Diabetic cat with a diabetic (human) dad

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Nicktopus

Member Since 2014
Hi everyone,

Yesterday I received the news that our adopted cat Eva is a diabetic. To give some background, she is a stray who has grown very fond of my partner and I (as well as out two cats) over the last 6 months or so and now spends most of her time at home with us - we've always let her eat with our other two and they like having her around. However, unlike our other two, we had not had her insured (we always figured she had an owner out there somewhere), so when she began to lose weight and pee/drink a lot we took her to our local vets to check for a microchip. Needless to say, she had none, so we decided to do what we could to look after her ourselves. A couple of tests later and it was confirmed that she is now a diabetic. Now, since she's not insured, we are dreading finding out about the cost it's likely to entail and the initial numbers we've been given are worrying.

However, the one possibility I am trying to investigate is what treatment (if any) is suitable for both human and cat diabetics. I have been a type 1 diabetic for many years and am well stocked with Novorapid and Lantus insulin as well as (human) glucometer and test strips. A little preliminary searching of the net suggests that Lantus is a good match for cats as well as humans, though I don't know yet if this is typical in the UK. Similarly, our vet has advised that the best practice is to leave Eva with them for a day over which they can monitor her sugar levels and work out a suitable insulin dose for her, followed by another stay a week later to confirm or amend the dosage. I'm not a vet, so the temptation is to go with her more expert advice, but again reading the boards it seems that a lot of people with diabetic cats find that home monitoring is fine from the start (I should mention that my being diabetic didn't come up in my initial conversation with the vet, so it may even be that when I next talk to her she agrees with me!).

If anyone is in a similar situation or can shed any light on how diabetic treatment and lifestyle compares for cats and humans, that would be great!

Nick
 
Lantus is a great insulin for cats. I don't know if your insurance is paying for your insulin and glucometer and test strips, but that would be a great way to save costs, if you could share with Eva. Once you're home testing, you don't have to pay for the vet to do it, you just tell them the numbers you get in a stress free environment at home. Cats often have higher blood glucose numbers while staying at the vet. The only other cost that I can think of, is food. After you start home testing, you'll want to get her on a low carb wet food, and only low carb or no carb treats (like all meat).
I would suggest that you go read the Stickies at the top of the page over in the Lantus Tight Regulation Forum.
It's a lot of information, so don't be overwhelmed, just read as much as you can now, and more later.
Ask all the questions you have. We're here to help :)
Best Of Luck to you and Eva.
:YMHUG:
You and her will become closer than ever ;-)
 
Over the counter, low carb, canned or raw food is the way to go.

Pop over to Cat Info for an explanation why plus a comprehensive food list for shopping in North America. Two inexpensive options are Friskies pates and Fancy Feast Classic Pates.

Make any food changes gradually - about 20-25% new food each day - to reduce the chances of GI upset.
 
You mentioned you were in the UK. You might want to look at this food list for some food recommendations across the pond.

Canned cat food for EUROPEANS and INTERNATIONAL buyers Lots of suggestions there for foods available in the UK. Member Dr. Schroedinger put together a nice spreadsheet with foods too. Here's a link to that list. Useful UK Food List for Brits

European vets are required by law to prescribe Caninsulin as the first insulin used for pets. If you have access to Lantus, that is a very good insulin for cats.
 
Many thanks for the responses - finding out that Lantus is well-suited to cats is fantastic news!
We are indeed based in the UK and so I suppose our vet will advise we try Caninsulin - but hopefully she will still have some experience of Lantus-based programmes.
I'm sure there is advice on what dosage to start her off with elsewhere on the website (and I will certainly do plenty more research before going ahead), but if anyone has any advice on this then I'd certainly appreciate it:)
Thanks for the food advice too - I now have plenty of info on what to buy and where and will be shopping for some after leaving work today. I gather the best process is to move her onto a low-carb food and test her sugars regularly for a few days before introducing insulin, so combining this with BJM's advice - should I gradually change her over to the low-carb food over 3/4 days, then continue to test sugars for a few days once she's on fully low-carb diet, then introduce insulin - do I have this right?
I'll have to make sure to stop her finishing our other two cats' dinners off as she was a bit of a piglet even before she became ill, but that's doable:)

Again thanks for the advice, it's great to know there's such an active and supportive network of fellow cat-lovers out there!
 
Hello Nick,welcome from another diabetic cat parent in the UK.
It is all rather daunting when you start off on this journey,but you will find amazing support from this forum,the experienced members are very knowledgable on all aspects of FD,I cannot give you advise on insulin,only to say Bailey is on Lantus,and I do believe it to be one of the most popular insulins for cats.
As far as food is concerned you might like to take a look at The Happy Kitty Company web site,they import some of the best quality,grain free cat foods from Germany.
Good luck,if you need any more UK info don't hesitate to ask. Diane
Where abouts in the UK are you?
 
