Diabetic Dosing Help

Status
Not open for further replies.
hnkstr

hnkstr

Member Since 2011
Hello, i'm going on about a year now for Tigger's diabetes. I am using Lantus and doing 6u twice daily.
But he is still drinking a ton of water and peeing alot. Talked to my vets but they aren't experts on this subject. His readings at the vets office is around 340 on average, but he gets really stressed going there.
I am looking to purchase a home testing device and they mentioned Alpha Trak and iPet.
Is 6 units of Lantus abnormal for cats? Is Levemir a better choice? I will search the boards as well, but just wanted to post a message to say hi and lay out my situation.
I would really like to find a longer lasting insulin so once a day shots can be done. I'm single and its getting harder to have an active life, yet make sure Tigger gets dosed.
Anyways, Glad to meet all of you and look forward to chatting!

Brent
 
Hi Brent,

First off....OMG 6u twice a day of Lantus is a whopping dose for a cat unless there are underlying health conditions. Most cats here get .5 -1u twice a day. Its a very good chance Tigger is getting too much insulin, which will look just like not enough because the body tries to protect itself by dumping stored sugars. But its hard to tell with out testing at home.

You don't need the expensive pet only meters from the vet's any human meter that fits your budget and takes a small blodd sample will work just fine. I personally use the Relion Micro from Walmart it runs about $9 and a package of 50 test strips is around $20, I think I spent like $40 max including tax, to get set up to test Maxwell, for meter, test strips, lancets & pen, and ketostix for testing his urine for ketones. If you are willing to learn to test at home we can teach you how, we've taught lots of folks over the internet. And if you liked some hands on help, just post a general location (city, & state) and there just might be one of our members close enough to help you out.

One other question for you...What is Tigger eating right now? Diet plays a huge role in the treating of this disease. We promote a low carb/high protein all canned diet.

I'm sure others will be posting shortly with a ton of links and questions, we will help you help Tigger and hopefully also get your life back. :-D But it is very rare that a cat goes on once a day shots, simply because they metabolize insulin faster than we humans do. But that said we see an aweful lot of them that go into remission and not need insulin when our protocol is followed, especially on Lantus.

Welcome to FDMB Family,

Mel, Maxwell and The Fur Gang
 
hi brent,

yes, 6 units is a lot, but many cats have underlying conditions that make them need larger amounts. my cat is one of them - he's at 11 units right now.

don't change his dose yet - there are people on the lantus forum who can advise you on dosage once you have gathered some information.

don't buy an alphatrak or an ipet - most of the people who get those end up getting another one. buy a human glucose meter - i have a Freestyle Lite and it works great, but basically any common human one will work for you. the strips are the most expensive part. I would encourage you to buy a meter that is local to you so you can run out and get more strips if you don't have time to order them online. many of us, i think, buy supplies online because you can get them cheaper than locally. anyway, definitely buy a human meter!

you want to learn to test and set up a spreadsheet. we'll help you and encourage you every step of the way. we've all been there. it takes maybe 2 weeks to get up to speed and there's a lot to learn, but it's do-able!

cats have a quicker metabolism - there isn't any insulin that can be done once a day. but there are things people do to accommodate their social lives, so we can probably give you help on the timing as well.

i mostly want to welcome you and assure you we'll help you get to the bottom of the question on your kitty. once you're testing we'll be able to tell if he's getting too much or not enough insulin. he will need to be on an all-low-carb canned food diet, but don't make any sudden changes. we'll help you transition so he doesn't fall into unsafe numbers as you change him over. we'll help you get him to a point where he's got better BG numbers and you'll see your "old" cat return behavior & health wise, as much as is possible, which is a lot.

i'm on the lantus forum, which also has a lot of levemir users. there's also a levemir forum. what i've learned in the 4 months i've been on here is that people here do feline diabetes 24/7 - if you need help you can get it here almost immediately. we don't substitute for vet care, but vets have to know a lot about many animals, and most don't really have experience specializing in feline diabetes.

so, first things first. go get a human meter, lancets & test strips, come back and check in, and we'll help you through learning to test him.

here's the beginning of your reading material! :lol:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18139
 
6u is a lot of insulin but there are a number of things that can influence insulin requirements such as diet, medical issues, and even length of being a diabetic so it’s not always unrealistic.

Some questions for you that can help determine if your dose is too high:
How long has Tigger been a diabetic? Have you had any glucose curves done at your vet or fructosamine tests (if yes, what were the results)? Have you used any other insulins?
What dose of insulin did Tigger start at? How did you arrive at 6u (how often did you increase and by what amounts)?
Where do you give Tigger shots?
What is Tigger’s diet like? What are you feeding and how often?
What sort of medical/dental has Tigger had lately? Does Tigger have any concurrent medical conditions?
How old is your current insulin? How do you handle and store your insulin?

Currently Willy is on 5u of Lantus. He has no underlying health issues. Some kitties ARE high dose kitties while others may be getting too much insulin and it will look similar to not getting enough. On such a large dose, it is VERY VERY important to test before each shot! I cannot stress this enough. Hooray for you for looking into it! That is awesome! When you are ready, there are lots of links and awesome people that can give you tips to make it easier for you and your kitty to get into the routine.

