Diabetes diagnosis

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Racheltwinset

Racheltwinset

Member Since 2019
Hello,
Again can I say how very thankful I am to find this group, we have gone from shock and despair to hope in the few hours I’ve been reading this afternoon.
So this morning our Bunchy went to the vet, and we were told that his glucose is is 25 rather than the ideal 8-12 whatevers- this is so new to us, I don’t know the terminology yet..
We are meeting the vet tomorrow morning, to be given Purina diabetic dry food, and be taught how to inject insulin.
However! Since reading here- I have ordered kilos of food from these people https://www.naturalinstinct.com/ as their recipes seem identical to the ideal.
We are planning to go home and throw out all the dried food in the house, and feed him chicken till this arrives- any thoughts on this welcome!
Also, the vet said he had three bad teeth- we are mortified about this, but also annoyed, as we took him fairly recently when his mouth seemed sore, and were told it was just a plastic allergy.
I read here that bad teeth and gums can spike glucose levels... I very much doubt our vet would sort his teeth till the diabetes is addressed however.
Am also very concerned about her not giving any dietary advice, we are going for a second opinion at a different vet.
Apologies for the very long first post, my husband and I are reeling from this and want to do the right thing.
I guess what I really want to know, any thoughts on holding off on the insulin for a few days while we bin the dry food?
He will be delighted to be fed chicken until the proper stuff arrives, so he won’t starve.
Thank you again, Rachel
 
Racheltwinset said:
Hi- thanks for your reply- but as a newbie to all this, I don’t understand, can you explain? Many thanks
Click to expand...

Welcome Rachel! Most of us here use Blood Glucose meters like ReliOn to test our kitty's sugars at home by pricking the tip of the ear. It is all overwhelming at first but the learning curve is quick and you'll soon become a pro. Setting up a SpreadSheet is important too so we can all see what's going on with Bunchy. I added some links below this post to get you started.
 
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Racheltwinset said:
I guess what I really want to know, any thoughts on holding off on the insulin for a few days while we bin the dry food?
He will be delighted to be fed chicken until the proper stuff arrives, so he won’t starve.
Click to expand...
Regarding the change in diet if you are going to change to low carb food you have to be very careful about giving insulin, and you do have to monitor him, because the change of diet usually changes how much insulin a cat needs, since most of the times the low carb diet itself lowers a bit the blood glucose numbers so odds are he will need less insulin

Giving just chicken is ok but only for a few days since cats need some other nutrients (specially taurine) that the chicken alone will not have

As for the tooth problem hopefully your vet will address that as soon as possible because, that problem can and probably is raising his blood glucose numbers and also can cause him a lot of pain and trouble eating which you do not want.
 
Bronx's dad said:
Welcome Rachel! Most of us here use Blood Glucose meters like ReliOn to test our kitty's sugars at home by pricking the tip of the ear. It is all overwhelming at first but the learning curve is quick and you'll soon become a pro. Setting up a SpreadSheet is important too so we can all see what's going on with Bunchy. I added some links below this post to get you started.
Click to expand...
Thank you!
 
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
Regarding the change in diet if you are going to change to low carb food you have to be very careful about giving insulin, and you do have to monitor him, because the change of diet usually changes how much insulin a cat needs, since most of the times the low carb diet itself lowers a bit the blood glucose numbers so odds are he will need less insulin

Giving just chicken is ok but only for a few days since cats need some other nutrients (specially taurine) that the chicken alone will not have

As for the tooth problem hopefully your vet will address that as soon as possible because, that problem can and probably is raising his blood glucose numbers and also can cause him a lot of pain and trouble eating which you do not want.
Click to expand...
Thank you!
 
Hi Rachel, from sunny southern England! Welcome to the board, you're definitely in the right place for all the help and support you need. There is a lot to take in but once you start reading, asking questions and starting to see how FD and its treatment works, you'll be fine much sooner than you think.

