GA Dear Shelley, now at rest.

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I agree with Elizabeth. Shelley's numbers are looking very good...lots of those lovely blues and some safer greens showing up. Contrary to what your vet said the sliding scale you are using seems to be working nicely with Shelley. WTG!!
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Anthony Morgan said:
I did get some of the syringes with the 0.5 increments but still getting use to them. 0.25u seems even less on these, I did wonder if I had actually injected any. I'm sure I will get use to them though.
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Anthony, are you using U40 syringes? With doses this small you might want to consider using U100 syringes with a conversion chart. ...In a U100 syringe .2 of a unit of Caninsulin for example, would measure to the .5 line, so, much easier to measure... Here's the link to the conversion chart so you can see how it works:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm

If you'd like some to play with I'll gladly send you some of Berties. I could pop them in the post on Monday. Just PM me your address if you'd like some.
.
 
Hi Elizabeth and Mary Ann,
Thank you for looking in. Today the amps was 13.4 and at +5 6.2. I just did the pmps and that was 9.8.
Although the numbers are looking good, Shelley has been very quiet today, sleeping most if the time. She has been eating when she wakes up.
At this low pre shot number, I am thinking I should skip the shot. Maybe test again later.
Elizabeth, thank you for your offer, that is extremely kind of you but I wouldn't want to put you to any inconvenience.
I am still using the U40 needles but I have managed to get those with the 0.5 increments, so that is easier to estimate.
Just hoping Shelley brightens up a little at the moment.
Thanks again!
 
I wouldn't worry too much that Shelley is sleeping a lot, Anthony - this is after all what cats do, and as they age they may sleep even more. It has been quite warm too,which can make cats sleepy. You mentioned earlier that you'd noticed she was drinking less - that's a good sign - and she is eating in between sleeps, so that's good too. If she showed no interest in food that might be more worrying, but it sounds as if she is being a fairly normal "mature" cat. If you notice signs of pain, discomfort or distress, that again could be cause for concern, but I don't think you're saying that's the case so try not to worry for now.
 
That is a lower preshot and I can see why you would be nervous shooting it. It is hard to say, since your spreadsheet is not up to date right now and 4 or 5 days of data can make a difference in advice.
 
Yong said:
Have you ever done the stalling technique, Anthony? Withhold feeding, wait 20 minutes and re-test?
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Hi Yong,
Yes, I have heard about that but on this occasion Shelley did eat a little. I will test again in a couple of hours.
Thank you!
 
Diana&Tom said:
I wouldn't worry too much that Shelley is sleeping a lot, Anthony - this is after all what cats do, and as they age they may sleep even more. It has been quite warm too,which can make cats sleepy.
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Anthony Morgan said:
Although the numbers are looking good, Shelley has been very quiet today, sleeping most if the time. She has been eating when she wakes up.
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Anthony, I agree with Diana. ....I have 5 cats aged between 2 and 19, and all of them have been knocked out today (in the UK) by the heat and humidity. They're only just beginning to wake up now that things are cooling down. So don't worry too much on that score. :bighug:
....My two oldies have been so knocked out today that I've actually shaken them a bit to wake them up just to check that they're OK!

Anthony Morgan said:
Elizabeth, thank you for your offer, that is extremely kind of you but I wouldn't want to put you to any inconvenience.
I am still using the U40 needles but I have managed to get those with the 0.5 increments, so that is easier to estimate.
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As long as you're OK, Anthony. That's the important thing. You need to be comfortable with what you're doing. And, to be honest, not everyone is comfortable with using different syringes and doing the conversion. And that is absolutely understandable.
(But if you change your mind it honestly wouldn't be any inconvenience at all to post you some U100's: On the contrary, it would be my pleasure. :cat: )
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
That is a lower preshot and I can see why you would be nervous shooting it. It is hard to say, since your spreadsheet is not up to date right now and 4 or 5 days of data can make a difference in advice.
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Hi Mary Ann,
My laptop is so slow it puts me off using it, the spread sheet won't update from my tablet. I will do it now, probably take about half an hour.
Thank you!
 
