DESPERATELY NEED ADVICE NOW !!!!!!!!!

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Mom-Mom

Mom-Mom

Member Since 2014
My cat is a 9yr. Domestic Long Hair female recently diagnosed with diabetes. The vet put her on Lantus. She takes 1.5 every 12 hours. Over the last week I have been testing 4 times daily. 1st in the am before food (usually 8am), 2nd between 11-noon, 3rd is 12 hours after 1st shot (8pm) and finally right before bed (around 10pm. On 4/1 she was "hi" in the a.m so I gave her 1.5 insulin (Lantus) The 2nd test around 1:30 she was 449. Then the 3rd test was 38. The 4th test was 77. She did not get p.m insulin. On 4/2 She was "hi" on 1st test so she ate, then got her 1.5. At 11 a.m she was 444. Her 3rd test was 51 @ 7:30 so she did NOT get p.m. insulin. Today, 4/3 She was 439 in the a.m so she ate then got her 1.5. Her 2nd test @ noon was still 439. The 3rd @ 2:45 was 510. Another test @ 4pm was 595, I was told to give her another 1/2 shot, so I did after ahe ate @ 5 p.m. What am I doing wrong??????? I test her keytones daily and they are normal?????? What should I do????
PLEASE HELP ANYONE
 
HI,

hi, and welcome.
If you are using a human meter, you do not want the pet's reading to go below 50. I would suggest the Relion meter from Walmart. I know the accuracy of the Freestyle has been questioned in articles. If she is getting below 50, it tells you the insulin dosage is too high. How long has MOmo been on insulin? I would probably drop her down to 1 unit since she has had some low numbers. It is good to check midcycle. In many pets, their lowest reading is between 5-7 hours after the shot. MOm-mom went pretty low. Sometimes after going into lower numbers that a cat's body isn't used to and to -protect itself, the pet's liver releases hormones which cause the blood sugar to rise. The term bouncing is used for this phenomenom. It can take a few cycles for the bouncing to stop and for the cat's numbers to regulate. how long has Momo been on insulin? It takes time for a cat's body to adjust to Lantus and several cycles to adjust to the dose.
 
Hi again, :-D

I've copied over what I wrote in your thread on the Main Health Forum into this thread:

Welcome Mom-Mom and Mom-Mom's Caretaker! :YMHUG:

Mom-Mom said:
I was using a meter called TRUEtrak until today, I got the Freestyle Lite.
Click to expand...
Other users have reported problems with both of these meters reporting feline BGs (Blood Glucose) accurately. If you're in the US, the Walmart ReliOn brand is a popular one around here, especially because the test strips are so cheap (which is where the cost adds up quickly).

Mom-Mom said:
I test her in the a.m. 2 hours before breakfast, then again between 11-4, again 12 hours from the 1st shot, and once before bed. I test her keytones daily and they are good.
...When I get a reading over 300ish I usually give her a shot (same dose every time 1.5).
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It's great that you're already testing for ketones and that they've been negative. :thumbup What time do you normally give her the shot? Two hours before her breakfast? How often are you giving it? Lantus works best on a consistent dosing scale, twice a day (BID), every 12 hours. There is about a half hour a day of flexibility in shot times, but other than that, you want to remain as tightly to that 12-hour schedule as possible.

Mom-Mom said:
Her readings are so off the wall. One day in the morning around 8am, it read high, then at 11am it was 34???? Then the 8pm was 114. Obviously, she didnt get insulin that night. She is on Lantus. I did nothing different and this morning was 439, at 11am it was still 439 but I did a spot check at 3pm and it was 504. Why am I getting these DRASTIC jumps?
Click to expand...

34 is considered hypoglycemic and that counts as an automatic dose reduction! You want her to remain above 50. Depending on how you're dosing her (every 12 hours or every time she's over 300??), these swings could either be because the dose is too high or because you're dosing too frequently/inconsistently.

My suggestion would be first to drop her dose down to 1u and, second, to start dosing only every 12 hours apart (if you're not already) as long as her pre-shot number is over 200. If it's under 200, post here first for further advice on what to do next.
 
Welcome!

I agree with KPassa. Most importantly pay attention to those lower numbers. If your kitty is getting down low, he ears a dose reduction, even if at other times in the cycle he is really high. Sometimes too much insulin will act like not enough. If you are new to the board and Lantus start by reading some of the STICKY's and get your kitty started on a more consistent schedule of insulin dose every 12 hours. Also, you may want to start a spreadsheet to keep track of things like most of us have on here, links in our signatures. That way we can all look at the spreadsheet too to help you troubleshoot, without you having to type out every BG amount. What kind of food is your kitty eating?
 
