Day 3 Nala...baseline 198

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Tiffany Smith

Tiffany Smith

Member Since 2020
Good morning everyone. So its day 3 since joining and we are now on day 2 of at home testing. I had skipped Nalas injection last night bc she was just under the threshold of 200, checked at the one and two hour mark as you will be able to see on her spreadsheet. Numbers went up a hair, then back down so we called it a night. Several of us were interested in seeing what her baseline would be this morning...198! Thats good right?? Im gonna stick with blue is good =) Im going to do the same as I did last night, skip her injection, test at 1 and 2 hours and then every 2 hours after to get a full curve thru the day. If there is an thing I am missing or doing wrong please let me know.
 
JaxBenji said:
morning :cat: I can't advise to dosing but I can't open your SS - you may need to change the sharing settings to "anyone with link". Those that do give advice will want to see the numbers in the SS :bighug:
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Ok, I think I figured that part out...did it work? Can you open the SS now? (Thanks so much for letting me know it wasn't working :)
 
Tiffany Smith said:
Ok, I think I figured that part out...did it work? Can you open the SS now? (Thanks so much for letting me know it wasn't working :)
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Yes! Ss is working. So I see you are in the high 100's. You gave no shots the last three cycles? Normal on a human meter is 50-120, so I think he needs a little insulin support. Can you do 1 u over 150 and see what happens.

You took other readings that were in the 200's that I don't see on here. Can you add the earlier readings and doses?
 
JanetNJ said:
Yes! Ss is working. So I see you are in the high 100's. You gave no shots the last three cycles? Normal on a human meter is 50-120, so I think he needs a little insulin support. Can you do 1 u over 150 and see what happens.

You took other readings that were in the 200's that I don't see on here. Can you add the earlier readings and doses?
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Hi Janet. So her normal dose is 2 units as prescribed by the vet. So I should do half of that now and then do another BG in how long?
 
Tiffany Smith said:
Hi Janet. So her normal dose is 2 units as prescribed by the vet. So I should do half of that now and then do another BG in how long?
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I wouldn't do 2 units when it's under 200 without more data. ProZinc usually peeks 5-7 hours after the shot, so I might check at 3-4 hours after the shot just to make sure she isn't heading too low.
 
1 unit is the recommended starting dose. I think starting at 2 might be a little bit much unless testing tells you otherwise. We usually suggest raising doses by no more than 0.25-0.5 units at a time.
 
JanetNJ said:
I wouldn't do 2 units when it's under 200 without more data. ProZinc usually peeks 5-7 hours after the shot, so I might check at 3-4 hours after the shot just to make sure she isn't heading too low.
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Ok, so here is what Im going to do. I was going to do a BG check here in about 15 mins anyway. Ill add that to her SS, and if its still staying around this mark I will give her 1 unit then check her 3 hours past that. I am sorry Janet that I am just now seeing your other question about her 200+ readings. I will go in and add them to the SS, these were readings taken by the vet the day of her scheduled curve. She was also started on canned food (by my insisting) by the vet that day as well. The day before that and the whole month prior she was on script dry. Ive had her on primarily canned since getting her from the vet and she has nibbled some kibble here and there but is beginning to show no interest in it which I am happy about.
 
Tiffany Smith said:
Ok, so here is what Im going to do. I was going to do a BG check here in about 15 mins anyway. Ill add that to her SS, and if its still staying around this mark I will give her 1 unit then check her 3 hours past that. I am sorry Janet that I am just now seeing your other question about her 200+ readings. I will go in and add them to the SS, these were readings taken by the vet the day of her scheduled curve. She was also started on canned food (by my insisting) by the vet that day as well. The day before that and the whole month prior she was on script dry. Ive had her on primarily canned since getting her from the vet and she has nibbled some kibble here and there but is beginning to show no interest in it which I am happy about.
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I see. Ok so going to the wet food will have an impact on the numbers too. Plus the numbers are usually higher at the vet because they are stressed. Good job changing the food. I have got to say these are awesome numbers for a newly diagnosed cat. I'm willing to bet it won't be long before she's in remission.
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
OK, it's official: Nala is reading these posts!