Def look at getting a blood glucose monitor so you can check bg level before every insulin shot. There are a number of good ones in the UK and some of our members can offer their experiences with these. Once you're checking bg, you'll know if it's safe to give insulin. There are plenty of options for low-carb wet food too - just avoid dry at all costs.

Have you read this:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-vit-b12-and-other-need-to-know-stuff.137376/

It gives lots of info and is worth printing out so you can refer to it often.

This is a US-based site and has members from all over the world. Everyone will give the same advice, but if you're looking for specific info on UK sources for FD supplies and foods, say you're in the UK in the title of your thread, as many people will assume you're in the US.

Keep asking questions, that's what we're here for!

Good luck
Diana
 
Diana&Tom said:
Hi Rachel, from sunny southern England! Welcome to the board, you're definitely in the right place for all the help and support you need. There is a lot to take in but once you start reading, asking questions and starting to see how FD and its treatment works, you'll be fine much sooner than you think.

Def look at getting a blood glucose monitor so you can check bg level before every insulin shot. There are a number of good ones in the UK and some of our members can offer their experiences with these. Once you're checking bg, you'll know if it's safe to give insulin. There are plenty of options for low-carb wet food too - just avoid dry at all costs.

Have you read this:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-vit-b12-and-other-need-to-know-stuff.137376/

It gives lots of info and is worth printing out so you can refer to it often.

This is a US-based site and has members from all over the world. Everyone will give the same advice, but if you're looking for specific info on UK sources for FD supplies and foods, say you're in the UK in the title of your thread, as many people will assume you're in the US.

Keep asking questions, that's what we're here for!

Good luck
Diana
Click to expand...
Hi Diana, thanks so much for this.
I’ve ordered the Alphatrak2 and their strips, I thought it best to start with the right ones till I know what I’m doing.
I’m so grateful to have found this group before he starts on insulin, so I can change his diet first.
I’ve ordered loads of food from Natural Instinct, and have just been feeding him chicken and turkey since his diagnosis yesterday. I think it’s going to be very difficult to get him on to wet/raw food, but he eats mice happily so I’m going to persevere.
Our plan at the moment is to take him to a different vet, a cat specialist, on Friday, for a second opinion, as I don’t feel a huge amount of confidence in our usual vet- for instance, he had a sore mouth recently, and the vet told us it was a plastic allergy, and now she says he has 3 bad teeth, which I read here can spike glucose.
Thanks again.
 
It sounds as if you have a good handle on this already, Rachel, well done. You are right to stop the dry food first before switching insulin, as that alone could make a big difference. It may take a while to successfully transition to a wet diet, but it's worth persevering. Meanwhile, if you feed only chicken or turkey for too long, you may want to supplement it with a product such as Felini which will make the pure protein a "complete" food. You can buy Felini from Amazon or Zooplus.

Ref the Alphatrak - it's absolutely fine but be aware that strips (the main ongoing expense) are very expensive. There are other strips that are compatible, but cross that bridge when you come to it!

I don't blame you for going to another vet. Many of us have found that our knowledge of FD is greater than that of many vets - they get a very small amount of training in it at vet school, and although FD seems to be on the rise amongst the feline population (quite possibly due to high-carb diets), vets' expertise doesn't seem to be keeping up. So definitely ask the vet what experiecne they have with FD. I'm guessing that you don't know what insulin you'll be prescribed yet (see what the low-carb diet does first) but again, discuss this with the vet. Most vets here prescribe Caninsulin to start with, which can work well but equally may not be ideal, as it's usually fast-acting and has short duration. When/if you start insulin you'd ideally be looking for a slightly gentler one such as Prozinc. Some vets are happy to discuss options with you and others can be insistent on some things... so the ideal compromise is to read here, discuss things with the vet, and take the best of both.

If you have a minute, do add some info to your profile, as suggested earlier, so we can all see the basic info at a glance - cat's name, age, diet, other medical conditions, etc etc. And then if you start using insulin, you'll ideally need a spreadsheet to log data so that again, we can see what effect a certain dose is having. A good vet will be delighted if you do this!
 
