Dental is Done ~ Question

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Bobbie And Bubba

Bobbie And Bubba

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Posted in Health as well

Well, the dental cleaning and two extractions of maxillary premolars is completed. I will be picking up my boy in another 45 minutes, YEAH. It did not go without a hitch. This AM I was allowed to feed him 1/2 the amount of food he would normally eat at 5:30 AM and to dose him 1/2 his normal dose. He was 384 AMPS. He didn't have to arrive at the vets until 10AM as he was a 1:30 pm appointment. Before I headed out the door, I decided to get a reading on him and he had dropped to 209 at +3.5. Yikes, so I took him and talked to the vet before they took him back. The choices were to reschedule in 2 weeks, first available appointment or,give him a glucose drip. I went with the drip and they got him up into the 500's! He's never been that high that I know of. So, as soon as I can get some food into him, I want to dose him because I just know he can't feel good going from 209 to the 500's. Should I give him his normal dose? Any input would be good.
 
I'm not sure, Bobbi. I soul be a little nervous about dosing too early - before +10 or so - because I don't know anything about glucose drips and whether they stay in the body or not.

Where are you in terms of time since this am shot?
 
I would not dose until +12 or later depending at what time I get home and can feed him probably around 6-7 pm EST . And, what if he doesn't eat? Dose a small amount??
 
I'm with Sue here: If he'll eat for you (& he probably will) I'd go with his usual dose. Keep in mind that the effect of that glucose drip is only temporary, so even if he's still running higher than usual when you get him home tonight, he'll likely even out for you over the next couple of days.
 
So glad Bubba is back home. So what is interesting is that you gave half a dose in which you probably would have gone with a normal dose and Bubba went down as if he got a full dose. Interesting.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Okay, thanks Ladies, BUBBA IS IN THE HOUSE!! And he is hungry!
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Merlin said:
So glad Bubba is back home. So what is interesting is that you gave half a dose in which you probably would have gone with a normal dose and Bubba went down as if he got a full dose. Interesting.
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Well, I think part of that is that I found his last night's dinner thrown up in the basement after he ate this morning and I all ready dosed him as recommended by the vet. So, that poor guy basically went "unfed" all night, unbeknownst to me until this morning and then this morning he only got 1/2 of the food he normally would. :( But, he had been enjoying some lower cycles prior. Here's hoping those nasty teeth out will help.
 
Here a photo of one of the bad teeth removed. The same tooth on the other side of his mouth was removed. Ouch
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Yeah, Bobbie, don't feel like a bad kitty-mama. Just think about it: How many of our vets ever even discuss cat dental health with us? I can tell you, in my case, it was NEVER - in over a span of more than 10 years and having had Bat-Bat seen by FOUR different vets in that decade! So give yourself a break - you're a GREAT cat-mom! And the good news is: Those bad teeth are now history.:):cat::bighug:
 
Robin&BB said:
Yeah, Bobbie, don't feel like a bad kitty-mama. Just think about it: How many of our vets ever even discuss cat dental health with us? I can tell you, in my case, it was NEVER - in over a span of more than 10 years and having had Bat-Bat seen by FOUR different vets in that decade! So give yourself a break - you're a GREAT cat-mom! And the good news is: Those bad teeth are now history.:):cat::bighug:
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Thanks Robin, but, my vet told me a few years ago he needed a good cleaning. In your case, yeah, your vet was remiss. It's water under the bridge now. Tomorrow is another day, Scarlet.
 
Sharon14 said:
Don't feel bad, Colin's never had one either. I'm taking him Wed. for a check up and will discuss it with the vet. I'm still nervous about it...
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It will be okay Sharon. It is always nerve racking to put an animal under general anesthesia for the first time or any time for that matter. But, the outcome out weighs the fears. We will cheer you on when he has to have a dental cleaning.!:bighug:
 
Psht! Whatever, Bobbie, you can't fool us. We KNOW you are a great kitty mama! We've seen you here. You have taken his diagnosis in stride, tested him constantly, posted here for help, and done everything you need to help. That is a good kitty mama!

