Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +6.5=58, +7=63, +8=113, +11=390

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blove7

Member Since 2013
Brandon:
Cords was jammin all day yesterday and last night and ended up at 102 this morning at AMPS... sticking with "the protocol" I gave him 1.25 units and straight to the bottom he went (19 @ +2). This is why I'm not so convinced about "the protocol". ATM I'm monitoring him constantly and feeding him karo syrup and HC upon low 1/2 hourly test results. I guess this means he gets another dose decrease, eh? ;)

I hope ya'll and your VIKs are doing great today! Happy Saturday!
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +2.5=36, +3=30, +3.5=51

Hi Brandon,

I'm glad you were able to post. I saw the low numbers on the SS this morning. Yikes! :shock: I'm glad to see Corduroy has risen. You're doing a great job - hang in there!

Shelly
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +2.5=36, +3=30, +3.5=51

Brandon:
Thanks so much for your PM, posts, and concern Shelly. This board has been fighting me all morning.. not loading, not posting, double-posting, lag.. lag.. more lag.. but hey, yeah, it's given me plenty to do while waiting for C's next test. :shock:

Anyway, yep, I'm hanging in there and I'm about to test him again, so stay tuned.. let's hope it starts to level out right about where it was last time (+3.5=51)!
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +2.5=36, +3=30, +3.5=51, +4=42

Brandon:
Alright, well, 42 wasn't what I was looking for. I gave him a 1/2 mL of karo and a spoonful of HC food. Should I be giving him more karo? I just don't want him to shoot back up to 501 like the last time we went through this.
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +2.5=36, +3=30, +3.5=51, +4=42

I'm having the same issues you are with the board. :YMSIGH: I'm trying to watch for you as much as I can, and I have your SS open so I can "stalk" you. You're doing a fantastic job getting those numbers back up when they dip low. Hopefully Corduroy will get up and surf some higher numbers soon.
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +2.5=36, +3=30, +3.5=51, +4=42

Sorry - we cross-posted.

If you already gave some Karo after that 41, you might hold off on any more until the next test. At this point, he may shoot up to the 500s no matter what you do - 19 is awfully low.
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +2.5=36, +3=30, +3.5=51, +4=42

Brandon:
Something has got to be done about these site issues. I went on a rant a little while ago. Here's the URL in case you care to read it: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=117606&p=1241265#p1241265

Shelly, I see you posted after I posted my update.. I just want to make sure you go back and see it since I asked a question about karo dose. Thanks again for your attention and hangin here with me!
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +2.5=36, +3=30, +3.5=51, +4=42

Shelly & Jersey said:
Sorry - we cross-posted.

If you already gave some Karo after that 41, you might hold off on any more until the next test. At this point, he may shoot up to the 500s no matter what you do - 19 is awfully low.

Yep, I did gave him about 1/2 mL of karo and a bit more HC after that 42 test. I've been doing that each time on the downswing. Not sure if this is proper protocol or not. :/
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +2.5=36, +3=30, +3.5=51, +4=42

Basically you're retesting every 20-30 minutes, brandon, and giving about a teaspoon of gravy from high carb cat food (gravy, not the food) or a couple of drops of karo syrup. then waiting and retesting.

If you haven't printed out the How to handle low numbers sticky: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=147 here it is. Everyone should have it printed and available.

DON'T PANIC! or HOW TO HANDLE LOW NUMBERS

First, try to not panic. Post to the Lantus Insulin Support Group or on the Health Board. Make sure your subject line indicates you are concerned about a possible hypo and/or add the 911 icon to the first post in your condo. People who are experienced in dealing with low numbers will be there to help. After posting, remember to refresh your browser periodically to see if people have replied.

It’s important to recognize that just because your cat may be experiencing low BG numbers doesn’t mean that your kitty is critically hypoglycemic. Many cats will have low numbers and never have symptoms. It’s important, though, to bring those numbers up into a safe range. ALWAYS make sure you have a stock of test strips, high carb (HC) canned food that contains gravy and is over 15% carb such as Fancy Feast grilled, marinated, or Gravy Lovers varieties (see Dr. Lisa's Cat Food Nutritional Composition List for a full list of options), and/or a simple sugar solution such as Karo/corn syrup, honey, maple syrup, etc.

