Diabetic kitty and very unhealthy coat. Help?

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kittycat88

Member Since 2013
My cat was diagnosed with diabetes the end of November 2012 after I took him to the vet due to excessive drinking and urination. His sugar was 28.8. The vet put him on caninsulin- first 2 units BID and then doubled to 4 units BID. After the 4 units I took him back to the vet to get his sugar checked and it was 14. They switched him to Lantus to see if he would have better results with it. We inceased to 4 units of Lantus over a period of several weeks and he was not responding to it at all - I took him back to the vet and his sugar was 30. The vet then switched him back to Caninsulin (5 units BID, then 6 units BID). I started checking his sugar at home and reading more about feline diabetes. His blood sugar levels at nadir were overall getting lower but still high some days and they varied a lot. Some days his sugar would be 6 and some days it would be 16. His preshot levels were often in the 20's. I have switched him to canned EVO 95% meat (Chicken and turkey flavour) beginning of this week. I now only have him on 2 units of caninsulin and his numbers are the best I have seen them. The last couple nights his preshot numbers have ranged from 9 - 12. I am really hoping he is starting to get his blood sugar levels on track. The thing that is concering me is his furr has been looking unhealthy and stringy ever since he was diagnosed. Some days better then others - however I find his furr is looking much worse now that his bloodsugar levels are becoming more in the normal range. This has to be the worst I have seen it. Will it take some time for his usual healthy furr to go back to normal? Could there be another reason he is looking so unhealthy?
Thanks so much for all your help and sorry for the long story!
 
Let me start with a few questions:

- Are you home testing his bg?
- Lantus is a MUCH better insulin choice than canininsulin. Why did you change back to canininsulin?
- What is the current dose of insulin you are giving and how often?

An unregulated diabetic can lose weight, have coarser fur and be dandruffy and can eat like there is no tomorrow.

There are three key factors to managing diabetes: food/nutrition, home testing and insulin

1) Feline Nutrition: Canned Evo 95% is a great food choice to be using, so you get thumbs up on that!

2. Home testing: It is impossible to convey the value of testing your cat's BG (blood glucose) level at home. Some vets will "suggest" this, but most won't even mention it. They will send you home with insulin and an amount to shoot and maybe some instructions about hypoglycemia (blood sugar dropping to a dangerously low level).

Well, the thing is, human diabetics don't EVER give themselves insulin without checking there BG to make sure it is safe to do so, so why shouldn't it be the same for our kitties. Here on FDMB it is. You will notice that the vast majority of people here test their cat's BG at least 2x/day (before giving each shot to make sure the level is safe enough) and periodically at other times to see how the cat is responding to the current dose. We use a human glucometer, test strips and lancets - which are all very readily available and easy to use.

Which is why I am asking if you are home testing. It is the only way to safely give insulin.

3. Insulin: There are several types of insulin available. Many people, myself included use Lantus or Levimer both of which are great insulins. They are gentle insulin and given twice (BID) per day in 12 hour increments. Or you could also choose PZI or the new version called Prozinc.

The fact that you have Lantus and were using is good. I would highly recommend you go back to using it. However, please visit the Lantus group - viewforum.php?f=9

So you can learn how to store, handle and how lantus works. You can also feel free to post on that board as well.

How did you arrive at the doses you are giving? It sounds like you very possibly could have passed your cat's ideal dose by increasing as often and the amount that you did.

We recommend the start low, go slow approach - which means start at a low dose of 1 unit or even 1/2 unit and slowly, with home testing, over the course of days/weeks adjust the dose by 1/4 or even 1/2 unit increments. We rarely suggest increasing by 1 unit increments - why - well you may skip over the ideal dose for the cat.

Others will be along with more questions/suggestions. Please feel free to keep asking questions, we are here to help.
 
Yes, I am testing his bloodsugar at home. He is on 2 units of caninsulin twice a day. He was on lantus for a month and was not responding to it all all. His sugars were higher then they had ever been which is why my vet switched him back. I think my vet only uses lantus and caninsulin.

I just checked his bloodsugar this morning 12 hours after his last shot and his sugar was 8.7. I'm not quite sure how much insulin to give him since the last time his preshot number was lower (9.1) I dropped it to one unit and next shot time his blood sugar had raised to 20.4.

He seems to be becoming more regulated but his furr is just looking awful. I can't see why his furr would be getting worse when his bloodsugar levels are getting better. Any ideas?

Also, when he was on dry food he would eat the entire bowl of food that I out down within minutes. Now that he is on canned food he doesn't eat as much. In the morning he wakes me up for food like usual but then only eats maybe 1/4 of what I put down. At night time though he will usually eat the whole bowl of canned.
 
how often are you testing? It is important to test before each shot as well get some spot tests in during the day. Caninsulin is not a good choice for cats. I believe it has a shorter duration than lantus which means, it may only last 6-8 hours in his system. Whereas lantus will last 12 hours and builds up a "shed" or depot to ensure that he has insulin in his system. It is also a gentler insulin, longer lasting insulin.