My babies have never had a cleaning. It was never mentioned for Gypsy (though I wonder now if that would have pushed her into remission...we'll never know but I wish I did!). They mentioned it for the others at the old vet, but not at the new one...and paying off bills from our latest visits doesn't leave enough for them. You're not alone here!
 
Rachel said:
Psht! Whatever, Bobbie, you can't fool us. We KNOW you are a great kitty mama! We've seen you here. You have taken his diagnosis in stride, tested him constantly, posted here for help, and done everything you need to help. That is a good kitty mama!

My babies have never had a cleaning. It was never mentioned for Gypsy (though I wonder now if that would have pushed her into remission...we'll never know but I wish I did!). They mentioned it for the others at the old vet, but not at the new one...and paying off bills from our latest visits doesn't leave enough for them. You're not alone here!
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Thanks Rachel, I can intellectualize all that and then I still feel guilty, but, I not going to wallow in it. It's over, and hopefully the cleaning and extrractions helps.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Thanks Robin, but, my vet told me a few years ago he needed a good cleaning. In your case, yeah, your vet was remiss. It's water under the bridge now. Tomorrow is another day, Scarlet.
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And I didn't mean that as anything bad about your vet because your vet seems awesome! What I was trying to say was, you are off the guilty hook, I am not. I knew he needed a cleaning years ago. Ignoring it cost him two teeth, pain, inflammation and possibly his BG numbers to stay elevated, and me lots of $$. I just wanted to clarify that you didn't think I was slamming your vet. :cat:
 
I do not want to intrude, but I am curious about the cleaning and extractions. My Jaspers teeth are in rough shape but since his numbers are still a little wonky (which from what I understand could be in part to his bad teeth) my vet wants to hold off on his dental care. But I can only imagine how painful his mouth is. What prompted you to get the dental care he needed and how does it work with a sugar kitty? Thank you!
 
Hine87 said:
I do not want to intrude, but I am curious about the cleaning and extractions. My Jaspers teeth are in rough shape but since his numbers are still a little wonky (which from what I understand could be in part to his bad teeth) my vet wants to hold off on his dental care. But I can only imagine how painful his mouth is. What prompted you to get the dental care he needed and how does it work with a sugar kitty? Thank you!
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Hi there! No intrusion, that's why we are all here, to learn and help our kitties. What prompted me to have the cleaning and extractions done now was because his numbers were so wonky. The vet had recommended it to me a few years ago to get them cleaned. ( and I was remiss, bad momma) Reading here on the forum that infections or inflammation could cause the numbers to stay high, I decided to have the vet check his mouth out and sure enough, he now had two bad teeth. Cavities to the gum line. So, we had the cleaning and the extractions done and hopefully, I will see his numbers come down. Feel free to peak at his SS from time to time. I am so hoping this will help. Plus, I think he was starting to have pain because when he would eat, he would turn his head to the side almost like he was trying to avoid a certain tooth. Pain can inflate their BG numbers also. Fingers crossed. Good luck with Jasper and his cleaning adventure. Seems like there were a handful of us just recently having our kitties done. Lots of support here. And nice to meet you! What is your name?
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Hi there! No intrusion, that's why we are all here, to learn and help our kitties. What prompted me to have the cleaning and extractions done now was because his numbers were so wonky. The vet had recommended it to me a few years ago to get them cleaned. ( and I was remiss, bad momma) Reading here on the forum that infections or inflammation could cause the numbers to stay high, I decided to have the vet check his mouth out and sure enough, he now had two bad teeth. Cavities to the gum line. So, we had the cleaning and the extractions done and hopefully, I will see his numbers come down. Feel free to peak at his SS from time to time. I am so hoping this will help. Plus, I think he was starting to have pain because when he would eat, he would turn his head to the side almost like he was trying to avoid a certain tooth. Pain can inflate their BG numbers also. Fingers crossed. Good luck with Jasper and his cleaning adventure. Seems like there were a handful of us just recently having our kitties done. Lots of support here. And nice to meet you! What is your name?
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PS. How does it work with a sugar kittie? Well, it seems like Every Vet is Different too (EVID) Mine told me to feed him 1/2 amount of food and give 1/2 the insulin amount early that morning and he did him in the afternoon. His numbers started to go down quickly in the first 3 hours so the vet supported him with glucose to make sure he didn't go hypo while under.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
PS. How does it work with a sugar kittie? Well, it seems like Every Vet is Different too (EVID) Mine told me to feed him 1/2 amount of food and give 1/2 the insulin amount early that morning and he did him in the afternoon. His numbers started to go down quickly in the first 3 hours so the vet supported him with glucose to make sure he didn't go hypo while under.
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We just went through DKA a few weeks ago (really scary!) and now I am super paranoid about not getting his numbers under control. After that happened and we brought him home and the vet said to give him 3 units twice daily but after a few days my husband felt that the 3 units was too high (he has more experience with diabetes than I do, I have none (other than Jasper)) so we let the vet know and she said we could do 2 units instead but wanted to drop .5 units at a time to see how he would do at 2.5 but than he started bouncing-we dropped him to 2 units last night. I feel like I am learning about all of this over again-we moved back from Japan in May/June and Jasper was diagnosed last November but the vet in Japan sure did not seem to know much about diabetes and would always ask me how I wanted to treat him...
But both of the vets didn't feel comfortable with putting him under with his numbers being wonky but I had wondered how we would get the numbers down without getting his teeth taken care of if that causes his numbers to be like that? I have to take him in next week for a check up (because of the DKA) and I think I will go ahead and ask about his teeth.
 
