Diabetic cat on insulin not improving, family wants to put him to sleep, but...

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Puppy training pads are a good idea. Thank you, JanetNJ!

Thank you, Beth 73!

My mom is currently putting together his towels for the trip:

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Natalie and Ziggy said:
Puppy training pads are a good idea. Thank you, JanetNJ!

Thank you, Beth 73!

My mom is currently putting together his towels for the trip:

MKboie9.jpg
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Bless your dear mom for all her help :bighug: I know you will all be thrilled when you get Ziggy home with you ... and so will all of us :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug: Prayers upon prayers for safe , uneventful trip and Ziggy to handle it all easily :bighug:
 
I may have missed it in one of the earlier posts, what insulin are you changing to? If it is ProZinc or PZI and you get the U100 syringes from Walmart or any pharmacy, you will need to convert your dose to use these syringes. These are both U40 insulins and normally use a different syringe. You can use the U100 syringes but someone will need to help you with the conversion. If you are using Lantus or Levemir the U100 syringes will work.
 
Puppy pads. Put a few in the carrier and then you can just pull the top soiled one out and the one underneath will be dry.

Agree with the no leash unless you know how he is on one.
 
Has anyone mentioned no insulin on the day you transport. You don't want to risk a hypo or vomiting. Smaller meals might be better also.
 
Lisa and Witn (GA) said:
I may have missed it in one of the earlier posts, what insulin are you changing to? If it is ProZinc or PZI and you get the U100 syringes from Walmart or any pharmacy, you will need to convert your dose to use these syringes. These are both U40 insulins and normally use a different syringe. You can use the U100 syringes but someone will need to help you with the conversion. If you are using Lantus or Levemir the U100 syringes will work.
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I haven't figured out which insulin to change to yet, actually, though I do hope to talk to Ziggy's new vet as soon as possible about it. Thank you for the information! When I do figure out which insulin to change to, I'll definitely keep this in mind.

Love-Paula aka Woodsywife said:
Has anyone mentioned no insulin on the day you transport. You don't want to risk a hypo or vomiting. Smaller meals might be better also.
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Oh, I didn't know that. Thank you for telling me.

Speaking of meals, I was planning on feeding Ziggy twice a day, once at 8 AM and once at 8 PM (trying for twelve hour intervals, to coincide with his insulin shots — I would feed him sooner than 8 PM, but I don't want to make his insulin shots too close together). He's about seven pounds, so I'm trying to figure out how much food he'll need per feeding session. And am I okay to give him a shot every time he eats his dinner?

I'm sorry if those questions seem a little disorganized. I'm about to head off to bed so I can get up early for tomorrow.
 
Beth 73 said:
Natalie, TOTALLY AGREE with Lucy( squalliesmom).... Ziggy must remain in carrier . He will be enduring a lot just traveling . Whatever mess may be made can be cleaned up later but he MUST remain in his carrier. I personally would NOT EVEN OPEN the carrier at all until you have him safely in your apartment so there is no chance he might escape .Praying for an uneventful , safe trip for your mom and you :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
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I agree wholeheartedly!!!
 
DITTO what everyone else has said about leaving the cat in the carrier for the entire trip. Cats do NOT like new and strange things and even the most friendly and laid back cats are prone to freaking out in those circumstances. Even if the cat didn't escape the collar/harness and bolt away (and escaping is is a very strong possibility), I guarantee she wouldn't use the opportunity to relieve herself. Cats are not small dogs...
 
I travelled with my Bagha all the way from Pune, India to Lausanne, Switzerland. 27 hours door-to-door. He was a very chill cat and had planned on the harness and leash to let him out, but it was clear when I tried within seconds that indeed, he was not going to pounce on a bathroom break to pee like a dog would. Granted, he wasn't diabetic. But he only peed once during the whole trip, when the plane took off in Mumbai.

Puppy pads and a spare towel or two are all he will need.
 
Natalie and Ziggy said:
Speaking of meals, I was planning on feeding Ziggy twice a day, once at 8 AM and once at 8 PM (trying for twelve hour intervals, to coincide with his insulin shots — I would feed him sooner than 8 PM, but I don't want to make his insulin shots too close together). He's about seven pounds, so I'm trying to figure out how much food he'll need per feeding session. And am I okay to give him a shot every time he eats his dinner?
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Feeding at each shot time is best. Most cats do better with meals spread out during the day. You will figure out what works for you and Ziggy.

