CRF Questions - Esmeralda

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Danette & Esmeralda (Essi)

Danette & Esmeralda (Essi)

Member Since 2010
Gosh it's been forever since I have posted, I hope everyone is doing good in beanville and all furbabies are doing well also.

Just an update and a few questions.

Esmeralda still continues to do well OTJ; however, she had developed soars on her chin, so I took her to a "New Vet", they put her on Meds and suggested a senior blood panel and her teeth cleaned (3/21/12). We did all that, and her kidney's (Creatinine) are showing a 3, the doctor suggested to finish the meds and re-test her in a few weeks. Well I had her re-tested (4/27/12) in hopes that maybe (fingers crossed) her kidney's would bounce back after her teeth cleaned; no they have gotten worse, they are now 3.5.

I just came from the vet, they have showed me how to give her fluids 100cc 2xs a week, and suggested Hills Prescription GD, and a tablespoon of pumpkin (no filler) per meal.

I wanted your feedback before I switch her food out (current food Merrick C/C, Trader Joes -Tuna), which will mean I will be back to give her insulin. Im seeing Hills GD as 32%carbs, but less protein.

Is there a happy medium?

Any suggestions?

Danette & Essi
4/27/12
Renal Profile: Renal Panel
Bun 55
Creatinine 3.5
Cholesterol 219
These are the only high areas
 
Re: UPDATE & Questions - Esmeralda

Re the sores they sound like feline acne and changing to glass dishes may help that. They are not linked to kidney disease but are caused by some kind of allergy/residue in plastics etc and with the couple of cats I had/have with that they were fine for years and developed it in midle age.

Re the food. Another option my vet uses for CRF cats who don't like the canned kidney foods is Hills JD. It is pretty tasty for cats and moderate in protein and would probably work better than the dry food they're suggesting. I'm not certain of the carb level in it but it'll be better than 30%.
 
Re: UPDATE & Questions - Esmeralda

Thank you any suggestions would be soooo helpfull, I am truelly at a loss w/this.

I know kidney disease is fatal, and diabetes is manageable, but I am on a mission to find a happy medium; in fact thats how I found this great place full of fantastic beans :smile:
 
Re: UPDATE & Questions - Esmeralda

Good to see you, though I'm sorry Essi isn't feeling well.

There are plenty of people here who have dealt with renal insufficience and diabetes together. I am not one of them. I do know that this is THE BEST website for feline CKD: http://www.felinecrf.org/ Maybe start reading while you're waiting for others to show up.
 
Re: UPDATE & Questions - Esmeralda

The website that Libby linked is excellent. You are going to need to look for foods that are both low carb and low in phosphorus. I'd suggest changing your subject line to "CRF Questions." As Libby noted, there are a number of people here who have experience with both FD and a cat with kidney issues.
 
CRF is also manageable to some extent. Esmeralda's numbers are not too bad and with fluids etc she could still havd several years. I adopted Minxy when she was 21 and had had CRF for 2+ years and she got another 7 months with me and made it to 22. The site the other suggest is great
 
Hi Danette

I have a kitty with CKD (it is old school for vets to call it CRF) but he is not FD. However, I would highly recommend you avoid the prescription diet foods. There are low carb foods that, while not as low phosphorus as the prescription diets, they are lower phosphorus than most foods. Foer example, Merricks Cowboy cookout (5%) and Surf and Turf (3%) would be good selections. Also, Wellness turkey and Wellness chicken...they are borderline on phosphorus but are fine for a FD as they are both 4%. Also, very LC and fine on phosphorus levels are Before Graind and BG beef.

For the level where she is with her creat, she should be getting fluids daily. A creat of 3.5 is typically the point where fluids are needed on a daily basis. Having said that, ECID with CKD cats as with FD. What was her BUN? Of course, you don't want to give 200 mls a day. I would tell my vet I wanted to give daily fluids and what would be a good amount for her? I order my lines and needles from www.thrivingpets.com. The lines you want should match the bag type. I order my bags from Walgreens and with a family prescription card which is $20/year, the bags aree $22/case of 12. You need to order lines that match the bags. Be sure you are giving LRS. Some vets want to give Normosol but the makeup of it is not as good for CKD cats.

Here is a great demo video..it is awesome!

Sophia gets her subs[.
 