I don't have any experience with DKA but I know from what I have read, it is very scary and very dangerous. Hopefully, you and the vet will come to a safe and reasonable conclusion as to what and when about the teeth. You must be military? You said you were in Japan and now NC. Camp LeJune by any chance?
 
CatX4 said:
Glad Bubba is doing well and through with the scary dental extraction! He will be even better now and hopefully better BG's. Look out mice, Bubba is back!
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Yeah, he's got the smell of mice in his memory bank and he is soooooo itchy to go. Thanks Lynn!
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
I don't have any experience with DKA but I know from what I have read, it is very scary and very dangerous. Hopefully, you and the vet will come to a safe and reasonable conclusion as to what and when about the teeth. You must be military? You said you were in Japan and now NC. Camp LeJune by any chance?
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I caught it pretty early, even than he had round the clock fluids, insulin, and potassium. Yes! Well, my husband is active duty and I am a vet. My husband is in aviation so he is on the base next to Camp Lejeune at New River. =) I go to school full time (online) so it makes it easier to care for Jasper if anything happens. Oh! and I am Sarah by the way. :)
 
Nice to meet you Sarah! It sure makes it easier to be able to care for our sugar babies being home with them. And so glad you caught it early. Scary stuff. I was born in Camp Lejune! My Daddy was a lifer, Marine. Served in 3 wars, WWII, Korea, and Viet Nam. My little sister is the only one of us 5 kids not born on a base; we were living in Kinston NC then while Dad was in Viet Nam. Thank you for your service!:bighug: And tell your husband thank you too! It's a tough life and my hat goes off to you both. Good luck with the dental thing. I'm sure once Jasper is completely better from the DKA espisode your Vet will guide you when it's time to handle the teeth. Infection and pain don't help our sugar babies at all. Hey, and a strange coincidence, my Dad's Dad's name was Jasper. ;) Glad we could meet. And see you around the forum.
 
I do not know if Smokey has ever had dental care. There is nothing in his records. Because of age and diabetes the vet doesn't want him under anesthesia. I don't know if it's right or not but I certainly don't want them doing it if they are reluctant.

My previous vet of 30 years never mentioned dental care. When he got a new associate he always looked and discussed it. He said it was just starting (at that time) to be taught in vet school so it wasn't common practice for older established vets.

I always ask for my cats teeth to be checked if I notice the vet didn't look at them. I also have one cat who had bartonella when we found her. Very contagious to other animals. So I make sure she is always checked. And cleaning scheduled if needed.
 
woodsywife said:
I do not know if Smokey has ever had dental care. There is nothing in his records. Because of age and diabetes the vet doesn't want him under anesthesia. I don't know if it's right or not but I certainly don't want them doing it if they are reluctant.