When considering a meter I think some things are important to consider: availability and cost of testing strips and the amount of blood a meter takes to use. It isn’t the meter itself that is expensive, it is the testing strips, and some can be confusing to use or you can only purchase them online. As far as blood, the less blood the meter needs the better for you and your kitty. There is nothing more frustrating than erroring or repeating a test because you needed more blood than what you got and your kitty is being grumpy about it!

Currently we use the ReliOn Micro meter that is available at Walmart. We love this meter because it’s easily available and the testing strips are a very reasonable price (36$ for 100). It takes a very small amount of blood. Plus, if anything were to happen and there was an emergency that called for test strips at 1am Walmart is usually 24hrs!

Now, to answer your question about Tigger and too much insulin--- it is really too hard to say definitively until we get to know your kitty a little better and you start home testing and gathering data. 6u is A LOT of insulin for the average diabetic. To be honest, it is a little scary that you’re giving that dose and you’re not testing before each shot! You have been very lucky and I strong suggest you put together a hypo kit if you don’t have one and read through some of these posts about treating hypo (and what to get for a hypo kit):
How to treat Hypos
How to handle low numbers

When you start testing, you will want to get at least 3 tests daily: before each shot, and after 6hours (nadir) in either cycle. The dosing of Lantus is based on the nadir (lowest point in the cycle) so it’s important to get the nadir at least once a day. You will also want to do curves when you can (test every 2 hours for a 12 hour period). The shape of the curve may be able to help us determine if you’re kitty is getting to much insulin and provide more detailed information about how your kitty is handling insulin.

When you start testing, you will want to set up a spreadsheet. This allows other users to look at your cats history and BG numbers and get an idea of what is going on. You can see mine in my signature.
Setting up a spreadsheet
It is also useful to set up a profile. That way others can see your cats medical history and feeding/testing information.

Cats process insulin in a different way (faster) than people do, so I don’t believe there is an insulin that you could give *effectively* once a day. Once the Lantus folks learn more about you and your kitty and you’re able to nail down the dosing, there are a number of suggestions people will have for you to accommodate your social life. I am young (mid 20s) so I know all about trying to balance a social life with treating a diabetic kitty!

Welcome to FDMB and hope to see you on the Lantus board soon!
Stephanie&Willy
 
As others have said, six units is high with testing before each shot. My Tonis was up to 7 (or 6.5) units of Levemir and was doing great then I measured a preshot of 42. I have been having to reduce his dose and he is now on 3.5 units.
 
Wow, thanks for the replies! Wasn't expecting so much so soon for assistance! ;-)
Here is Tiggers history and I live in Hammond Wi, just over the border from the Twin Cities in Wisconsin.
5 years ago a pregnant momma kitty shows up starving at my back door shortly after I bought my house. I started to feed her and noticed one day she had the litter but not sure where. Then a couple days later she drops a tiny kitten at my back door, Tigger, and doesn't go back for any more so I think it was a last ditch effort to save the last kitten on her part. So, I took them both in and have them to this day. I don't now exactly how long he's been diabetic, but it seems like he's always pee'd alot, so i'm thinking he was born with it, and being she was starving during her pregnancy, I think that played a role in that. What do you think?

As for food, I buy the Royal Canin Diabetic DS dry food (which he doesn't like much) and either a can of tuna or canned cat food once a day for both of them.
His readings were alomst 500 the first time the vet checked his blood sugar. I started at 2u and gradually increased it as the numbers did not seem to go down and he continued to drink/pee alot. Its almost like the lantus isn't doing much.

I have not had him stay at the vet for a curve test as he gets so anxiety ridden when he goes to the Vet. No other underlying health issues that I know of, although 2 weeks ago I did bring him into the Animal Hospital on Memorial Day as he was lathargic and not eating, and being he's diabetic I did not mess around. He had an infection which has now cleared up with antibiotics.

When rubbing his belly, I can still tell his bladder is HUGE. The Vet said it should be the size of a golf ball or something, and his is like a softball. I just don't think he's doing well and the trip to ER scared me and maybe i'm not doing enough for him, thus my finding this site to see if there are other options for diabetic cats. As for dosing, I shoot him under the skin and move the location around from his neck down the spine area.

I want to start testing him at home so any assistance would be great! I do let him outside supervised and was letting him eat the mice he caught, until this last infection. Now he won't get to eat them, but I thought it was better than cat food since its what they are bred to eat! Well, until he brought home a 10lb rabbit, but that's another story and picture. ;-)
 
Forgot a few answers to questions. ;-)
The current Lantus pack is a couple weeks old and stays in the fridge. I will go out and buy a lancet and meter today, and will read up on the links you guys gave me.
What is the best Lancet to get? I saw a ton of them at Target yesterday. I will be hitting Walmart on lunch break today to pick up the supplies.
 
Hi Brent,

More than likely your high numbers and thus the high does could be coming from one of two places or possibly both...the dry food and rebound. There is really no dry food that is great for a diabetic or any other cat for that matter. I, personally, have 11 soon to be 12 (adopting another sugarcat soon), and everyone here eats exactly what my diabetic eats Friskies pate style canned food. On this diet change and a short course of insulin Maxwell (my diabetic) went from 485 when dxed to remission in about 2 weeks. And my other non-diabetics are doing better than ever on the new diet as well, they have become sleek and shiny with tons of energy, and even my guy with food allergies had those completely disappear.

