Diabetes

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Winni

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My 9 yr old cat has been drinking so much water for 2-3 weeks now. Took him to the vet over the weekend. Blood work came back today with a Glucose of 405; therefore my poor little guy is diabetic. I left working crying. Took him back to the vet today to find out our next step. He needs Prozinc insulin 1 unit twice daily for now & needs to eat this special Purina DM food. Need to monitor him for the next week or so. The injections don't seem so bad. Our life style will need to be changed since we both go away on weekends... I forgot to ask the vet how long apart should I give the insulin injections ?

My poor little Simba.
 

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Welcome to you and Simba. We are all going to let you know the importance of home testing and switch to low carb wet food. None of the dry are low enough in carbs for a diabetic kitty - even the DM's from the Vet. Actually there are a few commerical dry foods that are lower in carbs than any of the vet ones, go figure.
Prozinc shots are generally 12 hours apart, but it is fairly forgiving in that there is some wiggle room in either direction. You can request a newbie kit and it will have what you need to get started. Or you can do like many of us. Wal-mart has a ReliOn Micro Monitor (for people, that works fine for cats) that is $9.00 add in the lancets and test strips and you've spent about $33 total. I got my needles at local pharmacy, but there are lots of options. To start, you should probably match the needles to the insulin - will be either U40 or U100. #31's short are easy to use.
Glad they at least suggested starting at a low 1 unit. We like to start low and slow (i.e. stay a few days at least with the same shoot).
Testing takes a couple of days to get in a rhythm, for you and kitty - but with practice, it is not a problem. And you will feel empowered, because you know exactly what the numbers are and if it's safe to shoot.
There are great lists from the main page for food options and lots of examples on how to test. There's also links on how to set up a spreadsheet to keep track of BG levels, units given, and times for curves. Believe me, I've written too much, because I bet you're like most of us and on initial overload.
It is good to learn and everyone here will give you TONS of support and encouragement.
 
Welcome Winni and Simba to the FDMB family,

Okay first off, dry those tears and take a deep breath! There feel a little better? I sure hope so because you are now in the very place you never wanted to be, but are blessed to have found. Diabetes is a very manageable disease, so manageable in fact that many of us have adopted our sugarcats from this very board. I happen to be one of them that after my first sugarcat Muse passed away (cancer not diabetes took her from me) that I adopted my Maxwell as a diabetic from right here. Now when Muse left for the Rainbow Bridge I still had 9 cats so I realy didn't need another cat, but since diabetes is so easy to treat I just had to open my house and heart to another FD cat so that his life could be spared.

Now some general things to know about caring for Simba, first off to answer the question you forgot to ask the vet...injections are given 12 hours apart.

Second yu don't need to feed him prescription food, there is plenty out there on the commercial market that is just as good if not better in quality for a cat with diabetes. Personally I feed all 11 of mine what my diabetic eats which is just good old fashioned Friskies pate flavors. Specifically Turkey & Giblets, Mixed Grill, Poultry platter, County-style dinner and for those days when they get fish, Ocean Whitefish & Tuna, Mariner's Catch and Sea Captain's Choice. I try not to feed fish more than about once a week. This is a link to the food charts most of us use when shopping for our kitties http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html You want to look for things that are under 10% carbs. Most of your pate varieties fall under that heading like Friskies, 9-Lives even Classic Fancy Feast. Now of course with 11 cats Fancy Feast in those little 3 oz cans is right out here, but if you only have one or two cats it is a good way to go as well. Now you might have noticed that I didn't list any dry cat food. The reason for that is that any dry cat food even the high end stuff is too carb heavy for a diabetic cat, and not really all that great for any cat. I know my own civies (non-diabetics) have improved in health since switching everyone over to a low carb/high protein canned diet.

The next thing we will nag you about is learning to home test. It can be a little daunting at first, but once you get the hang of it, it s really very easy and only takes a few seconds to due. Home testing has a lot of benefits: (1) it makes sure that Simba is high enough to safely give insulin to, thus keeping him from getting too much and going hypo (2) Saves him and you the stress of going to the Vet's all the time (stress raises BGs) and (3) keeps more dollars in your wallet, because you can do all his curves at home and then take those numbers into to the vet's to decide dosage. In fact I have had my diabetic cat since last October and my vet has yet to see him in the fur except for once when he and I went in to show them how I test at home. There has just been no need to take him, he was already neutered and utd on his shots when I go him and other than diabetic nothing else was wrong with him.