Marjorie,
Her bun 3/21/12 45
4/27/12 55

I had read from http://www.felinecrf.org/, that her 4/27/12 test's were from maybe being dehydrated (which makes since it was over 4 weeks since her last fluids from the vet).

Essi has been on Merrick c/c 10%, and Trader Joe's Tuna 90% of the time. I did stop off at the vets yesterday and broke down and got 5 cans of the Hills g/d and mixed it w/her c/c last night and this morning. I so panicked yesterday, the vet called yesterday and said "having CRF is deadly but the diabetes is manageable", and I panicked (did not keep my head about myself :YMSIGH: )

I did however get a bag of fluids, (the vet gave her 1cc yesterday/Monday) I am to give her 1cc Thursday. So her fluid days would be Monday & Thurday 1cc each.
Is there any way to test her Creatinine levels at home? I will put a call into te vet and ask if I can give her fluids once a day? I know she said twice a week and retest Essi in 90 days (end of July) to see were her numbers are.

I am seeing Innova EVO 95% Venison is very low on carbs and 146 in phos, were has Merrick C/C is 203 in phos. Essi has also been on the Tuna from Trader Joe's, which the phos level is not on Binkyspage, I am hopefull the Tuna is the culprit here w/her diet. Has anyone tried the Venison, or the beef from Natura/Innova?

The Vet also suggested 1 tablespoon of Pumpking, (non filler, non spices) with each meal.

I know the vet is trying to fix this, she did call Hills, but of course Hills is going to say what it takes to make there profit margin (I know thats bad to say), and I know that CRF can be deadly, but I just cringed and said a few curse words :evil: when I asked the vet what the carbs were for the Hills G/D (binkyspage is 32%, and Hills told the Vet its 41% carbs).

Is there a down side if I were to give her tooooo much fluids?

I know I am throwing a lot of questions out there, but I didnt know were to go.

Thank You and Happy Tuesday to all the beans and furbabies out there.
 
Sorry if my thoughts are scattered here, but I'm in the middle of several things at work and wanted to share my experiences with CRF so far. One of my civvies crashed in early December, and her BUN was 263, creatinine 13.8 :shock: at the ER. It took 11 days in the hospital to stablize her :sad:. They checked her again about 2 weeks after her release, and then about monthly after that. She's hanging in the 50s-70s for BUN, and her creatinine is slightly above "normal" range. She's going for another re-check on Thursday. She was sent home with instructions to give her 60 mL LRS a day, and she has been on that regimen ever since. Another civvie was diagnosed with lymphoma in her pancreas in early January, and the IV chemo treatments affected her kidneys (have since switched to more kidney-friendly oral chemo), so she too is getting LRS every day. I am hopeful we can reduce that after she gets checked this week... she makes a dramatic scene when I give her fluids :roll:. I *WISH* there was a way to test BUN/creat/etc. at home. Honestly, I felt much more helpless dealing with CRF than FD since I could not home test. But it is manageable and there are a number of people on FDMB who have also dealt with renal problems.

As for diet, they aren't diabetic, so I wasn't as restricted in terms of carbs, but I do try to avoid the clearly carb-laden foods. The vets did try to shove the prescription food on me, and I feed it sometimes, but for the most part I choose foods that have phos <1%. So far I have not added any phosphorus binder to their food. Lymphoma civvie eats very well, but CRF kitty is pretty fussy. If she continues to not want to eat, I may have to resort to enticing her with foods that I *know* she likes but have higher phos, but add binder.

Bottom line is, acknowledging that ECID, my vet thought CRF civvie was a goner. She is still with me and acting like herself. Lymphoma took my precious Donovan from me suddenly :cry:, yet this lymphoma kitty has beaten the odds so far.

Regarding "too much fluids", yes you need to be careful with that if your cat has heart issues (mine does).

I don't know if any of that helped... feel free to keep throwing questions our way.

MJ
 
Danette:

I'm sure the amount of fluids is not 1cc.....that is the same as 1ml which is tiny...fits in a tiny syringe. Do you mean 100ccs or 100 mls? Yes, you can overhydrate her. Her BUN is not that high so that's good. It's best to let them get as much hydration from drinking and from water you add to their food....that is always the best. It's usually recommended to start giving fluids when the creat is 3.5 or over. You can't test it at home. It's better to give, say 50 mls every day than 100 mls every other day. Again, I'd discuss it with my vet and tell him you are concerned. You can tell how hydrated she is by pinching up her scruff...does the fur and skin snap back quickly? It should. Also..her gums should be slick. My CKD kitty has a creat of about 3.8 and he gets 125 mls every day and he still drinks on his own. He was diagnosed almost two years ago and we've held his BUN at about 70 and creat betwen 3.5-3.8 and he's doing really well.

