diabetic cat on Lantus - unable to regulate

[Laura & Chanel]

Hello,

My name is Laura Cristea and my cat's name is Chanel. Chanel is a 13-year old long-hair Siamese beauty and she was diagnosed with diabetes at the end of October 2019 during a pre-op for dental cleaning. She is on Lantus, currently got her up to 1.5U twice a day. She is on a mix of wet and dry food (we try to implement the YoungAgain Zero food but she seems to have a food intolerance with strong abdominal cramps to it, maybe pork?).
Chanel does not behave like a diabetic meaning, no ravenous appetite, not excessive drinking (approx 100 ml water a day and if it is not Zero water, she just does not drink at all) and using the literbox 1-2 times a day. Also, she is a total cat meaning she mostly sleeps during day and gets active at night. However, the change to the new YA food got her so bloated that she just did not want to eat or drink, so currently we have her on Famotidine and she seems to do better. Still, she does try to do the right thing in choosing food and goes for 5-10 pieces of YA food in spite of the fact that she had the old food also available (the one with 30-40% carbs).
We ordered Dr. Elsey's Cleanprotein Chicken Formula (still waiting for Fedex to deliver it) and we are quite anxious because that food also has hydrolyzed pork as 3rd ingredient (not 1st ingredient like YA). The wet food she eats is Fancy Feast Natural White Chicken and Shredded Beef in Delicate Broth. Chanel does not like fish and she gets stressed if you try to change even something small (we tried to get her a better liter and she did not use the literbox for two days; we changed back to the cheap one and she went in and use it immediately).
Today is the third time we attempted a BG curve. The values seem to be lower always before insulin dosing. The vet considers that she is not regulated, which probably might be true (although we still did not do a fructosamine or a T4 testing to establish diabetes for sure). In spite of her 400s values, she never had pancreatitis, nor ketoacidosis and when in 300s, the urinalysis performed at the hospital showed nothing unusual, just normal glucose traces that you would find in a healthy individual.
I am not a diabetes specialist so I need your help, if possible. Today she was 147 at 6 am, three hours later she was 282 and another three hours later she was 351. She is not highly stressed and I can guarantee for my shots to go under her skin. Also the Lantus is new and she had the same pattern previously as well. I will continue to do the BG curve but I am just wondering at this point what to do. Almost always, 11-12 hours later, her BG seems better than the day before or than after 3-6 hours since dosing. I uploaded the excel here, maybe someone can enlighten me because I am at loss. Please help me with an advice. At this time I am trying to get the BG curve as long as I can, hopefully over 12-hour watch. Thank you very much and sorry for the long posting. Laura

 

[Briere Fur Mom]

Welcome! You're in the right place. I'm sure one of the pro's will be around shortly to help get you started on the forum.
I look forward to seeing you get setup and starting your daily threads. Can't wait to see Chanel make some progress! GL and hang in there. It gets easier!

 

[Laura & Chanel]

Thank you so much for making me feel welcome! I just did another BG test and now she increased to 395. I am beyond confused and wondering if actually I am getting her to throw more glucose in the system because of the insulin. Maybe I should lower the insulin for a couple of days and see how she is doing then. I had like 2 or 3 vets telling me that she does not have diabetes but the diabetic stage was triggered by her dental infection and one of them told me to hold off the insulin for a week. I knew the answer but still asked the question: what happens if she really is diabetic? The vet answered: oh well, she will die. Yeah, thank you very much for that kind of advice. I am determined right now to try and do a 24-hour curve or as closest as possible. Her values confuse me especially that she is mostly eating during night, during day she is sleeping or just grooming herself, beauty is such a heavy responsibility and she is so gracious in her task LOL.

 

[tiffmaxee]

Hi and welcome. It will help us help you if you set up the spreadsheet that everyone uses here. Here are the directions.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

Also add a signature that includes type of insulin, cat’s age, weight, other medical issues, type of testing meter you use, food fed and any other info you find important. Since you feed some dry food the method you would use here is SLGS. Read the yellow sticky that explains that.

I have to admit I’d be looking for a new vet unless you like one of the ones you have seen and want that vet to handle everything but diabetes and let us help you with diabetes.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Hello and welcome. We are big fans of low carb wet or raw food here. Is there any particular reason you have to feed dry? Seems you hare having problems with the low carb dry food anyway. In general, dry just isn't good for cats.

As for numbers and dose, it's good do see you are home testing and have started charting it. However, we have a version of spreadsheet that we are used to using. It uses different colour schemes that yours and we often look at blood sugar patterns by colour, which makes it hard to use yours.. The post above gives you a link to the common one used here.

 

[Laura & Chanel]

Hi and welcome. It will help us help you if you set up the spreadsheet that everyone uses here. Here are the directions.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

Also add a signature that includes type of insulin, cat’s age, weight, other medical issues, type of testing meter you use, food fed and any other info you find important. Since you feed some dry food the method you would use here is SLGS. Read the yellow sticky that explains that.

I have to admit I’d be looking for a new vet unless you like one of the ones you have seen and want that vet to handle everything but diabetes and let us help you with diabetes.