Diana&Tom said:
It sounds as if you have a good handle on this already, Rachel, well done. You are right to stop the dry food first before switching insulin, as that alone could make a big difference. It may take a while to successfully transition to a wet diet, but it's worth persevering. Meanwhile, if you feed only chicken or turkey for too long, you may want to supplement it with a product such as Felini which will make the pure protein a "complete" food. You can buy Felini from Amazon or Zooplus.

Ref the Alphatrak - it's absolutely fine but be aware that strips (the main ongoing expense) are very expensive. There are other strips that are compatible, but cross that bridge when you come to it!

I don't blame you for going to another vet. Many of us have found that our knowledge of FD is greater than that of many vets - they get a very small amount of training in it at vet school, and although FD seems to be on the rise amongst the feline population (quite possibly due to high-carb diets), vets' expertise doesn't seem to be keeping up. So definitely ask the vet what experiecne they have with FD. I'm guessing that you don't know what insulin you'll be prescribed yet (see what the low-carb diet does first) but again, discuss this with the vet. Most vets here prescribe Caninsulin to start with, which can work well but equally may not be ideal, as it's usually fast-acting and has short duration. When/if you start insulin you'd ideally be looking for a slightly gentler one such as Prozinc. Some vets are happy to discuss options with you and others can be insistent on some things... so the ideal compromise is to read here, discuss things with the vet, and take the best of both.

If you have a minute, do add some info to your profile, as suggested earlier, so we can all see the basic info at a glance - cat's name, age, diet, other medical conditions, etc etc. And then if you start using insulin, you'll ideally need a spreadsheet to log data so that again, we can see what effect a certain dose is having. A good vet will be delighted if you do this!
Click to expand...
This is so reassuring and hopeful, thanks Diana.
I’ll order some Felini right now.
The vets we’re going to next are cats only, (much further from where we live, obviously :/) so quite hopeful that we’ll get better information- but we will definitely ask them what experience they have, and ask for Prozinc.
I’ve done the signature, and will definitely do the spreadsheet.
We were quite despairing yesterday, but optimistic today, thanks again!
 
Racheltwinset said:
This is so reassuring and hopeful, thanks Diana.
I’ll order some Felini right now.
The vets we’re going to next are cats only, (much further from where we live, obviously :/) so quite hopeful that we’ll get better information- but we will definitely ask them what experience they have, and ask for Prozinc.
I’ve done the signature, and will definitely do the spreadsheet.
We were quite despairing yesterday, but optimistic today, thanks again!
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Brilliant, well done Rachel! We all understand what this is like in the beginning, but as we've said, once you start to see how it all works, it becomes much more manageable. Do post here as often as you like - no such thing as a silly question!
 
Diana&Tom said:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Felini-Complete-125g/dp/B06Y5C9GP9/ref=sr_1_1?crid=32W7UIJ3XUW2A&keywords=felini complete&qid=1558519356&s=pet-supplies&sprefix=Felini cimplete,aps,454&sr=1-1-catcorr


Or maybe quicker from Amazon.
Click to expand...
Found it on Amazon- still have to wait till Sunday, even with extra postage.
Will see if the vet or the pet shop have anything similar till then.
I must say, even in 24hrs of just chicken, turkey and ignoring bought wet food, he’s looking very perky, has drunk less water, and chucked up a massive hair ball.
Giving tiny lumps of Parmesan for treats instead of Dreamies.
Both feeling much calmer. X
 
