Danielle and Baby

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Deb & Wink

Deb & Wink

Member Since 2013
Danielle & Baby said:
Hello my name is Danielle between me and my parents we have 6 cats recently our eldest, Baby was diagnosed with diabetes. She is a 13 yr old calico and had recently received allergy shots which we are contributing to her diagnosis of diabetes. We took her to the vet about a month ago, her first visit her BG was in the 500's she spent the night and received 2units of insulin (lantus) when we brought her home the next day they told us her BG was in the 200's and we were instructed to give her 2 units in the AM and 2units in the PM a week later she was still in the 500's so they increased her to 3units twice a day and instructed us to come back in a week to have her tested again. The next week she was at BG-517 which was slightly lower than the week before so they increased her again to 4units in the Am & 3 units in the PM. Another 2 weeks later (today) her BG was 53 which they said is low but told me told keep her on the 4 & 3 units. As I was talking to the vet tech I met Jamie & Jupiter. We had a nice talk and she told me about this site. She was a little concerned with the instructions I was given so she sent me the link to your site for me to post and chat with you all :-D We are just really concerned now that her sugar is low we don't want to keep giving her the 4 & 3 units a day for fear of her going into diabetic shock. When I met Jamie & Jupiter she had a RelinOn meter in her car she showed me how to use it and gave it to me so when I got home I tested Baby again just to see what her BG level was and i got a reading of BG-37 so I gave her a little maple syrup waited 45 minutes and her BG was down again to 27 this time, so I gave her some more syrup but I am concerned! After her diagnosis we also changed her food we now give all the cats Merritts(?) We got it at Petco. Its all natural with no grains or carbs! Any suggestions or help are greatly appreciated as we do not want anything to happen to our Baby!
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ETA: Split out from Tooloo's post.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Hi Danielle, and welcome to the FDMB.

Jamie told me you might be posting so I've been keeping my eye out for you.

How long ago was that 27? More than 30 minutes ago? If so, please test again as soon as you can.

Please give more syrup, smear some on Baby's gums and then give her a couple of drops of syrup mixed into a teaspoon of the Merricks food you have. We need to get those numbers up.

I'm very concerned your cat may be going too low into hypoglycemia.

ETA: I strongly suggest that you call your vet's emergency number.
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You know a PM has been read if it goes from your Outbox to your Sent folder.

Wendy, I agree, she needs to go to the vet. I made that strong suggestion for her to do that. Hoping that is where she is now.
 
i called her and no answer. texted her and said she should call the vet ASAP cause 27 is dangerously low. also emailed her
 
Danielle asked me this in a PM.
Thank you all for your concern and advise I just tested her again and got BG-44 so I just gave her some more syrup. She is due to get her insulin 3units at 10pm what should I do?
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You are in the eastern time zone, so your 10Pm is about 90m minutes away. I do not think Baby will be high enough to give any insulin.

How many test strips do you have left? Not sure how many Jamie gave you and how many you have used.

My strong opinion, is that Baby should get NO insulin tonight.
 
Just retested her and got a read of BG-44 so we gave her some more syrup...We are suppose to give her 3 units at 10pm what should I do?
 
You are in the eastern time zone, so your 10Pm is about 75 minutes away. I do not think Baby will be high enough to give any insulin.

My strong opinion, is that Baby should get NO insulin tonight.

We need to keep bringing those numbers up. Do you have any high carb food like Fancy Feast gravy lovers?
 
You can reuse the needle thingies - which are called lancets - while it's not ideal - because they dull with each use, if you don't have anymore, then reuse what you have until someone can go the store and buy more.

And DO NOT give her insulin tonight - DO NOT GIVE INSULIN
 
She is much too low and giving 3 or even 4 units is way too much just now.

Let's get her out of this crisis and then we will go over everything with you to help you better understand the how's, why's and what to do's........ok
 
Thank You all so much I was blessed today when I met Jamie at the Vet...I am very thankful for you all because I woulda never known any different from what the vet told me I would of ended up giving her the insulin and probably killing her toni8ght...So NO INSULIN!!!! I am going ton test her here again in about 7 minutes and I will let you all know her BG level. I just took a video of her on my cell phone playing with a laser pointer is there anyway I can post it on here also, how do i put up pictures?
 
I have got to take care of Jupiter. He keeps pulling the sock off of his foot. Hes meowing so I think he may have hurt his foot. I will be back in a few minutes to check in with you.

