Diabetes and Heart Disease

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Jill

Jill

Member Since 2010
I have a new test kit and I finally tested Alice for the first time. The reading was 472. She's due to eat a meal and get her insulin soon (third dose, I started yesterday evening). She doesn't even notice I'm needling her as she eats. I'll find a routine for testing and injection now, I think.

Alice is 16 years old. She has heart trouble, possibly even congestive heart failure. Her breathing is rapid and she's not getting enough oxygen. Her back legs are very weak. The vet has had her on Lasix for two weeks. It seems to have helped a little but not enough. Apparently cats don't respond very well to the usual treatments for heart disease in dogs or humans. Does anyone have any experience with this?
 
Did the vet do an echocardiogram or any further testing to find out what was going on? Can you get referred to a cardiologist? Smokey's cardiologist was one of the best dr.s we ever dealt with for her. Depending on the type of heart disease, medicine can manage it well.
 
Squeaker has Restrictive Cardiomyopathy and a 2/6 murmur. He experienced CHF 28 months ago.

It is really best if you take Alice to a cardiologist and get an echo done. Squeaker has been on heart meds for 28 months now and he is assessed by a cardiologist every 6 months. My concern here is what type of heart disease does Alice have and how bad is it. She may need an anti-coagulant to keep her from throwing a clot and a cardio is the best bet for this one.

Also if Alice has CHF, incorporating a lower sodium food can be very beneficial. Lowering the sodium will help to prevent fluid build up. The cardio advised lowering the sodium to 50-80 mg per k/cal. Some of the foods that fit this sodium level are: Little Friskies Classic Pate, Salmon, Poultry Platter, Flaked Tuna, Tuna with Egg-----Turkey and Giblets is loaded with sodium so it might be wise to avoid it.
 
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Jill said:
Her back legs are very weak.
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Hi Jill and Alice. I am not familiar with heart conditions but you mentioned a weakness in the hind legs. Some diabetic cats get neuropathy. If that is the case, getting Alice's number lower will help with that condition as well as Methyl B12. See below from something I posted to someone a few weeks ago.

Diabetic Neuropathy: Merlin had this condition and it was really severe. The symptoms are walking on their back hocks. Severe conditions may also include their front feet. Merlin could never go more than a couple of steps before sitting down. We had to put down rugs all over the place so he wouldn't slip on the tile. To help this condition is to regulate the diabetes and to give them methyl B12; Zobaline. If you go with another product, you must make sure that there are no sugars. It is a small pink pill and can be crushed and put in his food. Today, you can’t even tell Merlin had it. He can run, jump and walks on his tippy toes now. Here is a link to Zobaline. http://www.ilifelink.com/zobaline-for_diabetic_cats-3_mg_x_60_tablets.html
 
Another cause of difficulty standing and walking, especially with some diuretics, is low potassium. Discuss this with your vet.
 
My vet took X rays and did a BNP IDEXX test. He consulted with a kitty cardiologist after he did the diagnostic testing but to have the specialist see Alice would cost $700, so that's out. The Zobaline sounds like it would help. Thanks for the suggestion.

Zobaline consists of Methylcobalamin (B12) and folic acid. For humans, they're very inexpensive. Does anyone have experience giving the less expensive version to a kitty?
 
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@Sue484 -

Sue, can you let us know which medication Frankie gets? I like to learn about treatments that members have had success with.


Mogs
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For informational purposes only, this is what neuropathy symptoms look like:


It is referred to as a plantigrade stance. Note that both Tootsie's front and hind feet are affected. Sub-clinical neuropathy may manifest itself in more subtle ways such as: decrease in frequency of jumping onto higher surfaces; toileting problems (e.g. peeing in places other than the litter box).


Mogs
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Cindi, what dosage do you use for your kitty? I saw one pill that's 500 micrograms. How does that translate for a 12- to 16-lb cat? What portion of the pill do you give daily?
 
@Jill - I gave 3 mg per day. If it is a 3 mg tablet, I would cut it in half and give 1/2 in am and 1/2 in pm. Zobaline comes in 3 mg tablets and is easy to cut.
If the product is in mcg, then you will need 3,000 mcg to get 3 mg (500 mcg equals to 0.5 mg). Merlin was a 11 lb cat. B12 is water soluble so if you give a little too much, the body will only take what it needs and the rest goes out with the urine.
 
@Critter Mom Frankie is currently on half a 25mcg Atenolol tablet once a day. He started off on the Atenolol syrup (called Tenormin syrup) but once he was diagnosed diabetic, he had to switch to the tablets. From what I can remember it is a human beta blocker. The theory being, once his heart rate was slowed down, it would give the heart a chance to heal, which (paws crossed, anti jinx) it has.
 
