Copper's data... Your thoughts please

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owlgal

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Not really sure how to interpret copper's data. He has high ps's numbers and some lows. But then he has high and flat readings. What is going on now? Your thoughts please. Thinking he may need more insulin or not enough duration which would mean more insulin. But he goes down low, but not for long. Too much insulin? My feelings, no. I really can't watch him the next couple of days, as we are very busy with kids performances and recitals and out most of day and night. So don't want to go too low. I don't know....

Got home late tonight and actually tested @ +13. Will try to +11 tomorrow amps so can get pspm shot in early as we will be out late at night tomorrow. Gave him 2.25u tonight already.

Oh, i wish he was responding to the insulin well. Seems like he starts to respond and then stops working. Is this normal?

Thanks!

lori
 
Lori,
Trying to wrap my head around the timing....
Tonight, that 409 was an hour later than "normal"?
If that is the case, then today was actually a better day than yesterday was. You would expect that anything longer than 12 hours, his number would continue to go up a bit because his insulin is late. And he went lower today than yesterday, so while the insulin was working, it was working a little better, right? And, your "notes" say he acted and felt better today? I'm not seeing the "bad side" here....
Since you increased to 2.25, he is doing well. There's only one cycle, the PM of the 5th, that the numbers don't look "right". The rest of the cycles, the curves are fair to good. I actually think the SS looks good.

Timing - I don't understand the plan for tomorrow. Will the AM shot be at the normal time? An hour later, or an hour earlier than normal?

Carl
 
Don't forget about Lantus as another option for possibly longer duration.

Also, I want to remind everyone that Copper is an odd case in that Lori's vet did not do ANY blood work other than a BG reading so he has not even had a MDB (minimum data base) run. That said, we were opting (a couple of weeks ago) not to stress him and Lori by taking him back to vet...or looking into finding a possibly more proactive vet which would be further away...but not too bad....30 minute drive??

Lori - if you decide to switch insulin, you will need an Rx from whatever vet you choose to take Copper to.
 
Yes, I tested an hour later tonight(+13). Tomorrow's amps i need to test and give shot 1hr early so i can give the pmps shot before i leave for evening's activities. My daughter's have a ballet until late, late that night.

So i guess the 2.25u is working, but the duration is not long enough. I think i will try to go up to 2.5u next week(mon) when i can watch him. Do you think that dose will be to high? Dr. P suggested the Basic blood panel. I guess i should just take him in to a vet and drive the distance and get his blood work. I just didn't want to stress him out more when he was just starting to respond. What will this blood panel possibly show that i already dont' know? Do you think he could be worse or something else going wrong with him? Why is it so important to get this bloodwork doen? Would this change the treatment?

Another question unrelated. He is due for his frontline plus for fleas. Do you think this effect's his BG and stresses him out? The flea season is just about over, but if i don't keep it up i'm afraid it might get out of control. It was real bad this summer for ticks and fleas in our area. I hate putting anything on him, but what else can i do for fleas/ticks? What do you all use for flea/tick control?

lori
 
Dr. P,

Yes, i've thought about the Lantus. Just thought i would try to see if this new vet would perscribe the bovine PZI or lantus. I would hate to start all over again on another insulin. I see he is responding and just think that he needs to go up to 2.5u? But don't want his BG drop too low on this dose. Need to be here to watch him.

I will try to see if i can get in next week and get blood work done. I can just go to the local vet and get the bloodwork done. They can be my vampire only!

Thanks so much for taking the time to even look @ SS and input like you have. WONDERFUL!

THANKS!!!

lori
 
Lori,
OK first, the shot timing....
Tonight's shot was an hour late, tomorrow an hour early. So that means between tonight's shot and tomorrow's shot will be only 10 hours apart. In that case, I would think about shooting 2.0 instead of 2.25 ( there is some flexibility with pzi/prozinc with respect to shot timing, depending on the duration Copper normally gets from a dose). I just think this might fall into the "Murphy's Law" category. If you count on him having short duration like he sometimes does....

Then tomorrow night, he'd be back to a 12 hour gap between shots, and you could go back to 2.25.

A lot depends on what his number is in the morning. If it's about the same as it has been the past few days, maybe just go with 2.0 ?

Next week - No, 2.5 I don't think, would be too high. But that's three days away, and what happens between now and then might change your mind. (like I've said before.....12 hours at a time, Lori! :smile: )

The blood panel.....If it's the same blood work Bob had when he was diagnosed, it will show the vet all sorts of information that will be helpful in figuring out Copper's overall picture. Probably a really good idea. I think, but not sure, that they just draw blood once, and use that to check multiple things. It will let them know if anything else is out of whack in his system. For Bob, it was useful because it showed his potassium levels were below normal, and my vet was able to give me something to treat that condition too. It also gave them info about how his kidneys and liver were doing. If anything, it is a good idea just to make sure that there isn't "something else" going on that might otherwise go unnoticed. Better to be proactive and catch things early, right? It won't change his insulin treatments. It may add some sort of supplement you would give him with his food, for instance. I think it's a good idea.

We had a really bad year for ticks here too. I found a couple on Bob, and he never goes outside. Either me or my other cat must have brought them in the house with us. I've treated him (and my other kitty, Mullet) with Frontline Plus three times since he's been off insulin, and no ill effects from the Frontline Plus. No more ticks either.
Carl
 
carlinsc said:
Lori,
So that means between tonight's shot and tomorrow's shot will be only 10 hours apart. In that case, I would think about shooting 2.0 instead of 2.25

This is a bit of an academic argument since the difference between 2 and 2.25 is probably only 'on paper' but I would not drop the dose just based on it being shot at a +10. If we keep going backwards, we will never get anywhere....and, as it is...you all know that I would be raising the dosage but I am not going to comment on that anymore since it really is WAY out of my comfort zone to even be talking about dosing outside of a *phone* discussion. Too much to type and too many things may not get said/explained....too much may be lost.

Plus, I do not give advice going forward. I have to look at the most recent cycle and the PS before commenting. (Just like you guys.) That is why I really do not like sliding scales.

If we are arguing short duration...and Lori - you originally were thinking about shooting TID when on YDC - shooting at +10 could be a good thing.
 
Dr. P,

This makes sense on the duration(+10). The only choice i do have tomorrow is either +10 or + 15 because of our schedule. I think the better of the two is +10.

I'm beginning to understand about the previous cycle and ps in order to decide the dosage and direction to go. Just very frustrating that he is responding and going good and then starts to not respond. Wonder if their bodies get used to the dosage of insulin and that is why i I think i read on Dr. Hodgkins site that you should go up or down by .50u depending on how they are responding to the insulin. That seems a little much though, especially if they have dropped to a green for a period of time. All more to think about!!!

Thanks again for your thoughts and inputs. I know it's hard for you to type on ipad and like you said there is so much more to explain and say and too much to write or expain in an email.

THANKS!!!

lori
 
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