When you do give fluids, you need to check her before you give them the next time to be sure she has absorbed everything. Check all around her chest, down her front legs (make sure they are not swollen looking from fluids going into the interstitial spaces there), around her back, etc. You can also keep tabs on her weight. If she weighs alot more one day from the next and you've given fluids, she's probably still retaining them.

The thing that really concerns me about the prescription diets is they are old school...they restrict the protein. Current research shows that restricting protein in a CKD cat makes no sense. The value to those diets is they are low phosphorus. What is her phosphorus level? If it's around 4, that is great! If it's creeping up around 5, I'd work on the food first and get a high quality diet with lower phosphorus. If it continues up, I'd add a binder like aluminum hydroxide. It is tasteless and works very well to keep phosphorus down.....but controlling it with low phosphorus food is the best way. It is high phosphorus levels that can really make them feel bad. We've been able to keep Gus's around 4.3 by feeding the foods I told you about and also using a binder.

I was falling asleep last night but the other thing is when you order needles, I would highly recommend the Terumo Ultra Thin Wall...they are fantastic. The gauge depends on how long she will sit still. If she's fine with the fluids and will sit there without any problem, then I'd go with a 21g. If she squiggles and tries to get away, you might want to go with a 19 or 20g. I use a 22g on Gus....he'll sit there all day and purr. It makes smaller holes. I also keep my needles in the freezer..about five at a time as it kind of dulls the ouch of when you insert it...and always insert bevel up.

Hope this helps.
 
i know another diagnosis can cause a panic, but you've gotten lots of good advice here. Tanya's site is great, but just as overwhelming as reading all the info here at once.

Tess is borderline for kidney insufficiency. Last fall her Phos had gone up to 5.4 , just by going to lower phosphorus foods in 3 months it dropped to 4.6 and her Creatinine dropped too. Marje is so right about the protein restricted diet being old school, not enough attention has been paid to feline nutrition at vet schools. You can feed for both CKD and FD but the choices are more limited. If you go to Tess's SS I have a tab called "LC/low Phos" where I have been collecting foods that meet both criteria, Jill has one too on hers but I think we both have mostly the same foods.

On the up side Cowboy Cookout is a good FD food and is relatively low in phos too. The bad thing is that the TJ Tuna isn't listed for Phos on any of the lists, but fish tends to have higher phos levels. Just eliminating that may be a big step. Fluids are a good start, but getting the Phos levels down is really important too. If the lower Phos foods don't help by her next blood test, I'd look into a Phos binder before going to the prescription foods. They are just poor quality ingredients and protein quality is just as important on reducing the stress on the kidneys as reducing amount of it is. I think even the Friskies Special Diet Turkey & Giblets 5% carbs and .82% Phos (Tanya's list) is a better choice than the prescription food.
 
Hey Guys,
I cant thank you guys enough, makes me cry

I was getting my nails done this morning, and was surfing different foods, comparing Binky's Chart to Tanya's Chart, and I had a light bulb go on :idea:

I googled FB and CRF Foods for Felines, I found this viewtopic.php?=28&t=28884 (GREAT POST FROM JENNY & SUE)

Once again I have an angel on my shoulder, Merrick BG Chicken, has low Phos levels, and low carbs. Called my local Petco, and sure enough, they had it in stock. So I cleaned them out :razz:
The 4 cans I have left from Hills GD went in the trash, and so did the TJ Tuna; I did keep a few cans for the tuna/water, I might need to poor over Essi's food from time to time when she is being stuborn.

But I did read (googled) how the TJ tuna is extremely high is phos levels. But never gives the actual levels of phos. I should have checked into it before I started giving it to my furbabies as a routine diet of it.

Essi would prefer the tuna, but has eaten Merrick C/C also, so this switch to Merrick BG Chicken wont such a battle (I dont think).