Anthony Morgan said:
Hi Mary Ann,
My laptop is so slow it puts me off using it, the spread sheet won't update from my tablet. I will do it now, probably take about half an hour.
Thank you!
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Sorry the updates are such a problem. Slow computers are enough to test anyone's patience. You are ultimately the one who makes the final dosing decision and as Yong said. if you skip the shot it is all useful data. :bighug: :bighug:
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Anthony, I agree with Diana. ....I have 5 cats aged between 2 and 19, and all of them have been knocked out today (in the UK) by the heat and humidity. They're only just beginning to wake up now that things are cooling down. So don't worry too much on that score. :bighug:
....My two oldies have been so knocked out today that I've actually shaken them a bit to wake them up just to check that they're OK!


As long as you're OK, Anthony. That's the important thing. You need to be comfortable with what you're doing. And, to be honest, not everyone is comfortable with using different syringes and doing the conversion. And that is absolutely understandable.
(But if you change your mind it honestly wouldn't be any inconvenience at all to post you some U100's: On the contrary, it would be my pleasure. :cat: )
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Diana and Elizabeth,
Thank you very much for your reassurance!
Shelley has had quiet days before, so hopefully she will brighten up again. There are no other signs of anything wrong, so fingers crossed.
Your kind support is much appreciated!
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
Sorry the updates are such a problem. Slow computers are enough to test anyone's patience. You are ultimately the one who makes the final dosing decision and as Yong said. if you skip the shot it is all useful data. :bighug: :bighug:
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Thank you Mary Ann,
My laptop is only a couple of years old but they always seem OK at first and then get slower and slower. Perhaps I need to update it. Anyway, I have got the spreadsheet up to date now.
I had to miss the midday tests a few times this week due to commitments unfortunately.
 
Anthony Morgan said:
Thank you Mary Ann,
My laptop is only a couple of years old but they always seem OK at first and then get slower and slower. Perhaps I need to update it. Anyway, I have got the spreadsheet up to date now.
I had to miss the midday tests a few times this week due to commitments unfortunately.
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Anthony, if your laptop is only a couple of years old you shouldn't have to buy a new one. The speed issue may just be that you need to delete/uninstall some things on your hard drive. I'm far from expert myself but a friend of mine recently called in someone who knows about these things to look at his laptop... gave it a thorough check-up, spring clean, etc... two hours later it was much better at a cost of £100 which is cheaper than a new laptop. So that would be my suggestion, if it's bugging you... it depends how much you use / rely on your computer of course.
 
Diana&Tom said:
Anthony, if your laptop is only a couple of years old you shouldn't have to buy a new one. The speed issue may just be that you need to delete/uninstall some things on your hard drive. I'm far from expert myself but a friend of mine recently called in someone who knows about these things to look at his laptop... gave it a thorough check-up, spring clean, etc... two hours later it was much better at a cost of £100 which is cheaper than a new laptop. So that would be my suggestion, if it's bugging you... it depends how much you use / rely on your computer of course.
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Hi Diana,
Thanks for that suggestion. It's certainly something to consider, there are a few computer shops nearby. I will look into it.
I did use it a lot more before I got a tablet. It is only an Amazon Fire. It's very quick in comparison but some things it won't seem to do.
Shelley is a little brighter today. Went in the garden briefly. Only picking at food, I think she may be bored with the menu!
I didn't inject last night. Amps was 10.9 so I injected 0.25u.
I don't know about you but I seem to waste more cat food than they eat. Shelley always wants fresh and then only eats a little and the others never clean their plates. Even the younger cats leave all the solid pieces. Of course it could be that I feed them too often!
 
