Copper- Bouncy..Bouncy.. UPDATE

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owlgal

owlgal

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Ok, copper had a great day two cycles ago and ever since then he has been high. I stayed on the same dosage (1.7u). I wasn't home today after +3.5 and he was in the 200's and fed him. When DH got home @+7 he was starving. He fed him some food. When i got home @+10 he was VERY HUNGRY. Couldn't feed yet. Tested him and already in the 300's. I dread the pmps #. He seems to go low and then high and then low and then high on this dose. Not sure what to think. If i go up, afraid that he may go too low.

Two thoughts:

I could stay with dose (1.7u) one more day and see if he settles from bounce.

OR

I could go up to 1.8u and monitor tomorrow. NOTE: I will be around until +8 and then DH around to monitor behavior.

What is your vote?


Question for all you experienced FD'ers. When do they stop bouncing from low's??


THANKS!

Hope you all are having good cycles.
 
Re: Copper- Bouncy..Bouncy.. NEED VOTE

I vote to stay with the 1.7. You don't have the tests to really know where he went last night or today mid cycle. He could have seen better numbers than you think--maybe not, but maybe! If he is bouncing from the blues during yesterday's am cycle, then more insulin could contribute to even more bouncing.

Bouncing is hard to stop--and one reason is because we panic and try to shoot the bounce down with more insulin. So many times it appears that is develops into a vicious cycle-- we see lower numbers, they bounce, they have high flat cycles, we increase, they drop, they bounce, we have high flat cycles, we increase, they drop.........and so on!

You had a great nadir yesterday on the 1.7-- that alone would make me stay with the dose longer. But, if you increase, I am scared you are going to contribute to the vicious cycle. I would let the bounce clear (more than just one more day) and see what the dose does. It takes a LONG time for their bodies to adjust to the insulin and settle down. If is very seldom that I have seen cats come to PZI and gain regulation in a few months. There are a few that diet alone will make a tremendous difference, but for most kitties it take a lot of time.

You are doing great....patience! (I have none either!)

I see in your signature that you are feeding foods less than 10 percent carb....are you feeding any foods close to 10 percent carbs? Just curious!
 
Re: Copper- Bouncy..Bouncy.. NEED VOTE

Thanks Kim and Robin. I am really only feeding 4% carbs or less of ff. I am feeding raw food diet from felines pride 2x day. He loves it! Thinking it is around 4% carbs. I'm trying to be very consistant on the feeding. He did catch a birdie the other day and i let him finish it out and fed him a little less. Thought it was good protein. Hate he hate one of my goldfinches though. I guess he was hungry that day. Surprised he could even catch one with his neuro.

Guess i will go for the 1.7u and hold until i get more numbers. I have been holding for a week now on that dose and going very slowly up this time around. He really responds to even a small amount of increase.

I've tried not to increase when he bounces and have held his dose. So i hope i'm not going into the cycle. Does it look like on my SS that he is in that vicious cycle of bounce and high flats etc? Should i try the lower dose and see what happens?

THANKS again!
 
Re: Copper- Bouncy..Bouncy.. NEED VOTE

I will look at the spreadsheet in more detail and share my thoughts with you!
 
Re: Copper- Bouncy..Bouncy.. NEED VOTE

Pmps@ 331
Fed 1.5 oz(raw and ff)
shot 1.6u

Shot a slight bit lower tonight so i can get some rest tonight and not have to monitor so closely. Will go back up to the 1.7u again tomorrow and try to catch his nadir.

Kim,

Thank you for looking at SS. I have been going up more and more. It seems like i was getting the same response on 1.0(fat) as i have on the 1.7u. Just don't understand why he keeps needing more and more. Nothing else is changing on him. His weight is stable @ 17lbs and only 10oz of food a day. So don't know why he responding so well to a lower dose and then not. Maybe i have been in that vicious cycle afterall. That would make sense. If that is the case what do i do? Start lower and hold? Hmmm....

THANKS!
 
Re: Copper- Bouncy..Bouncy.. NEED VOTE

Your cycles on 3/7 and 3/11 look really good on the 1.7 dose. You might have had some good cycles at night also....but, there are no tests to support that. (Did I ever tell you that I was probably the worse one EVER in PZI about testing mid cycle during the day or night?! Really! So don't take that as me being critical...just saying that we don't know!)

The 1.7 might be a better dose than you think. I think you are really close to his dose...the 1.7 and 1.6 has had some good cycles. Let it settle!