Now for testing at home. Any human meter that takes a small sample of blood will work just fine, again you don't need an expensive special meter for pets. I personally use the Relion Micro from Walmart. The meter, a package of 50 test strips and a lancing pen and lancets altogether ran me like $35. We simply prick the edge of our cats ear to get a tiny drop of blood and test that just like a human diabetic would. We test before every shot. And we can teach you how to test Simba too.

Now as far as having to change your lifestyle.....How well does Simba travel? Many of us just take our Sugarcats with us when we travel, we have folks on here that take their cats on vacations, camping, sailing etc. So if Simba likes to travel and you can make arrangements to stay at cat friendly places there is no reason to have to give up your weekends away. I'm blessed that Maxwell loves to ride in the truck and should I ever need to he can just go with me, and I can have a pet sitter come in for the rest of the furry family.

Just keep asking questions as they pop into your head, and someone around here will be able to answer them. There ae no stupid questions, except those that go unasked. And if it helps we all have been right where you are now, scared to death, in tears, worried and overwhelmed but it does get easier....Alot easier and we will be here to hold your hand and paw through it all. You and Simba have many more good years ahead of you. Feline Diabetes is as treatable as diabetes is in humans.

Mel, Max and The Fur Gang
 
Thank you so much for the information. I'm a little worried that everyone has so many different opinions. I read some where that dry food causes diabetes and told my vet this today. She disagreed on that and sent me home with the Purina DM dry and wet food. I need to do some more research on this and see what is best for my Simba. I'm worried about the food situation. I want what is best for him.

Thank you again.
 
I think you'll find a singular opinion on dry food here--it's junk food for cats, and in many cases is the cause of the cat's diabetes to begin with. Time and time again people end up here asking why they can't get their cats regulated despite doing everything their vet has told them, and the biggest culprit is that they are feeding their cat dry food still. We see drops in blood glucose levels from 100-200 points just by removing the dry food.

Feeding a diabetic cat dry food is like feeding a diabetic human McDonald's all the time...their bodies just can't handle the excess carbs and sugars.

Check out this web site. It's an excellent source of information on feline nutrition. http://www.catinfo.org/
 
Well if it is any help at all my Maxwell's BG was 485 when he was diagnoised he was taken off a all dry food, and started on 1u of Lantus twice a day, while we awaited transport for him from Boston Mass, to Hastings Nebr. one week later after a nearly 12 hour flight and a 3 hour car ride with a bunch of strangers he was barely in the 100s, one more week after that he was off insulin and has remained so for going on 7 months now. Now not every cat goes into remission after the dry food is stopped but we see an awful lot of them that do.

Not only did I remove all of Maxwell's dry food I removed it completely from all my cats, yes all 11 of them and I can't even begin to tell you how much they all have improved in over-all health. Even my one guy that we fought allergies for years with suddenly was allergy free, the rest have beautiful sleek, shiny and soft coats. Their energy is better. They are just fantastic looking and feeling cats. I have owned cats for nearly 30 years now and never have I had cats with coats like these and all it took was removing the dry food.

It also does nothing for their teeth, anymore, than eating potato chips and cookies does for a human's teeth.

Mel, Max, and The Fur Gang
 
MommaOfMuse: I do have two cats and it's been difficult to keep the non-diabetic cat away from Simba . Simba is the one who was just diagnosed with diabetes yesterday. His Glucose was 405. My shadow is actually 21 pounds and he's NOT diabetic.

As of now I'm giving him the DM Dry and the DM Wet, but I think the more I read your posts the more it makes sense. If I take away the dry food how much wet food a day do I give both cats a day ? - I do work all day.

I only started the insulin (ProZinc) yesterday 1 unit twice daily. Tonight I gave him his 2nd dosage and notice a couple of drops on his fur; therefore I'm NOT sure if the entire medication went in. It's so hard to tell because 1 unit seems like nothing. Is it possible that I see Simba drinking less water already today ? - He only started the insulin yesterday. So far he has gotten a total of 4 dosages from yesterday to today.

RE: ProZinc (insulin) needs to be kept in the refrigerator, but I usually take it out 10 miutes before, is this okay ?