I would love to have a new vet. I talked with 4 including one from Canada and changed two of them until now. It is not a matter of money, I just wanted Chanel to get her health back and in remission, if possible. From suggesting dry food like Purina Pro diabetes management that is around 10% to doubling the insulin dose without a scientific explanation, just that another doctor said so etc. They tried to imply that she has a tumor, but would not agree to do a fructosamine or a T4. The poor cat went to ER 6 times in 10 days and that is highly stressful even for a human. If you have a vet you can recommend, I am more than happy to contact, even if it is an online relationship (we are located in Tewksbury, MA, US).
Thank you for the information and for the link. I will start putting my data in it and continue with the BG curve, see where it gets me.

 

[MrWorfMen's Mom]

Hello and welcome to FDMB.

How exactly did your vet arrive at a diagnosis of diabetes? If the diagnosis was based on a single BG test taken in the vet's office, there was only a trace of glucose in the urine and you were not noticing any other classic clinical symptoms of diabetes, that seems like a diagnostic leap on the part of your vet. Vet visits are known to cause BG elevation in cats sometimes by 100 points or more. A trace of glucose in the urine can occur in non-diabetic cats. Add to all of that a dental infection and an elevated BG is not surprising but it shouldn't have been assumed to be diabetes without further testing including a fructosamine test as that would tell you if BG had been elevated over a period of the previous 2 to 3 weeks. Even then, with a dental infection, the fructosamine could have come back elevated and it would seem to me that it would have been prudent to wait for the infection to clear and then run the fructosamine.

With 2 or 3 vets telling you Chanel does not have diabetes, that makes me even more suspicious of the diagnosis.

Why did Chanel have to go to ER 6 times in 10 days? Were those visits since she started on insulin?

 

[Laura & Chanel]

Hello and welcome. We are big fans of low carb wet or raw food here. Is there any particular reason you have to feed dry? Seems you hare having problems with the low carb dry food anyway. In general, dry just isn't good for cats.

As for numbers and dose, it's good do see you are home testing and have started charting it. However, we have a version of spreadsheet that we are used to using. It uses different colour schemes that yours and we often look at blood sugar patterns by colour, which makes it hard to use yours.. The post above gives you a link to the common one used here.

I know, sorry about that. I tried before to sign up here but for some reason, I got some errors. Anyway, I am really happy to be here.
As for the food thing, Chanel loves her Fancy Feast Chicken & Beef in Broth. She cannot have the pate, we tried it after the dental intervention and she had a really bad case of IBD/IBS with bloating, abdominal spasms and flatulence. We stopped that and since she had to re-adjust her chewing method (the vet did not tell us in June that she has dental disease so I realized that for like two weeks Chanel was eating only liquid which obviously got her in starvation mode hence hepatic lipidosis). The vet said that she saw cats with no teeth swallow the food whole. Now, I thought that being a doctor, human or vet, prevention is also important...maybe not for some. Anyway, she lost 4 teeth and she is still adjusting to the chewing method. As for the dry food, she is more like nibbling on it and mostly at night. Since the dry food is bad for her, we tried to find a better dry food or at least safer (YA or Dr. Elsey's). She does not seem to do well on pork, however. Also, she would get really upset if she does not see her bowl there, she just does not want to eat wet food unless I am around and since she is a nibbler, it is quite difficult to deal with the schedule...still working on options.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

but would not agree to do a fructosamine or a T4

Remember, you are the client, and they are providing a service. Ask them to humour you and do the tests. It is your money. There is no harm to doing the tests.

 

[Laura & Chanel]

Hello and welcome to FDMB.

How exactly did your vet arrive at a diagnosis of diabetes? If the diagnosis was based on a single BG test taken in the vet's office, there was only a trace of glucose in the urine and you were not noticing any other classic clinical symptoms of diabetes, that seems like a diagnostic leap on the part of your vet. Vet visits are known to cause BG elevation in cats sometimes by 100 points or more. A trace of glucose in the urine can occur in non-diabetic cats. Add to all of that a dental infection and an elevated BG is not surprising but it shouldn't have been assumed to be diabetes without further testing including a fructosamine test as that would tell you if BG had been elevated over a period of the previous 2 to 3 weeks. Even then, with a dental infection, the fructosamine could have come back elevated and it would seem to me that it would have been prudent to wait for the infection to clear and then run the fructosamine.

With 2 or 3 vets telling you Chanel does not have diabetes, that makes me even more suspicious of the diagnosis.

Why did Chanel have to go to ER 6 times in 10 days? Were those visits since she started on insulin?