My previous vet of 30 years never mentioned dental care. When he got a new associate he always looked and discussed it. He said it was just starting (at that time) to be taught in vet school so it wasn't common practice for older established vets.

I always ask for my cats teeth to be checked if I notice the vet didn't look at them. I also have one cat who had bartonella when we found her. Very contagious to other animals. So I make sure she is always checked. And cleaning scheduled if needed.
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Paula, I think if my cat was 17 years old, I would think twice before putting them through general anesthesia too. I understand where you vet is coming from.
 
woodsywife said:
I agree. I won't have dental on him. I was just stating how dental isn't common practice.
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I was thinking about that today. What constitutes common practice. Is it a ECID thing or a EVID thing or is it whether or not the vet values the importance of it. I just don't know. All I can say, is that I still struggle with ignoring my vets RX a few years ago. And then there are some that never have it RX to them. You can't do anything about something you don't know about. And again, I so agree with your decision on you very senior cat. I would do the same.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Nice to meet you Sarah! It sure makes it easier to be able to care for our sugar babies being home with them. And so glad you caught it early. Scary stuff. I was born in Camp Lejune! My Daddy was a lifer, Marine. Served in 3 wars, WWII, Korea, and Viet Nam. My little sister is the only one of us 5 kids not born on a base; we were living in Kinston NC then while Dad was in Viet Nam. Thank you for your service!:bighug: And tell your husband thank you too! It's a tough life and my hat goes off to you both. Good luck with the dental thing. I'm sure once Jasper is completely better from the DKA espisode your Vet will guide you when it's time to handle the teeth. Infection and pain don't help our sugar babies at all. Hey, and a strange coincidence, my Dad's Dad's name was Jasper. ;) Glad we could meet. And see you around the forum.
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Oh that is great! My aunt had been born there as well! Along with my son =) My grandfather was a lifer (I know he was there for Vietnam) as well and my father served 6 years in the reserves. I just took the different route and went Navy (although due to a friend that had convinced me to join with her (although she backed out a week before she was supposed to ship out and I was half way through boot camp)). We are not too far from Kinston, we are living in Richlands! Although that sounds like a bit of a drive to work everyday for your father. And thank you! (and of course to your father as well). Jaspers numbers still are wonky, sitting at two units right now still and not sure how to proceed. He seemed to be bouncing with the 2.5 units but he was at 2 units before when he got DKA in the first place. =( I really wonder if it has something to do with his teeth...I take him back to the vet on Friday so I will surely be discussing this with her.
 
Hine87 said:
Oh that is great! My aunt had been born there as well! Along with my son =) My grandfather was a lifer (I know he was there for Vietnam) as well and my father served 6 years in the reserves. I just took the different route and went Navy (although due to a friend that had convinced me to join with her (although she backed out a week before she was supposed to ship out and I was half way through boot camp)). We are not too far from Kinston, we are living in Richlands! Although that sounds like a bit of a drive to work everyday for your father. And thank you! (and of course to your father as well). Jaspers numbers still are wonky, sitting at two units right now still and not sure how to proceed. He seemed to be bouncing with the 2.5 units but he was at 2 units before when he got DKA in the first place. =( I really wonder if it has something to do with his teeth...I take him back to the vet on Friday so I will surely be discussing this with her.
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It's worth a trip to the vet to check into about the teeth. Small world with the military connections. If you have any dosing questions, don't hesitate to post and be guided. I am asking alllllll the time.
 
Next month, Merlin is going to turn 19. Merlin's last dental was at 17 1/2 years old. He recovered well from the dental. I was a nervous wreck but by the next day, he was back to normal. So I think even seniors can handle a dental cleaning. Oh by the way, he had one of his fangs pulled because of a fracture.
 