Racheltwinset said:
Found it on Amazon- still have to wait till Sunday, even with extra postage.
Will see if the vet or the pet shop have anything similar till then.
I must say, even in 24hrs of just chicken, turkey and ignoring bought wet food, he’s looking very perky, has drunk less water, and chucked up a massive hair ball.
Giving tiny lumps of Parmesan for treats instead of Dreamies.
Both feeling much calmer. X
Click to expand...
This is great - drinking less water is a sure sign that bg is lower so if you were feeding dry food before, this is a good sign.
Parmesan scores every time over Dreamies. Many of us here use Thrive freeze-dried treats as a healthier alternative to Dreamies - on the expensive side but cheaper online than in supermarkets. You can get cheap versions in places like Wilko if you have that in bonny Scotland?
One other important thing I don't think we've mentioned - remember to give yourself treats too. All this can feel rather stressful when you're starting out so remember to treat yourself with your choice of wine, chocolate, cake or whatever - it's a reward for your hard work and something to look forward to :)
 
Diana&Tom said:
This is great - drinking less water is a sure sign that bg is lower so if you were feeding dry food before, this is a good sign.
Parmesan scores every time over Dreamies. Many of us here use Thrive freeze-dried treats as a healthier alternative to Dreamies - on the expensive side but cheaper online than in supermarkets. You can get cheap versions in places like Wilko if you have that in bonny Scotland?
One other important thing I don't think we've mentioned - remember to give yourself treats too. All this can feel rather stressful when you're starting out so remember to treat yourself with your choice of wine, chocolate, cake or whatever - it's a reward for your hard work and something to look forward to :)
Click to expand...
❤️ We did fall into a couple of bottles of red wine last night, slightly jaded today but so much more cheerful x
 
New vet is lovely. Totally approving and supportive of diet changes. Blood glucose dropped to 23, and Bunchy drinking, peeing and pooing normally now.
But vet stressing how potentially serious it still is. Back on Tuesday, if not dropped significantly, start insulin.
Bit depressed, looks like we’ll cancel long planned trip to Barcelona on Wednesday, for five days, even though cat sitter says she’s up for the responsibility, and she’s a cat person.
But will decide after vet on Tuesday, couldn’t possibly ask someone else to do injections.
And Bunchy showing unexpected mild interest in Natural Instinct raw food, when heavily sprinkled with chopped up chicken thighs and Parmesan.
He looks so fit cheery and healthy, it’s hard to accept that he has a serious problem.
But very happy with new vet, trust her.
 
That is really good news about the new vet so take heart - the support of a good vet plus what you've learnt here will give you the very best chance of getting this under control.

With a bg of 23 you very probably are going to have to give insulin - see what the reading is next week. Make sure the vet doesn't prescribe too high a dose - we always suggest starting on 1 unit twice a day (12 hours apart), which may or may not be enough to bring down bg but if not you would increase in small increments until you see progress.

Keep reading here and keep asking questions about anything you're unsure of.
 
Diana&Tom said:
That is really good news about the new vet so take heart - the support of a good vet plus what you've learnt here will give you the very best chance of getting this under control.

With a bg of 23 you very probably are going to have to give insulin - see what the reading is next week. Make sure the vet doesn't prescribe too high a dose - we always suggest starting on 1 unit twice a day (12 hours apart), which may or may not be enough to bring down bg but if not you would increase in small increments until you see progress.

Keep reading here and keep asking questions about anything you're unsure of.
Click to expand...
Thanks Diana, your support means a lot x
 
Hello again,
Help required!
So, our vet also has the AlphaTrak2 , and showed me how to use it. We’re holding off insulin till next visit to vet on Tuesday morning, so this was really for ourselves.
The vet said to set the code to 37.
But on reading the instructions, it said set to 8, for cats, which we did.
He was annoyed at the jab but happy five minutes afterwards.
The figure came up at 343- which, reading the booklet, I know is too high, but!! How does that relate to the figure the vet got of 23?? Baffled
Is this better or worse??
In other news, Bunchy seems entirely happy, playing, fighting, grooming and stuffing his face with Natural Instinct food, peeing normally, but nearly 48 hours since his last bowel movement, which is worrying but he’s had such a drastic diet change...
Any thoughts from you wonderful people very gratefully received xx
 
Racheltwinset said:
The figure came up at 343- which, reading the booklet, I know is too high, but!! How does that relate to the figure the vet got of 23?? Baffled
Is this better or worse??
Click to expand...
It appears that the 23 is the international standard units ( mmol/L) and corresponds to 368 in USA (and Germany and some other countries mg/dL) units. The 343 is about the same as 368. Yes, that is too high for long term but not unusual for a newly diagnosed cat.
 