I know, at the time I said the same. But the vet told me to start her on insulin even before the dental cleaning and maybe that was a mistake. Chanel was already starving for a couple of weeks at least and the diagnosis yes, it was based on only one BG value and they found glucose in urine at that time, NEVER afterwards. My wild guess is that the body was self-regulating itself and trying to get the blood glucose to normal by renal excretion. The thing is that she told us that the pancreas once compromised, we have to put her down. Since then, every day I am wondering if I kill her slowly with the insulin. Now, if I look at her and according to the pet glucometer she was 395 at 3 pm (EST), she looks mischievous and ready for fun like a very normal cat. When the doctor convinced me to put her on two units, I thought I lost her, she was a vegetable. At this point, I am not sure that the vet is the answer. And this is why I signed up here, because I strongly believe that real life experience might help us than a vet who is not even diabetes specialist. God, that reminds me so much of my husband's GP...totally misdiagnosed him and we had also to visit ER multiple times.
And to answer the last question, yes all the visits were on the insulin. She was given too much and the Fancy Feast pate gave her abdominal pain and cramps (it freaked me out to see her body convulsing like that). Still, the doctor said we need to get the dose higher. At this point I think I actually need to go lower but first I will populate the excel and post it and see what is the general opinion. I may not get her off insulin completely because I do not like to play God but I am considering lowering her dose to 1U from 1.5U for 2-3 days and see what happens.

 

[Laura & Chanel]

Remember, you are the client, and they are providing a service. Ask them to humour you and do the tests. It is your money. There is no harm to doing the tests.

That is absolutely true, but I feel like I am treated like I am a desperate cat lady. I need to change the vet again.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Hi Laura and welcome to the best place you never wanted to be!

There are lots of other foods that are low carb other than the Fancy Feasts. Have you looked at this Food Chart? You want to find foods that are less than 10% carbs.

Some cats don't tolerate gluten and some of the FF pates include it so another food may help. Also, texture can be really important for some cats. My China hated the "shreds" and "bits" but loved the pates....but other cats can be totally opposite.

I also question the advice you've been given. There's absolutely no reason to put your cat down due to diabetes. In fact, a cat that's being treated almost always dies of something else like cancer, heart disease or kidney disease, NOT diabetes! I'm also wondering if your cat is truly diabetic at all too. If you do choose to find another vet, call first and ask questions (usually you have to ask the vet to call you back which happens after office hours most of the time....and if they won't do it, that's good to know too!) One of the first questions I think I'd ask is "I've been told my cat is diabetic but my vet doesn't want to do a fructosamine test. Can I get one from you?"

Once I got my script for Lantus, I never took China back to the vet for her diabetes. Luckily, the pharmacy in Canada that I got her insulin from doesn't require a new script every year like we do in the US. All I had to do was re-order!

I chose to listen to the people here over any of the 5 vets we tried. When I did have to take her in for something else, I'd just start the conversation with "she's on X units of Lantus and her blood glucose runs between Y and Z. Today we're here for (fill in the blank)"....and that was pretty much the end of it. If the vet did feel like she had to say something, I'd nod my head, smile and say "I'll think about that"....and come right back here to discuss it with the "real" experts.

Hang in there. You've got this!!

 

[Laura & Chanel]

Hi Laura and welcome to the best place you never wanted to be!

There are lots of other foods that are low carb other than the Fancy Feasts. Have you looked at this Food Chart? You want to find foods that are less than 10% carbs.

Some cats don't tolerate gluten and some of the FF pates include it so another food may help. Also, texture can be really important for some cats. My China hated the "shreds" and "bits" but loved the pates....but other cats can be totally opposite.

I also question the advice you've been given. There's absolutely no reason to put your cat down due to diabetes. In fact, a cat that's being treated almost always dies of something else like cancer, heart disease or kidney disease, NOT diabetes! I'm also wondering if your cat is truly diabetic at all too. If you do choose to find another vet, call first and ask questions (usually you have to ask the vet to call you back which happens after office hours most of the time....and if they won't do it, that's good to know too!) One of the first questions I think I'd ask is "I've been told my cat is diabetic but my vet doesn't want to do a fructosamine test. Can I get one from you?"

Once I got my script for Lantus, I never took China back to the vet for her diabetes. Luckily, the pharmacy in Canada that I got her insulin from doesn't require a new script every year like we do in the US. All I had to do was re-order!

I chose to listen to the people here over any of the 5 vets we tried. When I did have to take her in for something else, I'd just start the conversation with "she's on X units of Lantus and her blood glucose runs between Y and Z. Today we're here for (fill in the blank)"....and that was pretty much the end of it. If the vet did feel like she had to say something, I'd nod my head, smile and say "I'll think about that"....and come right back here to discuss it with the "real" experts.

Hang in there. You've got this!!