If your cat is experiencing symptoms, especially if those symptoms are severe, you need to rub Karo syrup, honey, or maple syrup on the gums or, if symptoms are very severe, administer rectally and get your cat to the nearest 24-hour emergency facility. Take the bottle of syrup with you to administer on the way if necessary. (Note that it is rare that we see episodes of symptomatic hypoglycemia with Lantus and even rarer to see severe symptoms. But, you need to know what to do should they occur.)

The symptoms to be concerned about include but are not limited to:
staggering, uncoordinated movements, 'drunken' walk, wobbling, balance problems
ataxia - usually lack of muscular coordination, but maybe changes in head and neck movements
disorientation (yowling, walking in circles, etc.)
twitching
stupor
convulsions or seizures
coma
If your cat is testing in low numbers and you are not getting a quick response to your post, there are several things you need to do. (Low numbers are under 50mg/dL or 2.8 mmol/L.)

Depending on how carbohydrate sensitive your cat is, feed approximately a teaspoon or less of gravy from high carb food or high carb food only.
(If you have a cat with GI issues, using a couple of drops of syrup plus low carb food is an alternative.)
Test again in 15 – 20 min. Depending on the numbers, give more HC food.
Repeat the above steps every 15 – 20 min. until your cat tests in the 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) or above range for 2 consecutive tests. Continue to feed in small amounts to keep numbers in a safe range.
Test in 30 - 40 min. and repeat the test and feed process until there are 2 consecutive tests where numbers are stable or rising.
Test in an hour and follow the same steps.
DO NOT become complacent. If number have risen after one or two tests, it’s important to continue testing. Numbers may bobble up and down as the HC food and/or Karo wear off. DO NOT get one test where your cat has risen from low numbers into the 50s and go to sleep or leave the house. You are putting your cat in a risky situation. When in doubt, leave HC food out.

In the case of an accidental overdose or should there be symptoms of hypoglycemia, even if you have caught this in the early stages, you may need to monitor for literally 16 or more hours. Lantus and Levemir are long acting types of insulin. This means if your cat is over dose, you will need to stay alert for hours in order to closely monitor and to keep your cat safe.

Please post your numbers. Those people who are helping you will not abandon you. In fact, they are staying up with you. The experienced people will even work in shifts to make sure your cat is safe and you have the support you need. Remember to refresh your browser to see new posts and keep posting so we know all is well.

~ written by Sienne and Gabby

Here's the link to the facebook group that can be used to seek advice if the board is down: https://www.facebook.com/groups/62167000201/

The TR protocol does work. the premise is that by keeping a cat in non-diabetic numbers (50-120) the cat's pancreas can heal and the cat has the potential to go off of insulin and become diet-controlled.

You're doing everything right. Just keep repeating the process. Did corduroy have any symptoms when he hit that 19, or was he acting as usual? I hope you saw my last post that said that no matter what, don't give the 1.25u tonight, even if he's high. He may bounce from these low numbers, but he needs less insulin and it appears that he is in a changing phase, so we don't want to keep this dose. If he's low tonight, let's rethink the dose. If he's low tonight and you can't get on here, go to the facebook group for dosing advice.
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +2.5=36, +3=30, +3.5=51, +4=42

you want to keep repeating the process until you're getting tests over 50.

if your test shows over 50, then hold off of giving more carbs and retest in 20-30 minutes to see if he's holding over 50.

if he goes below, go back to giving carbs and retesting every 20-30 minutes.

if he stays over 50, don't give more carbs. you can give 2 teaspoons of regular low carb at that point and see if it helps him stay in green numbers over 50. you want him to have 2 consecutive tests without having to give high carbs where he's staying above 50 before you relax on the testing.
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +2.5=36, +3=30, +3.5=51, +4=42

Brandon you are doing an awesome job and of course Corduroy is too.....Healing green light to show he the beautiful green road just have to stick to more level numbers !!!! bcatrun_gif cat_pet_icon I too am having problems with SS and getting on here oh well.......Kath @-) have a great rest of the Caturaday !!!!
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +2.5=36, +3=30, +3.5=51, +4=42

Thank you Julie for that info on low BG and facebook will keep all this in a file one never knows
didn`t want 13 pages but oh well next time will pick and choose what to print :-D
:lol: lots of good info
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +2.5=36, +3=30, +3.5=51, +4=42

Brandon:
Thanks for the response and the additional resources, Julie. I've printed that document out for future reference.