Hi Diane, thanks for the welcome and advice - we're in Portsmouth on the South Coast by the way:)
It's good to know that Lantus can be prescribed here in the UK so presumably vets should be familiar with it (even if they can't prescribe it in the first instance). Do you use the 3ml insulin pen for it? I have one of these to hand and 8mm needles that go with it - quite short by human standards but do you think they are appropriate for cats also?
The Happy Kitty Company looks great - I have a list of foods to look out for now but it's hard to resist a food called 'Om Nom Nom'!:)
 
Hello and Welcome ! :cool:

I too took in a good natured neighborhood stray 6 years ago, only to find out he was diabetic - and our journey began.

You have much in your favor - you have first hand experience and understanding of diaibetes and Lantus.
You also found this community - it is the best place you could be.

I used Lantus for my sugar-kitty Black Kitty and recommend it highly.
Nicktopus said:
I gather the best process is to move her onto a low-carb food and test her sugars regularly for a few days before introducing insulin, so combining this with BJM's advice - should I gradually change her over to the low-carb food over 3/4 days, then continue to test sugars for a few days once she's on fully low-carb diet, then introduce insulin - do I have this right?
Click to expand...
That would be perfect.
While you are transitioning to wet low carb food, pop over to Lantus Land where you will find everything you need to know about using Lantus in general and also the specifics of the protocol followed, Start with the 'New to the Group' starred post at the top of the topics section.

You will also find instructions there about how to set up a spreadsheet to track Evas BG numbers - very important - I recommend you set one up asap - even before insulin is started. the change in diet itself can have quite an impact on BGs. The data you collect is key to dosing decisions and helps us to best help you and Eva.

See you in Lantus Land :cool:
 
Hi Nick!

Nicktopus said:
Do you use the 3ml insulin pen for it? I have one of these to hand and 8mm needles that go with it - quite short by human standards but do you think they are appropriate for cats also?
Click to expand...

If you're talking about the needle tips that come with the pens, then no, we don't recommend using those on our kitties mainly because you can only dose from the pen in whole units when using them. Since our kitties are so much smaller than humans, this means they require a lot less insulin (usual starting dose is around 1u depending on the size of the cat) and the dose increases are usually done at .25u at a time.

Instead, we prefer to use the pen as a mini vial and use a 3/10cc, u100 syringe to draw from the pen (either "long" 1/2" or "short" 5/16" needles). If you can find syringes with half-unit markings, it makes it easier to spot those quarter unit doses.
 
Hi Nick and welcome to the board from another UKer. I know the Portsmouth area well, I was born in Southsea and my family live in the area.

I don't have a lot to add to what others have said but I've asked one of our very experienced UKers to look at your post and see if she has something helpful to say. Meanwhile, keep posting here with any questions big or small, this board is amazing!

Best of luck

Diana (in Surrey)
 
Hi Nick, and welcome (from yet another UK'er!),

As Deb pointed out vets in the UK almost always prescribe Caninsulin as a first insulin, because the law requires them to prescribe a veterinary medicine first (and Caninsulin is currently the only suitable veterinary insulin for cats in the UK). Caninsulin is what's called a 'U40' insulin, which means there are 40 units of insulin per ml. Caninsulin requires syringes that are compatible with U40 insulin, so, the syinges that are suitable for Lantus (which is a U100 insulin, or 100 units of insulin per ml) are not suitable for Caninsulin.

Your vet can supply you with Caninsulin syringes but you will probably find them much cheaper online.

If it becomes evident that Caninsulin isn't working well for your cat then you should have the right, under the 'cascade system', to 'cascade' to the next medicine on the list that could be of benefit. In your case that would mean opting for a 'human use' insulin for your cat. In the UK that can mean either Lantus, Levemir, or Hypurin Bovine PZI. Since you are familiar with Lantus your vet may be happy for you to use that....

If you do get to use Lantus for your cat then, again, you can buy syringes online. You can get .3ml U100 syringes that measure half units (very useful for measuring small doses) from several sources including vetuk.co.uk here: http://www.vetuk.co.uk/veterinary-suppl ... demi-p-296 (They also sell Caninsulin syringes :-) )

Regarding the vet wanting to keep your cat in the clinic while the insulin dosage is established; well, there seems to be no 'hard and fast' rule about this in the UK. It varies from vet to vet. The vet who diagnosed my cat's diabetes just wanted to prescribe a starting dose of insulin and see how my cat coped with that. The second vet I saw wanted to keep my cat in the clinic for a day to establish what a given dose of insulin did over the course of an 8 hour period. (These days, that same vet just asks me for the blood glucose data that I've collected from my cat myself...!)