I don't think I'd give insulin now-- you're 2hrs past your usual shot time anyway, right?
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LOL, right! I think she's tired of being poked, sweet girl is such a trooper though and I think I finally found the sweet spot at the tip of her ear. It barely took a prick to bleed and she didn't flinch this time.

As of right now we are 3 hours past. Ill start checking her every 2 hours from this point then. Im fully on board with what @JanetNJ said earlier. I am aiming for remission. Hopefully all this is a good sign that we are in the early enough stages to where she can be regulated with diet like the specialist thought initially. I haven't felt this encouraged since the day of the diagnosis. I am SO HAPPY I found you guys. Its amazing where research can lead you, as I just stumbled across this group trying to educate myself on the best food.:D
 
Help! 2:30 check and we jumped up to a 216! Should I wait 30 mins and check again? Or give her an injection now...which would move her next possible injection to the early am right?? She did snack about 30 mins ago.
 
Holy cats Im kinda freaking out right now. Im thinking it was her food. All her awesome numbers were on the fancy feast, then I let her finish off her can of Merricks from dinner last night (whither numbers were borderline then).
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
Don't shoot now, she's fine....

Is the Merrick's higher carb?
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ok, whew. It was the beyond she ate thru out the day, not fancy feast. Im looking at the print out I have now. The Merricks Grannys Pot Pie is the flavor and the list says its 6 carbs. The beyond flavor was only 2 carbs.
 
Hmm, well, it's not the carbs in the food causing that little rise, it's probably just her. But she's really not very high at all-- nothing to worry about.

It does mean that she'll likely be getting a shot tonight (unless she pulls another switcheroo!). I do think that 1U probably makes more sense than 2U given her numbers today, but see what others say.
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
Hmm, well, it's not the carbs in the food causing that little rise, it's probably just her. But she's really not very high at all-- nothing to worry about.

It does mean that she'll likely be getting a shot tonight (unless she pulls another switcheroo!). I do think that 1U probably makes more sense than 2U given her numbers today, but see what others say.
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Ok, will do. I check her again at 4:30. Im pulling the Merrick just incase tonight and when she eats again it will be the Beyond. Just incase. And if I see a pattern it may be she needs really really low carb food.
 
Tiffany Smith said:
Help! 2:30 check and we jumped up to a 216! Should I wait 30 mins and check again? Or give her an injection now...which would move her next possible injection to the early am right?? She did snack about 30 mins ago.
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You do know that’s not really a high number, right? Don’t shoot until it’s her normal shot time. No need to test again until then.
 
JanetNJ said:
You do know that’s not really a high number, right? Don’t shoot until it’s her normal shot time. No need to test again until then.
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Im still learning, so no not really sure exactly what is high right now and what is not. Especially when reading that "we don't usually shoot under a 200, but do if its over". I absolutely appreciate everyones patience as I learn and go through this process, but that's just what it is..a learning process. Everyone was a first timer at one time or another. And then I was concerned over how high it went in a short amount of time, so I may have panicked a little.
 
Don't worry, all of your reactions are perfectly normal! We have all been there in the beginning, believe me :bighug: :bighug: :bighug:

The thing about cats is, they can tolerate much higher BG values for much longer than, say, humans. It's not at all uncommon, especially for newly-diagnosed cats, to see numbers in the 400's, 500's, even higher. I don't even want to think what that would feel like for a human :eek:, but with cats, most of the time the damage only comes with numbers like that over long periods.

Normal BG range is roughly 50-120, so the numbers up in the 200's you've seen are definitely diabetic. On the higher end there, they're likely over the renal threshold (varies among cats), where the glucose spills over into the urine, but, again, that's really more of a concern over the long term.

In general we're much more concerned on the lower end. Unlike high numbers, low numbers can be instantly dangerous, even fatal. So the recommendations and advice about shooting are conservative on that end. The 200 cutoff for shooting isn't because the numbers over 200 are dangerous and need insulin, it's because it may not be safe to shoot numbers under 200. As Janet said up above, after you get some data and see how Nala reacts to insulin, you can start to relax that rule and shoot lower numbers, we just don't like to see it done in the very beginning while you're still getting used to everything.