But that said I wouldn't change Tigger's diet until you are home testing as usually just removing the dry food, will drop a cat's BGs as much as 100 or more points.

In the beginning you are going to want a fairly large lancet gauge, around 28 gauge, after awhile their ears do learn to bleed.

Mel, Maxwell and The Fur Gang
 
Hi Brent!

good to know a little bit of Tigger's story.

the first thing we all do is get cats off of dry food - it all has wayyyyy too many carbs, even the prescription stuff. But again, not until you're home testing because you don't want tigger's blood sugar to plummet without you knowing it and being prepared to counteract the drop.

i would wonder about tigger's bladder issue. that might be related. diabetes is most often (not exclusively, but mostly) an older cat's issue unless the cat has been given steroids for an infection or something. has tigger been given cortisone or another steroid? the infection he just had would've likely caused his blood sugar to be higher and difficult to pull down. if he is in any pain, that can raise their BG. anxiety also raises the BG - so going to the vet is never best for checking blood glucose.

i use the freestyle lancet pen and lancets - but lancets are relatively cheap and i doubt it matters which one you use. some people freehand a poke, i use the device that you just put against their ear and click. you can learn to do it either way. people recommended sizes, but in my town of 60,000 i couldn't even find different sizes. i just went to one drugstore and bought the monitor, lancet pen & lancets that were all the same brand. the Freestyle Lite only needs a tiny bit of blood to test, which is why i went with that brand. a lot of people use the Walmart Relion stuff.

you are going to need syringes that have 1/2 unit markings, because as you are home testing you'll be adjusting tigger's insulin by .25 increments. vets seem to mostly recommend 1 unit adjustments, but lantus and levemir both need to be adjusted by .25 increments. any time a change in dose is made their numbers get wonky, both up or down, and you have to give it a few days to clear up before you see what that dose actually does for tigger. but that comes later. initially, we just need to gather info, so as soon as you can get testing, go ahead.

people will respond to you as much as you are here - so if you came back and posted in an hour that you had testing equipment, we'd have more directions for you within a half an hour, probably. there are many people who can give you help on this and everyone has their little tricks they use. in other words, you'll have plenty of quick help pretty much as soon as you need it. as soon as you get testing and get a spreadsheet set up you should slide on over to the Lantus forum. there are about 30 of us who post multiple times a day over there who will all give you a hand.

glad you're advocating for Tigger! this is the best possible thing you could do to get that blood glucose under control and minimize the impact of diabetes on his body. he'll also stop eating, drinking and peeing so much and his fur, if it's greasy, will come back to normal before too long. my cat's fur took about 3 months, but the other symptoms disappeared within a month.
 
Off to get supplies here shortly. Kind of excited to get this all under control. Really want to thank you all for the assistance, i really wasn't sure where to turn as the current dosing regimine does not seem to be working.
If any of you need some computer advice please don't hestitate to shoot me a message, its the least I can do. Would be glad to help out if I can lend a hand. ;-)

As for the .25 unit dosing, all i have are Lantus pens so i'm going to need to figure something out there. But first things first, get the testing supplies and see where he is actually sitting throughout the day.
 
hnkstr said:
As for the .25 unit dosing, all i have are Lantus pens so i'm going to need to figure something out there. But first things first, get the testing supplies and see where he is actually sitting throughout the day.
Click to expand...

Hi Brent,

You don't have to use the needles that go with the pens. You can use regular syringes with pens. See the pictures here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=151

Ask your vet for a script for 31G 3/10cc 5/16" syringes with half-unit markings. Then you can do more finely tuned dosing. They're only about $13 for a box of 100.
 
Thanks Julia, I will look into those.
I am having a heck of a time drawing blood using the lancet. I'm trying in the ear, have a flashlight and can see the veins good, but nothing comes out.
I hate to keep poking him for nothing. :sad:
Wanted to get a reading before i dosed him here and I have to leave in an hour for my nephews baseball game. May have to wait and try again.
 
hi Brent, it takes about 2 weeks for cat's ears to bleed every time. in the meantime, don't feel badly about poking him, but every time you try, give him a treat give him a treat. a perfect treat is a little bit of boiled chicken breast - cut them in about 1/2" cubes and freeze most - bring out about a tablespoon at a time to the fridge.

cat's ears will grow new capillaries where you've been poking and before too long you'll have blood every time you try. the other thing you can do is buy some neosporin OINTMENT with pain relief - the stuff is super. i tried it where the cats had scratched me and was amazed how it removed the sensation of being scratched. some people slather it on at the end of the day, some put it on each time they test til their kitties get used to it. some people put a bit on 15 minutes before they're going to test and wipe it off at test time.

the only trick is that you can't have a gloppy amount on when you are testing because it mucks up the test strips. i bought the cream first and hated it - it was like the blood dispersed into the hair and soaked into the skin or hair and you couldn't get any to test.

here's some other ideas to help you:

the ear bleeds better when it's warmed - i took an old white sock, added about 4 Tablespoons of uncooked rice, tied a knot to close it, then nuked it for maybe 15 seconds to warm it. make sure it won't burn Tigger, of course. hold it against his ear for 30 seconds or so til it warms his ear up, then remove the bag, put something harder behind the ear (on the inside) and poke from the outside (furry side) of his ear.

