Curve number help

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Kitty mom

Member Since 2014
I skipped Dashers shot last night because he was at 74 right before he was due for his next shot. This morning I decided to do a curve and this is where we're at.
AMPS. 176
+2 182
+4. 131
+6. 64

I'm nervous with this 64 , he's on 2u of Lantus this morning.
 
As long as he stays above 50, you're OK but you're going to want to test again in about 20-30 minutes

2 units is obviously too much, but without a spreadsheet it's hard to know what to advise you. It's important for you to try to get one of those up as soon as you can.

What type of meter do you use??

You can go ahead and give him a teaspoon of regular low carb food now...since he's past +6, the insulin should be wearing off soon, but it's possible that since he's dropping, he could continue to drop, so giving him a snack may help slow him down

Edited to add: It will help if you'll also add some information to your signature line. If you look below my comment, you'll see some of the information that it's nice to have there so we don't always have to ask the same questions over and over again...and when you get your spreadsheet up, the link goes there too
 
I was just posting on your other thread in Health.

How long ago was the 64?

I will copy/paste my response from the other thread, but please answer this question first.
 
here is what I wrote on your Health thread:

Libby and Lucy said:
that's a nice +4, have you done the +6 yet?

It looks like Dasher is responding VERY well to the insulin. I'm glad you're testing today - if he went to 70 (or lower) yesterday and seems to be heading that way again today, even after a skipped shot, I wouldn't be surprised if you find that his dose is still too high.

((((hugs)))) hang in there. It is much more overwhelming to start at a high dose and have to deal with low numbers early on versus starting at a lower dose and easing yourself into things. Even though I had over a year of experience by the time Lucy started cruising down the dosing scale, I remember still feeling like it was a wild ride.

Please review the hypo instructions just in case he hits some lower numbers during this curve.
Click to expand...
 
Libby and Lucy said:
I was just posting on your other thread in Health.

How long ago was the 64?

I will copy/paste my response from the other thread, but please answer this question first.
Click to expand...

50 min ago
 
ok, can you re-test now? Let's see if the number is still dropping.

Do you have any high carb food on hand? Something like Fancy Feast or Friskies with gravy? Or karo syrup? If the number is lower than 64, then you'll want to feed a couple tsp. of that. If it's a lot lower then you might need to break out the syrup.

I'm having internet trouble, but others are watching for you. Please post the number when you get it and someone will help.
 
I'm going to be schooling my vet on this because it my first instinct to follow their advise but no longer, I'm not going to lose Dasher over uneducated advice .
As far as meters I use the Relion micro .
I will get everything done but I've been crazy busy and trying to focus on doing the curve beside all the other stuff going on here.
Yes I'm ready if an emergency starts to happens

Thanks!
 
I would worry about the testing right now. The other stuff can wait until after his numbers start to turn upward.

Post the +7 when you have it, ok? I know a curve is "supposed" to be every 2 hours, but he has been dropping pretty well today so we want to be sure he isn't dropping anymore. Most cats stop dropping at around +6, but not all of them. It's better to prevent the emergency rather than having to respond to one. :smile:
 
Okay that is just below the 50 mark and so you need to be thinking about a little high carb food. I am new to this so don't want to give too much advise in case it is wrong. Have you got higher carb food or are you going to add honey to his normal stuff. Don't give too much at the moment, just 1/2 teaspoon of high carb gravy food or 1/2 teaspoon of low carb and three drops of honey until others advise. You don't want to fill him up at this point but want to get him over the 50

Retest him in twenty and post up

Please can someone else with a lot more knowledge post as I am very nervous giving this sort of critical advice!
 
Robin-S said:
Did it a little early and it's at +6 49.
Click to expand...

Hang on I am a little confused. Earlier you posted that +6 he was 64 so are you meaning +7 he was 49?

You only break open the higher carb food or honey / low carb if he goes below 50
 
sorry, my internet at work was bad. I'm home now so can keep an eye on you.

We always "feed the 40s," so I would give some high carb food with gravy. Since we don't know for sure when Dasher's nadir is, I would rather see you err on the side of caution and give at least a tablespoon and make sure the tablespoon has lots of the gravy part. Then test after 30 minutes. If it has been more than 30 minutes since you got the 49, I would go ahead and test again now.

To those helping - since Robin and Dasher didn't follow the Tight Regulation Protocol on the way up the dosing scale, they can't necessarily follow it on the way down. Be cautious.
 
phlika29 said:
Robin-S said:
Did it a little early and it's at +6 49.
Click to expand...