I'm sorry we don't always explain all these things in detail. There's just soooooo much to learn in the beginning, I maybe err on the side of being too brief because I don't want to bury new people in the details, but sometimes that makes things even more mysterious :facepalm:.

Anyway, back to Nala! Even though she climbed back up for a bit, she's spending an awful lot of time in blue numbers for a cat who has skipped several shots :smuggrin:!!! She really is looking very good, I'd say :).
 
Tiffany Smith said:
Im still learning, so no not really sure exactly what is high right now and what is not. Especially when reading that "we don't usually shoot under a 200, but do if its over". I absolutely appreciate everyones patience as I learn and go through this process, but that's just what it is..a learning process. Everyone was a first timer at one time or another. And then I was concerned over how high it went in a short amount of time, so I may have panicked a little.
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My cat didn't even have a number under 300 for the first 2 months... so I'd say your cat is doing great. hahaha
 
So it looks to me like the 2U dose is too high for Nala. Especially since she dropped to that low blue BG of 129 at +4.

I think you should reduce the dose, to 1U max.
With the food change, you are likely to need to drop the dose pretty rapidly.

p.s. I'm not usually on until later in the evening, east coast time. We are getting slammed with a big snow storm tonight into tomorrow.
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
@Tiffany Smith, I see 186 in last night's pre-shot number-- did you shoot? How is Nala doing?
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Good morning, No, I didn't. I did the same as the night before and skipped the dose. I just did her AMPS and it was 204. Putting together everything everyone has talked to me about, would my thought process be correct in one of the two things....(1) Do I go ahead and feed her and give her half a dose, 1u, of her Prozinc, or (2) Do I wait 30 mins, check again, and see where we are there?(it did get a little stressful checking her this morning bc I did it by myself instead of waking one of my kids to help and from what I understand stress can raise BG I just don't know how fast)
 
Deb & Wink said:
So it looks to me like the 2U dose is too high for Nala. Especially since she dropped to that low blue BG of 129 at +4.

I think you should reduce the dose, to 1U max.
With the food change, you are likely to need to drop the dose pretty rapidly.

p.s. I'm not usually on until later in the evening, east coast time. We are getting slammed with a big snow storm tonight into tomorrow.
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Thanks so much for coming on Deb, Im east coast too (South Carolina so our times on will be compatible) but we aren't staring down the barrel of that storm. Please stay safe. As far as dosage, I am fully convinced that 2u is too much as well.
 
JanetNJ said:
My cat didn't even have a number under 300 for the first 2 months... so I'd say your cat is doing great. hahaha
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Lol, thanks...I am def one of those who over thinks things for sure. Which causes me to probably ask the same question 10 different ways so I know that I fully understand the answer..lol. Thanks for all your help so so far, Im so thankful for all who have been keeping watch over us. I have learned more in the past 3 days than I have in the past month from my vet. I know she means well, but Nala isn't her only patient so perhaps she is just looking to keep things as streamline for her as she can. But I want remission, and I will do whatever it takes to get her there ;)
 
Are you going to be around to test today? If so, I think you could try the 1U to see how she does. It seems like she's going to need some insulin, at least for a little while :). Now that you're testing, you'll be able to get a much clearer idea of what a particular dose does for her, and keep her safe while administering insulin.
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
Are you going to be around to test today? If so, I think you could try the 1U to see how she does. It seems like she's going to need some insulin, at least for a little while :). Now that you're testing, you'll be able to get a much clearer idea of what a particular dose does for her, and keep her safe while administering insulin.
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Yep, Ill be around all day. So its injection time anyway, so Ill BG one more time to just cover the first reading and prep a 1u dose. Then test at the 2 hour mark maybe?? How long would you wait to test again?
 
Could you color your last reading?
Consider your spreadsheet as something that has to be filled out, every single column. And spread it out when you can. For example do a +3, +6 and a +10 one day. Next day a +2, +5 and +8. It doesn't take long to figure out when its most important to test. If you're up peeing at night, grab a test. I test mostly out of curiosity :oops: I can't help myself!
 