one ear will likely bleed better than the other.

you can also warm up a wet washcloth, put it inside a ziplock baggie and warm the ear that way.

a very very thin sheen of vaseline on the furry side of his ear will help the blood bead up and test easier. i put a smear on every morning and then it's good for the day. again, not too much or it will clog the strip.

no kitty likes their ear poked at first, but people kept telling me their cats would come for it - and i'm thinking "i have to hunt down my cat and pull him out from under the furniture to test him - right." but seriously, he hears the testing equipment rustling now and he comes to me. it's all about the food when the test is over. now he knows he has to be tested before he gets to eat.

if tigger is too wild you can burrito him in a beach towel. go on youtube and look for it - there are videos on how to wrap them so you can test. i wrapped punkin for about 2 weeks - laid him all bound up onto my lap so i could test him. then he resigned himself and now he's totally fine.

cats are bugged by the feel of the blood drop on their ears - punkin doesn't like it, at least, and he'll flick his ear just as i'm getting ready to put the meter strip to the drop. have everything ready when you start so you don't have delays in your process. if they flick the ear when the blood drop wells up you'll look like a crime scene with that tiny flick of blood gone all over your face! :lol: been there!

phone call here now - i'll be back.
 
Hey thanks again Julie,
I was all stoked getting my supplies and was soooooo curious to see where he was at and, BAM, nothing.. lol

I picked up some of the Fancy Feast little cans and gave him that right after dosing. Wow, he didn't like patte stuff from the other brands but he was on that like a fat kid on a cupcake. Oh wait, that probably isn't politically correct, but accurate. lol

I will try again in the morning, and see if i have any noesporin. I think i have some around here...
 
don't forget to reward you after the pokes too! it's harder on us than on them, i think. a little chocolate, whatever it is that you like for a treat! i'd say beer but if you have a beer every time you test him you're gonna be in trouble! :lol:

most cats like the fancy feast, fortunately, you can find several varieties that are low carb. hahaha and you just described my punkin attacking his bowl of fancy feast! :-D

you're definitely going to want to switch to using syringes instead of the needles that fasten onto the pens. those pens are set-up for people and the dosing isn't accurate enough for the small body of a cat. they only adjust in 1 unit increments and you'll be changing by the 1/4 units. really - you'll be amazed at how much difference 1/4 unit can make in their little bodies!

i'll stop for now - you're headed out to the game - have a great time! maybe some others will toss out ideas for you while you're gone as well.

oh yeah, one more thing. a lot of people use the "3 strikes and you're out!" philosophy with testing. at the beginning when it's hard to get that little drop, give tigger 3 pokes and if you can't get it, let him go & give him a treat. try again in a couple of hours when you've both recovered.

ok, 2 more things. sometimes after you've poked you can "stretch" the poked hole a little bit and the blood will well up. sometimes massaging the ear before you poke, sometimes putting just a little pressure on the vein for a moment on the just below the poke along the vein helps. the blood flows from the outside of the head towards the tip and down to the center, if i remember correctly.

if you have more trouble, ask again and people will keep offering ideas. keep using this thread - if you want to change the subject line you edit the first post's subject line and save it. like you could change it to "need help with testing" and people would bring ideas.
 
A couple of other tricks to get blood out of those ears is...warm up the ears, in the very beginning we used a rice sock for Maxwell, just a thinnish sock filled about 2/3 full of plain non-instant rice, or oatmeal...toss in microwave for about 20 seconds until very warm but not hot. Maxwell is also long haired, so a tiny smear of neosorin helps the blood bead up and not disappear in the fur. Just remember a warm ear is a giving ear.

I also found at least with Maxwell, if I poked just a little above that double flap of skin low on his ear I got blood every time, too high up and nothing. Now after 8 months of testing I would swear his almost starts bleeding the moment he hears me shake the test strip container. And even though he has been in remission for the last 7 months I still test him every two weeks, just because I'm a worrier and because I'm also a vet tech student and I find it fascinating to see how his diet effects his blood sugar..lol

Mel, Maxwell and The Fur Gang.
 
I am so happy to see you got a meter! Yay! Which did you choose?

Don't be too upset about testing issues, we ALL had them when we first started. Heck, Willy's were so bad that I use his feet instead of his ears. Willy doesn't get any treats for his tests because he will bite your fingers off (then go berserk rand rampage through the kitchen trying to get addition food like some sort of orange hulk) but he does get tons and tons and tons of attention (he is a snuggle piggie) and occasionally some cat nip so it's ok by him! He comes running when you call him to be tested because he knows he will get loved up and down and be the center of attention for a few minutes.