Probably the most useful thing you can do for your cat is to learn to test her blood glucose yourself. It's not as hard as it sounds. Most folks test on the outer edge of the cat's ear. There are very few nerve endings there, so it's nothing at all like the sensation of testing your own fingers. And, by rewarding each test (or attempted test) with a treat or two, or a cuddle/grooming session, this can actually become a really positive experience for your cat and one they can come to enjoy. Honestly!

Oh, yes, and regarding food, if you can possibly wean your cat onto low carb wet/canned before starting on insulin that can be very beneficial.

Incidentally, my own diabetic boy, Bertie, was also a stray who moved in with us... ;-)

Again, welcome to FDMB, and do ask any questions at all that you want to.

Eliz
 
Just a note: it is possible to use U-100 syringes with a U-40 insulin. Basically, every mark on the syringe is multiplied by 0.40. We have it set up in a table, or you can make one in a spreadsheet very quickly.
 
Hi Nick,
I see Diana & Elizabeth have posted to answer your queries,that is good,they have a wealth of knowledge on FD.
Good luck, hope all goes well for you and Eva.

Diane
 
BJM said:
Just a note: it is possible to use U-100 syringes with a U-40 insulin. Basically, every mark on the syringe is multiplied by 0.40. We have it set up in a table...
Click to expand...

Oh, Duh!
Yes, of course, BJ, thanks. I completely forgot about that in my blurb about syringes (bit of a 'blonde moment' going on there... :roll: )
 
Thanks everyone, loads of great advice to be getting on with!:)
I'll be sure to put a spreadsheet together over the weekend for Eva, they seem like a great idea.
I picked up some cans of Butchers classic fish yesterday which I gather are quite low-carb (perhaps not the best, but over the weekend I'll have a look around some local dedicated pet stores to see what other options are available locally).
I started checking Eva's sugars last night, she was at 19.7 before bed and 22.3 first thing this morning, but I'm hoping this will drop as we switch her onto more of the lower-carb food and phase out the whiskas.
Happily Eva has (so far) had no objections to having her blood sugars tested and seems to like the new food...
 
Wow, well done, Nick! "I started checking Eva's blood sugars last night..." Just like that?!? Most people take weeks or months to get their first test, so that's amazing. Remember the little treats after each test, so that Eva doesn't get fed-up with them if you're planning to do a few over a short period of time (a "curve", which is what they would be doing at the vet, but if you can do that yourself you'll save a lot of money (for you) and stress (for Eva)!

Butchers Classic is probably one of the lowest-carb foods you can buy over the counter in the UK. Possibly don't go overboard on the fish, mix it with some meat varieties if you can. Whiskas (or Felix) in jelly should be ok too really, just avoid the gravy varieties which are higher in carbs and at this stage you want to be seeing what you can achieve with lower-carb food alone.

Well done again, and keep us posted!

Diana
 
Hi NIck,
If you are looking for food you can buy locally check out Natures Menu,and Lilys Kitchen,I use both for Bailey but the ones that are the best value,and have the right ingredients are on the Happy Kitty Co website.you could also think about cooking fresh chicken,and adding it to the tinned,BJM gave me this good piece of advise.Also pick up some freeze dried treats for when you do your bg testing,it's always good to give them a treat afterwards,I use the freeze dried dog treats as B prefers them to the cat ones. Hope all is good with you,I believe we are in for another bad storm later today,keep the kitties in!
 
Per Dr Pierson of Cat Info, you can add about 20-25% plain meat or poultry to the canned food and portion out from there. I'd used cooked unless you're feeding raw. More than that and you need to consider adding in supplemental nutrients to ensure a balanced diet.

This dilutes the fat and carb percentages while increasing the protein percentage.
 
Hi Nicktopus & Eva!

Another UKer here. Also in Surrey.

Great job on testing her already. As a diabetic yourself, I reckon you should be an expert pretty quickly!

You're in great hands & are doing excellently already, so I don't think there's much I can add by way of advice.I hope Eva's numbers begin to drop on her new diet. Butcher's Classic is a good food for all kitties (& cheap!), but she'll probably want a bit of variety. I know mine do. Have a look at the HappyKittyCompany.co.uk & Zooplus.co.uk for more. You can find loads of suitable UK foods in the spreadsheet in my signature.

Keep it up!

Juliet
xx
 
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