Merlin said:
Next month, Merlin is going to turn 19. Merlin's last dental was at 17 1/2 years old. He recovered well from the dental. I was a nervous wreck but by the next day, he was back to normal. So I think even seniors can handle a dental cleaning. Oh by the way, he had one of his fangs pulled because of a fracture.
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My civvie cat, Forrest, was a rescue, not sure how old he was (vet said between 5 -10 at that time) He came to us with a fractured tooth and it had to be extracted eventually because it abscessed. Now, his upper lip gets hung up where that tooth used to be. When that happens, we call him "Elvis" Does Merlin's upper lip get hung up? And is Merlin part Siamese He looks like my Sug, GA and she was a Blue Point. Wow, and 19! What longevity.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
It's worth a trip to the vet to check into about the teeth. Small world with the military connections. If you have any dosing questions, don't hesitate to post and be guided. I am asking alllllll the time.
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It sure is! When I was stationed on the ship I met a girl that I worked with in security and came to find out months later she was from the same town as me and had dated my best (guy) friend at the time. That was pretty crazy.
I took Jasper to the vet today and since he is doing well she wants to take care of his teeth soon, now to figure out when we can do it since we are still recouping from our move and from the DKA. She thinks that we can go ahead and keep him at the 2 units and he would be ok but we can also go ahead and try 1.5 units to see how he does with that. In another forum Sue and Oliver suggested varying his dosage on what he numbers are-that is something I will try too since some of his testing is still wonky but I am really thinking it's because of the teeth. How has your kitty been since the surgery?
 
Hopefully the dental helps. Bubba was good 2 days afterwards with his numbers then bounce and he has been going to low to shoot at scheduled time and them he bounces. It is quite a ride! But, overall, his numbers are coming down, so I think it helped, and at least I know there is no infection and he is out of pain, all of which can contribute to higher numbers. Good luck with it, you will be glad when it is behind you. Keep up posted about when and if you need dosing help, don't be afraid to ask. :bighug:
 
Hey, nice amps this morning! I wonder if his levels are wonky because the dental is improving things and he is trying to adjust. Regardless, I like the trend!
 
Who knows with Bubba, Sue, he is killing me. His lowest point for last night's cycle was 154 at the +9.5 which was breakfast time. So this AMPS was 2.25 hours after that food. I will be glad when I have him back on his normal schedule of 6a and 6p for feeding.
 
He is acting like a kitty whose pancreas is working every so often, and completely confusing his owner. It could be that, or you may be getting the same kind of action because of the dental and any possible infection clearing.

I know it is hard to look at this as a blessing, but his numbers are certainly looking better overall, and definitely trending downward. I know it is hard to adjust back to your regular schedule when his nadirs are late, but blue nadirs are good, even if they come late.

If you want to get back on schedule, you could give him a smaller dose and expect higher levels and then maybe you'll have a shootable pre shot at the right time?
 
About the schedule, he is 2 hours off his normal feeding (because of 9/2 PMPS and 9/24 AMPS ) so every cycle I am dosing 15 minutes earlier to get him back to 6AM and 6PM. Soon, I will have his feeding time to close to the shooting time and I am just not sure how to coordinate it. Sigh.
 
So you are dosing at the regular time, it's just that his feeding schedule is off? I am not getting it. Can you give me an example of a feeding time and shot time?
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
So you are dosing at the regular time, it's just that his feeding schedule is off? I am not getting it. Can you give me an example of a feeding time and shot time?
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Sure, it's his shot times that are off from his normal feeding time was 6am and 6 pm. With the two days (9/21 and 9/24 ) of having to stall 3 times and him not coming up I fed him and then shot him 2 hours later. After 9/24's AMPS number too low (110) I fed him and waiting another 2 hours to test and shoot. At that point he was off his schedule even more. So this morning, feeding time at the zoo is 6AM EST and it was only + 9.5 for his last night's cycle. So I fed him 1/2 his food and then at 8:15 AM EST he got his shot. Tonight, I will dose him 15 mins earlier to try to get closer to his 6 and 6 time. I normally only feed him twice a day. With his shot schedule being delayed, I am breaking up his meals in 1/2 so that when he gets a shot, he will get some food too. Or maybe I don't need to feed him again at the shot time?
 
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