Thank you
Winni
 
Hi Winni,

Well first off does Shadow need to lose weight? I have one here that started out at 19 lbs but his frame makes his ideal weight somewhere closer to 10-12 lbs. Maxwell (my diabetic) ironically is my largest cat at 14.5lbs. He eats about 8.25 oz or about 1 1/2 can (5.5oz) the rest of the cats here all range from 6-10lbs and eat about one 5.5 oz can a day. So with all eleven I go through 12 cans per day. Patches ( the one on the diet ) has taken off about 5 lbs over the last 3 months being fed that one can a day so its not like I'm starving him to get him to his ideal weight. Now since I'm home all day with my fur-kids they get fed 4 times a day. However, you can either get your kids a times feeder or leave canned food out, the only reason I break up mine's food is because if I leave it out all day the dog figures anything left on the cats' plates is fair game the moment they walk away from it. So I try to feed only what will be cleaned up immediately. So depending on what Simba and Shadow's ideal weights are would be how you judge how much to feed...but I think the basic formula is about 15 calories per lbs of cat. For example a 10lb cat needs 150 calories per day. But then again every cat is different. So if need to lose weight, feed less, need to gain weight feed more.

When Max was just getting his weight back on after I got him regulated and into remission he was eating 3 cans a day by himself, now about half the time he will leave some of his portions that his girlfriend Lady Jane Grey is happy to lick up for him..lol

Mel, Max & The Fur Gang.
 
Hi and welcome to FDMB!

I have 4 cats -- one is diabetic. They all eat the same canned food - Merricks Before Grain 96% (chicken, turkey, quail) and Fancy Feast Chopped Grill or Chicken Feast.

I give 2 5oz cans in the morning, and 1 or 2 5 oz cans in the evening depending on how much of the morning food is left.

At bed time - i check the amount of food and add 3 to 5 oz if needed so they can have night-time snacks (reduces 3 a.m. MEOWING and lets me sleep...)

During the beginning of diabetes diagnosis -- your kitty is starving - literally -- he can eat-eat-eat but without insulin - the energy is turned into sugar and goes out in pee instead of being used to feed the muscles.

So -- it is ok to feed EXTRA in the beginning.

After the insulin dose is getting close to the right amount that is needed -- the kitty will be less crazy hungry - and go back to normal amounts of food.
 
MommaOfMuse said:
Hi Winni,

Well first off does Shadow need to lose weight? I have one here that started out at 19 lbs but his frame makes his ideal weight somewhere closer to 10-12 lbs. Maxwell (my diabetic) ironically is my largest cat at 14.5lbs. He eats about 8.25 oz or about 1 1/2 can (5.5oz) the rest of the cats here all range from 6-10lbs and eat about one 5.5 oz can a day. So with all eleven I go through 12 cans per day. Patches ( the one on the diet ) has taken off about 5 lbs over the last 3 months being fed that one can a day so its not like I'm starving him to get him to his ideal weight. Now since I'm home all day with my fur-kids they get fed 4 times a day. However, you can either get your kids a times feeder or leave canned food out, the only reason I break up mine's food is because if I leave it out all day the dog figures anything left on the cats' plates is fair game the moment they walk away from it. So I try to feed only what will be cleaned up immediately. So depending on what Simba and Shadow's ideal weights are would be how you judge how much to feed...but I think the basic formula is about 15 calories per lbs of cat. For example a 10lb cat needs 150 calories per day. But then again every cat is different. So if need to lose weight, feed less, need to gain weight feed more.

When Max was just getting his weight back on after I got him regulated and into remission he was eating 3 cans a day by himself, now about half the time he will leave some of his portions that his girlfriend Lady Jane Grey is happy to lick up for him..lol

Mel, Max & The Fur Gang.
Yes, of course my fat boy Shadow needs a diet which he is now on since my Simba was just diagnoed. I'm still feeding them both the DRY DM food and also the wet DM since this is what my vet told me to do on 4/25/11. I'm very new at this. I need to call my vet on 5/2 which is a week for an update. I will bring up the dry food issue. I feel like its my fault that my Simba is diabetic since I feed him. He loves his yogurt. I use to give him like a tablespoon 2-3 times a week, the cat totally goes crazy with yogurt, but I feel like I can't give him this. We ALL want the very best for our pets, but sometimes it's so difficult especially when you have more than one.
 
We ALL want the very best for our pets, but sometimes it's so difficult especially when you have more than one.

Oh how well I know that one...there are 11 here, and Boy do I get strange looks in the canned cat food aisle at Wal-mart every week...lol

Mel, Max and the Fur Gang
 
Hi Winni,

Welcome! You're in great hands here! I've been here for 11 days and have found that even though these folks may not necessarily have a vet degree, they know a TON about diabetes.