The only thing is not to feed 2 hours before shot, so when you test the number is not food influenced. Otherwise you can feed anytime he wants food. Unregulated cat is literally starving because they can not metabolize food properly. My Smokey was fed every 3 hrs around the clock for various reasons. Now Olive is anywhere between 2-4 hrs. When she is running high she is super hungry. Lately she has been somewhat controlled and is eating 4-5 hrs apart.

My non diabetics eat about every 4 hrs. I'll put a 1/2 can for each down, sometimes they finish it sometimes they leave some but then want to eat in a few hours.

Safe travels, let us know how it goes and when you are home.
 
I somehow must have un-watched this thread. I'm not caught up but I see we're moving to a happier ending. So happy for both of you.
 
JanetNJ said:
Most of the time the insulinx strips have been accurate. Yesterday they were off for me and have me a scare. My cat read 54 on the insulinx strips, but then I tested again with the alpha strips and it was 80. I have a tab on my spreadsheet showing the comparison numbers I have taken so far.
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Ok thank you @JanetNJ
 
Glad he's with you! Poop is the one thing that has had me put cats in the shower (warm water, not much pressure, keep to what is dirty). Another (icky) option is a soaking wet towel (warm too) to wipe it off. Or... brush it? (uck). He'll get clean at some point, though. Look forward to news of your life together!
 
I gave the bath a try, but he really didn’t want to cooperate! Got his feet a little wet, though. Trying to clean him with a towel, but it’s really stuck in there. Half an hour and it’s already a giant mess!

I’m so glad I have him here, though :)

So my parents fed Ziggy this morning (and gave him insulin, even though I think he wasn’t supposed to have any on a travel day). Should I give him a shot while he eats this evening? Or should I wait until tomorrow morning?
 
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Glad you made it home safely. Ziggy might not like the sound of running water. My husband uses a pitcher to pour water constantly while I use comb. I have read the some people actually get in shower holding their cat because cat didn't like standing in water but was okay as long as they were held.
 
Natalie and Ziggy said:
Should I give him a shot while he eats this evening? Or should I wait until tomorrow morning?
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If it's been 12 hours since the morning shot and his blood glucose is high enough to safely shoot, I'd go ahead.....but I'd take into consideration that his BG might be elevated due to stress....so unless he's over 200, I'd probably skip it....and even if he is, I'd probably give a light dose tonight while you're both settling into the new routine
 
Okay. I haven't done his first blood test yet, and he's telling me he's more than ready for dinner right now. Should I go ahead and break the ice with his first reading? Might be a silly question but I do want to make 100% sure!
 
Natalie and Ziggy said:
Might be a silly question but I do want to make 100% sure!
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There's no such thing as a silly question here!!

Natalie and Ziggy said:
Should I go ahead and break the ice with his first reading?
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Might as well jump right in! The sooner you get it over with, the sooner you will have that "first test" over with! (the first one is always the most nerve-wracking)

It's also not safe to give insulin without knowing his BG level first.
 
The poop matter is mostly solved now! He just stinks a little.

Almost got a blood sample, but my roommate walked in and now Ziggy is hiding. At this rate he'll be eating at midnight!
 
I'm just catching up and so glad you will have Ziggy with you soon. BTW, I used the Relion Micro and bought many strips on eBay on auction. Much cheaper than the vet meter and strips. Can't wait to see how the trip worked/.
 
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Natalie and Ziggy said:
The meter says 438 mg/dL (with 4.28 underneath). Does that sound like an actual number this would read, or does that sound like an error?
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That sounds like a valid reading....We see cats over 600 here sometimes. I'd give his insulin (if you can shoot again in 12 hours)

What we're aiming for is to keep their BG between 50-120 on a human meter, so if he's been running in the 400's, he's definitely nowhere near regulated and that's why he's peeing everywhere

It's possible it's a little higher due to stress, but it's definitely a number I'd shoot if it's a good time for you and you're able to shoot again in about 12 hours.

You can change shot times by 15 minutes per cycle or 30 minutes per day until you get on a time schedule you want
 
Great accomplishment, Natalie and Ziggy :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:. So relieved and thrilled to hear you are both home safe and sound :):):):):) Be kind and patient with yourself and Ziggy especially here at first :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:It will all soon fall into place :)
 
Chris & China said:
That sounds like a valid reading....We see cats over 600 here sometimes. I'd give his insulin (if you can shoot again in 12 hours)

What we're aiming for is to keep their BG between 50-120 on a human meter, so if he's been running in the 400's, he's definitely nowhere near regulated and that's why he's peeing everywhere

It's possible it's a little higher due to stress, but it's definitely a number I'd shoot if it's a good time for you and you're able to shoot again in about 12 hours.