I'm on diuretics and beta blockers myself, and it's been my plan to put Alice on beta blockers. It seemed the right thing to do and I'm happy to hear that you've done the same thing. Now I just have to convince my vet.
 
Jill said:
I have a new test kit and I finally tested Alice for the first time. The reading was 472. She's due to eat a meal and get her insulin soon (third dose, I started yesterday evening). She doesn't even notice I'm needling her as she eats. I'll find a routine for testing and injection now, I think.

Alice is 16 years old. She has heart trouble, possibly even congestive heart failure. Her breathing is rapid and she's not getting enough oxygen. Her back legs are very weak. The vet has had her on Lasix for two weeks. It seems to have helped a little but not enough. Apparently cats don't respond very well to the usual treatments for heart disease in dogs or humans. Does anyone have any experience with this?
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@Jill My sugar baby Frodo was diagnosed with Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy (HCM) this past November. Got up one morning and he was panting hard, and you could tell he felt horrible. After visit to emergency and then over to the cardiologist Frodo is now on 3/4's of a 20mg Lasix (15mg) tablet twice a day, and 1/2 of a 5mg Benazepril table and 1/4 of a 75mg Clopidogrel (Plavix) both once a day. It took a couple of weeks before they vet no longer saw the fluid in and around his lungs and around his heart. Frodo is my 2nd cat to have HCM. He has been doing great with meds, he is now due another chest exray and blood work, and he goes back to the cardiologist for another echo in May. Frodo is my 2nd cat to have HCM, the first one lived 7 years before his heart just finally gave out, he was around 16 years old. We used the same type of protocol on him.

You said after 2 weeks it does not look like the Lasix is working well. I am guessing since the vet put her on Lasix he saw fluid when he did the xray. How much Lasix is Alice taking daily? If Alice is not getting enough oxygen it is more than likely because of the fluid around and in the lungs, you need to up the dose of the Lasix and get your vet to do a chest xray weekly (it took 2 for Frodo) to monitor the results of the increase in dose. That is what it takes to figure out the right dose that will help pull the fluid out. Once the fluid is gone then you remain on the same dose going forward, and recheck every few months. Getting that fluid off Frodo's heart and lungs brought him back to his normal self and will make a big difference for Alice.

Let us know how she is doing.
 
She's doing better, both breathing and walking, and her BG is much lower. Testing and insulin shooting are going very well. But the X-ray was inconclusive and I have no more money for vet bills. I've already increased my credit card balance as much as I can and spent more than I could afford to pay for what's been done so far. The Lasix may be working or may not, but there are refills on the prescription and I can ask Dr. H if I can increase the dosage and see if it helps.
 
Jill said:
She's doing better, both breathing and walking, and her BG is much lower. Testing and insulin shooting are going very well. But the X-ray was inconclusive and I have no more money for vet bills. I've already increased my credit card balance as much as I can and spent more than I could afford to pay for what's been done so far. The Lasix may be working or may not, but there are refills on the prescription and I can ask Dr. H if I can increase the dosage and see if it helps.
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@Jill Believe me I totally understand handling the cost of vet bills. It sounds like the Lasix might be working to some extent if she is breathing better. How much Lasix are you giving Alice now? Frodo is on a 15mg twice a day and doing really well with it. I get a 3 month supply from Walgreens for $5. Their Prescription Drug program has really been a blessing for me since I have had several critters on meds and it is only $20 a year for one, $35 for multiple. Not sure how much you are paying for it, just thought I would let folks know this is a good option.

I hope Alice continues to improve.
 
Yes, Alice's walking is improving, slowly but surely. She's on her second bottle of Lasix, 10 mg twice a day. I counted her respiratory rate and it was 30, normal for cats. I haven't been able to test her very well lately, though. I try but don't get enough blood, and two tries is my limit. Her ears have little red hematomas all around the edges, which breaks my heart.
 
Hi Jill, a soothing salve may help her ears-even vaseline will help-
I use a essential oil product but many others use OVC salves--good luck :)
 
Jill said:
Her ears have little red hematomas all around the edges, which breaks my heart.
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I know that feeling. :bighug: When it got too much for me I would tell myself that, even though the state of Saoirse's ears was upsetting me, the memory of how poorly she was before starting insulin was much, much worse.

It does get easier to draw samples as more capillaries develop in the test zone. Remember to apply a bit of light pressure to the test site for a little while after drawing the sample; it helps a lot.


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