Julie already covered lots of tips that are helpful for ear pricks. A few things I wanted to add:
- If you don't have rice for the sock lentils and oatmeal also work.
- Sometimes people have better luck if they use a folded up piece of paper towel on the other side of the ear to help stabilize the ear and give it some backing (added bonus, some protection from getting pricked yourself). This is also useful for stopping the bleeding because you can just fold it over the ear when you're done (you'll want to put pressure on the spot for 10-15seconds to keep it from bruising). Cosmetic sponges also work great.
- Many people find that when they start home testing double poking (pokes nearly on top of eachother one right after the other) will help encourage bleeding. Some people have better luck free handing the pokes, others have better luck using the device. Make sure you're poking at the proper depth (I know with Willy I was scared of hurting him so I would have to poke him way more than needed because I didn't want to poke him deeply).
- You can try to scrape the blood you do get with your fingernail and test from there. I am not sure how accurate these results are, but I have seen it recommended a number of times to new testers.
- If your kitty seems to be having issues with the "equipment" (scared or being too nosey) you can go through the process a couple of times during the day without actually doing it (ie: warm the ear, put the lancing device against the ear without a lance and push the button, put the meter up to the ear, pinch the ear to stop the bleeding, give a reward, etc.) This is good practice to learn how to juggle everything you will be using.
- The biggest thing that helps most people is to reward your kitty with food even if your attempt is not successful and always always always stay calm and positive-- walk away for a little while if you need to. You can come back to the testing later. Make sure you reward yourself when you're done too!

As far as the food, dry can really really boost up BG. It may be possible that Tigger's insulin needs will severely decrease (or be eliminated as we have seen happen several times on this board) when he is fed wet food. Willy got into a few pieces of Evo dry (its around 8% carbs, very very low for a dry food) and it boosted his BG by over 200 points. It's really really really super awesome amazing about the Fancy Feast!!! Willy would cut someone for his FF fix... Actually I am pretty sure he would cut someone for anything eatible (I had to glue a lock on the garbage can after he ate half of a McDonald's snackwrap including the lettuce :lol: :lol: )

That being said, I'm not sure if you should make the switch from dry to wet gradually or suddenly. I know some cats can do it all at once (and it's recommended if they will cooperate) but on 6u of Lantus, I would be concerned that your kitty could very easily hypo if you made the switch too quickly without reducing your dose. Lantus hypos can be quick onset, long, and stubborn too!

My recommendation is to prepare a hypo kit (one of the links I posted about treating hypo before had a link to what you will want to include in your kit but if you need help or additional info let me know), practice testing (try to get a few successful tests: preshot am/+6/preshot pm or even a curve testing every 2hrs if you can do that), and change the title (or new post) something like "Need help switching foods" or something of the sort. My initial thoughts are that you will be advised to either change the food all at once (if Tigger will eat it) and start the insulin dose over so that you can follow the Lantus protocol from the ground up OR you will change very gradually from dry to wet, reducing the dose as necessary. I really wish I could offer some actual help in this regard but I've never dealt with a dry to wet food change before. :sad:
 
Well, no luck again today. He hust won't bleed for me..
Tried warming the ear and still could not get a drop.
I have slowly added more Fancy Feast wet food and in doing so reduced the Lantus to 4 to be safe. I sure wish I could get him to bleed so I could see where he is at.
I'll keep trying. I wish Vets made house calls, be nice to get a reading without taking him in since he gets soooo anxiety ridden.

Oh, and I got the Relion since the other ones were super expensive for the strips. The Freestyle was $60 for strips??
 
i buy the strips online for about $27 for 50 - but you'll do fine with what you got.

let's see if we can get you some help with the testing. could you describe what you're doing and maybe we can suggest some more tricks.

are you poking between the vein and the outside of the ear? from the furry outside of the ear?

do you have something hard-ish behind so the poke isn't just being absorbed by the ear moving away? for a while i rigged up a thing that helped. i'll see if i can find that post to give you. lots of people gave me ideas in it. hang on.
 
here ya go - see if there's anything here that helps you.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=37627

so he's cooperating ok, you're poking, but just no blood is coming? can you see that it's really poked?

does your lancet device have a setting on it for how deep it goes? mine goes from 1-4 and i put it at 4 to start - it went through the ear a lot at first and sometimes the blood was on the inside of his ear. if it gets on you, you can test it off of you. i moved our device to 2 after i got the hang of it, but until then i needed it at 4.

have you tried "spreading" the hole after the poke? or massaging the ear?

if you can't get blood from one ear, try the other ear. if it doesn't bleed in one spot, try another spot. at the beginning i actually hit straight on the vein if i felt desperate. that's not a super idea and it did seem like it scarred a little bit - although i use the other ear now and i don't hit on the vein anymore, but i felt like i had to do whatever it took to get it at the beginning.

when you do get blood, after you've tested it, make sure you put a little pressure on to stop the bleeding - other wise they bruise and their ears look awful.

maybe if you describe what you're trying we can make more appropriate suggestions.
 
Well, I guess he's cooperating. ;-)
I get on all fours with him between my legs so he cannot get away. I have a flashlight and actually looking for a vein to hit and still get nothing.
I have the adjustable setting on the Relion lancer, but I even took that off to see if I can get a direct hit and still nothing.

Boy, he's sure dropping some stinky bombs in the litter box, not sure if that is post antibiotics or the pills they gave him to rid him of internal parasites or the change in food going more with wet real food. Is that normal with changing towards the Fancy Feast?

Funny story, but I had a cleaning lady here yesterday (I have a tear in a disc in my back and needed some help cleaning) and it was awesome in here and bam he drops one in the litter box. She was like "What the heck is that" LOL
Speaking of Litter box, i had two litter boxes, one regular and another larger storage box but sometimes he had to pee so bad it would shoot over the side and then he'd cover it and i had a soup mix of pee and litter on the floor in the closet. Couldn't take that anymore and bought one huge tote type deal, and cut away an opening for them to get in the side and so far that has worked like a charm. Just an FYI if anyone else has that issue.