I do have a call into the vet asking if I can give her fluids every day instead of Mon & Thursday, she hasnt called me back yet. And I never thought of weighing Essi yesterday, I will weigh her today (she feels heavy when I pick her up), I know before her fluids she usually is 11.2lbs, but that is according to the vet scale, not my scale at home.

Ann - What do you mean.... "and always insert bevel up" I know to pull up the scruff (as if it were an insulin shot) but go behind the front scruff so the tubes don't lay on her head.

I am so thrilled about the food, I thought for sure I was going to have to put Essi on Hills g/d. I am going to look at Tess's SS & Jill's food chart. I felt so in control throwing that Hills stuff away, it was like a weight was lifted (I am women here my roar :lol: )

What does happen if I do over hydrate her? worse case?
 
here's an image of a beveled needle, facing UP
needle-only.jpg


I'm probably one of the few people here who doesn't give fluids by dripping from the bag. The vets taught me to remove 60 mL from the fluids bag in a large plastic syringe, and inject directly. I connect a winged infusion needle to the syringe:
terumo_butterfly_1.jpg

I can explain further if you're interested. Word of warning: I thought I would be nice to my poked kitties and purchased thinner-gauge needles recently (23 vs 21 that I had been using), and OMG does it take a lot more force to push 60 mL out. I think I have a permanent dent in my chest now from holding the syringe and pushing against it (my hands aren't big enough or strong enough to do it). I use the other hand to keep the cat still :cool:. The max those syringes will hold is ~70 mL, so if you need to give more than that, you either have to do it twice :o or stick with the drip method.

MJ
 
The bevel advice wasn't rom me, but when you look at the needle you want to see the bevel on the tip facing up, you wil see the opening. Facing up gives you a better flow.

I'm going to check out that link you found too.

Get the G/D out of the trash, your vet should give you a refund on it. Just say she refuses to eat it.

Wouldn't it be nice if all the info was in one place? :roll: Janet' list is still good, but I've been told that the phos info is out dated, go with Tanya's list for that. An important thing to remember is that Tanya's list is calculated on Dry Matter basis and Janet & Binky's is Metabolized Energy. So numbers aren't exactly equivalent.

Don't go into one food too fast. Tess won't eat the Merrick BG any more, she did at first but not now. If you are willing to go frozen raw, the Nature's Variety Organic Chicken is 4% carbs and about 165mg/100kcal phos. Tanya's list doesn't list raw foods.
 
The bevel question was from Marjorie, sorry Ann, but thank you for answer anyways ;-) , will have to examine the needle more closely, when I get home tonight.

When Essi was first diagnosed w/FD, I went searching for food, and brought home some raw frozen chicken, Essi turned her nose up at it, and my dh was grossed/creeped out by it in the freezer, but I might have to give it a whirl again, because they are so few options for food w/low phos and low carbs, and it is the lowest by far.

What wll happen if I over hydrate Essi? what are the symptoms?
 
With sub-q fluids I think the main concern is for cats w/heart problems. Too much fluid causes too much pressure on the heart. Ihaven't needed to give fluids in years and am not up to date on the details. Check w/ Marje, she deals with it daily.
 
Hi Danette! We have not met before, I don't think. So- hello! :mrgreen:

I am sorry to hear about the diagnosis your vet gave Essi. Please know that ckd can be manageable for YEARS! My cat made it through acute kidney failure, then 3.5yrs of ckd. It was not the ckd (or diabetes) that took her either!

One of my first questions is regarding the dental. Can you find out what pain medication your vet used during or after the procedure? I would be concerned if he gave metacam at any point, that could have been the cause for rise in Essi's creatinine.
Here is some information on "The Dental Connection""
The Dental Connection

It is a good idea to have a mouth, teeth, and gum examination done during each annual examination. Just as in people, removal of tartar, teeth cleaning, etc. can be beneficial in keeping a cat healthy. The bacteria present in the mouth resulting from dental problems can certainly contribute to CRF. A significant percentage of the letters we've received from visitors to the Web site mention that CRF was diagnosed either just prior to or just after routine teeth cleaning or dental surgery.

The connection between dental procedures and the diagnosis of CRF may be the result of a number of factors.