Please post a reply and let us know when you test and what number she is at.
 
ok, while it is quite a bit since the last shot, the thing with lantus overdoses is that they can last for a very long time, longer than the usual 12 hour cycle and in all honesty, your kitty has likely been overdosed for a bit now sooooooooooooooooo, we need to get kitty up above 40-50 and to where she'll stay there on her own so yes, a bit more syrup or higher carb food and testing until she gets there

no insulin tonight of course you know now. we need to let her body clear some of this out of her system. you will undoubtedly see higher than pleasant numbers tomorrow but that is to be expected with the bounce she's going to get from tonight. we ride it out and make sure to not overrespond and give too much insulin again and then we go on

don't worry, you're in good hands here on fdmb :-)
 
i think that's ok. i have always done just a little at a time myself when i've needed to use it. too much can make them sick sometimes so i prefer to do a little and if need be, a little more. the glucose meter is your best friend in this illness and it will guide you as to your next steps

by chance what kind of wet kitty food do you have in the house? anything sliced, diced, chunked, or fileted? in gravy preferably. i ask because i'm wondering if you have any higher carb food and if so, then she can have a little bit of it too to help get her BG (blood glucose) up

eta: by the way, exercise lowers blood glucose so don't let her play too too much right now k. don't need her to self hypo either :-)
 
Danielle I am so glad I met you at the vet today and overheard the conversation with the vet tech telling you to continue that high dose with those low numbers and not test (they said to bring her back in 2 weeks) and I just thought that was crazy. I am so glad I stopped to talk to you. I think it might have saved your cats life tonight.

Maybe we were meant to run into each other today!

I promise you, these people here will guide you in the right direction. Please dont hesitate to ask questions.
 
Great job Jamie. you did indeed save this cats life. you should feel very proud of yourself.
you paid it forward big time.
hugs to you my friend
and Jupe.... PLEASE keep that sock on ... damn it boy!!! :)
 
You should keep Baby quiet so she doesn't burn any more blood sugar than necessary (no laser chasing for now). Great job with testing and posting! :-D :-D
Liz, Zener's other mom
ETA: Post the video to YouTube and then the link here. We will love to see Baby when this crisis is over.
 
Thank you all so much I really appreciate everything and all the advice...She will get no Insulin tonight and I will check her BG tomorrow morning and post here and let you all know what her levels are...Im not bad with computers but im not good either lol...I will have to ask my husband bout that Youtube stuff :-D I have been trying to figure out how to put a pic of her up for you all to see but i can't figure it out angry(2)_cat
 
Did you get another test? We need one now.

Another test and more food, 1 teaspoon with more syrup, a drop or two.

We need to see her in the 80-100 range before she will be safe.
 
much safer number thank goodness. anything below 40 can go bad in a moment so we prefer to not see them down there too long.

the higher number could be due to the syrup so test again in 30 minutes and see if she went up more or back down. what we do is get them up quick with syrup and then try to hold them up via their food so if she hasn't had any food for a bit perhaps let her have about a tablespoon or so of her normal food and then get that test in 1/2 an hour
 
Give her some food please too. The syrup wears off really quickly. The low carb food stays around in her system a bit longer. At least a teaspoon of food would be good.
 
I am so glad Jamie met you and talked to you at that clinic. She did save your cat's life. :thumbup to you, Jamie.

Lantus is a depot insulin, and it may take up to 24 hours to drain her depot a bit. I would give her her normal feeding with maybe some added drops of karo mixed in, unless you have some higher carb food like those that say "with Gravy" on the label.

You have come to the right place. We will help you to help your kitty. The home testing tonight is saving your cat's life. I hope that one day you can tell that vet tech and vet what almost happened. But for now, lets concentrate on getting your cat into some safe numbers. The karo will wear off in about 2 hours, so you want to get food into her which will keep her BGs up longer. You may need to set an alarm tonight to get up and feed her and maybe test her some more. I know you skipped the insulin shot, but like I said that Lantus depot is filled to the brim and she is working off that right now.

Welcome Danielle and Baby :YMHUG:
 
is the meow mix wet or dry? and is it gravy based on pate? what kind of treats?

oh yes, we will talk with you all about food and what is best to feed a cat and why.........don't worry, you will soon be indoctrinated! and yes, I guarantee after tonight, you will "drink the kool-aid"! if you don't know what that means, look it up -

it goes back to the 1970's and Jim Jones who headed up a cult and had his followers drink the koolaid laced with poison so they would all kill themselves and they did. of course we just want you to drink it, without poison in it.... :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
The Meow mix was dry but I just went back over to my moms and gave her some wet meow mix its called savory morsels chicken and shrimp in gravy. Hope that was ok to give her?
 
Danielle

It was a miracle that you and Jamie were there at the same time and she reached out to you and a miracle that you LISTENED!! Smart woman!!

I've worked some of these low numbers like this and they can last over 16 hours. When the syrup wears off, numbers can come back down. It's really important that you get some canned cat food in her. The dry food takes a really long time to bring up the BG and can then affect it for three days after so you want to avoid it. Some good ones to try would be:

Fancy Feast
Chicken and Tuna Feast (flaked)
Salmon and Whitefish Feast
Trout Feast
Tuna Feast
Tuna and Mackerel Feast

These are about 8% calories from carbs so they aren't real LC and they aren't HC which will also wear off. Or if you have regular canned food there, tell us what it is and we'll let you know. But she needs to have some food in her, too, to help keep the BG up.