Anthony Morgan said:
Hi Diana,
Thanks for that suggestion. It's certainly something to consider, there are a few computer shops nearby. I will look into it.
I did use it a lot more before I got a tablet. It is only an Amazon Fire. It's very quick in comparison but some things it won't seem to do.
Shelley is a little brighter today. Went in the garden briefly. Only picking at food, I think she may be bored with the menu!
I didn't inject last night. Amps was 10.9 so I injected 0.25u.
I don't know about you but I seem to waste more cat food than they eat. Shelley always wants fresh and then only eats a little and the others never clean their plates. Even the younger cats leave all the solid pieces. Of course it could be that I feed them too often!
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Maybe the answer is to just put a small amount of cat food in the bowls, Anthony - seal the rest of the pouches and keep them in the fridge until the next mealtime. Some cats just don't have big appetites and a big bowl of food may be off-putting, and/or yes, you might be feeding them too often! I always put more food down for my cat when I go out even for a couple of hours, thinking she might get peckish, but nine out of ten times she doesn't touch it. It's only when her bowl is actually empty that she seems to want something it! Maybe if you're giving them all treats as well, that reduces the hunger pangs...
:-)
 
Diana&Tom said:
Maybe the answer is to just put a small amount of cat food in the bowls, Anthony - seal the rest of the pouches and keep them in the fridge until the next mealtime. Some cats just don't have big appetites and a big bowl of food may be off-putting, and/or yes, you might be feeding them too often! I always put more food down for my cat when I go out even for a couple of hours, thinking she might get peckish, but nine out of ten times she doesn't touch it. It's only when her bowl is actually empty that she seems to want something it! Maybe if you're giving them all treats as well, that reduces the hunger pangs...
:)
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I don't often give them treats as such apart from fresh chicken occasionally. I have tried putting it in the fridge and then warming it up slightly but they don't seem so keen on it.
Charlie, Jack and Eddie are all good weights shall I say, so maybe I just need to feed them less often!
I just checked Shelley's BG at +4 "= 5.2.
A bit lower than I am comfortable with.
Thanks Diana!
 
Yong said:
That is a very nice reading, it seems Shelly might still nadir between +4 and +5 :D
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Hi Yong,
I encouraged Shelley to eat at +4 and at +5 she was up to 7.2.
So it seems like 0.25u is OK in this range.
By the way, was it you that recommended the Tesco Feline Cuisine range? I did buy some and Shelley liked it and although it seemed a richer food, I understand the carb content is OK?
With thanks!
 
Anthony Morgan said:
Hi Yong,
I encouraged Shelley to eat at +4 and at +5 she was up to 7.2.
So it seems like 0.25u is OK in this range.
By the way, was it you that recommended the Tesco Feline Cuisine range? I did buy some and Shelley liked it and although it seemed a richer food, I understand the carb content is OK?
With thanks!
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Yes it was Matthew who suggested Feline Cuisine - I've seen it in Sainsburys as well as Tesco.
 
Last night Shelley's pre shot was 8.6, so I didn't inject.
This morning's pre shot 10.3.
Trying to decide whether to give a small dose or none again?
Thank you!
 
Anthony Morgan said:
Last night Shelley's pre shot was 8.6, so I didn't inject.
This morning's pre shot 10.3.
Trying to decide whether to give a small dose or none again?
Thank you!
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Anthony, that .20 seemed to work well for Shelley yesterday. Or you could try a smidge less than the .2....? Are you going to be around to monitor if you give the shot? You need to be comfortable with whatever you decide to do...
Alternatively, you could try giving a small amount of low carb food and waiting to see if her blood glucose goes up or down as a result of that. (You might need to wait an hour or more though to see the effect of that, and that might throw your schedule out..?)

This is looking very good for Shelley. She's producing insulin of her own. I'm guessing you may need to keep reducing the dose.... :cat:
.
 
Elizabeth, thank you very much for replying!
I will be around this morning, so I can monitor. I will test again a little later and see which way things are going as you suggest.
Thanks again!
 
Diana,
Thank you! She is eating etc. But still seems less bright than usual. Perhaps she needs to adjust to lower numbers?
 