Chanel is actually on Fancy Feast Natural White Chicken and Shredded Beef in Delicate Broth (as per the chart is 73% protein, 27% fat, 0% carbs) and she was on this food for the past 2 YEARS. I mean, come on, she was on wet food and low carbs if not zero, and still got diabetes. I am not sure at this point. I love her to death and getting her to the point she was laying down without moving 3 hours after 2 units of insulin got me really angry at myself for listening to doctors. I tried to explain that she is easy to stress and maybe it is just the stress: dental infection, starvation, unable to eat properly etc. I was told that stress hyperglycemia does not take days. Oh well, it does if you are in constant pain and eating things that wreak havoc in your body. Besides that you get insulin that gets doubled in dose every couple of days. Yes, I was a complete idiot, but that stops now. I am working on the excel so I can post it, then continue the BG curve as long as I can into the night, then we shall see. Another problem Chanel has is that she likes to eat small meals, wet food like 30 g, dry food like 5-10 pieces. So, feeding her every 12 hours is out of question because she would starve. Another thing is that she always seems to have an appetite AFTER the insulin injection, like 3 hours later. At night, she is walking around (now, back then she was lethargic almost the entire day) and jumping in bed to play with her balls. She likes to have me hold the can of wet food for her while eating and although I tried to feed her wet food only, she was so much against it that she just stopped eating. It was a battle of nerves and I lost it. So, she has the dry food (YoungAgain) that she can nibble. The moment the dry food reappeared, she returned to her naughty behavior and behaves like she does not even have diabetes.
I attached the picture where she is 3 hours after 2 units of Lantus.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

No need to feed every 12 hours. Plenty of people with grazers here. We only suggest that when you are new, you take food away for the two hours before preshot, as otherwise that number will be influenced by food.

 

[Laura & Chanel]

No need to feed every 12 hours. Plenty of people with grazers here. We only suggest that when you are new, you take food away for the two hours before preshot, as otherwise that number will be influenced by food.

OMG, are you serious? All the vets told me to feed her, wait 30 minutes then do the BG and dose her according to BG. Good grief, I did it so wrong for almost to months?! OMG

 

[Wendy&Neko]

We test, feed, then shoot here, all within 10-15 minutes. But they don't have to eat it all right away. Lantus is much gentler. With the older harsher insulins, it was important to get all their food in early. Sounds like your vet was more familiar with the older insulins. Not uncommon by the way.

 

[MrWorfMen's Mom]

OMG! Your vet(s) are clueless. They are treating Lantus like an older insulin but even then they have the test then feed backwards. You take food away two hours before shot time, then test kitty and give insulin. Test, feed, shoot all in a few minutes. You just need to know kitty is eating to give Lantus even if they don't finish their dinner immediately. Many of shoot while kitty is munching.

 

[Laura & Chanel]

We test, feed, then shoot here, all within 10-15 minutes. But they don't have to eat it all right away. Lantus is much gentler. With the older harsher insulins, it was important to get all their food in early. Sounds like your vet was more familiar with the older insulins. Not uncommon by the way.

Oh dear, what have I done these couple of months. I feel like such an idiot.
I also attached a picture from last year when although she was chubby, she was playing like nothing else and her medical tests were just for fun. She likes posing serious, although I have some very 'compromising' catly pictures where she is belly up because football is total boredom for her.

 

[Laura & Chanel]

OMG! Your vet(s) are clueless. They are treating Lantus like an older insulin but even then they have the test then feed backwards. You take food away two hours before shot time, then test kitty and give insulin. Test, feed, shoot all in a few minutes. You just need to know kitty is eating to give Lantus even if they don't finish their dinner immediately. Many of shoot while kitty is munching.

I am so so upset right now. I need to get this thing right. Also, not even sure what kind of regulation I am trying to follow. I was going for TR but since her BG values are going up after dosing, not sure what it is happening or what protocol I should follow. I am still working on the excel.
Thank you all for the advice and oh man, I wish I knew that the vet was wrong.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

You're not an idiot. I suspect everyone here has felt the same way. You were following the instructions from your vet.

As others have suggested, using our spreadsheet template will help enormously. Not everyone has Excel. We use Google docs for the spreadsheet so it is easily viewable and you don't need your own software. For those of us who have been around here for a while, we're pretty wedded to our color scheme. So, if it's not too much trouble.....

Lots of vets tell people to feed their cat only twice a day. It puts a huge burden on a healing pancreas to load food only twice a day. Like Wendy indicated, many of the cats here graze and it's fine. The reality is that if vets get 30 minutes of education on nutrition, it's a lot. They rely on the "wisdom" of the people selling them prescription food for information. The people selling them food have degrees in marketing, not nutrition -- let alone animal or feline nutrition. This site on feline nutrition, that's authored by a vet, is very helpful.

Did the vet actually draw labs for a fructosamine level? You are absolutely correct that if Chanel was stressed for weeks, there's a possibility that the fructosamine was also elevated. (Fructosamine is similar to a hemoglobin A1c that is used in humans to diagnose diabetes. It's an average of glucose levels over several weeks.) Pain, any kind of infection or inflammation such as from gingivitis, GI issues, etc. can cause stress which causes stress hormones to be released which then potentially elevates glucose levels. It might be helpful to get a fructosamine test if things have settled down a bit.

Lantus dosing is not based on the pre-shot number. It's based on the nadir -- the lowest point in the cycle. It will be helpful if you can get some tests during the day and especially before you go to bed at night.

I realize that Boston may be a bit of a drive but Angell Memorial is one of the best vet practices in Massachusetts, if not the country. A former member here and my sister swore by Dr. Brum. (He's an internal medicine vet.) Even if it's a matter of a second option, you may want to consider having them see Chanel.