You can change shot times by 15 minutes per cycle or 30 minutes per day until you get on a time schedule you want
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Okay, thank you for the explanation. It's good to be able to see his actual numbers for myself, so I can get a sense of where he's really at with his levels. Hopefully Ziggy and I will be pros at this soon (especially since I'll have to do this every morning before work :eek:) but I am going to be 100% patient in the meantime, just like he's been.

I gave him his shot, which was my first attempt at doing so myself. It went well and he didn't seem to notice. He even came running into the kitchen once I took out the syringe, because he knew it was feeding time. He didn't eat a whole lot of his food, though, which kind of worries me a little. He's still loves his treats, though, and I'm making sure to give him ones like you've all recommended in this thread.
 
OK....now that Ziggy is safe with you and you're ready to really do this, let's get you to start keeping track of his numbers on our spreadsheet and get your signature done.

For the signature, go to the top right and click on your sign on name....there's a drop-down menu with the option "Signature"....click there. A new box will open up for you to enter information. We like to have:

Your name/cat's name, age, sex, date of diagnosis, type of insulin, type of meter, kind of food you're feeding, any other health problems? and a general location.

Once you have your spreadsheet set up, the link to it will go into your signature too. That way we don't have to keep asking the same questions and we'll be able to see how Ziggy is responding when you need advice in the future.

Here are Instructions on setting up the FDMB spreadsheet.....if you have any trouble, feel free to send me a private message and I can set it up for you. To send a PM just click on my name and choose "Start Conversation"

Welcome to the Vampire Club!!
vampire smiley .jpg
 
Your signature is really helpful.....I already mentioned the food issue in private messages, but you also mention that his teeth are in bad shape.

Dental problems can cause the BG to be higher too. We've seen a lot of cats that went into remission after their teeth were cleaned up.

The sooner you can get his teeth in good shape, the better his overall health will be, as well as getting his diabetes under control. Dental disease effects more than just their mouths.

Now for the bad news....a good dental requires anesthesia, pre and post dental x-rays, IV fluids (among other things) so it's not a cheap procedure....and a "cheap" dental isn't worth the money anyway. Be thinking along the lines of $500 to $1000 depending on the vet, how bad his teeth are and your location....and it can go even higher!

It doesn't have to be done tomorrow, but it's something you should definitely have on your radar for the future
 
Chris & China said:
Your signature is really helpful.....I already mentioned the food issue in private messages, but you also mention that his teeth are in bad shape.

Dental problems can cause the BG to be higher too. We've seen a lot of cats that went into remission after their teeth were cleaned up.

The sooner you can get his teeth in good shape, the better his overall health will be, as well as getting his diabetes under control. Dental disease effects more than just their mouths.

Now for the bad news....a good dental requires anesthesia, pre and post dental x-rays, IV fluids (among other things) so it's not a cheap procedure....and a "cheap" dental isn't worth the money anyway. Be thinking along the lines of $500 to $1000 depending on the vet, how bad his teeth are and your location....and it can go even higher!

It doesn't have to be done tomorrow, but it's something you should definitely have on your radar for the future
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Dental work has definitely been on the radar for a while, and the hardest part is definitely the cost. I'll have to get Ziggy set up with his new vet down in this area so we can start talking about it. It's helpful to know that his teeth could be contributing to his high blood sugar.

Woke up a bit late today and gave Ziggy his shot about 14 hours after his last one. I couldn't get him to stay still for his blood test, but eventually I hit his vein and got more than enough for the sample (I immediately stanched the bleeding, so he's fine now). 349 this morning! Gave him his shot and he ate all of his food. I'll probably feed him a little more later this afternoon, and I can give him another blood test and shot when the 12-hour mark arrives.

His litter box behavior has been very good so far. No diarrhea and he's covering everything. He's still tracking some litter here and there, since he still has some cement paws left over, but he's doing his best to clean his paws himself and doing a good job. I'm trying to help as best I can, too. The hardest part is finding all the little litter bits he leaves in his wake.

My roommates are super-friendly and accommodating to Ziggy, but he just immediately darts under my bed when they show up. It'll take a while before he's used to them.
 
Great news that he's using his litterbox....Hopefully he will continue so you don't have that to worry about!

It's wonderful to hear that your roommates are being very good to Ziggy too. Having any kind of extra support is so nice! I'm sure Ziggy will warm up to them in time.

It's probably going to be a good idea for you to start a new thread the next time you post. This one is getting pretty long and goes from tragedy (parents are euthanizing) to triumph (back home with you) and everywhere in between!

In your new thread you can put the link to this one so if someone wants to go back and read the history, they can easily do it.

Welcome to the sugardance!!
 