Anthony, what do you mean exactly by "less bright that usual"? You've mentioned that a few times. She is eating normally which should be a good sign, and as we've said, cats - particularly older cats - do sleep more in warmer weather, and are often not as playful as they were in their younger years. But you're her owner of course and a very committed and observant one - have you seen a significant difference in her recently or she looking uncomfortable in a specific way? It may be, yes, she's getting used to better BG numbers, but if you're concerned it migjt be best to ask the vet. When did Shelley last have a check-up? I don't think it was that long ago but if you've noticed a change in her since then you might need to pop back with her. The vet would also ask you of course what signs you've noticed.
 
Diana,
Well I just retested and got 13.2, so I feel more comfortable to inject 0.25u.
When Shelley was on a higher dose, when her BG fell she seemed to become more active, sitting in the garden, being more vocal and demanding food.
The last few days she has just been quieter. Sleeping a lot, eating but not with the usual enthusiasm. Not going in the garden and not very vocal.
As you know I do keep a close eye on her, so if I am concerned I will see the vet. She had a urine analysis about a month ago but no blood test since February.
 
My best guess would be the warm weather making Shelley a bit lethargic, Anthony - if you've spotted no other symptoms she is probably fine. Demanding food is s sign of an unregulated diabetic cat so the fact that she is now wanting less food is actually a positive... and normal, really, I would say, for a cat her age.
I do understand your worry, we all take our kitties' health very seriously here, so I think I'd just make a note of how she's doing during this month and take her to the vet for blood tests in August - senior cats should have a health check twice a year anyway so she's on schedule for that.
 
Anthony

Just checking in and how wonderful to see Shelley's numbers staying in a much tighter range. As Elizabeth said it appears that Shelley's pancreas is working at producing some insulin on its own. Kitties have the amazing ability to heal their pancreas and the longer she stays in a good range the better the chances are for further healing. I know it is difficult for you to update your spreadsheet, but perhaps you could post the newer numbers all together with the updated readings on your daily post, just in case you need advice during the cycle and people who are following you are not available at that moment.

PMPS 8.6 No shot
AMBG 10.3 Stalled
AMPS ? hours after first test 13.2 0.25 unit


When you got the second reading of 13.2 had you already fed Shelley? If you had fed her after the first test, that would bring the numbers up.

Warmer weather can cause the appetite to be decreased. Also as Shelley's numbers start to remain in a good range you should find that her demands for food decrease since her body is using the food she eats properly and she does not have the usual hunger that FD kitties in higher numbers will have. When my Tuxie's numbers were in good numbers for a period of time I would notice a much decreased appetite and he was a real food beggar. However as Diana said if you start to notice that she is not eating properly for her size or weight or you notice any other signs that are out of the ordinary, then a vet visit for full blood work and urinalysis may be in order.

This is very exciting to see Shelley responding positively and I will keep my fingers crossed that this continues. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
When you got the second reading of 13.2 had you already fed Shelley? If you had fed her after the first test, that would bring the numbers up.
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Sorry, I might have caused confusion...
I'd suggested to Anthony that he could try feeding a little bit of low carb to Shelley to see whether her BG went up or down as a result of that, to see if the pancreas would produce insulin in response to the food, and drop the BG on it's own. (..I often have to do that with Bertie to see whether I really do need to give him insulin...)
This is, of course, distinct from 'stalling' where you wait, without feeding, to see if the numbers come up on their own.

Apologies for any confusion caused... :oops:
.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
Anthony

Just checking in and how wonderful to see Shelley's numbers staying in a much tighter range. As Elizabeth said it appears that Shelley's pancreas is working at producing some insulin on its own. Kitties have the amazing ability to heal their pancreas and the longer she stays in a good range the better the chances are for further healing. I know it is difficult for you to update your spreadsheet, but perhaps you could post the newer numbers all together with the updated readings on your daily post, just in case you need advice during the cycle and people who are following you are not available at that moment.

PMPS 8.6 No shot
AMBG 10.3 Stalled
AMPS ? hours after first test 13.2 0.25 unit


When you got the second reading of 13.2 had you already fed Shelley? If you had fed her after the first test, that would bring the numbers up.