Hang on I am a little confused. Earlier you posted that +6 he was 64 so are you meaning +8 he was 49?

You only break open the higher carb food or honey / low carb if he goes below 50
Click to expand...
Yes, I'm sorry I was in a little panic, it was +7 reading of 49. I feed him some HC food and will recheck. I'm working on getting my SS right now.
 
out of curiosity, how far away is your emergency vet?

If the next number is lower, that might be the best option. Let's see the number, though.
 
Robin-S said:
phlika29 said:
Robin-S said:
Did it a little early and it's at +6 49.
Click to expand...

Hang on I am a little confused. Earlier you posted that +6 he was 64 so are you meaning +8 he was 49?

You only break open the higher carb food or honey / low carb if he goes below 50
Click to expand...
Yes, I'm sorry I was in a little panic, it was +7 reading of 49. I feed him some HC food and will recheck. I'm working on getting my SS right now.
Click to expand...

Okay. Don't panic you are in safe hands and they won't leave you. Make sure you keep posting up your numbers on this thread as soon as you have them. I personally would just stick to this thread now.

The spreadsheet is useful in the day to day but in this situation post the numbers here. You can amend your title with them too.

But please follow these members advice with regards dosing levels. They really do have the experience you need.

Okay this newbie is signing off. Thankyou Libby.
 
Trying to find the link to the SS , I can't find it for some reason....I need to calm down because I know its here. Just made my google account just need the steps to set it up.
 
If it's been twenty minutes since you feed dasher you should retest and post the results here on this thread. I will find you the link.

What food did you give?

Here is the thread for the spreadsheet but it's more important to get that test first

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50130

How is dasher?
 
yes, please test first. Focus on that one thing for now. The spreadsheet can wait. It has been about an hour since you posted the 49, so I think it is about +8 now. Hopefully the number will be on the rise.

how's Dasher?
Click to expand...
that's a very important question, thanks! How is Dasher?
 
Libby you will be here now won't you. It's late in the uk and whilst I am desperate to help I don't want to say the wrong thing so will leave her in your capable hands.

Robin tonight is a great learning curve for you. But please follow any advice they give about dosing in the future.

Best wishes

Sarah
 
Critter Mom said:
How are you doing, Robin? Have you tested again?
Click to expand...
I'm here and have the graph just waiting on my son to help me get it on here.
I feed him some hc food and he's taking a nap, I'm checking on him and he seems ok, I think he thinks I'm a pain in the rear, should I get another gb now or wait until the +10 ?
 
It's OK to just post the numbers here for the time being, Robin.

It's a good thing to keep an eye on Dasher to make sure he's alert. If you can, check that he's moving around OK. He'll forgive you.
 
Have you tested since the 49 result, Robin? If not, could you test Dasher ASAP please?

Your spreadsheet link's working OK, btw.

When you get the result from the next test, can you post it on the thread first? Sometimes Googledocs is a bit sluggish and it can take several minutes for spreadsheets to refresh.
 
Robin-S said:
He seems absolute fine but keeping on top of it. My SS is up and running.
Click to expand...
I'm going to get real here for a minute, since it doesn't seem that we have your attention yet.

I've been doing this dance for 6 years with 3 different diabetic cats. I would not let a 49 ride for more than 30 minutes for any of my cats, and I *knew* their doses were safe because of the way I worked up to them.

I have also seen (many, many times) cats who have tested in the 20s without having any hypo symptoms whatsoever. With Lantus, symptomatic hypos are not that common, even with low numbers. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean brain damage is not occurring.

I can't make you test your cat, but I can tell you that I would be testing mine. I can tell you that most vets would have probably already had you bring the cat in with a number in the 40s.

I'll also say that regardless of what dosing methodology you are following, 40s means that your cat's dose is too high. If you prefer to get dosing advice from the vet, that's great but please call them before you give 2 units again.

I'll stay with you if you'll stay with me. Ok? If not, then please call your vet and get their advice.
 
Just reduced my dosing from 2 units to 1 too. I'm learning that the vets don't always get it right. So glad of this forum. Robin you can trust the advice. I would personally suggest looking for advice from the "old timers" than us newbies as we can get it wrong.
 
Fair enough, I will go test him right now. Also there will be no shot tonight and after his morning BG I will be reducing it to 1u , do you think that's a safe dose? My syringes don't have any lower markings on them so my next thing is to get different syringes . I will be talking with his vet tomorrow and telling him the plan of action going off your advise. Please never be shy on speaking your mind with me as I know it's coming from the right place and for Dashers own good.
 