Natalie and Ziggy said:
Dental work has definitely been on the radar for a while, and the hardest part is definitely the cost. I'll have to get Ziggy set up with his new vet down in this area so we can start talking about it. It's helpful to know that his teeth could be contributing to his high blood sugar.

Woke up a bit late today and gave Ziggy his shot about 14 hours after his last one. I couldn't get him to stay still for his blood test, but eventually I hit his vein and got more than enough for the sample (I immediately stanched the bleeding, so he's fine now). 349 this morning! Gave him his shot and he ate all of his food. I'll probably feed him a little more later this afternoon, and I can give him another blood test and shot when the 12-hour mark arrives.

His litter box behavior has been very good so far. No diarrhea and he's covering everything. He's still tracking some litter here and there, since he still has some cement paws left over, but he's doing his best to clean his paws himself and doing a good job. I'm trying to help as best I can, too. The hardest part is finding all the little litter bits he leaves in his wake.

My roommates are super-friendly and accommodating to Ziggy, but he just immediately darts under my bed when they show up. It'll take a while before he's used to them.
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I’m a newbie too and trust me this forum has saved my Gretchen’s life. I’ve been following this and so happy to see it all came around!!

At first I hit the vein every time. I’ve been aiming where there kind of an “envelope” at the base of ear. Don’t know if that’s correct but it’s worked for me, if I do above it vein. Every time. I’ll try to get a pic and add it on my Daisy...non diabetic, but he’s on my lap right now. And as soon as I typed that he turned his head upside down ha ha! (Yes he’s a boy named Daisy lol)

Gretchen was getting cement paws BAD. I would just hold her butt end in the sink and shampoo it out. I switched to Clump and Seal Lightweight and that problem went away but I want to try the wood stuff that starts with an O..this stuff tracks bad.

Again I’m so warmed to see you saved your Ziggys life!

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Natalie and Ziggy said:
I think I'll look around for something like the relion micro or confirm when I get out of work tomorrow, because the price of the Alpha Track is a little too high for me at the moment (Ziggy's appointment today was very expensive, and I have other payments I have to make before the end of the month). I admit I'm a little confused about how the meter, the lancets, and the strips all fit together, or rather, how to go about making sure they're all compatible and which will be most effective. I wish they said "for total beginners" on the packages! But these suggestions have been very helpful.

Thankfully, work is the only thing I really need to worry about as far as my time is concerned, and my coworkers step out to take care of their pets all the time. I haven't accrued much vacation time yet, but once I do, I'll have a lot to use, so trips to the vet during the day will be possible if necessary. And I usually just stay home when I'm not working, so I'll have plenty of time to be with Ziggy. :cat:
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I tried the Relion meter but later found out it was giving very inaccurate readings. I thought my cat was better than he was because of this meter. It was giving readings that were about 100 points lower than my vet's machine. The Alpha TrakII was more accurate.
 
PamJV said:
I tried the Relion meter but later found out it was giving very inaccurate readings. I thought my cat was better than he was because of this meter. It was giving readings that were about 100 points lower than my vet's machine. The Alpha TrakII was more accurate.
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We know that a human meter reads lower than a pet meter like the AlphaTrak and we understand human meter numbers. The difference if greater at high BGs and less at low BGs. The important numbers to remember are the "take action" numbers (BG is getting too low): 50 on a human meter and 68 on a pet meter.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
We know that a human meter reads lower than a pet meter like the AlphaTrak and we understand human meter numbers. The difference if greater at high BGs and less at low BGs. The important numbers to remember are the "take action" numbers (BG is getting too low): 50 on a human meter and 68 on a pet meter.
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If there is a translation guide that would tell you if you get a 200 it's really a 300 then that would be OK. But I was using the Relion thinking Ricky was getting good numbers when he wasn't. No one told me it could be off by that much. In fact according to my vet even the AlphaTrakII reads lower than it should.
 
I did very well with the Relion Micro. When tested at my vet’s office he might have been higher but he was within normal limits for the lab and never had glucose in his urine.
 
my vet showed me how to do blood sample with just a needle scratch instead of the lancets; it was very easy--barely have to scratch ear. Might be a little cheaper than lancets. Not sure how the petsure strips compare in price to others. If you are going to use this site a lot, a human meter might be better as long as your vet agrees to co-ordinate as many on this site use human meter. I am using alphatrac 2, got "intro kit" from chewy for $63. Included 30 lancets and 25 strips. Look for intro kits with strips, etc. might make it easier to get started. There is no doubt the in-home testing is good. I have had mine in to vet for checking numerous times and never got a reading low enough, but got one low enough at home today that we are decreasing insulin as a trial tonight.
 
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