Hi Rachel
I suggest starting a new thread to ask how the Alphatrak coding works - as this is a specific question now, you need more eyes on it than you'll likely get in this thread. I'm not sure tbh how the coding works but others here will know.

What I can tell you is that there are two different "languages" for measuring bg, and I think this is the explanation for the different numbers you're quoting above. Basically, the US uses a different measurement to the rest of the world (which we use in the UK). A number in the 100s is a US number, and a much lower number, in single digits, teens or 20s, is a rest of world number. It's not as complicated as it sounds! - to convert a US number into a UK number, just divide by 18. And to convert a UK number into a US number, multiply by 18. That's all. From what you say, it looks as if your meter is at present callibrated to US measurements - 343 is a US number, but by dividing it by 18 you get a number pretty much what we're expecting at the moment with no insulin being given.

So as for how the 343 reading you got relates to the 23 the vet got, it is probably simply that the vet's meter is set to UK measurements and yours isn't. The two don't exactly translate, for various reasons - mainly, bg is often higher at the vet due to stress, and also, bg will go up and down during the day anyway due to food intake and any other factors that may cause small variations.

Having said all that, well done for getting your first test! It's bound to be a little strange at first but he'll soon get used to it - do remember to give a small food treat afterwards as a reward for good behaviour, so he will come to associate the process positively.

Does this make sense?
 
36B7FD19-7079-4B77-B8D5-87F425AE1AE8.jpeg
Thanks Larry, we do understand it’s too high... but as high as that? We just found a blood sugar converter and that says it converts to 19? Which is some drop in 5 days... hate to get too optimistic, but that did feel like good news....
 
Diana&Tom said:
Hi Rachel
I suggest starting a new thread to ask how the Alphatrak coding works - as this is a specific question now, you need more eyes on it than you'll likely get in this thread. I'm not sure tbh how the coding works but others here will know.

What I can tell you is that there are two different "languages" for measuring bg, and I think this is the explanation for the different numbers you're quoting above. Basically, the US uses a different measurement to the rest of the world (which we use in the UK). A number in the 100s is a US number, and a much lower number, in single digits, teens or 20s, is a rest of world number. It's not as complicated as it sounds! - to convert a US number into a UK number, just divide by 18. And to convert a UK number into a US number, multiply by 18. That's all. From what you say, it looks as if your meter is at present callibrated to US measurements - 343 is a US number, but by dividing it by 18 you get a number pretty much what we're expecting at the moment with no insulin being given.

So as for how the 343 reading you got relates to the 23 the vet got, it is probably simply that the vet's meter is set to UK measurements and yours isn't. The two don't exactly translate, for various reasons - mainly, bg is often higher at the vet due to stress, and also, bg will go up and down during the day anyway due to food intake and any other factors that may cause small variations.

Having said all that, well done for getting your first test! It's bound to be a little strange at first but he'll soon get used to it - do remember to give a small food treat afterwards as a reward for good behaviour, so he will come to associate the process positively.

Does this make sense?
Click to expand...
It was quite stressful! But Bunchy forgave us almost instantly. And glad to have started.
We won’t get too excited, will do another one tomorrow evening, and see what the vet thinks on Tuesday morning.
And thank you, I’ll start a new thread tomorrow x
 
Racheltwinset said:
View attachment 45158 Thanks Larry, we do understand it’s too high... but as high as that? We just found a blood sugar converter and that says it converts to 19? Which is some drop in 5 days... hate to get too optimistic, but that did feel like good news....
Click to expand...
If you got the 19 at home and a mid-20 reading at the vet, it's perfectly possible that the vet number was elevated due to stress. Most cats get very anxious at the clinic and bg is nearly always higher there than at home.
 
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