The routine blood work done prior to or after dental surgery may reveal CRF that has been present in the patient for some time.
The anesthesia used during oral surgery could exacerbate existing CRF and cause the sudden appearance of symptoms. Be sure to request that any anesthesia be a type that does not tax the kidneys.
The oral surgery itself may endanger the kidneys by causing the release of bacteria and their toxins during the procedure. Talk to your vet about administering antibiotics for a time prior to dental work.
Click to expand...
http://www.felinecrf.com/what0.htm

It' a little puzzling that all values are normal except the creatinine, cholesterol, and bun. Even the BUN is not terribly high. I would expect it to be a tad higher with a 3.5 creatinine (but, ECID :mrgreen: ). Is there a way for you to get a copy of the labs done and post the other values, along with the normal ranges? I am curious about the phosphorous. Most vets do not consider it high as long as it is in normal range. yet with a cat who has kidney issues that cut off should be considered at a much lower point (6).

The idea behind the fluids is to help keep Essi maintain hydration at all times. Her body is likely having a tougher time concentrating the urine, so what goes in comes right out pretty quickly. If you give a large amount at one time, and not very often, Essi will probably pee it out and then have nothing to help her maintain that hydration for a period of time (days?). Giving a smaller amount everyday (or every few days) is often a much more effective way to go, and less chance of overhydrating. Here is some WONDERFUL information on subq fluids (what, how, when, amount, dangers, etc.....)
http://www.felinecrf.org/subcutaneous_fluids.htm

I also got my supplies (needles, iv lines) from thriving pets. If your vet will write you a prescription, you should be able to take it to a walmart or sam's club. I paid about $20 for a case (12 bags) of fluids. It helped for me to bring an empty bag of fluids with the script, so they made sure to get the right thing.

As to the food...I think the Merricks was a good choice, the last time I looked, for both diabetes and ckd. I won't repeat the reasons others gave, but I strongly believe you do NOT need to feed the kidney prescription foods. In addition to Janet and Binky's list you can look at this chart to help guide you with the phosphorus:
http://www.felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm
If phosphorus is high, you can choose any foods you want and add a phosphorus binder. This can be ordered through thriving pets, as well!

Finally, I would greatly encourage you to bookmark http://www.felinecrf.org/index.htm (you were already given this link).
And register to join Tanya's yahoo group. It may take a day or so for approval. The wealth of knowledge and support in that group is as abundant as FDMB. They will be your greatest resource at times.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/tanyas-crf-support/

Hang in there! It can feel very overwhelming. Truth be told, I thought the CKD was much easier to manage than the FD.
 
Hey Carolyn,
It's a pleasure talking/writing/sharing with you.
Yes I will download/scan Essi's Renal Profile, will do it tomorrow, all my scanner stuff is in my office.
I did however look at her dental receipt. They did two extractions, the pain meds that came home was Buprenex and Clavamox for infections (I did not finish it).

I did have Essi on TJ Tuna, and Merrick C/C, more of the Tuna than C/C. The phos levels on tuna are very high and not recommended for an exclusive diet, which I did not know until today. I think her high creat levels are from the tuna. But its just a speculation from what I've been reading.

Currently the vet has her on Orbax for infection, as a precaution, because I didn't finish her other meds. And 100cc of fluids Mon & Thur. However, the vets nurse called this afternoon (I called them earlier, to ask if I can reduce the cc and give them everyday) they want me to NOW give her 100cc every other day. I just looked at my DH, why did I bother even calling....I'm even more confused on what volume to give her. The vet said there will be no harm to Essi if I over hydrate her. Well I know that's not true.

The vet did take her blood pressure at the time of the renal panel, and it came in at 108.

I know (well hopefully) the vet is trying here to do there best, this is a new vet to us, and she keeps saying Essi's OTJ is rare and is amazed she takes no insulin because of her diet and shows no signs of being a diabetic. Iam still hopefull this vet will be more open minded than the last one (the last vet was so rude about Essi's OTJ, she might as well have kicked me out of her office). But I was warned by several members here it may result in my feelings getting hurt, and they were right!


Enough of my rants lol

Have a great night

Purs & Hugs
Danette & Essi
 
Danette & Esmeralda (Essi) said:
Hey Carolyn,
It's a pleasure talking/writing/sharing with you.
Yes I will download/scan Essi's Renal Profile, will do it tomorrow, all my scanner stuff is in my office.
I did however look at her dental receipt. They did two extractions, the pain meds that came home was Buprenex and Clavamox for infections (I did not finish it).
Click to expand...
Great! Metacam would be a pretty big no no for a kitty with renal issues. You want to make sure they did not give it as a shot during the dental, though...ok?