 

[Laura & Chanel]

You're not an idiot. I suspect everyone here has felt the same way. You were following the instructions from your vet.

As others have suggested, using our spreadsheet template will help enormously. Not everyone has Excel. We use Google docs for the spreadsheet so it is easily viewable and you don't need your own software. For those of us who have been around here for a while, we're pretty wedded to our color scheme. So, if it's not too much trouble.....

Lots of vets tell people to feed their cat only twice a day. It puts a huge burden on a healing pancreas to load food only twice a day. Like Wendy indicated, many of the cats here graze and it's fine. The reality is that if vets get 30 minutes of education on nutrition, it's a lot. They rely on the "wisdom" of the people selling them prescription food for information. The people selling them food have degrees in marketing, not nutrition -- let alone animal or feline nutrition. This site on feline nutrition, that's authored by a vet, is very helpful.

Did the vet actually draw labs for a fructosamine level? You are absolutely correct that if Chanel was stressed for weeks, there's a possibility that the fructosamine was also elevated. (Fructosamine is similar to a hemoglobin A1c that is used in humans to diagnose diabetes. It's an average of glucose levels over several weeks.) Pain, any kind of infection or inflammation such as from gingivitis, GI issues, etc. can cause stress which causes stress hormones to be released which then potentially elevates glucose levels. It might be helpful to get a fructosamine test if things have settled down a bit.

Lantus dosing is not based on the pre-shot number. It's based on the nadir -- the lowest point in the cycle. It will be helpful if you can get some tests during the day and especially before you go to bed at night.

I realize that Boston may be a bit of a drive but Angell Memorial is one of the best vet practices in Massachusetts, if not the country. A former member here and my sister swore by Dr. Brum. (He's an internal medicine vet.) Even if it's a matter of a second option, you may want to consider having them see Chanel.

Thank you so much for the information. I feel like an idiot because it is my responsibility to take care of Chanel and until now I did a lousy job. Anyway, now she is decreasing in values. She was 395 three hours ago, now she is 385. I will try to do more testing, hopefully until tomorrow morning. However, I am wondering what dose I need to give her now. Should I still go with 1.5 or should I go to 1U and see if in a 2-3 days her BG goes lower (since she seems to have the BG values increasing when insulin dosage is increased). Any advice for tonight's dose? I cannot give her the dose just now, she is bathing extensively always after eating and she is very methodical and takes her time.
Yes, I do agree that a fructosamine is needed at some point. How can I get to keep her grazing if she would not eat wet food unless I am at home?
Thank you so much for the info on Dr. Brum. I will definitely call to make an appointment and hopefully Chanel will like the doctor. The one with dental cleaning she absolutely despised. She would have panic attack just knowing that she goes to that vet.

 

[Laura & Chanel]

If I have to go by nadir, from the values I have now, the lowest BG was pre-insulin this morning at 6.00 am. The value was 147

 

[Sue and Luci]

Hello Laura, I see you've gotten some wonderful advice above!

Hoping to see your Spreadsheet set up soon - so we can all see what's been going on with the numbers.

Don't beat yourself up for listening to your vets - how could you have known they were giving you bad information? If I'd listened to my first vet my Luci would have been euthanized within a week or so of her diagnosis. But like you, I found this group and I stopped listening to vets about anything diabetes related. I only take Luci to the vet for other things - I do mention that she is diabetic and I'm treating her - but that's where the conversation about that topic stops - of course they always want to tell me what to feed her and their experience with remission..blah, blah, blah....I just say, thank you and move along to why we're there. I have found that this group of folks with their collective wisdom and experience will give you far more help than any vet you've seen - if you need a better vet for a specific issue it sounds as if you've been given a recommendation (above)...

Looking forward to seeing your post tomorrow - and every day - to let us know how Chanel is progressing.

 

[Laura & Chanel]

Hello Laura, I see you've gotten some wonderful advice above!

Hoping to see your Spreadsheet set up soon - so we can all see what's been going on with the numbers.

Don't beat yourself up for listening to your vets - how could you have known they were giving you bad information? If I'd listened to my first vet my Luci would have been euthanized within a week or so of her diagnosis. But like you, I found this group and I stopped listening to vets about anything diabetes related. I only take Luci to the vet for other things - I do mention that she is diabetic and I'm treating her - but that's where the conversation about that topic stops - of course they always want to tell me what to feed her and their experience with remission..blah, blah, blah....I just say, thank you and move along to why we're there. I have found that this group of folks with their collective wisdom and experience will give you far more help than any vet you've seen - if you need a better vet for a specific issue it sounds as if you've been given a recommendation (above)...

Looking forward to seeing your post tomorrow - and every day - to let us know how Chanel is progressing.