He has started to show spurts of his old self as he used to play rough and i'd be bleeding (still has claws), but over the past 2 years I hadn't seen that. Last night he was purring and ready to attack. Man I wish I could test him and get him off the dry food all together. Would it hurt to just stop the lantus and stop the dry food and watch the amount of water consumption and pee to see if its getting better?
 
I'm wondering if he just can't handle dry food and the Lantus isn't really helping anyways. Like Stephanie said her cat will jump big time even with low carb dry food.
Just saw the link Julie, and that is an interesting idea and will try that with the flashlight and jar. I too have taken the cap off the lancet, but not going at a 45 degree angle, I will try that tonight and see if I can get me a contraption like that built.
I am poking from the furry side.
 
What gauge lancets do you have? You would have thought Nanner was a turnip when I tried using the 30 gauge that I use on myself. I went and got a box of 26 gauge, look for the ones that say "alternate site lancets", and voila! No more turnip.

Paula & Nanner
 
Hey Brent,

I'm new to home testing too but here's what i find works... i massage my cat (Tony)'s ears and they always end up warm, I take the lancet pin thing and free hand poke him between the vein that runs along the outside of the ear and the actual outside of the ear (about 1/16th of an inch from the very edge of his ear at the tip.) I just put my finder on the other side... it ends up being poked too but if the cat has to go through it... i figure i should too!

anyway, after the ear is poked, i massage it a bit more (at the base of the ear) and i find it pushes bloot out... it acts the same way as if you poke your finger and then pinch it to have blood come out...

I youtubed some video's before i tried the first time... hope this helps.
 
Brent, it could be the FF making him stinky - i didn't notice any difference but have heard other people say that. Friskies has low carb and you could try their food.

if you weren't on 6 units i would guess that you could go off, adjust the food and go back on, but i think that's too high to drop and restart. i'd really like you to keep working on the testing because without that, everything is working blind.

and believe me, the 6 units is helping. you don't know where he would be without it - but it's a strong hormone and it's definitely doing something. the trouble is without the home testing numbers we don't know WHAT it is doing. You'll be able to transition him off of the dry food - it'll just take patience and trying different things.

i use the lancet device, put it down squarely on punkin's ear with my finger on the back side to provide a hard surface, and let it jab.

one of these is going to work. tigger will bleed, you just have to keep at it. the very most important number for dosing purposes is the mid-cycle test, so i'd encourage you to try at least 3 times on each ear today around 6 hours after you've given him his shot. trapped between your legs is good. if he resists, try the burritoing him with the beach towel. they give up and in some ways it's doing a favor to tigger - he won't try to get out when he simply can't.

keep at it - you'll get it. it's his life!

Brent, I'd like you to get set up on the Lantus forum and see if we can give you some more help - something's going to work. Click on this link: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9 then under the crying baby click "new topic", put "6/15 Tigger need help with testing" and copy and paste this into the text box:

previous post on main board

This will get you something that will help.
 
Ok, got close tonight, got blood, but not enough to register on the reader. ;-(
Poor guy is definately not enjoying me doing this to him, but man I want a reading soooo bad.

Got an F-4 reading when I put the strip in.
 
look at the back of the container that your strips came in...I think F-4 is the strips coding for the meter. Strip needs to be in the meter before you put the blood on it. Just checking to make sure you did it in the right order...took me a couple of times to figure that one out..lol

Mel, Maxwell and The Fur Gang.
 
OMG I did not do it right. Well, its the first time I got a drop of blood so I guess I thought I knew what I was doing but wasn't.
Man, i can build a PC from scratch but cannot figure out how to use a Glucose Meter.. lol

I WILL Get a reading tonight!

Ok, Stupid question.. lol What does DH mean when you talk about the Hubbies? confused_cat
Diabetic Husband???
 
Dear Husband or Dang Husband depending on the context of the statement...lol. There is a list around here somewhere of the slang we use I'll have to see if I can find it for you...lol

And don't worry about the strip thing, at least now you know, and I'm sure we will be welcoming you to the vampire club today.

Mel, Maxwell & The Fur Gang
 
Ahhh, gotcha. Makes sense now for DH..
I'm thinking I need to get a DW. lol
Before I felt like a single guy with two cats, but now with Tiggers Diabetes i feel like a single father with kids! If that makes any sense.. ;-)

Vampire club. lol Yeah, i can honestly say i'm out for blood!
 
LOL Congrats on being elevated to Fur-Dad!!! I've always thought that cats were a great training tool for having children...if you can clean a litter box, then a dirty diaper seems easy after that...lol.