I have to log off to go to a meeting, and have only scanned your thread. Please do not give more insulin at 8:00pm, if you gave insulin at 5:00pm. The next dose should be given 12 hours after the last insulin given.
 
It will be much easier to help if we can have a visual of Mom-Mom's numbers so a spreadsheet will be very useful.

It's not unusual for some cats to have a marked response to insulin and experience what you noted -- numbers drop several hours after a dose and keep dropping. By the next shot, the numbers are to low to comfortably shoot, so you skip. The next morning, numbers are high again and the cycle repeats.

It's possible that your kitty was started on too high of a dose of Lantus or, if you've changed her to a low carb diet, this is a factor that's contributing to the low numbers. Between the drop below 50 and the swings in numbers, I would suggest decreasing your kitty's dose to either 1.0u or 1.25u.

Also, like Dyana said, do not give another dose at your usual shot time.
 
i want to add my welcome. we can help you get out of the pit you are in and the feelings of desperation you're feeling. :YMHUG:

please get a spreadsheet set up - we are data-oriented and the numbers tell us what's going on and what needs to change. You're doing a super job of getting tests in.

I agree about reducing the dose, and would reiterate that you need 12 hrs before your next shot.

Keep asking us questions and we'll give you a hand. You're not alone. We understand Lantus and diabetic cats, so you're in the right place now.
 
Thank You EVERYONE for the advice. I have been giving her a slice here and there of turkey and ham lunchmeat. I have 2 meters. An accu-check and a ReliOn confirm that I bought this morning. Once again the numbers keep going up and the meters are not nearly the same. I got a 506 from the Accu-check and a "hi" from the ReliOn. Now what???? Her last shot was around 8am and its only 3pm now. Is there anything I can do? She looks good and shes eating and drinking water. Shes a little sleepy but thats pretty normal for her around this time. She was playful all day and did not act bizarre like she did the last time she was hi for a long time. What should I do?????
 
WHAT AM I GONNA DO NOW !!!!!!!!!

Mom-Mom said:
Thank You EVERYONE for the advice. I have been giving her a slice here and there of turkey and ham lunchmeat. I have 2 meters. An accu-check and a ReliOn confirm that I bought this morning. Once again the numbers keep going up and the meters are not nearly the same. I got a 506 from the Accu-check and a "hi" from the ReliOn. Now what???? Her last shot was around 8am and its only 3pm now. Is there anything I can do? She looks good and shes eating and drinking water. Shes a little sleepy but thats pretty normal for her around this time. She was playful all day and did not act bizarre like she did the last time she was hi for a long time. What should I do?????
Click to expand...
 
Unfortunately, no 2 meters are the same, and there will be about a 20% variance between the 2.

I think with the ham, it may contain sugar in it, hence the reason why she's climbing. I'm not sure about the turkey, other than it has tritophan (spelling) in it, if it's the real turkey meat, and not the processed. I think all processed human meat contains some amount of sugar, although I could be wrong.

Can you try and get the spread sheet working and in your signature so that we can see how she's doing? That would be extremely helpful to us, and then we'd be able to advise you on what to do. Someone who posted previously gave you the link on how to set up the spread sheet.
 
MOM-MOM CHART

I posted Mom-Mom's chart for about the last 6 days or so. Can you see it? If not what am I sapposed to do to make it public?
 
You'll need to post the URL of the file and make the file public by sharing it. Can you copy and paste the URL into a message here? It's nice if you can put it in your signature (see the User Control Panel link at the top of the page).
Liz

ETA: To edit the signature, click on User Control Panel at the top of the page, then click on Profile, then click on Edit Signature. You can paste the URL in the window, then click on Submit.
 
Hi there!

I'm new here as well, and only two weeks in as of tomorrow, these ladies are wonderful and give sound advice! They will help guide you in the right direction! That SpreadSheet is imperative to kitty's success! how to set up your spreadsheet

I know just how freaked out you are right now, just take it one step at a time and come here as often as you can to ask questions! Best of luck to you and I hope you and kitty get on the right track ASAP!!!

-Brian
 
S'mee again, about food stuffs, here is a link to some good foods for kitty to try. From what I gather, most people use Fancy Feast & Friskies. Treats are best if they are freeze dried all meat treats, kitty will thank you too!!!

List of approved foods under 10% carbs

hope this helps, I'm too new to give advice, but these lists helped me get them off dry foods and the spreadsheet was a godsend!
 