Warmer weather can cause the appetite to be decreased. Also as Shelley's numbers start to remain in a good range you should find that her demands for food decrease since her body is using the food she eats properly and she does not have the usual hunger that FD kitties in higher numbers will have. When my Tuxie's numbers were in good numbers for a period of time I would notice a much decreased appetite and he was a real food beggar. However as Diana said if you start to notice that she is not eating properly for her size or weight or you notice any other signs that are out of the ordinary, then a vet visit for full blood work and urinalysis may be in order.

This is very exciting to see Shelley responding positively and I will keep my fingers crossed that this continues. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Hello Mary Ann,
Thank you for looking in. Sorry for the delay in replying but I had a visitor and then had to go out.
I did feed Shelley after the 10.3 but did wait almost 2 hours before the second test. I have just updated my spreadsheet, the pmps was 10.8 so I have injected what I guesstimate as 0.2u.
I would say Shelley has been a little brighter today, the weather has been a bit fresher here. I am keeping a close eye on her and would certainly see the vet if I thought there was a concern.
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Sorry, I might have caused confusion...
I'd suggested to Anthony that he could try feeding a little bit of low carb to Shelley to see whether her BG went up or down as a result of that, to see if the pancreas would produce insulin in response to the food, and drop the BG on it's own. (..I often have to do that with Bertie to see whether I really do need to give him insulin...)
This is, of course, distinct from 'stalling' where you wait, without feeding, to see if the numbers come up on their own.

Apologies for any confusion caused... :oops:
.
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No problem Diana. Even though Shelley might not eat that much of it, she is so used to getting food on demand I find it very hard to deny her.
 
Anthony Morgan said:
Hello Mary Ann,
Thank you for looking in. Sorry for the delay in replying but I had a visitor and then had to go out.
I did feed Shelley after the 10.3 but did wait almost 2 hours before the second test. I have just updated my spreadsheet, the pmps was 10.8 so I have injected what I guesstimate as 0.2u.
I would say Shelley has been a little brighter today, the weather has been a bit fresher here. I am keeping a close eye on her and would certainly see the vet if I thought there was a concern.
Click to expand...


Thank you for the information Anthony.

What a lovely run of blues today!!
113.gif
This lower dose on a sliding scale seems to be working very well for Shelley. It is quite amazing to see a rather flat cycle with Caninsulin, but they are pretty good numbers, with no big drops or rises. Glad to hear that she seems more herself today. Kitties just like people can have a bit of an off day, and I know you will keep a close eye on Shelley to make sure she is okay. Your dedication is very obvious. :bighug::bighug:
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
Thank you for the information Anthony.

What a lovely run of blues today!!
113.gif
This lower dose on a sliding scale seems to be working very well for Shelley. It is quite amazing to see a rather flat cycle with Caninsulin, but they are pretty good numbers, with no big drops or rises. Glad to hear that she seems more herself today. Kitties just like people can have a bit of an off day, and I know you will keep a close eye on Shelley to make sure she is okay. Your dedication is very obvious. :bighug::bighug:
Click to expand...

Thank you Mary Ann, I do try to do the best I can for Shelley but as we all know making the best decision is not that easy. Especially when there is so so little margin for error at these low numbers.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
Thank you for the information Anthony.

What a lovely run of blues today!!
113.gif
This lower dose on a sliding scale seems to be working very well for Shelley. It is quite amazing to see a rather flat cycle with Caninsulin, but they are pretty good numbers, with no big drops or rises. Glad to hear that she seems more herself today. Kitties just like people can have a bit of an off day, and I know you will keep a close eye on Shelley to make sure she is okay. Your dedication is very obvious. :bighug::bighug:
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Yes, all looking very good, Anthony, you're doing such a good job and we all know it's not always easy! Other newish members here such as @Monica Lewis should be encouraged by what you've achieved, too.
 