You asked, "Did corduroy have any symptoms when he hit that 19, or was he acting as usual?"

He was acting on the tired and slightly spacey side.. but that can be typical for him after eating his breakfast or other meals. This morning before the AMPS test he was feeling good.. and hungry.. and energetic; a nice change from him being rather lethargic the last couple weeks from the beating he was taking at those high numbers. As I worked at my computer this morning (before AMPS and breakfast) he continued to come visit me and did his up and down trips on the file box I have that sits next to me; pawing at me and doing everything he could do to get my attention and go feed him.

So, I just tested him T+4.5 and he's back at 51.. so I'm laying off any karo or HC. Thanks again for being here and for your help/advice.
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +2.5=36, +3=30, +3.5=51, +4=42

I agree! your doing great Brandon. I also am frustrated with the board lately, its hit or miss most days, and Im glad I have several very low numbers under my belt now and can somewhat manage on my own when the board is down. I cant imagine if the board had been down on the first time I got a low #, I wouldve panicked.well..I think I did anyway, but there were good people on here who held my hand thru it! ;-)
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +2.5=36, +3=30, +3.5=51, +4=42

Great job getting that 42 back up!

Was he begging for food at that +2? A lot of cats will beg for food when sugar levels drop too low.

Hang in there, Brandon!
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +3=30, +4=42, +4.5=51, +5=37

Sorry - I've been trying to post since your +4.5. It looks like it's time for more Karo. If Corduroy gets to the point where he refuses to eat, remember that you can rub some Karo on his gums.
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +3=30, +4=42, +4.5=51, +5=37

i'm also trying to stay with you, but the board isn't cooperating. you're doing great, brandon. just keep it up. i see the 37 on the spreadsheet - that's why we don't get complacent when the numbers come up. when the carbs wear off they can go back down, as you're seeing now.

you're doing everything right. just stick with it.

i'm glad you didn't see significant symptoms. sometimes when there is a symptomatic hypo a cat can be more sensitive to insulin afterwards. you must've caught it right away. well done!

Wendy mentioned that you started a new pen on 5/6 - is that right? if so, would you note that on his spreadsheet? His prior vial of insulin must have been too old and ineffective. This has been quite a dramatic change since then.
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +3=30, +4=42, +4.5=51, +5=37

I see that you got Corduroy back up to 59. How are you doing? I know this is exhausting!
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +2.5=36, +3=30, +3.5=51, +4=42

Laura&Chichi said:
I agree! your doing great Brandon. I also am frustrated with the board lately, its hit or miss most days, and Im glad I have several very low numbers under my belt now and can somewhat manage on my own when the board is down. I cant imagine if the board had been down on the first time I got a low #, I wouldve panicked.well..I think I did anyway, but there were good people on here who held my hand thru it! ;-)

Brandon:
Thanks Laura. The way this site is running is completely ridiculous. You're right, we're lucky we've been through low numbers before. I can't imagine what it would be like for someone new to all this! ... well, actually, I can imagine and that is the reason for my rant. The necessary attention to this site is not being paid and it makes me a bit TO'd and :sad: because it's such a disservice to the incredibly awesome community that exists here.

Maybe this post will actually be posted... :?: It's a toss-up, I know. :roll:
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +3=30, +4=42, +4.5=51, +5=37

julie & punkin (ga) said:
Wendy mentioned that you started a new pen on 5/6 - is that right? if so, would you note that on his spreadsheet? His prior vial of insulin must have been too old and ineffective. This has been quite a dramatic change since then.
Brandon: Thanks Julie, that's right, we did start a new Lantus pen, I didn't realize it wasn't on the SS, thanks for the alert; I've added it. I agree, it's been quite a dramatic change! :? The thing is though, the old insulin seemed to be fine until that Convenia injection which seemed to be the turning point for the real high numbers.