My guess is that he is Bg's are like a yo-yo - up down, up down and in possibly steep drops. And therefore he isn't regulated or under control in any way. And may be spending several hours a day in higher numbers - because no insulin working and have wide swings in BG levels. Of course the only way to know for sure is to test and test often. You don't have to go crazy testing.

While you may see lower numbers 8.7 (156), 9.1 (163) this is still higher than normal non-diabetic range which is in US terms 50-120. To convert - take your number and multiply by 18 to get US number.

If this were my cat, I would start back on the Lantus, start at 1 unit, go to the lantus board, start posting and asking for help.

Putting the cat on lantus, will do wonders for him and over time, if you follow the protocols, you should see improvement overall, including fur.
 
To give some perspective - Maui's coat was the same way - dandruff, coarse, dry fur and top it off - she was pulling out her fur - Now, some of this was due to an allergy to dry food (I don't know what exactly it was with the dry food that caused, nor does it matter)

Maui had dry itchy skin and fur for years. She was treated with steroids and shampoos to get rid of the itch, never the underlying cause for the itch.

I came here and learned about dry food and diabetes. I removed the dry food, got her on Lantus and within a short period of time, the itchiness stopped, the fur became lush and soft and the dandruff went away.

And 4 years later, she looks and feels good.
 
My Tiggys fur was a mess till we got him regulated.

When the vet decided the lantus wasnt working, did he do a fructosamine blood test at the lab or did he just test then and there?

I agree with hilary and maui - he probably is bouncing up and down. Home testing would give a much better picture of whast going on. I mean he could be dropping very low (even dangerously) and then shooting up very high in reaction.

let us know if you want more info on home testing.
 
I'm not sure if some people can't view my whole posts or not but I've mentioned several times that I do check my cats blood sugar at home. Usually four times a day. Preshot and about 5 or 6 hours after the shot.
 
Hillary and maui - you mentioned your cat was treated with steroids for poor skin and coat. Was that before or after the diabetes diagnosis? My cat was perfectly fine beginning of November until I took him to the vet for chewing at himself. The vet decided he probably had fleas and treated him with flea medication and a steroid shot for the itching. That's when all him symptoms started. My vet pretty much admitted to me that steroid shots can CAUSE the diabetes and can be very dangerous for cats. (usually after multiple shots). I read about a lot of people complaining the same thing happened to their cat. I will never give another pet a steroid shot again.
 
ever since I got Maui in 1998, she had skin issues - which over the years were treated with steroid shots and shampoos. she always ate dry food too.

in March 2009 she was diagnosed with diabetes. from learning about diabetes - steroids and dry food definitely are two things that can cause/contribute to diabetes.\

so to answer your question, she had the skin issues and steroids before the diabetes.

I too say will not use steroids again, however, now that I understand what it can do and that in some circumstances the use of steroids is helpful, I will decide whether or not to give it depending on the reason for it.

so, don't say never again, as it does have a place, but if you do use them, do so with the understanding of the side effects.
 
I remembered brushing would help and did a search on dandruff to find the post that talked about the kind of brush.


BJM said:
To help with the coat issue - if matting is bad, a mat rake/cutter, which looks like a comb that has blades on one side of the teeth - may be used to work through the mats. Keep your finger between the skin and the rake, and starting at the outer edge, work your way through the mat.

A seam ripper works too, on smaller mats.

To reduce dandruff and help distribute the oils in the coat, use a boar bristle brush when brushing.
Click to expand...

Yes the dandruff can get really bad with unregulated diabetes. The coat also gets dull and matted easily. It took several months after starting Wink on insulin for the coat to start to look better. Clumps of hair falling out, horrible mats, dull and lifeless, dandruff. All gone now and the coat is long and silky again on Wink.

Hope this helps.
 
yep - my cat Honey now has a beautiful, soft silky coat.
Before I switched her to wet and before she was regulated, it was a mess - she had dandruff really bad, clumps of fur on her back and a dull lustre.
 
Abigail is so bad with brushing her. She hates it. Which is crazy. I've never seen a cat who hated being brushed. I could brush my one cat Audrey all day! She loves it!

A boar hair brush though is soft so it may be OK. Abigail has her "special brush" that is just a round human brush with the smaller bristles.
 
Essential fatty acids via fish oil may be another aid. There are some nutrition products which profess to help improve the furr.

Rubber curry combs tend to just remove loose fur.

Velcro lint burshes won't penetrate far, will remove some loose fur, and may help accustom the cat to the process gently.

I have seen gloves with rubber nubs on them for petting the cat to remove loose fur.
 