Thank you Sue. I must say that all the babies photos are just adorable. I love them all. I am reading on the Feline Nutrition website (thank you Sienne) on how to get Chanel to renounce her want for dry food. It will be challenging to try again. Last time I tried that, she woke me up 3-4 times a night meowing to wake up the whole neighborhood. And in spite of me feeding her the wet food, she would keep meowing. I will try again, not sure about how to figure out a daily schedule (I am sure the night schedule will be set up by Chanel in no time). I just gave her 1 unit tonight instead of 1.5. I will try and keep it for a few days and see if her BGs are getting better.
Thank you to everybody here!!! This is a wonderful forum and you girls (and guys?) are PURE AWESOMENESS. I will keep reading the materials but could you please point me in the direction of some articles with the tight regulation and the other protocol SLSG or something like that? I do not know much about it (TR I know from Tilly's webpage).
Thank you very much again. Tonight will be a long night.

 

[Sue and Luci]

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/

At the top of this forum are the 'stickies' - with the yellow tabs next to them. All the really important stuff is there

 

[Laura & Chanel]

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/

At the top of this forum are the 'stickies' - with the yellow tabs next to them. All the really important stuff is there

Thank you Sue. Awesome! Reading material. Chanel just spit out the Famotidine. I guess some time it simply does not work. At the end of the procedure we had both our faces covered in water and her saliva. But she looks content about her achievement.

 

[Sue and Luci]

Thank you Sue. Awesome! Reading material. Chanel just spit out the Famotidine. I guess some time it simply does not work. At the end of the procedure we had both our faces covered in water and her saliva. But she looks content about her achievement.

I have a hard time pilling Luci too...the only thing I can get down her is liquid...in a syringe -and then she hates me for it...

You're on the right road now - just follow along, read everything you can and take it one day at a time.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

For meals when you're not around, a timed feeder is a lifesaver. They come in 2 compartment and 5 compartment varieties.

An alternative to dry food is freeze dried raw food. ZiwiPeak is one brand that has air dried raw. It looks like jerky treats. There are other companies that have freeze dried raw that give a similar crunch as dry. I like the ZiwiPeak because it comes in novel proteins and there are no gums or carrageenan which are not great for a cat with GI issues.

For some cats, putting a tablet into a gelcap works far better than trying to get the kitty to swallow the tablet. Capsuline is a company that makes pet-sized capsules.

 

[Laura & Chanel]

For meals when you're not around, a timed feeder is a lifesaver. They come in 2 compartment and 5 compartment varieties.

An alternative to dry food is freeze dried raw food. ZiwiPeak is one brand that has air dried raw. It looks like jerky treats. There are other companies that have freeze dried raw that give a similar crunch as dry. I like the ZiwiPeak because it comes in novel proteins and there are no gums or carrageenan which are not great for a cat with GI issues.

For some cats, putting a tablet into a gelcap works far better than trying to get the kitty to swallow the tablet. Capsuline is a company that makes pet-sized capsules.

Wow, did not know that about the tablet and capsule trick. As for the freeze dried food, I will try and see if she changed her mind. We tried before and she did not even want to come close to it. But it is true, we did not try the jerk-like products, so we will give it a try. Thank you for sharing the tips and please keep them coming, I am writing them down and making notes on my to-do list. Thank you Sienne.

 

[Laura & Chanel]

Marje, I want to apologize. I did not realize that I did exactly what you said not to do: sending a request to access the templates. Got it, reading the instructions and follow them to the letter. Thank you very much for the information and hopefully I can get them ready sometime tonight or tomorrow.

 

[Sue and Luci]

You may want to reply like this: @Marje and Gracie - so she'll get the tag...

Also need to get your signature up and going as soon as you can - are you in the US?

Apologies if I'm being redundant - but it's getting late for me and I'm tired (baked a lot of holiday treats today)...and I'm worn to a frazzle...

 

[Laura & Chanel]

You may want to reply like this: @Marje and Gracie - so she'll get the tag...

Also need to get your signature up and going as soon as you can - are you in the US?

Apologies if I'm being redundant - but it's getting late for me and I'm tired (baked a lot of holiday treats today)...and I'm worn to a frazzle...

no, please, you are not redundant. there is so much information that I am a little overwhelmed by it. Also a little run down by the hectic schedule I have with Chanel keeping me up at night. Not sure I understand how to reply to Marje. I just put in the window @Marje and Gracie?

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Using the "@" sign with a member's name is a way to tag them and they will get a note in their Alerts. (See the top right side of the page. You can also send a PM (personal message). You click on Conversations (next to Alerts) and can send a message that way.

 

[Laura & Chanel]

Using the "@" sign with a member's name is a way to tag them and they will get a note in their Alerts. (See the top right side of the page. You can also send a PM (personal message). You click on Conversations (next to Alerts) and can send a message that way.

oh, OK. Man, I must be really old...and I am tired which does not improve the situation. Thank you Sienne

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

ha, ha, ha -- I'm older.

 

[Laura & Chanel]

ha, ha, ha -- I'm older.

maybe LOL, but since Chanel got her diabetes diagnosis, I did not dye my hair, not grooming my eyebrows etc. I feel like Yoda except I am not yet green, more like rotten brownish someone ewww. She wakes me up every two hours since end of September, it is like having a baby. And sometimes I really think she is doing it intentionally because the only thing she wants is petting her at 2 am, then goes to another room and meows me to come there and pet her in that room too. Thankfully, we have only only three rooms and she does not want me to pet her in the bathrooms as well. I am not a pet owner, I am pet owned LOL but in the words of Spongebob: I am ugly and I am proud LOL

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

I mean, come on, she was on wet food and low carbs if not zero, and still got diabetes.