Shelly & Jersey said:
I see that you got Corduroy back up to 59. How are you doing? I know this is exhausting!
Brandon: I'm doing okay, thanks for asking Shelly.. not getting much work done today (like I planned to), but I'm okay. Really I just feel bad for Cords.. he just wants to take his daily nap and this isn't working out to his advantage at all. :?
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +4=42, +4.5=51, +5=37, +5.5=59

Oh, I'm sure he's pretty sick of you at this point! :lol: He'll forgive you, though. It's good to see some rising back-to-back numbers. Hopefully you can ease off the testing soon!
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +5=37, +5.5=59, +6=64, +6.5=58

Yeah, I'm sure he's sick of me, but he's STILL being a good sport about it. I think it's gone on so long today that he's just accepted it. :smile:

and yep, I was glad to get those back-to-back higher numbers, but then this last one went back down.. albeit, not too much. Here's hoping it starts to level out at these safe numbers!
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +5=37, +5.5=59, +6=64, +6.5=58

Wow Brandon! What a way to spend your Caturday!!

You're doing a great job though and thank goodness you caught that +2! Looks like Corduroy is on a mission!!

Keep up the good work! Corduroy is lucky to have such a wonderful caretaker!
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +5=37, +5.5=59, +6=64, +6.5=58

nice job handling Corduroy's numbers today.

What I suspect is happening here is that Corduroy had some kind of infection that the Convenia has helped clear (it looks like the high numbers actually started a day or two before he was given Convenia). So the infection was making the numbers high, his insulin dose was increased rapidly (necessary when the numbers are consistently high), but once the antibiotic kicked in and the infection started to clear, now he will probably need some quick dose reductions. His dose was basically doubled in less than a week's time, so it makes sense that he'll need to come back down now.

The protocol is great, but IMHO you have some extenuating circumstances here. Sometimes you have to wing it a little when you're going down the dosing scale, especially if the reason you went UP the dosing scale was illness or infection.
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +5=37, +5.5=59, +6=64, +6.5=58

It's so nice to have a nice kitty. cat_pet_icon Jersey....not so much a nice kitty! :lol:

Even though it went down a bit, you're still lookin' great!
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +5=37, +5.5=59, +6=64, +6.5=58

glad to see he's surfing along in the 50's and 60's finally. *whew*

can you post a +11 tonight so we can see where he's at and figure out dosing for tonight's shot?
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +5.5=59, +6=64, +6.5=58, +7=63

I know that +2 was a big surprise. For some cats, when they get to a certain dose, everything quite literally snaps into place. It's almost like a light switch is flipped and the SS turns to green. I'm wondering if this is the case with Corduroy.
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +5=37, +5.5=59, +6=64, +6.5=58

Libby and Lucy said:
nice job handling Corduroy's numbers today.

What I suspect is happening here is that Corduroy had some kind of infection that the Convenia has helped clear (it looks like the high numbers actually started a day or two before he was given Convenia). So the infection was making the numbers high, his insulin dose was increased rapidly (necessary when the numbers are consistently high), but once the antibiotic kicked in and the infection started to clear, now he will probably need some quick dose reductions. His dose was basically doubled in less than a week's time, so it makes sense that he'll need to come back down now.

The protocol is great, but IMHO you have some extenuating circumstances here. Sometimes you have to wing it a little when you're going down the dosing scale, especially if the reason you went UP the dosing scale was illness or infection.
Brandon:
Thanks Libby. Your assessment here does make sense. With that said, I feel like we were lead to believe by the dental specialist that the Convenia would show signs of clearing any infection he had in his mouth much sooner than it has. We just fed him and he's still leaving his food and grinding his teeth and pawing at that left side of his mouth. On that note, I also feel like Corduroy is his own extenuating circumstance; he seems to be completely unpredictable most of the time.

julie & punkin (ga) said:
glad to see he's surfing along in the 50's and 60's finally. *whew*

can you post a +11 tonight so we can see where he's at and figure out dosing for tonight's shot?
Brandon:
Yessss, Julie, we're finally looking pretty good now! He seems to be feeling pretty good too, aside from that nagging issue with his mouth, if that is indeed where the issue is, and not "referred pain". :-| What a mind trip this all can be!