I have to strongly advise you that if her BG comes back down, I think you need to go to the ER. They can put her on a dextrose drip and get the number up. That is safer then fighting low numbers all night long especially if she hasn't been tested much before.

edited to add: I don't have the number of carbs on the wet meow mix.
 
Danielle, You have two choices.

1. Stay up, probably all night testing and giving Baby small amounts of food and syrup to bring her numbers up.

2. Take her to the vet and have them put her on a dextrose (sugar) drip to bring the numbers up.

Marje said to you earlier:
I have to strongly advise you that if her BG comes back down, I think you need to go to the ER. They can put her on a dextrose drip and get the number up. That is safer then fighting low numbers all night long especially if she hasn't been tested much before.
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and
I've worked some of these low numbers like this and they can last over 16 hours. When the syrup wears off, numbers can come back down. It's really important that you get some canned cat food in her.
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She's not coming up much. Rub some syrup on her gums this time. And give her a 1 teaspoon of the wet food.
 
I gave her some wet food the meow mix 1.5 teaspoons. That BG-50 was while she was eating the wet food so My mom is going to watch her for the night and I am going to go in the morning when she leaves for work to keep an eye on her and continue to test her. My mom said she would call me if anything goes wrong or if she starts acting funny.
 
She really needs to be over 100 before you stop testing for the night.

Or take her to the vet.

Those are my 2 recommendations.
 
What time was this mornings shot?
What time was the BG number at the vet?
What time was the 37 BG at home?

Here is some of the information. Times are approximate.
AMPS n/a (not home testing yet) 10 AM 4U Lantus
+5 (3 pm) 53 at vet
+6 (4 pm) 37 after home from vet - gave maple syrup
+6.5 (4:30) 27 - gave maple syrup
+10.5 (8:35 pm) 44
+11 (9:08 pm) 33
+11.25 (9:16 pm) 1/4 ml syrup
+11.75 (9:45 pm) 51
+12 (9:55 pm) 1/4 ml syrup
+12.5 (10:30 pm) 50 1.5t food ( Meow mix canned chicken and shrimp in gravy)
 
she got 4units at 10am and her test was at 3pm at the vet which was the BG-53
I got the BG-37 at about 4pm
I got the BG-27 at about 4:30 pm
and well you had the rest down
:-D
 
We need another test please Danielle.

Because we all live in different time zones, we express the hours as time since the shot. Shot time = 0, 1 hour later = +1, 2 hours later = +2, 13 hours later = +13.

Do you understand?

Based on that, here are today's numbers so far.

AMPS n/a (not home testing yet) 10 AM 4U Lantus
+5 (3 pm) 53 at vet
+6 (4 pm) 37 after home from vet - gave maple syrup
+6.5 (4:30) 27 - gave maple syrup
+10.5 (8:35 pm) 44
+11 (9:08 pm) 33
+11.25 (9:16 pm) 1/4 ml syrup
+11.75 (9:45 pm) 51
+12 (9:55 pm) 1/4 ml syrup
+12.5 (10:30 pm) 50 1.5t food ( Meow mix canned chicken and shrimp in gravy)
 
Danielle, I just really want to tell you that you are doing a great job tonight!!

Gotta just mention this... I showed Danielle how to test.. in the parking lot at the vet.... both of us standing in the rain!.... I quickly tested Jupiter to show her how... did not explain it or anything! I am amazed that she knew how to test just from that, without asking any questions, and just went home and tested her cat herself! She must be a quick learner! (she stayed there and chatted with me for a while in the rain - I am so glad she was willing to do that to help her cat!)

So glad you took the meter and went home and tested on your own. That was the first big step. Second big step, was coming here to ask for help. You did that too. Now you can get your cat on the right track! Thank you Danielle, for taking the time and listening to what I had to say, and taking the advice to come here. I can tell you really care about your cat, just like all of us here, so you will fit in here so nicely :-D Welcome to the FDMB family. :-D
 
Danielle,

Jamie thought that the cat, and your internet connection were not in the same home. Is that true? Is there anyway to get Baby, you, the testing supplies and food in the same location as your internet connection? Even temporarily?
 
Danielle

You got the 50 at about +12. That's a long time in low numbers.

Most cats that are newly diagnosed and on insulin do what we call "bouncing". Usually, they have been at high BGs for some time when they are diagnosed and so their body gets used to the high numbers as normal. When you start giving insulin and numbers come down, the liver panics and releases counterregulatory hormones and glucagon to drive up the BG. I would have expected Baby to bounce by now.

On top of that, Lantus is a depot insulin which allows it to give long duration curves. One shot builds upon the previous and you get a cumulative effect. If you imagine a bucket that you continually add water to; at some time, the bucket is too full and the excess spills over. That's an oversimplification of the action of Lantus but it's enough to demonstrate that when the Lantus "bucket" is full....the excess spills over and numbers come way down.

A higher dose can affect up to six subsequent cycles. So you might see low numbers for another cycle.
 
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