Hi there. I see that you increased the dose this morning. I would immediately decrease the dose to 1.25 tonight. That 38 she got meant that the 1.50 was too high of a dose. She is bouncing right now because of that low number. I would go with the 1.25 dose for 6 cycles at least, unless she's gets another number below 50. Please continue to give the insulin as close to 12 hours apart as possible. Lantus and Levemir like consistancy. Bounces just require lots of patience. She will come down.
 
good deal on getting kitty's spreadsheet up! I am posting a reply to bump your post to the top. Some experienced helpertons will most likely chime in with some advice and or more questions!

If you have any, lay it on them! They are wonderful and are here to help!

Best way to get things rolling is to continue posting a new thread (called condos around here for some reason) every day.

When you start a new topic, do your subject to the effect of:

4/4 MomMom AMPS (glucose reading here)

As the day progresses and you have more info to share, start by editing the subject of your first post on that thread by adding any +number reading you have and click on the question mark icon if you have a question so someone will know you need an answer, submit that, then go to the very end of the thread and reply to the thread with any new information or questions you may have.

There are a lot of folks constantly updating or commenting on threads, so you may have to refresh your browser often to see if you have received a response.

I hope this helps! Have a nice evening!
 
i agree with Dyana & Sienne. Reduce the dose tonight - at least to 1.25u, maybe even 1.0u.

There are a couple of really important things that are a bit hard to wrap your head around.

One is that not all high numbers need more insulin. Sometimes it means that the cat is getting too much insulin. Sometimes it means that the cat has gotten into lower numbers that they are used to.

The other thing is that we don't change a dose based upon the high numbers in a cycle. Lantus and Levemir are both depot-type of insulins, meaning that they build in the body and "slow-release." We make dosing decisions for these insulins based upon the LOW numbers in a cycle. Because of the way they work in the body, we look at the past 2-4 days and ask the question

"how low is this dose able to take the cat?"

In your case, 1.5u is too much insulin. We know that because it took mom mom to a number in the 30's. That's very evident to us - she needs less insulin.

It's really important for you to reduce the dose. The high numbers are less of a danger to her than having a dose that is too large. The high numbers will pass. Ignore them and reduce the dose.
 
i saw you shot 1.0u tonight - fantastic. so glad you saw our posts!

you'll want to hold this dose for at least 6 cycles (shots) unless she goes under 50 again. i noticed that after she bounced from the 38 to HI the next morning, she was still able to clear the bounce and get down into the 50's 24 hrs later. That tells us she's clearing bounces quickly.

It's possible that she will drop down out of these high numbers anytime. If you're able to check her blood sugar about every 3 hours over the next day (not while you're sleeping!) that would be helpful. That'll let us know when she clears this bounce and how low she's going to go on 1unit.

Here's a post (read both posts in thread) that describes 2 occasions for a high number that don't mean a cat needs more insulin: New Dose Wonkiness & Bounces
 
She started out hi, went to 285 at 11:30, then 374 at 3:00, now shes 436 at 6pm. She doesn't get her shot until 8pm. Should I still go down to 0.25????
 
I wasn't sure if I put it in the right place, still learning and making mistakes. Thank You. Now I know
 
Mom-mom's sugar has been running high for a little while. I have been on the 0.25 U of Lantus for the past 7 days and 7 nights. Maybe time for a change????
 
Hi Laura!! (It would be great if you'd add your name to the Signature line so it'd be easier to remember your name!!)

It's almost impossible to say if Mom-mom needs more insulin without some test results in the PM cycle. Most cats go lower at night, so it's possible she's going low at night and then bouncing higher in the daytime.

Could you get some testing done during the PM cycle for a few days so we can see what's happening? If you can just get a "before bed" test in, it'll help to fill in the blanks. The spreadsheet is kind of like a puzzle...if you only have the edges filled in, it's hard to see the whole picture

Without knowing where she's going at night, I'm not comfortable telling you to increase at this time.

It would also be great if you could post a little more often to keep us updated on how she's doing. If you can't do a new post each day, maybe every other day? Just come to the Lantus board each day (if possible) and start a new post (we call them condo's). Put the date, her name, and the AMPS number for that day in the Subject line, and then in the body of the post, copy the link from the prior post and "paste" it into the new one (so we can quickly go back to see what's been going on). You'd just "copy" the link in the address bar, click on the URL tab along the top of the post, and then "paste" the link. It'd look something like this [color=#FF0000]Your link here[/colo...ke to know how she's doing in other ways too!
 
Laura:

Can you please start a new thread? We don't like to let threads/condos become overly long. In addition, we try to keep one thread per cat per day. We use a particular convention for the subject line:

Date Cat's name AMPS-#, +time-#​

I am uncomfortable offering any recommendations regarding a dose change without at least one test during the PM cycle. Many cats experience lower numbers at night. In addition, without the tests, you're missing half of your data.
 