Danette & Esmeralda (Essi) said:
I did have Essi on TJ Tuna, and Merrick C/C, more of the Tuna than C/C. The phos levels on tuna are very high and not recommended for an exclusive diet, which I did not know until today. I think her high creat levels are from the tuna. But its just a speculation from what I've been reading.
Click to expand...
Correct- fish stuff is not great for most cats on a regular basis, but especially those with renal issues. Latte had IBD/lymphoma, in addition to the kidney disease, diabetes and a few other things (including being very picky). What we found worked best was wellness chicken or turkey. Again, if the phos is over 6 you can always add a binder, mixed in the food and feed whatever Essi's heart desires. :mrgreen: (low carb, of course! ;-) )

Danette & Esmeralda (Essi) said:
Currently the vet has her on Orbax for infection, as a precaution, because I didn't finish her other meds. And 100cc of fluids Mon & Thur. However, the vets nurse called this afternoon (I called them earlier, to ask if I can reduce the cc and give them everyday) they want me to NOW give her 100cc every other day. I just looked at my DH, why did I bother even calling....I'm even more confused on what volume to give her. The vet said there will be no harm to Essi if I over hydrate her. Well I know that's not true.
Click to expand...
Orbax is often less taxing on the tummy than clavamox. So that is good. Did she have an infection found via urinalysis/culture/sensitivity? Or was this just in case?

I think, considering the creatinine, 100 e/o day is reasonable. You just want to make sure the pocket of fluid which will form (usually on the side) is gone before you administer any more. When Latte was in the acute renal failure, I had to give her 200ml/day! :shock: And her weight was only 6lbs. Believe it or not, she absorbed it all! The last 1.5-2yrs of her life she received anywhere between 75-150ml/day (she did vomit a lot, tho). Her last kidney panel, probably within a month of passing, only showed a slight increase in creatinine (2.8 from a steady 2.5 for a few years). I honestly believe....and so did the vets...that her regular fluid regimen made a world of difference when it came to her kidneys. It did get to a point where I was able to know what amount/frequency was best for her. If I considered BIG changes, I would consult the vet. Otherwise we just agreed on a range. Kind of like the insulin.


I hope you have a great night, too!
 
Danette

Your vet is not the first one that I've heard say you can't over hydrate them. Yes you can! Especially if the kitty has any heart issues including a murmur. When my 21 year old cat started showing rising creat and BUN, I had an echo done of her heart and everything came back normal including blood pressure. I started giving her 125 mls a day and it was too much for her Aging heart. No..she didn't have heart issues but in hindsight, we should have all recognized that her little ticker was pretty old. It just couldn't keep up and I lost her to congestive heart failure. So when my next kitty was diagnosed with CKD and needed 200 mls per day ( he was a big cat), I did 100 mls bid and he never had a problem.
 
Hey Guys,

I uploaded Essi's last Renal profile.

Gosh, Im so afraid of over hydrating her, I looked at her gums this morning, she has saliva, but I dont see the lump any more, Ive been feeling all over her legs and sides, dont feel anything either. The vet said she didnt have high blood pressure, but did hear a murmur, but didnt mention any thing more of it.

Monay the vet said give her the fluids Mondays and Thursday's 100cc; Now yesterday the vet is saying 100cc's every other day, what if i dd 50cc every other day?
 
Definitely better to split up the amount when possible. I had to give 150 mL/day for a short while for elevated renal values, and giving that much to a little 5-lb cat was disturbing. I split it into 75 mL a.m. and p.m.

MJ
 
Hmmm. I can't speak to how often CRF kitties are typically tested, but July is a ways off. Granted, my CRF kitty was very very ill when diagnosed, but they recommended checking her monthly, and as her values have stayed steady, every other month. Now, the other kitty who had elevated renal values from chemo (we assume; she is 15 so renal disease isn't out of the question) -- perhaps she can stop getting fluids. I'm hopeful since she's a little spitfire for pokeys, but you gotta do what you gotta do :-|

As for whether CRF kitties can go "OTJ", I suppose it depends on the cause of the renal issues and how much damage occurred. I don't know enough about cat physiology to answer that.