Diabetes has a genetic component too. I'd bet if you could look into her parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc. you'd probably find other diabetics too. Being overweight, eating high carb foods and getting steroids are risk factors, but there's usually a propensity for diabetes in her genes somewhere.

She likes to have me hold the can of wet food for her while eating

Hahahaha....I had to either hold the bowl for China or actually spoon feed her. If I just dumped it into a bowl and left her, she wouldn't touch it.

I feel like an idiot because it is my responsibility to take care of Chanel and until now I did a lousy job.

You are absolutely NOT an idiot!! There are lots of people here because they did exactly what you did...they listened to their vets and did exactly what they said. When their cat continued to do poorly or they had a hypoglycemic crisis in the middle of the night, they started to research and found us!

 

[Laura & Chanel]

Diabetes has a genetic component too. I'd bet if you could look into her parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc. you'd probably find other diabetics too. Being overweight, eating high carb foods and getting steroids are risk factors, but there's usually a propensity for diabetes in her genes somewhere.
She was always chubby, all her life but never had anything, not even a sneeze or a cat hair allergy LOL.


Hahahaha....I had to either hold the bowl for China or actually spoon feed her. If I just dumped it into a bowl and left her, she wouldn't touch it.
I had to to that because when we got her from my husband's youngest daughter, she hid for three months under the dresser. Let me tell you, that dresser is a nasty thing and me being fluffy, I could not squeeze my arm that far, so I would hold the can for her and she was eating....under the dresser. Then she would push it out when she had enough, it was a jail style feeding. But one thing remained: she does not want to eat if I do not hold the can and she would not eat from anyone else even if they hold the can. Not sure if that is love because Chanel is very secretive, but I do know that she slapped me once so hard she had her claws in my temple because she thought I was crying...I was just putting eye drops and I guess I looked sad to her and she wanted me to toughen up. She was the smallest one in her little and she was born without a tail but with an ego that you think she was born from lion's sneeze.


You are absolutely NOT an idiot!! There are lots of people here because they did exactly what you did...they listened to their vets and did exactly what they said. When their cat continued to do poorly or they had a hypoglycemic crisis in the middle of the night, they started to research and found us!

I should have found you sooner. Actually I did but my computer did not let me create an account.

 

[Crista & Ming]

Hi Laura! Welcome to FDMB! I look forward to getting to know you and Chanel! (And who knows.. maybe it will be a short visit )
l

 

[Laura & Chanel]

Hi Laura! Welcome to FDMB! I look forward to getting to know you and Chanel! (And who knows.. maybe it will be a short visit )
l

Hi Crista, let's hope although Chanel is not willing to share anything with me right now. By the way, I tried to upload the spreadsheet but do not know how I can make modifications in it. Should I re-save it?

 

[Crista & Ming]

What do you mean by uploading the spreadsheet?

You don’t need to upload anything as the link will always show the most updated info on the sheet.

 

[Laura & Chanel]

Hi Crista, let's hope although Chanel is not willing to share anything with me right now. By the way, I tried to upload the spreadsheet but do not know how I can make modifications in it. Should I re-save it?

Got it. I am definitely tired and my brain is really going Jell-O.

 

[Crista & Ming]

Got it. I am definitely tired and my brain is really going Jell-O.

Haha! I know the feeling. You have done well today, especially since there’s so much information being shown to you!!!

 

[Laura & Chanel]

Haha! I know the feeling. You have done well today, especially since there’s so much information being shown to you!!!

I know almost everybody went through the same process here. I say almost everybody because I have to think of those cats and their owners struggling to find the right ways to treat diabetes, so that today Chanel and I can be spoon fed the necessary information. For all that and many tears of sadness and happiness, I am grateful to all of you. Being here is an important step in doing the right thing for my beautiful baby.

 

[MrWorfMen's Mom]

Laura, I like to think on the positive side. I doubt there is anyone here who didn't make some mistakes along the way. We all trusted out vets to steer us in the right direction and unfortunately, in most cases that didn't happen. The important thing is that you are being proactive, home testing, researching, learning and doing all you can to help your beautiful Chanel. In my books that makes one top notch kitty Mom and Chanel is in good hands.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Laura

No problem about the SS Great job getting it done!

 

[Charlotte and Lucky’s mom]

Thank you so much for making me feel welcome! I just did another BG test and now she increased to 395. I am beyond confused and wondering if actually I am getting her to throw more glucose in the system because of the insulin. Maybe I should lower the insulin for a couple of days and see how she is doing then. I had like 2 or 3 vets telling me that she does not have diabetes but the diabetic stage was triggered by her dental infection and one of them told me to hold off the insulin for a week. I knew the answer but still asked the question: what happens if she really is diabetic? The vet answered: oh well, she will die. Yeah, thank you very much for that kind of advice. I am determined right now to try and do a 24-hour curve or as closest as possible. Her values confuse me especially that she is mostly eating during night, during day she is sleeping or just grooming herself, beauty is such a heavy responsibility and she is so gracious in her task LOL.