Diana&Tom said:
Yes, all looking very good, Anthony, you're doing such a good job and we all know it's not always easy! Other newish members here such as @Monica Lewis should be encouraged by what you've achieved, too.
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Thanks for tagging Diana..
Hi Anthony , yes I'm most definitely encouraged by Shelley's brilliant response. I'm really pleased for you guys, it's such an amazing achievement!
I also very much admire your dedication and determination Anthony.
You've come so far in the past few months by constantly wanting to learn so much, listening to good advice and eventually being able to make decisions by yourself, your hard work and loving care is definitely paying off.
I'm rooting for you, may those beautiful blues/greens long continue! :)
 
Hi Monica,
Thank you, it's very kind of you to say so. I have just tried to do what I can to keep Shelley safe whilst trying to control her diabetes.
I was criticised by my vet for dosing too conservatively and I think he may have been right in the first few months after the hypo. The more recent drop into lower numbers actually came after I started trying to give 1.0u as advised by the vet but then found I dare not continue with that as I didn't think it was safe.
So I have just really dosed according to the pre shot numbers and Shelley's blood glucose numbers have gradually fallen.
Thank you again for your kind words and encouragement!
 
Anthony Morgan said:
Hi Monica,
Thank you, it's very kind of you to say so. I have just tried to do what I can to keep Shelley safe whilst trying to control her diabetes.
I was criticised by my vet for dosing too conservatively and I think he may have been right in the first few months after the hypo. The more recent drop into lower numbers actually came after I started trying to give 1.0u as advised by the vet but then found I dare not continue with that as I didn't think it was safe.
So I have just really dosed according to the pre shot numbers and Shelley's blood glucose numbers have gradually fallen.
Thank you again for your kind words and encouragement!
Click to expand...
Well you seem to be making the right decisions Anthony..:cat:
 
Anthony Morgan said:
Hi Monica,
Thank you, it's very kind of you to say so. I have just tried to do what I can to keep Shelley safe whilst trying to control her diabetes.
I was criticised by my vet for dosing too conservatively and I think he may have been right in the first few months after the hypo. The more recent drop into lower numbers actually came after I started trying to give 1.0u as advised by the vet but then found I dare not continue with that as I didn't think it was safe.
So I have just really dosed according to the pre shot numbers and Shelley's blood glucose numbers have gradually fallen.
Thank you again for your kind words and encouragement!
Click to expand...

This is surely a classic case of when "dosing according to pre shot numbers and blood glucose numbers have gradually fallen" makes complete sense. Vets don't like the "inconsistency" of a sliding scale, but they don't seem to consider the logic of it. You give the kitty as much or as little insulin as is warranted... what's wrong with that? If you're starving you naturally eat more than if you're only peckish. If the garden is parched during a heatwave you give it a good watering that wouldn't be needed after a torrential rainstorm. OK these things might not quite equate to BG and insulin, but to my little mind the basic principle is the same. I try not to give specific dosing advice here or make too strong a suggestion because owners should come to decisions themselves using information they have learned and observing their own cat... but to me, a sliding scale or dosing according to pre shot numbers makes perfect sense. Well done again, Anthony!
 
Shelley has started with a cold, she had been sneezing during the day.
Also her BG has gone up:
Amps 15.7 0.25u injected
+4. 17.1
Pmps 16.3

I did get her some Feline Cuisine food today as I thought it might be more tasty and encourage eating. So I don't know if it is this that has increased her BG or the cold?
 
Sorry to hear Shelley isn't feeling great, Anthony. A cold, or an upper respiratory tract infection as vets would call it, can certainly raise BGs. I think @Elizabeth and Bertie looked at the carb content of Feline Cuisine recently and found it was ok... I'll leave it to her to answer.

It's a shame to now have some higher numbers to deal with just when Shelley was doing so well, but if you dose accordingly it may help to get BGs down. If Shelley's symptoms persist or get worse you might want to get the vet's opinion on antibiotics for her.

Hope things look up soon.
 
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