Mel, Maxwell and The Fur Gang
 
I am going to add to that. If you can clean a Diabetic Cats litter box!
A buddy was over yesterday and he tried to help me get the blood sample. He and his wife have two cats and I said check this out and showed him my litter box as I cleaned out 6 big scoops of clumped litter. I said I cleaned it this morning!
He said that is 5 days worth of cleaning at his house with two cats. So, I REALLY need to get him regulated as that cannot be good on his organs, and my back and wallet! ;-)
 
Only 2 cats!!!! Slackers! lol there are 11 cats here and soon to be 12, as we are adopting a new sugarcat, well we have already adopted her just need to get her from Virginia to Nebraska. But that also means there are 13 litter boxes to clean, and people at Walmart look at me funny when I go in to buy the week's worth of canned cat food. lol Then add on top of that a 80lb drooler, and I have become a professional pooper scooper..lol

Mel, Maxwell and The Fur Gang
 
Yeah, two is all this single guy can do!!
lol

Wow, that is alot of cats! I will be going to Nebraska the beginning of August, I have Relatives in the Norfolk and Wayne areas. I may also have a cousin in Hastings, is that where you are?

Here is the new and improved high walled, high pressure spray resistant, litter box. lol
To get it over those walls he'd have to lay flat on his front paws with his butt straight in the air!
 

Attachments

  • LitterBox.jpg
    LitterBox.jpg
    68.1 KB · Views: 2,676
Yep I'm in Hastings, grew up here, so there is a very good chance that not only would I know your cousin, but that we could be related...lol (It's not a terrible big town and I'm related to about 2/3 of it...lol).

Mel, Maxwell and The Fur Gang
 
hnkstr said:
Yeah, two is all this single guy can do!!
lol

Wow, that is alot of cats! I will be going to Nebraska the beginning of August, I have Relatives in the Norfolk and Wayne areas. I may also have a cousin in Hastings, is that where you are?

Here is the new and improved high walled, high pressure spray resistant, litter box. lol
To get it over those walls he'd have to lay flat on his front paws with his butt straight in the air!
Click to expand...

Hey !!! You stole my litter box idea.

I have about six of these. They really work to contain both the over-shoots and the scattered litter.

Good old Sterlite or RubberMaid box and my trusty hack-saw blade.
 
Hiya & welcome! Have you had an opportunity to post in Lantus Land? If not, I would encourage you to do so - there is a wealth of information & experts there to help out too :mrgreen:
 
LOVE your litter box! that is a super idea. i'm always wiping off the walls in the bathroom where the litter box is - not so much pee, but little litter cooties that "somehow" become airborne!

now that you're getting blood you need a spreadsheet and to get yourself on over to Lantus Land! This is the "New to Lantus/Levemir? Please Read" sticky that's at the top of the Lantus Forum. It'll answer every question you didn't have, including the slang . . . http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18139

since you're a computer guy you probably won't have trouble setting up a spreadsheet, but if you do, just ask for help.
 
Yay!!! I am glad you're finally getting blood! I was going to give you a little longer and then suggest trying a pad sticks for the time being (just to start collecting some data) but it seems like you've got it covered now! Make sure you give treats, even when the test isn't successful! That way the whole experience becomes much more positive.

I have 3 cats and 5 litter boxes (4 are storage containers, 1 is a breeze system--- totally awesome for checking for ketones or traveling) and I was just having the flooding conversation with Julie the other day! I'm lucky none of mine are elevator pee-ers but I totally get the litter cooties on the wall because the walls are some lame stucco thing. I would totally rather clean litter boxes than diapers (even on days when Willy has a tummy ache and it smells like death)... I worked as a preschool teaching assistant and I have some horror stories from the children who's parents were all into being super organic/green and stuff... they will haunt me FOREVER.

Like Julie said, when you have a chance it would be really great to set up a spreadsheet. I linked it in one of my above posts (as well as setting up a profile). These are tools we use to learn about your cat, check their history, etc. so we can bypass asking for all that information if you need help or are having an emergency.
 
Well, I got a tiny bit once. I'm not celebrating yet!
lol
But I am optimistic that I will get some blood tonight and confident I will use the Meter correctly this time!
 
Brent

If you got the Relion Micro like I think you did from some of your comments and well the F-3 code..(I have the same one). You would be surprised how very little blood it really takes to get a reading. Once I got the hang of testing I started playing around to see just how little I really needed. If you get anything close to the head of a pin, or a well sharpened pencil lead, you are good to go with that meter. It is one of the reasons I like it so much, it really does take only a tiny drop. I was trying for far too much blood in the beginning and poor Maxwell got stuck way more than I really had to. But you know live and learn...At least now when she gets here Musette will benefit from Maxwell's tolerance of mommie being stupid...lol

Mel, Maxwell & The Fur Gang
 
Just to give some more options..

I don't poke the outer/thin edge of the ear, I poke the inner/thicker edge of the ear, about 2/3 of the way down. I never freehand, I use a softclix lancet device. I warm the ear and put on a thin sheen of vaseline. I never look for the vein, just aim for just inside the edge of the ear and it works every time.
 
Welcome from another owner of a Tigger kitty. :) Sounds like everyone is giving you great advice.

nannersfriend said:
What gauge lancets do you have? You would have thought Nanner was a turnip when I tried using the 30 gauge that I use on myself. I went and got a box of 26 gauge, look for the ones that say "alternate site lancets", and voila! No more turnip.

Paula & Nanner
Click to expand...