I havent been well myself so I havent posted in the p.m. As far as the 5 p's shes been doing much better. She has been going and I do hear her purring. She has always tended to hide since the day I bought her home from the pet store. She just likes to hide. But usually I can tell she dont want to be bothered if she is laying in the middle of under the bed, per the one side, where its easier to get her out. She has been her usual sweetie pie self. I will do more P.M. posting.

p.s. (I just LOVE J.D ) He is sooo cute LOL
 
Mom Mom "hi" all day???

Mom-mom has been running high for the entire day and I am starting to worry. Yesterday she was being really picky about what she was eating so she ate like 4 slices of ham. Could that be the reason. ???? Today she did not have any ham but has been eating her usual classic Fancy Feast food. She ate pretty good today. I am gonna test again at 8 before I give her insulin. Alot of reason I dont test at night is because I fall asleep really early. Im gonna do a P.M. test tonight, maybe two. So am I staying with the 0.25???
 
Yes Laura, stay with the .25 for tonight

Tomorrow, please start a new condo here in the Lantus Tight Regulation Forum...this one is getting too long
 
Hi Laura,

A new "condo" simply means a brand new topic. You'll see a button on the upper left-hand side of the page that says "NEWTOPIC." It's under the Subscribe/Shop/Home Testing graphics and right below where it says "Lantus (Glargine) - Tight Regulation." Click on the "NEWTOPIC" button. That will bring up a new box for you to type in. Put the date, Mom-Mom's name, and the bg readings for the day in the subject line.

For instance, the subject of your topic or "condo" for today would be something like: "4/14 Mom-Mom AMPS - HI." As you get additional readings throughout the day, you would go back to this same topic - your "condo" and update your subject line so that the new readings are included. For example: "4/14 Mom-Mom AMPS - HI, +1 - HI, +4 - HI"

Each day, you start a new topic (condo) in the same way. If you'll start doing this each day, it will help others more easily see what's going on with Mom-Mom. When the posts get really long, like this one is now, it's easy for new information to get "lost" in them.

Does that make sense? If you have the time, go ahead and start a new condo for today - just like I described above.

We do ask that you include other information in your daily condos (like a link to the previous day's post), but let's just work on getting a new condo (topic) set up for you right now. We'll worry about the other details later.

Have a great night, Laura!
Shelly
 
SHELLY
Thank You for explaining that to me. I will do that tomorrow. She was at a 559 @ +3, I have my alarm set for 2am (+6) and will post again. Maybe (as someone suggested) the sugar is hi during the day and evens out at night. Do you think it might have something to do with the lunchmeat ham I gave her, she ate 4 slice. But that day (2 days ago) she wouldnt eat ANYTHING else. Shes eating very well now. I have my fingers crossed. With the grace of God, she will even out. Until 2am, Good night all and God Bless
 
I just looked at my lunch meat (turkey and cheese, and bologna), and the bologna has corn syrup in it. Check the ingredients of the ham that you're giving her as it quite possibly may contain corn syrup. Unless you're trying to bring a kitty out of a dangerous range of #s (ie. below 50 or lower), corn syrup is only good for that, providing nothing else works. My guess is that the ham (4 slices of it that you've fed her) has raised her #s up like it has due to the possible sugar content in it. I would suggest not giving that to her anymore and see how her #s react. She may bring those #s down once the ham has been eliminated from her diet. She really needs to be on a low carb, NO sugar diet.
 
Angela Thank You for your concern, I did take your advice and stopped giving her ham the other day. Actually, I only did it because she wouldn't eat anything else. It seems like her sugars are normal this morning (FINALLY) she was at 70 at 8am and 110 at 9am. I did not give her insulin. Did I do the right thing? I sure hope so. She seems pretty good today
 
Mom - Mom's jump UUUPPPP. Is she OK?

Mom-mop was at 70 this morning. I didnt give her insulin. From that time she has gone up, as shown, +1 =110, +4 =214, +6 =336, +8 = 518. She now has about 3 hours until shot time. I should just wait until then?
 
Laura, as we've all been saying, PLEASE start a new condo each day instead of continuing to post on an old one. It's the only way we can really keep track of everyone. It takes too long to go over a long thread that spreads over days (or longer) of advice.

Just start a new one each day by clicking on "New Topic"...then in the subject line put the date, cats name and AMPS reading...so yours for today would look like this:

4/16 Mom Mom AMPS 70,+1 110,+4 214,+6 336,+8 518

In the body of the condo, you'd put the link to the prior day's post, and let us know how Mom Mom is doing...as well as asking any questions you have.

Right now, the only thing I'm going to say is that it looks like Mom Mom is bouncing. This is not an emergency. High numbers do damage slowly..it's low numbers that kill.

Please start a new condo with the above format
 
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