Dainty's Readings are funky

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Renegaderem+Dainty

Renegaderem+Dainty

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We're for right now still on the .8u dose. Last night my mother gave the shot and was unable to collect a pmps. However, I did come home in time to check her +6 which was 347. This morning her amps (.8u) were 344. I just checked her BG +6 and again its another high number showing little change 328. For ease of reading I'll post the like to her SS. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiHOkRPSPdUOdEgwc3lCQWtDbFpzT1RnbXdRYTJENWc. I am just curious as to what is going on. Normally she has a larger drop down between shots but it seems that she's just staying high.
 
I am thinking one of 2 things
not enough insulin, not sure why you reduced from 1 unit to .8.....
or possible fur shots??
Is there a reason you reduced to .8?
 
Unfortunately, it's really hard to figure out what is going on by looking at Dainty's spreadsheet. It could be that the dose is too low, but you can't make that conclusion based on the numbers. Without the AMPS and PMPS tests, I can't tell for sure whether he drops in the middle or not. I realize Mom couldn't test, so please don't take this as "nagging". It just makes it hard to figure out with "holes" in the data. There's no way to know for instance if she was higher or lower than for instance, 347 at PMPS last night, and which direction the BG went from PMPS to that +6. Does that make sense?

When the numbers are flat like today, it can mean the dose needs to be increased. Just based on today's tests, it looks like the .8 did not do much for Dainty.
But, if you look back on the 24th, the +6 was higher than the AMPS on 1u, and that sometimes indicates that the dose is too high (we call that an inverse curve).

Will you be able to test at PMPS tonight? If so, can you post the number before giving insulin? I am leaning towards upping the dose to 1.0, but the number at PMPS will figure into that.

Carl
 
Her numbers do look a little wonky, but looks like you have had some other things going on with Mom there and some food changes. Any chance you can get a curve tomorrow - numbers every 2 hours or so during the day? (Have lots of treats ready. :mrgreen: ) That may tell us a lot about the dose and whether it should be raised or lowered. This sugar dance is really data driven - the more data you have, the better you can see how the insulin is working and what needs to be adjusted.

If you want, you can add the spreadsheet to your signature so it comes up every time you post. Copy the ss url. Go to User Control Panel, then Profile, then edit signature. Paste that long url into the signature and choose submit. You might also add what you are feeding and the insulin you are using in your signature. If you want help in a hurry, that info is always good for people to have.
 
Denise,
I think it might be because the AM cycle on the 24th looked inverse? That's my guess anyway...
Carl
 
Ok, but here is my questions that has been bothering me...
Should we really reduce a dose for one curve that is inverse?
should we base an inverse curve on a couple of days data.
just thinking out loud...
and also from experience..where Shakes looked a little inverese but actually needed more insulin
I know that ECID...
 
I think it is always best to have a couple cycles of numbers before you consider lowering the dose because of an inverse curve or raising the dose because of high numbers. That is ideal although not always possible - luckily ProZinc is forgiving and you can change dosing.

Course you knew I would say that. I do love data and spreadsheets! :mrgreen:
 
Ok, but here is my questions that has been bothering me...
Should we really reduce a dose for one curve that is inverse?
Click to expand...

IMO? No, we shouldn't do anything based on a single curve. Unless a dose is stuck with for several cycles (unless of course we are using a sliding scale), we won't see definite results on how that dose works. I think that because the reasoning for backing off the 1.7 was due to inverse curves, then the same reasoning came into play when the 1u was reduced to .8?

With Dainty, the data is there to show that the earlier 1.7u dose was too high. I think the data is inconclusive on the 1u dose. It doesn't look to me that the .8 is "enough", but again, not enough data to know for sure.

Carl
 
The reason I took her down to .8 was the 24ths numbers. Her amps her 302 and then at +6 she was 372. I figured that maybe she was rebounding again. That night I reduced the dose slightly and got good numbers, I thought oh, okay so 1u was still too high. I think we're getting under the skin. I smell her back after shots because insulin has a very distinct smell; The fur on her back is also very black so any liquid would make it shiny. I'll post the PMPS tonight at her normal testing time of 6:30 so we can find out which to administer (.8 or 1). We hate testing but if that's what will help her it's what's best. Tonight I will attempt a curve, taking the blood sugar every two hours.
 
I thought I was understanding the reasoning right... good. But as I mentioned above, one cycle is just one cycle. There are a huge list of variables that can make a twelve hour cycle look "wonky", so even though it is sometimes hard to do so, it is best to shrug if off as one wonky cycle and try to stick it out. When a pattern keeps repeating, that is when it becomes more obvious that you need to go up or down with the dose.

This is not a huge deal, and you are doing a super job!

Just asking but what is it that you "hate" about testing? Does she not cooperate, or does it take several pokes to get blood, or is it something else? Whatever it is, we have all sorts of tips to make it easier so that you can get to the point where Dainty actually looks forward to it, and it becomes just a routine thing. I only test Bob once a week or every ten days now, but I actually think he misses the testing. He comes running any time I take out the meter case anyway. I miss it too sometimes. When I stopped having to test every day, it was like something was "missing" every day.

Carl
 
I am so sorry! I never even saw your last post until I was re-reading through now. But to answer your question. I think our problems come from two sources. The first being how dratted thin/delicate her ears are. I get afraid that I'm hurting her when she bruises on her ears or when she cries if I go too deep (which is incredibly easy to do). Sometimes you nick the right place that sooo much blood comes out. However; on the other hand, sometimes you poke and poke with no result except that of a sad kitty and red red ears. The second thing I think is adding to our issues is how we first began BG testing. Our vet office recommended using these huge bulky needles, I think they are the ones you give fluids through. You diagonally poke upwards and hold her very still (which she detests doing) all at the same time. They actually did hurt her and she would hide whenever she saw me getting things together. After information from this site, I've long since discontinued that method and switched to lancets in a poking device with a warm rice sock (I've since added the flashlight to our routine and its made it easier to see the veins, slightly increased our success rate). However, now even if there is no needle in the pen she still twists her head or tries to hide her ears by laying them flat against her head. Every test is a trial but I keep telling her that everyday it will become easier still. Massive use of treats are also sweetening the deal. Now when I get the treats out I can get her to focus on that long enough to quickly poke.
 
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