I just want to re-iterate what Paula said here. It could be the lancet gauge is the problem. I believe most lancets that come with the meters would be a higher gauge for human use. Paula suggested a 26 gauge, but a 28 gauge would probably be fine too. We also use a lancet device that has settings on it from 1 to 6 so I set it on 3.

http://www.americandiabeteswholesale.com/catalog/lancing-devices_182.htm

Also what Jen said about the inner part of the ear. I do that too on occasion and it usually works well. :)
 
jRe: Diabetic Dosing Help

I got a reading! 255! Last dosing was 3u 10 hours ago.
Now 255 is about 100 lower than every Vet vsit. Shoud I just take away dry food completely and not dose him and see what the readings come back as? I am gone from 6 am til 3:30 so I can't get the 6 hour reading until the weekend.
 
Going to the vet really induces stress (which can cause BG to jump)... dosing shouldn't be based on vet readings if it can be avoided because the results are usually skewed hence why we really advocate home testing!

How much dry to wet are you feeding currently? I think that is an important factor to really be able to answer your question. Example: if you're almost ALL wet I think you would be safe to finish the transition without too much worry but if you're around half dry half wet you may get a large drop in BG still pulling the dry away.

Are your cat's free feeders or do they gobble up anything you put out? If they don't gobble up food the moment it's put down, you CAN leave some wet out when you leave if you're concerned. Mix it with a bit of water so it doesn't become all dried out and crusty or you can mix it with water and freeze it (ice cube tray, zip lock bags, cup cake trays, etc) and leave it out for Tigger to eat as it thaws out (my cats would try to eat it as a solid block of ice so this isn't an option for me :roll: ).

If you can't check the +6 during the day, I (personally, I err on the side of overly cautious) would leave feeding as is (now) to be safe (until I had a day to monitor and do a curve). It is better to be too high for a day than too low for a minute. 255 is a very nice reading, btw, it's very very good that you dialed back that 6u!
 
Thanks Stef!
Ok, been cutting back the dry and slowly adding more wet. I would say its 70-30 wet to dry now.
With the dry food, they were free feeders, but not sure how I am going to handle the wet feeding yet when I am gone. Espcecially over nights and such when i go to see my dad (45 mintutes away), and taking Tigger isn't an option that far or with my dads cat. lol

255 is sooo much better than I was expecting, not great, but better! And yes, so glad I cut the 6u in half! I am leaning towards no dose tonight, might check him before bed too and then in the morning and get you guys some more data and then get the spreadsheet filled out as best I can.
He was given dry food this morning when i left for work. I can live with 255 for a couple days while i try just wet food, right? Or is that still too high even for a couple days?

And MommaofMuse, my cousin moved there from Norfolk I think, so probably not related. lol But who knows!

And all the rest of ya, I must say its hard to keep up! You guys are great and thanks again for all the input. Tigger is already a different kitty, starting to get more playful and his eyes look perkier and his whine for food is back at full force! lol
 
You can leave wet food for the day as long as you mix in a little water (otherwise it turns funny colors, dries up, and gets crusty). Several folks here have been able to leave it out for up to 12hrs. If you're worried about them eating it all at once you could try freezing it, that way they can eat it as it thaws out. You just mix some water in with it and either put it in an ice cube tray, a silicon cupcake tray, or even in the corners of ziplock baggies depending on the portions you're trying to give.

You could also look into an automatic feeder. There's several people here who use them, unfortunately I have no experience with them so I'm of no help on which brands are good. You would either put frozen portions of food or the food mixed with a little water.

For the overnights: if you could have a friend stop by to check on them, test, give shot (if the number from testing is reasonable to do so without further monitoring) that would be a possibility. You could also look into a pet sitter or vet tech to come by on these occasions if you can't get help from a friend.

I wouldn't skip the shot tonight if you are still giving dry but of course, try to check BG before feeding and giving the shot if you can. That way you can see what Tigger is at before he gets his insulin. Typically we do not advise new members to give shots if BG is lower than 200 (before eating because feeding THEN testing BG can make it seem safe to shoot when really it is just a food spike).

If you're wanting to start dosing over from scratch (1u, sometimes this is helpful to cats who were getting too much insulin so you can find their magic dose), read up on the Lantus Regulation Protocol that we use in the Lantus Support Group Forum. Have you had an opportunity to purchase syringes and put together a hypo kit yet? We're keeping your ToDo list super full! :lol: :lol: Syringes are necessary for the consistency and fine dosing.

It would be really awesome if you (assuming you have a hypo kit ready) could drop the dry food completely this weekend and do a curve (test every 2 hours). I am NOT sure if this would take a dose reduction or not. Hopefully some others could chime in with advice. I wish I could help you with dosing in this situation but I lack the experience to give you any sort of advice definitively.
 
Hi guys, I see you have gotten lots of good information from everyone on here, and sounds like you are getting the hang of drawing blood .. You could shop around for an auto feeder, many of us here use them .. I have the 5 compartment auto feeder .. I think I got it off of amazon.com

Anyways, just wanted to stop in and say Hi, and welcome!
 
Congrats and welcome to the Vampire Club....We knew you could do it!!!! :RAHCAT

You will be surprised at just how far and fast those numbers will fall once all the dry food is gone. Maxwell went from 485, to the 200s then off insulin in about 2 weeks, as he got the dry food out of his system. Now he runs only slightly higher than the civies. (Civies in the 50s, Maxwell in the 60s).

Mel, Maxwell and The Fur Gang
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top