MJ
 
Danette & Esmeralda (Essi) said:
Hey Guys,

I uploaded Essi's last Renal profile.

Gosh, Im so afraid of over hydrating her, I looked at her gums this morning, she has saliva, but I dont see the lump any more, Ive been feeling all over her legs and sides, dont feel anything either. The vet said she didnt have high blood pressure, but did hear a murmur, but didnt mention any thing more of it.

Monay the vet said give her the fluids Mondays and Thursday's 100cc; Now yesterday the vet is saying 100cc's every other day, what if i dd 50cc every other day?
Click to expand...

Phosphorus looks good, but something to watch and add binder if it creeps up to 6. Nothing else is really standing out as big red flags to me.

I think if you are confused about the amount of fluids it would be wise to call them AGAIN. Wasnt it the tech or receptionist who told you to give an increased amount? Maybe things got confused in the line of communication. Better yet, why dont you tell the vet what YOU think would be a good amount/frequency and ask them what they think about it? :mrgreen: Often times that is how I approached things.

Testing is dependent on the cat, usually. Those who come in with high renal values (arf), or when initially diagnosed may get labs checked every week or two. Those with relatively low, or stable numbers may check every 3-6 months. I think the end of July sounds reasonable, unless you notice any symptoms...ie/vomiting, licking lips, drinking more water, not eating, difficulty pooping, etc.

Unfortunately there is no OTJ with ckd. Its a progressive condition. You can do things to hopefully help slow the progression. But you can't change it (short of a kidney transplant!). Certainly taking out high phosphorus foods (ie/fish), and giving fluids can help slow things down. :mrgreen:

:YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:

Did you have a chance to sign up on Tanyas yahoo group yet?
 
Many of us get our FD cats checked every 6 months. For CKD, I think it would depend on how serious it is. Tess is early stage 2 and we are monitoring for changes every 3 months. We saw a definite change in her numbers in that time by just going to a lower phos food. 3 months is reasonable, but if it worries you there is no reason, other than money, not to have her tested earlier. In my opinion testing is worth the money if you can stay on top of things and keep it from progressing as fast.

A thought on the labs, if you go to Tess's SS I have yet another tab for her labs. It is a SS so for every test I can just add in the new results in a new date column. On the bottom of Esmeralda's BG spreadsheet there is a + sign. Clicking it creates a new sheet on a tab. On Tess's labs sheet (a blank SS), I put the tests are down and dates across others do it the opposite. It gives a great reference for any changes in values. Plus it is always connected to your SS so you always can find it and so can every one else. The worst part is typing out all the test names, I copied this out of our SS you should be able to copy and paste them in. Just get them in the same order as you vets lab uses and it only takes a couple of minutes to update for every set of new results.

IDEXX Laboratories
Test
  • Weight
    Alk. Phosphatase
    ALT (SGPT)
    AST (SGOT)
    CK
    GCT
    Amylase
    Lipase
    Albumin
    Total Protein
    Globulin
    Total Bilirubin
    Direct Bilirubin
    BUN
    Creatinine
    Cholesterol
    Glucose
    Calcium
    Phosphorus
    TCO2 (Bicarbonate)
    Chloride
    Potassium
    Sodium
    A/G Ratio
    B/C Ratio
    Indirect Bilirubin
    Na/K Ratio
    Hemolysis Index (1)

    Lepemia Index (2)

    Anion Gap
Senior Profile: T4
  • T4 (1)

SENIOR PROFILE : CBC COMPREHENSIVE
  • WBC
    RBC
    HGB
    HCT
    MCV
    MCH
    MCHC
    Neutrophil Seg
    Lymphocytes
    Monocytes
    Eosinophil
    Basophil
    Auto Platelet
    Remarks
    Absolute Neutrophil Seg
    Absolute Lymphocyte
    Absolute Monocyte
    Absolute Eosinophil
    Absolute Basophil

SENIOR PROFILE : URINALYSIS
  • Collecting method
    Color
    Clarity
    Specific Gravity
    Glucose
    Bilirubin
    Ketones
    Blood
    Ph
    Protein
    WBC
    RBC
    Bacteria
    EPI cell
    Mucus
    Casts
    Crystals
    Other
    Urobilinogen

    Culture IF (4033-with MIC)
    Culture IF
 
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