SashaV said:
Could you color your last reading?
Consider your spreadsheet as something that has to be filled out, every single column. And spread it out when you can. For example do a +3, +6 and a +10 one day. Next day a +2, +5 and +8. It doesn't take long to figure out when its most important to test. If you're up peeing at night, grab a test. I test mostly out of curiosity :oops: I can't help myself!
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Done and gotcha on the spreading out the testing. Think Ill spread it out a little further today, the 3+. I know her little ear has to be sore from our curve yesterday. I can't get her right ear to give me anything and I feel bad poking her over and over trying. So its always the left. My husband gets up at 4:30 am for work. I may just start throwing in a test every now and then when he gets up. She is not so compliant right now with testing or shots, so I always need a second set of hands...as I confirmed with myself this morning when I tried a test on my own...lol:banghead:
 
Tiffany Smith said:
Done and gotcha on the spreading out the testing. Think Ill spread it out a little further today, the 3+. I know her little ear has to be sore from our curve yesterday. I can't get her right ear to give me anything and I feel bad poking her over and over trying. So its always the left. My husband gets up at 4:30 am for work. I may just start throwing in a test every now and then when he gets up. She is not so compliant right now with testing or shots, so I always need a second set of hands...as I confirmed with myself this morning when I tried a test on my own...lol:banghead:
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Aaaw poor ears! Did you try warming it up a bit? Milking it before you poke?
 
3 hour check after 1u of insulin and we have gone from a 193 to an 87. Is this too much too quick? Should I do another check sooner than another 3 hours? She's eating now. And a food question...should I have her food bowl out to where she can graze her canned thru out the day or try to stick to a schedule for now?
 
Tiffany Smith said:
3 hour check after 1u of insulin and we have gone from a 193 to an 87. Is this too much too quick? Should I do another check sooner than another 3 hours? She's eating now. And a food question...should I have her food bowl out to where she can graze her canned thru out the day or try to stick to a schedule for now?
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Witch dosing protocol are you following?
I'll do another check in an hour, if she seems odd in any way do a test sooner.
+3 is to soon for her to reach nadir.
You can't test too much, if you feel worried, take a test.
 
SashaV said:
Witch dosing protocol are you following?
I'll do another check in an hour, if she seems odd in any way do a test sooner.
+3 is to soon for her to reach nadir.
You can't test too much, if you feel worried, take a test.
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Im not quite sure about dosing protocol and the differences in those yet. So here is a run down of what the vet wants me to do..2 units every 12 hours. It was suggested here that that was a very high dose so anything over 150 I should try the 1 unit dose. Today was the first day doing that. I will def test again in an hour and she is in my eyesight now. I have made the kitchen table my desk/workspace so I can be in the main part of the house with her. She just ate really good (canned), no change in behavior.
 
See: PROZINC DOSING METHODS

The usual recommendation is to start with the "start low, go slow" (SLGS) method. According to that, Nala has earned a 0.25U reduction by going under 90! Just like Deb predicted she would, she's starting to zip down the dosing ladder already.

I second the recommendation to test again next hour. She's just starting the part of the cycle where the insulin will be active, so you want to keep a close eye on her. I'd also make sure you have all your carb-y supplies (gravy foods, honey/syrup/karo) at the ready, in case she dips below 50. The low-carb snack now is good, it should help slow her down a bit.

First green! Whoo hoo! :D :D :D
 
Adding: a good-sized snack under her belt is a good thing right now, as I said above, but one thing to keep in mind is that, if she starts to go low later on, you're going to want to keep her willing to eat whatever carb-loaded snacks you are using to bring her up again. So, the snack now is good, but don't let her over-stuff herself, just in case.
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
Oh, sorry! I meant, "a 0.25U reduction, down to 0.75U." On Prozinc, when a reduction is earned like this, you always take it from that day's dose.

The 1.0U was correct this morning, but now Nala is telling you nope, still too much, so whenever you give the next shot, it'll have to be lower.
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Gotcha! Thanks!
 
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