Hi Robin,

You've gotten some good advice here. From personal experience (and many of us have had this experience), don't expect your vet to be receptive of what you tell them. Many get defensive, but the protocol we follow here really does work.

Definitely get another test. If he's high enough you can shoot, or you can skip if that's why you're most comfortable with. The people here will guide you...heed their advice! :smile:

~Suzanne
 
Robin-S said:
Fair enough, I will go test him right now. Also there will be no shot tonight and after his morning BG I will be reducing it to 1u , do you think that's a safe dose? My syringes don't have any lower markings on them so my next thing is to get different syringes . I will be talking with his vet tomorrow and telling him the plan of action going off your advise. Please never be shy on speaking your mind with me as I know it's coming from the right place and for Dashers own good.
Click to expand...

Looking at your curve today I would never have given 2 units. I probably wouldn't have given one. I read here somewhere that the "no shot" amount is 8. something. (Sorry I'm used to mmol/L) numbers so multiply by 18. Your kitty was barely above that. You've had lots of advice on here to give just one unit from several people. My needles don't have half points either but you can eyeball it with the end of the stopper. More than one but less than two.

Libby can advise better.
 
62 +10, I updated it on his ss.
so what's everyone advise for tomorrows AM shot? 1/2U or 1U. With no shot tonight I will check him in the AM to determine what's the best dose if any.
I still have one more BG in 2 hours.
 
That's a bit better. When did you last feed Dasher? Was it immediately after the +7? Was it high carb wet or dry? Was it just gravy? How much did you feed him?

You need to test Dasher sooner than that. You need to be sure that his numbers won't drop back down again. If they do, you'll need to steer his numbers back up with food.
 
whew, I'm glad the drop stopped. When was the last time he ate?

I'm hesitant to give dosing advice for morning without knowing how tonight goes. He wasn't very high after last night's skipped shot, so it's hard to say where he'll be tomorrow. Less than 2 units, for sure, even if he bounces very high by morning.

Let's see what the next test is. We can learn a lot by seeing how long it takes them to start rising after some low numbers.
 
Yes I feed him right away HC wet and even a little dry. Wet was about a 1/3 of a can and about 25 pieces of kibble .
He's playing with his ball right now and I'm keeping a close eye on him. He seems to be getting a little annoyed with the whole ear thing.
 
You're doing OK. You do want to keep checking and get 3 rising glucose tests in a row. High carb foods may wear off quickly, especially if given as gravy, Karo, or other syrup.

He may bounce. Bouncing happens whenever the glucose drops quickly and/or drops to a lower than usual level for the cat. This triggers compensatory hormones which release stored glucose (glycogen). A bounce can last up to 3 days; you have to just wait it out, grit your teeth, and NOT increase the insulin if that happens
 
find a treat he really loves, and he'll get used to testing fast! It doesn't even have to be food - special cuddle time, brushing, whatever he really loves. My mom used to laugh at how excited Lucy used to get at pokey time. I would say "pokey time" and she would bounce off to the bathroom to get her chicken treats. Then after Lucy was off insulin, I got Jazzy. When I said "pokey time," BOTH of them went to the bathroom. I even have a note on Jazzy's spreadsheet about Lucy sitting on the meter to make sure she got her turn.

I found this dosing advice Jill gave you after your run the other night. It still seems like a good plan for tomorrow, doesn't it? But I do agree that you should test again before then. Sometimes numbers wobble up and down for a while.

Jill & Alex (GA) said:
continued from above...

i'd test again right before you go to bed tonight. post the number if he continues to drop. if not, get a good night's sleep and start over in the morning at 1u BID if he's over 200. if he's less than 200, post the number and ask for help.

just my thoughts...
Click to expand...
 
That's good advice Libby. My cat now comes running to get his ear pricked. His treat of choice - the pill pockets. He got them when he was antibiotics and loves them.
 
Checking in over here as well....How's it going Robin do you have new numbers for us yet and is he above 50 and rising...Please say yes!

Libby

You have this tonight? If you can't stay with her..shoot me a pm and I'll jump back on to keep watch.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Dasher is now at 153 +12.
I'm so relieved .
Thank all of you so much for getting us through this. Trust me lesson learned .
 
I'm comfortable with that number for tonight. Are you on board with the morning plan I posted above? Or were you thinking something else?

Sorry to be hard on you, but I've seen things go wrong and I really don't want to see that happen to anyone else.
 
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