, too. My husband and I have a Precision Xtra meter that we use only for ketone testing. There's also a less expensive meter, the Nova Max, which tests both glucose and ketones. American Diabetes Wholesale has a pretty good deal on a Nova Max kit:
http://www.americandiabeteswholesale.com/product/nova-max-plus-glucose-ketone-meter-kit_3400.htm
And CVS Pharmacy has Nova Max ketone test strips for one of the cheaper prices I've seen: http://www.cvs.com/CVSApp/catalog/s...kuId=832606&productId=832606&_requestid=10285

Some members are having trouble pushing the Nova Max ketone strips into the meter, so you might ask about that here first. Several members are using it successfully though and can help with it. Of course, the urine ketone strips are the least expensive if you're able to test Shane for ketones that way.

What a harrowing, but beautiful, ride you've been on with darling Shane, Martica! Thanks for taking us all along with you.

Wishing you and Shane a great day,
Eva

P.S. "OH, and when I came home, Shane had escaped from my office (it's a sliding door, no way to lock in from the outside) and he was mingling with my cats--one of them was hissing. I was trying to separate them. Might be a lost cause, there's a big desire to see what's on the other side of the door for all of them." -- I LOVE how curious and active little Shane is! And your other kitties, too.
 
Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

thanks eva for that info. Actually last night I went on ebay and got a precision ultra meter for $16 plus postage. Figured might as well. I didn't get the ketone strips for it yet though. I still have not been able to catch him peeing and he has a little worse diarrhea. He's now in hiding and I can't find him. At least I can get some work done, but he's due for an ear test pretty soon so I can see if he got anything at all and if the 0.25 did get in if it's going to make a difference at all. I guess he must be feeling bad too and that's explaining his growling hissing behavior, or maybe it's just the other cats Who knows, you'd think he'd be thrilled to be out of the shelter and the vet cages!

OK, so yes, I'll just go ahead and post on the Lantus thread--link in comment just above (thank you eva)

thank you all and a million thanks too to Venita who's been such a godsend. Let's hope things get easier!
 
Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Hi, Martica ~

Been thinking about you and Sebastian lately and wondering how everything's going. If you stop in, we'd all love to hear how you two are doing now.

Take care,
Eva
 
Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Just came across my old thread from last year. Sebastian (Shane) is doing fantastic. He is now 12 lbs. He doubled his body weight. He is being regulated on 0.25U Lantus only once a day. I am not tightly regulating him because I just can't deal with it right now, but he's staying int he 200s one one shot a day.

The chronic diarrhea he had from Dec-March is totally controlled by giving him a little bit of raw with his canned regular low carb meals.

He just had a long-put-off dental this week--had 3 awful teeth pulled. I'm hoping with paws crossed that we get even lower numbers as a result, he def. had tooth resorption and chronic infection.

He's happy, purring a lot, bullying my other cats a bit, but that is getting better. More importantly, he wasn't murdered by the shelter, and he is now getting experience that humans are kind and loving--not the piece of sh** owners who left him to wither and die untreated. He still gets a little scared when I hold him. But he is very affectionate and must be with me at my side at all times. Things are good with him. He is learning to trust again.

Thanks for all the support last year, I really needed it. I never intended to get a new diabetic kitty after Fred night so soon (1 year later) but once you have the skills and knowhow in helping these kitties it's probably morally wrong not to use them!
 
Re: Diabetic kitty in NYC shelter--Updates below, getting be

Wonderful news!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top