I know you want Copper to be in better numbers, but his numbers are not that bad. You are making progress and his numbers will improve.

Hang in there! Sorry about the goldfinch. I have a lot of birdfeeders in my yard....the goldfinch love the thistle feeder!
 
Re: Copper- Bouncy..Bouncy.. NEED VOTE

Thanks Kim for looking at SS. I know that the 1.7 seems to work, but then it doesn't. Why does it do that? Is it just the liver and pancrese fighting back. I get so confused whether to hold the dose for more than 3 or 4 cycles even if the numbers are flat and not going anywhere. I've heard that you can see how the dose will work by 3 or 4 cycles. But, ECID and copper seems to respond and settle very, very slowly on a dose. I'm thinking now when i look at his SS that i should of just stayed on the 1.2u and held. Just so hard to know which way to go most of the time and i don't want him to suffer anymore with the neuro. I think if he wasn't showing the neuro signs i would be more inclined to hold for a long time. Just don't want him in the renal threshold long and to damage his nerves any longer. I know i should probably be testing more in the middle of the night, but i'm just so tired by the nighttime and going all day with kids and the schedule my daughter is on for her theatre shows at nighttime. I'm just at the point of exhaustion by midnight. I'm lucky if i get 6hrs a night of sleep. Ok, now i feel like i'm whinning. Sorry.....

Thanks for looking and giving some input. This really helps!!
 
Re: Copper- Bouncy..Bouncy.. NEED VOTE

Lori
I would either hold, or lower. It looks like when Copper drops to blues, he bounces. You go from yellow preshots to blues, then he throws you a pink next PS. If you hold the dose, I would hope he'd get used to the blues and quit bouncing. But if you up the dose, he'll go lower mid-cycle and bounce worse, IMO.
If you lower, he might quit bouncing, but I don't know if that will help bring down all his preshots. You're in a difficult place right now, so I suppose the best advice is to hold and try to be patient. Easy for me to say, not so easy for you to do, I know.

Oh, birds are low carb, so eating an unfortunate finch won't raise his numbers. Just about any wild animal he eats is going to be low carb. Usually the only carbs he'd get would be from undigested carbs in their stomach or intestines. Sounds sort of gross, but it's what a wild cat would normally eat. Mice for instance, are zero carbs except for undigested food.
Gold finches are beautiful birds though. It sounds encouraging that Copper managed to catch a bird. We don't have goldfinches here, but if Mullet ever caught a painted bunting, I wouldn't be too happy with him!

Carl
 
Re: Copper- Bouncy..Bouncy.. NEED VOTE

Carl, thanks for the advice. I lowered tonight so i could get some rest. His +3.5 @272. So going to bed. It makes sense what you are saying. I think i will hold at the 1.7u tomorrow and just see how he goes.

Oh, i love the painted buntings. We only have those here in the summer months. They are not easy to find as much anymore. Strange the bluebirds have really increased in population and stayed all winter this year. Guess they knew it would be a mild winter afterall. We should watch the birds more often. Seems nature knows more than the weathermen most of the time. Encouraging that the goldfinches are back from migrating. So guess spring is around the corner.
 
Hi Lori
I agree with everyone to hold the 1.7
Its always good to get day and night numbers and he could go low at night and
then stay flat all day which seems to happen a lot
hope all is well with Copper :mrgreen:
 
Good morning all!

amps@316
Fed 1.5oz(raw and ff)
Shot 1.7u

Will hold on the 1.7u and see where he goes. Will try to get a nadir time in middle of night sometime and see where he is going.

THANKS all for the input and thoughts!

Hope everyone has a wonderful spring day and lots of good cycles!!!!
 
Turning out to be a good day of yellow's. I'll take it. He has been outside enjoying this beautiful spring day! He caught a mole today at +4 feeding time so let him eat it. He ate almost all of it except for the head, tail and butt. Guess he is being picky lately.(Ha, ha). Curious to see his pmps reading.

Recap: 3/13
amps@ 318
Fed 1.5oz (raw and ff)
shot 1.7u
+4 255 (ate most of a mole)
+6 204
+8 203
 
pmps@284
Fed 1.5oz(raw and ff)
Shot 1.6u
+4 293

Glad to see his pmps a little lower. Maybe he is finally settling in the dose.

Opps! Spoke too soon. Back to high flats again. Oh well....goodnight
 
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