Stormy Blue has is VERY allergic to fleas. I spend a small fortune trying to keep my house, yards, and pets all flea free.. but this is NTX, flea heaven. One can jump on one of my dogs during a walk, hitch a ride back home, jump off and go nip Stormy and send him into an itchy, scratchy, hair pulling mania. 5+ years ago, Stormy had a terrible bout of flea bite dermatitis and had to have a steroid shot in conjunction with oral steroids and antibiotics. And he then became a diabetic. Prior to this, Stormy Blue ate mostly dry foods, and rarely canned foods. He is a confirmed carb addict, (he will break into the pantry and steal the dried spaghetti, cereal, and rice to get his "fix" if I do not keep a concrete block in front of it - and he will break into the bread box and steal bread if I do not keep the box's door turned to the wall), and his coat looked TERRIBLE and he could have started a snow storm with the amount of dandruff he shed on a daily basis..

After several months of insulin + a diet change to ultra low carb canned foods, he managed to go OTJ for over four years and his coat became shiny and soft again. Petting him was like petting a rabbit. Soooo soft and silky. Sadly, he came out of remission in late January and has returned to micro doses of Lantus insulin.. hopefully for not too terribly much longer. (crossing my fingers and my toes)

On a side note, both his older full sister as well as his younger first cousin are also both diabetics and neither one has EVER had a steroid shot or oral steroids. And both of them have always been canned food feeders, too. So, Stormy may have become a diabetic w/o the steroid shot anyway :-(

~M
 
BJM said:
Essential fatty acids via fish oil may be another aid. There are some nutrition products which profess to help improve the furr.

Rubber curry combs tend to just remove loose fur.

Velcro lint burshes won't penetrate far, will remove some loose fur, and may help accustom the cat to the process gently.

I have seen gloves with rubber nubs on them for petting the cat to remove loose fur.
Click to expand...

LOL the glove brushes are just a toy here. My cats are silly. I bought one and they like to bite the bristles. Usually one of us will hold her and we do a quickie brush a few times a week. She just hates not getting her way!

I will have to video her "angry meow" and her "pathetic meow" Her meow is super high pitched. More like a little song than a kitty saying meow
 
I haven't had a chance to make a spreadsheet with his bloodsugar levels yet but I have been keeping track and was wondering what everyone thought about these levels and how much insulin I should be giving. I just started him on wet food this week (Evo 95% Turkey and Chicken).

April 2 -
10:30 pm preshot 16.5 units (shot 2 units caninsulin)
April 3-
10:30 am preshot 11.9 (shot 2 units)
4:00 pm 6.1
10:30 pm preshot 9.1 (only shot 1 unit to be safe)
4:00 am 8.7
April 4-
10:30 am preshot 20.4 (shot 2 units)
3:00 pm 11.1
10:30 pm preshot 11.5 (shot 2 units)
April 5-
10:30 am preshot 8.7 (shot 1 unit)
5:00 pm 7.8
10:30 pm preshot 19.3 (shot 2 units)

His numbers seem to be much better when he has 2 units of insulin. But when his preshot numbers are lower I worry about giving too much insulin so I decrease it to one unit and then his sugar at shot time is really high. Any suggestions? Would giving him 2 units when his sugar is a those levels (8.7, 9.1 etc) push his BS too low?

If I need to I will look into finding a different vet that carries different insulin. However I just bought a brand new vial of the caninsulin and was wondering what everyone thought of these numbers. His numbers only seem to really spike drastically when I lower his dose to one unit. Before I switched him to canned food he was constantly getting numbers in the ranging from 20 - 25 preshot.
 
Hello, and welcome to FDMB!

First off, just want to say that your kitty is really lucky to have you to care for him like this. :smile:

He does seem to be responding pretty well to the Caninsulin, but I do see what you mean about higher preshot numbers following the 1 unit dose. It might simply be that the smaller dose isn't lasting as long in his system as the larger dose. Or, it might be that he is actually dropping too low during those cycles (when his preshot has been lower and he's had the 1 unit dose) and then bouncing up from that. 'Too low' doesn't necessarily mean 'hypo low' it can mean that it just got lower than he's currently used to. Or it may be that he dropped too fast and bounced. Or it might be that on the days when he gets the higher dose his pancreas gets enough help to start producing insulin of it's own, hence lower preshot numbers... It would be really useful to have more info about what is happening during the cycle; to maybe do a complete curve or two and have a look at the pattern...? In many cats Caninsulin drops the BG fast and then seems to out of the system in about 8 hours.

Do you know when the insulin peak is for your cat? (Lowest number of the cycle?)

Regarding the dosages, it isn't necessary to stick with whole units. Do you have syringes with half unit markings? And many of us give subtler measurements like .25 of a unit or less, and even subtler variations like 'fat units' and 'skinny units' for example. (And in our house we also have 'ever-so-slightly shaved units' and 'pleasantly plump' units! :lol:)

Eliz
 
Canninsulin is a u40 insulin and those syringes do not have 1/2u markings on them. To fine tune the dose, is suggest getting some u100 syringes and using the conversion chart to figure out how much 1.5u of that u40 insulin to give him in a u100 syringe. I'm on my phone and search function not the greatest using it on the board....so look for "u40 to u100 conversion chart" link. Also, you might consider starting a new topic since this has to do with dose fine tuning and not a rough coat. You'd get more eyes on it that way :)

~M
 
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