Hi!! Well I am quite astonished by some of the responses you’ve encountered by some of the vets. Have you tried maybe considering Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine in Grafton, MA? They have a small animal clinic which anyone may go to. The faculty is quite large and has many specialists - they maybe able to get her on the right path and then you can continue on with someone a little closer - although45 minutes isn’t that bad. I know when I first started with lantus, my cat’s numbers were all over the place. It is counterintuitive to what you would think should happen but you must remember that this insulin is long acting and therefore you’ll see the numbers rise initially. It does take a lot of testing, charting, and patience but with time and the great senior ( and I don’t mean old, just experienced!!) members on this board, they will provide an abundant amount of advice and steering for you and your kitty! Through my adventure with FD, I have learned that Lantus needs to be given a little time at each dose before you adjust the quantity given as even slight changes too closely can cause the numbers to rapidly change making one think that more or less should be given. Hang on and post frequently as they are here to help!

 

[Laura & Chanel]

Hi!! Well I am quite astonished by some of the responses you’ve encountered by some of the vets. Have you tried maybe considering Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine in Grafton, MA? They have a small animal clinic which anyone may go to. The faculty is quite large and has many specialists - they maybe able to get her on the right path and then you can continue on with someone a little closer - although45 minutes isn’t that bad. I know when I first started with lantus, my cat’s numbers were all over the place. It is counterintuitive to what you would think should happen but you must remember that this insulin is long acting and therefore you’ll see the numbers rise initially. It does take a lot of testing, charting, and patience but with time and the great senior ( and I don’t mean old, just experienced!!) members on this board, they will provide an abundant amount of advice and steering for you and your kitty! Through my adventure with FD, I have learned that Lantus needs to be given a little time at each dose before you adjust the quantity given as even slight changes too closely can cause the numbers to rapidly change making one think that more or less should be given. Hang on and post frequently as they are here to help!

We moved to Massachusetts a little over a year ago, so we do not know our way around here and most definitely totally lost when it is about cat diabetes specialists. I have an appointment on December 17 with with Orla Mahony at Cummings School, but I was hoping to actually not putting Chanel through another round of poking and pricking that will stress her again for days. Also, no matter the dosage of insulin, she seems to have better values in the morning, almost always lower than the previous evening and this is strange for me because that is the time when actually she eats and the time when she gets into her dry food. During day she sleeps and she should not have those high values during day, unless maybe she gets stressed because of the 3-hour testing (I know most people do a 2-hour testing, but I was hoping to give her more time so she will not stress too much). The 1.5U seemed to work since from high 200s at night she came to 147 in the morning. But with the 3-hour testing, she just managed to go higher and higher.

 

[Charlotte and Lucky’s mom]

We moved to Massachusetts a little over a year ago, so we do not know our way around here and most definitely totally lost when it is about cat diabetes specialists. I have an appointment on December 17 with with Orla Mahony at Cummings School, but I was hoping to actually not putting Chanel through another round of poking and pricking that will stress her again for days. Also, no matter the dosage of insulin, she seems to have better values in the morning, almost always lower than the previous evening and this is strange for me because that is the time when actually she eats and the time when she gets into her dry food. During day she sleeps and she should not have those high values during day, unless maybe she gets stressed because of the 3-hour testing (I know most people do a 2-hour testing, but I was hoping to give her more time so she will not stress too much). The 1.5U seemed to work since from high 200s at night she came to 147 in the morning. But with the 3-hour testing, she just managed to go higher and higher.

Orla is great! I think you will like her and I hope you’re experience there will be a good one. We were always instructed not to talk above the client’s head and to always address the client’s concern no matter how small they may seem to us. Something I still practice to this day. Yes, I am a vet. She was there as an intern when I was a student. This board is a fantastic find as they helped me understand lantus - an insulin I have never used. It does require a lot of patience and understanding of your cat’s response to it. But ultimately, patience pants! Everyone of the moderator and veteran users are well knowledgable here on the ins and outs of diabetes. And I will admit, there are many vets that are not asknowledgable and it intimidated by this disease.

 

[Laura & Chanel]

Orla is great! I think you will like her and I hope you’re experience there will be a good one. We were always instructed not to talk above the client’s head and to always address the client’s concern no matter how small they may seem to us. Something I still practice to this day. Yes, I am a vet. She was there as an intern when I was a student. This board is a fantastic find as they helped me understand lantus - an insulin I have never used. It does require a lot of patience and understanding of your cat’s response to it. But ultimately, patience pants! Everyone of the moderator and veteran users are well knowledgable here on the ins and outs of diabetes. And I will admit, there are many vets that are not asknowledgable and it intimidated by this disease.

Hi Charlotte, thank you for the insight. I am still hoping Chanel may not need to see the diabetes specialist, but we keep the appointment, at least for now. Hoping that things will get easier in time and maybe better.