My vet also recommended DM and the more research I did, the more I learned that it's not necessary. I was feeding DM and other low carb dry food (Evo Chicken and Turkey) and Junior was sick the whole time. The day I switched to wet was the best thing I did for Junior. My biggest regret has been that I fed him all that junk his entire life.

Best of luck to you and welcome aboard!
Bonnie
 
my vet also recommended the purina dm - i bought both canned and dry. gave punkin the canned when he was first diagnosed and when we ran out of it in a month i switched to the dry. the first month his blood sugar improved at every test, the second month it went back up and up and up. btw - who do you think tells them to sell that purina dm? salespeople from purina go to vet practices and sell the food for them to sell to you.

i now feed both of my cats (one diabetic, one had chronic diarrhea) fancy feast. their fur is better, the diarrhea in my non-diabetic cat has completely disappeared. consider that in nature, a cat's natural diet is a mouse. you can find a lot of info if you poke around online about this and i think you will find universally that a wet food is closest to that mouse. i add water to my cats' food because punkin used to have regular bladder infections. what i have read is that a cat has a poor thirst instinct because their natural food (a mouse) has a high water content.

i told my vet about what i'd learned that diabetic cats shouldn't have dry food and he disagreed with me. but the bottom line is that i put the food dish down, the vet works for me. i hire him. and everything i've learned in the past 2 months means that i want my cats to have canned food so that's what i now feed them. even though i hate the smell of it. :lol:

anyway, i'm not trying to lecture you, i'm trying to empower you!! go girl! just remember the vet works for you!

as you look around this site you'll see that it appears as though vets aren't as well educated on feline diabetes as they ought to be. when push came to shove, i chose the advice from the people here who do diabetes 24/7 for years on end over my vet's advice. our 3 vet practice has exactly one other diabetic cat and my vet, unfortunately, has given me several very incorrect bits of advice. i'm still going there, but taking my diabetes information from here.

yogurt is fine as long as there's no sugar in the yogurt. it's good for their guts! as far as amounts of food - if you look on the link for binky's food list (i think i saw it above) it has calories for each kind. we give punkin (14.3lbs) 1 can with each shot, 1/2 can 3 hours later - so a total of 3 cans/day. i mix almost equal amounts of water with the food and he likes it just fine.

his diabetes is not your fault. not one bit. you don't need to feel guilty - just seize the opportunity to educate yourself about how to help him from this day forward!

Here's one link that i think is really helpful - it is from the Lantus/Levemir users forum, but a lot of the information is very applicable to everyone here. just ignore the references to lantus/levemir! http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18139
 
Thank you all for your support, but I'm a total mess with the diabetes on my Simba. I'm NOT sure if I'm feeding him enough. He is and has always been a very picky eater. I now feed him about 1/2 of a small fancy feast wet food in the a.m. and again in the p.m. with his insulin injections. But my Shadow who weighs about 21 pounds simply loves to eat. I now find that I'm feeding Shadow the same way. I leave the dry DM food out all day for both kitties and I find both are not eating as much of the dry food since I started feeding both wet food in the a.m. & p.m.. Shadow gets less wet food since he's the non-diabetic.

I'm going to call the vet tomorrow for the one week update. I thought my Simba was drinking less water, but at the same time I think there's no change at times. I do believe he's urinating less. I find him very sleepy. I'm going to ask the vet to draw his levels to see where his glucose is. He was diagoned on 4/25/11 w/glucose of 405. I hope to God with one week twice daily of inuslin his levels drops. I hate not knowing where is level is.

I take out the insulin 1/2 hour before injection; is this a problem ?

Does it matter if I feed my diabetic cat before injection or after ?

Does anyone know of a company that does injections on pets if the owner goes away ?

Winni & Simba + Shadow
:sad:
 
In all honesty you are probably not seeing a lot of results yet because of the dry food. If you could completely eliminate the dry food you would see better results faster, there is really no dry food that is good for a diabetic.

I don't remember are you testing at home? If you are that should be able to tell you more about how well the insulin is or isn't working for Simba.