Thanks to all of you for being there today for me. This board is a one and only from what I've experienced; exceptional people all around. Thanks again, very very much.
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +6=64, +6.5=58, +7=63, +8=113

+8=113 ... here comes the bounce. :/
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +6=64, +6.5=58, +7=63, +8=113

Paws are crossed that it won't be a bad/long bounce!

Pat yourselves on the back - you did a fantastic job today! :YMHUG:
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +6=64, +6.5=58, +7=63, +8=113

Brandon:
Okay, we're at 390 @ +11, any bets on what it will be in another hour? BTW, this site seems to be working rather consistently now.. hope I didn't just jinx us all. :P
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +6=64, +6.5=58, +7=63, +8=113

i was stalking Corduroy's spreadsheet just now and saw the 390 pop up. At least that removes the question about what to do tonight. I'm glad he's not still hovering in low numbers. Given that he went from 300's to greens just night before last, however, i think i would still take the reduction to 1.0u tonight. He's spent so much time in greens lately he may not have a very long bounce - hard to say.

That's just my thought on the matter - what are you guys thinking about doing?
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +6.5=58, +7=63, +8=113, +11=39

Brandon:
Aww Julie, you're not going to guess on his PMPS #? Brigitte says it will probably go down from 390 to 360, I'm going to say it will hit 450 by PMPS. These guesses are based on C's past performance, ya just never know. Either way though, we both agree that we should take that dose decrease down to 1.0u. He's never been a big insulin dose kitty so it was scary for us to even go above 1.0u this last time, but felt we had to do something to get it to budge out of those high high numbers. I think with this new pen and everything we've been seeing these past few days, the sooner we can get back down to the .25/.50u the better.. but safely and so that he can get comfortable surfing the greens, of course. Alright, thanks for the input Julie. Will keep you all posted.
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +6.5=58, +7=63, +8=113, +11=39

hehe well, i had written my post after i saw his spreadsheet, but before i saw your post.

hmmm, i'm not much on betting, but that 19 was so low that i'll make a little guess that he might still go higher than the 390 - let's say 425 by pmps and 490 before he starts back down. what do i get if i "win?" :lol: last time he got in the 30's, on 5/7, he did spend about 18 hrs in high numbers afterwards, including that very dramatic 501! those really low numbers can be very shocking!
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +6.5=58, +7=63, +8=113, +11=39

I once commented to someone that the woman knows everything, but this is just eerie:

hmmm, i'm not much on betting, but that 19 was so low that i'll make a little guess that he might still go higher than the 390 - let's say 425 by pmps

Julie - you really should start betting! ;-)

Hope Corduroy comes down for you before reaching that 490 Julie mentioned (and I promise I'll quit stalking your spreadsheet now)!
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +6.5=58, +7=63, +8=113, +11=39

Brandon:
That is pretty amazing Julie, 3 points off! You win a... :shock: @-) :o :-D . You're right Shelly, that is eerie. Do do do do.. do do do do.. (plays twilight zone theme song). Thanks again for everything today. Have a great night and may all of your kitties safely surf the greens!
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +6.5=58, +7=63, +8=113, +11=39

:lol: really? 428? that's too funny!

you did great today, brandon! see you and brigitte tomorrow. er, or the next day - i'm headed off to visit my kids tomorrow. enjoy your weekend.
 
Re: Corduroy AMPS=102, +2=19, +6.5=58, +7=63, +8=113, +11=39

Hey all, this is Brigitte again!

Thanks for all the support and advice you gave to Brandon yesterday. What a day! So, here I am at work, blow drying someone's hair, and making excuses as to why I have to go back to the back room (I need to take my jacket off, blow my nose, etc.) so that I can check my phone for updates on Corduroy pc_work

I'm thankful that I have a partner who takes this just as seriously as I do. A lot of people wouldn't be that lucky!

Have a great Mother's Day!!! cat_pet_icon
 
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