Mel, Max and the Fur Gang
 
in general the process most of us use is to test the cat's blood glucose, get the food and the shot ready, set the food down and shoot. i try to get it all done within 10 minutes.

i don't know about leaving your insulin out - i don't think i saw what kind you are using. we use lantus and i don't leave it out. one time i accidentally left it out overnight and i threw it away. it wants a constant temperature, from what i understand, so i would draw up the insulin straight out of the fridge, and if you're wanting to let it warm up, let the syringe sit 1/2 hr. i just hold it between my fingers for perhaps a minute and it seems fine to punkin.

if you are giving simba lantus, the low point, called the nadir, when its action is the strongest and simba's blood sugar would be the lowest, is usually around 6 hours after the shot. that varies between cats and also within one cat from day to day, but in general, it's somewhere around there.

when my vet was testing my cat's BG, i went into the vet office all different times of the day, so anywhere from 2 hours after punkin's shot to 8 hours later. now i wonder what they could possibly have learned from that, because of how the cycle works. ideally you will start testing at home - it's hard for a few days but you really do learn how. but if you keep going to the vet's to get it checked, if i were you, i would schedule it for 6 hours after the shot and do it the same time every single time. lantus doses are adjusted based upon that lowest point. don't feed your kitty for at least 2-3 hours before you take simba in to get the BG tested.

as far as how much you feed, another way to do it is to let your cats eat as much as they want for 1/2 hour and then pick up the dish. you could do that with the shot, again 3 hours later & repeat again in the evenings. That binky's food list has calorie amounts for the food to help you estimate quantity - the bottom line is you want to keep your cat at a healthy weight and not let them lose weight too quickly if they are overweight. if you feed your cat within 2 hours of getting a blood sugar test your numbers will be changed by that. if a cat goes hypoglycemic the first tool we use to pull up the blood glucose is food, so you can see why you wouldn't want to feed right before you test. test first, then food.

there are many pet sitters who will give insulin shots. i hired a vet tech from my vet's office to come and give the shots.

good luck - check back in with us and let us know how simba's doing.
 
WOW - Last night and through out today was the first time that my Simba is not drinking as much water. I actually fet him the Classic Fancy Feast, wet food three times a day on Sunday and notice by night time he was drinking less water. Same again with today, drinking less water. The dry food is there, but I'm noticing that he is not eating the dry food now (DM dry). I called my vet today, the techinician called me back. I'm taking Simba in on Thursday morning for them to check his B/S through the day. It's killing me to leave him there, but I need to do it.

I don't know if it's the wet food working or the insulin is finally kicking in since he was diagnosed one week ago today. I think now he is not drinking enough water. OMG, does this ever stop. I'm making myself sick over this.


Winni & Simba
 
you have to think in terms of being in this for the long haul. just relax! you're doing great - the first steps are the hardest.

in nature, the mouse is the perfect cat meal. they don't normally drink much water, so when you've switched to canned food, you've switched to water IN the food instead of beside it. I read somewhere that canned food is equivalent in moisture to a mouse. my cat doesn't drink much water at all, but i think i probably told you i add water to his canned food, mostly because he has a history of bladder infections.

it's probably a combination of both the insulin working and the switch to canned food, probably mainly the canned food. whatever it is, CELEBRATE that simba's doing better! You're helping him - and that's SUPER! :-D

what kind of insulin are you using?
 
julie1220 said:
you have to think in terms of being in this for the long haul. just relax! you're doing great - the first steps are the hardest.

in nature, the mouse is the perfect cat meal. they don't normally drink much water, so when you've switched to canned food, you've switched to water IN the food instead of beside it. I read somewhere that canned food is equivalent in moisture to a mouse. my cat doesn't drink much water at all, but i think i probably told you i add water to his canned food, mostly because he has a history of bladder infections.

it's probably a combination of both the insulin working and the switch to canned food, probably mainly the canned food. whatever it is, CELEBRATE that simba's doing better! You're helping him - and that's SUPER! :-D

what kind of insulin are you using?

I started Simba on ProZinc insulin 1 unit twice daily on 4/25/11. After I take Simba in on Thursday for his B/G's I need to figure out what to do with my other cat, Shadow. This guy will eat himself to death. I'm feeding Shadow who is non-diabetic wet food just like Simba but Shadow is having massive diarrhea. I did not think at the moment to have Shadow who weighs 21 pounds be checked for diabetes since he was not having symptoms like Simba was; therefore I feel like I should have him tested ? - Do u think I should worry about Shadow ? -

Simba is now one FULL week on the ProZinc insulin. Should I take him in for the B/G this Thursday or wait until next week ?. I think if I take him this Thursday my mind will be at ease in where his levels are and should be.

Thank you so much for talking with me.
Winni & Simba & Shadow
 
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